New bass policy, new regulations..

danbrosnan

Want to put this poll out there...

The new bass policy has been made public this week and as usual an attack on anglers, only one bass per 24 hours, size limit increased to 50cm and bass protection zones...

Want to know if people agree with these vast changes in our regulations or not....

mattcullen

I don’t really know enough about our bass stocks to know how vulnerable they are to angling pressure. I’m hoping we learn more from the tagging project in Cork. There does seem to be a theory that they are very loyal to the same areas and return to them each season. I don’t catch a lot of bass but I do tend to find I catch them on quite specific marks at quite specific states of the tide. This leads me to be believe that they are creatures of habit and, being somewhat predictable in that respect, are particularly vulnerable to poaching and sustained angling pressure.

It’s hard to make sense of what’s happening in Ireland with bass catches declining in many areas. In England they have sustained commercial pressure which you would imagine would have to be greater than that of the illegal fishery here and yet I, perhaps wrongly, get the impression from catch reports on other forums that they catch greater numbers of bass if a little smaller on average than we do here.

It’s been suggested that our stock is different to theirs, is distinct to this country, and doesn’t have the same level of recruitment. If it is the case that we have a small, highly vulnerable, stock of bass I wouldn’t rule out the possibility that increased angling pressure on them over the last number of years has had an impact. From what I hear, netting is rife around the coast. I have no idea what kind of numbers of bass the netters could be pulling in so perhaps I’m way off the mark. Maybe what anglers catch and kill is a drop in the ocean in comparison???

In summary, we just don’t seem to have enough facts. I think we should be looking for greater enforcement of the law as a first priority. In areas where netting is rife I would like to see anglers trained to assist the IFI to gather evidence if it’s safe for them to do so. However, I have no problem with reducing the bag limit and increasing the minimum landing size. I think it’s probably good practice anyhow. One bass a day is surely more than enough for most of us? That said, I would be concerned that these changes are perceived to have ‘sorted out’ any issues that are there and delay, or prevent, any real action been taken on enforcement of the legislation already in place.

counterlock

I'm in favour of the new changes, like the previous poster was saying, one bass is enough for anyone in 24hours. What I would like to see is that if they are going to all this effort to introduce new laws, that they are policed properly.

stylie

Making it look like they are doing something to protect the Bass and attacking the angler. Last year two Irish brother were caught netting Bass, they had half a dozen on them, boat confiscated petty fine imposed, boat was a worthless punt anyway. All the time in a quay down the coast an English boat was pulled in with boxes of Bass nothing done, you think they caught those fish outside our waters ?
Fish around Cork harbor at night time or some of the beaches along side it and you will see boats working a few 100m off shore and it aint shell fish they are after. They should concentrate on the big issue and not some pr exercise.

danbrosnan

stylie wrote: »

Making it look like they are doing something to protect the Bass and attacking the angler. Last year two Irish brother were caught netting Bass, they had half a dozen on them, boat confiscated petty fine imposed, boat was a worthless punt anyway. All the time in a quay down the coast an English boat was pulled in with boxes of Bass nothing down, you think they caught those fish outside our waters ?
Fish around Cork harbor at night time or some of the beaches along side it and you will see boats working a few 100m off shore and it aint shell fish they are after. They should concentrate on the big issue and not some pr exercise.

I agree with you there, the regulations in place for anglers at the moment I believe are sufficient, they are not being policed at the moment and with the widespread illegal poaching, I think it's actually quite ignorant to try and bring new regulations...

Bio Mech

I would support any regulation that prevents unnecessary killing of an apex predator species.

Enforcement is a different issue but, in theory , I agree with this. It makes ecological sense.

danbrosnan

Bio Mech wrote: »

I would support any regulation that prevents unnecessary killing of an apex predator species.

Enforcement is a different issue but, in theory , I agree with this. It makes ecological sense.

That's a very fair and honest post, fair play...

KAI.Fundraiser

danbrosnan wrote: »

Want to put this poll out there...

The new bass policy has been made public this week and as usual an attack on anglers, only one bass per 24 hours, size limit increased to 50cm and bass protection zones...

Want to know if people agree with these vast changes in our regulations or not....

Attack on anglers lmao.... If you believe this is an attack on anglers you should be banned from fishing... I live in Dublin and spent 3 years trying to target them on the Dublin coast, Iv got 2 in them 3 year....

They need as much protection as they can get, I would even support an out right catch and release policy on Bass.

danbrosnan

KAI.Fundraiser wrote: »

Attack on anglers lmao.... If you believe this is an attack on anglers you should be banned from fishing... I live in Dublin and spent 3 years trying to target them on the Dublin coast, Iv got 2 in them 3 year....

They need as much protection as they can get, I would even support an out right catch and release policy on Bass.

I should be banned from fishing that's a first, look I made the post to see the overall mindset....

I gave all the options available for people to contribute in the poll...

Down here in kerry the beaches are at times full of bass, seriously I think on the east coast there is a serious problem with the environment, pollution number one and poaching... It's obvious there is bigger problems in the Irish Sea then obviously the Atlantic...

Over fishing is huge also in the Irish Sea, English boats, European boats all these problems are very serious for the bass in your locality's..

There is no need to attack me because believe me I have a good reason to voice my opinion...

It's actually insane to repeat the same activity over and over and over again...

It's insane to recommend a change when in the first place the laws we already have care not being adhered to...

I truly believe the IFI are at fault for the lack of bass on the east coast, not the anglers, it is not possible for anglers to cause a collapse in a fish stocks...

You need to look at the overall scheme of things, we are talking about oceans and seas, a rod and line is like a grain of sand in that, people are going to go mental with me saying that, a trawler with miles of net is the problem, thousands of illegal nets tied along every inch of our coast is the problem, pollution is the problem...

It's just my opinion that instead of drastic measures being taking on anglers why not do yer jobs properly in the first place... That's all.... Don't blame me for my opinion, blame the people who's job it is to protect our bass...

flounder

I agree 1 is enough to take home. But as already stated who will enforce it. I have never seen any fisheries officer on any beach. While proper anglers are putting the fish back most will take as many as they catch.
That's where the problem starts

mattcullen

KAI.Fundraiser wrote: »

Attack on anglers lmao.... If you believe this is an attack on anglers you should be banned from fishing... I live in Dublin and spent 3 years trying to target them on the Dublin coast, Iv got 2 in them 3 year....

They need as much protection as they can get, I would even support an out right catch and release policy on Bass.

Worth keeping a diary of when you catch and what worked. Once you get the first few on a mark, you've got a good chance of getting them again in similar conditions. Then you can move on and try a new mark, all states of the tide, different baits and lures etc and so on. You'll soon build up some knowledge on a few spots and what works where...can feel a bit tiresome at times when you keep blanking but it makes it all the more worthwhile when it comes together!

On the subject of poaching, has anyone got any idea how much these lads are netting? Probably a bit of a 'how long is a piece of string ?' question but i would personally like to know how the impact from angling compares. With other species that tend to be further offshore or shoal constantly I'd agree that anglers make very little difference. With bass in Ireland, whilst I'd like to think that it is also the case with them, I'm not so sure. I've heard experienced boat anglers say they pretty much always catch them close to shore which puts them within reach of anglers a lot of the time. Combined with their tendency to frequent relatively specific areas at particular seasons/states of tide, I think they are a little vulnerable. Certainly seems that way when you see word get out on a mark and then you see it getting hammered.

Don't get me wrong I love fishing for them and I do keep some fish to eat myself. I'm in no way hardline on C&R and I think we do need to tackle the poaching first and foremost but I also welcome the new measures for anglers.

One other thing I think is worth mentioning is that the scarcity of other edible fish of a decent size (on the east coast anyhow) is a big factor in the popularity of bass. If our sea fishery was in a healthier state in general, I think it would take some of the pressure of Bass. In that sense I think it's in sea anglers interest to campaign for protection of all sea fish and not just bass

KAI.Fundraiser

When it comes to bass it is possable for anglers to do damage to the population, they are like salmon, they spawn in the same place every year... And they come inshore to spawn. They take 5 years before they are able to spawn... It takes about 15 years to get to about 10lbs.. Thats why they are so rare now.

And I did not attack you, I reacted to your comment that its the angler that's at a loss here. Any sort of conservation measures is good in my eyes, once they are enforced. Remember in the 80s most of the bass were nearly wiped out in Ireland.

And as for "Down here in Kerry the beaches are at times full of bass" you must be one lucky man because I know some very well known Guides down there and they are worried about the stocks. Wexford was once the mecca of bass, Now you really have to work at it to get one.

danbrosnan

I'm not lying as far as I am concerned it's been an excellent year for sea bass for me anyway...

So we the anglers are to blame so for the declining stocks... It's easy to blame anglers it's harder to go out and actually do something about the problem...

I know exactly the life cycle of the bass as I done a project on them in collage, I was studying environmental science and if you research it the tonnage of wild sea bass coming out of our coastal oceans is absolutely frightening..

Also can you reference where you got the information that sea bass are the same as salmon because to me that's absolute nonsense...

KAI.Fundraiser

Dude why is everything you write so defensive..

Im talking about their migration being like salmon, they leave and come back every year..

I never said anglers are to blame, society is to blame, the sensationalism of bass in restaurant and tv is to blame, the poachers, trawlers and anglers are to blame. The years of people not caring about the stocks is to blame.

Also im not lying when I say your the only person that I have heard of that does not think there is a decline over the last years in bass stocks and for you to sit here and say that anglers are being attacked is a very closed minded. You sound like a fishing guide, someone who makes money from the fish being caught.

danbrosnan

KAI.Fundraiser wrote: »

Dude why is everything you write so defensive..

Im talking about their migration being like salmon, they leave and come back every year..

I never said anglers are to blame, society is to blame, the sensationalism of bass in restaurant and tv is to blame, the poachers, trawlers and anglers are to blame. The years of people not caring about the stocks is to blame.

Also im not lying when I say your the only person that I have heard of that does not think there is a decline over the last years in bass stocks and for you to sit here and say that anglers are being attacked is a very closed minded. You sound like a fishing guide, someone who makes money from the fish being caught.

I have guided a few times but 99% of times when asked I don't because I not qualified and I don't insurance etc...

Sorry if I sound defensive but I just don't agree with what your saying...

I do not believe there's a decline in bass stocks at least not in my area..

I was just in a local fishing tackle today and I had this conversation with three anglers and we all agreed that we catching bass this year...

I admit that I live in the best place in Europe for sea bass, I am literally two mins from Banna strand and I could be in five of the best surf beaches in Ireland in twenty mins..

What I do know is this, bass come and go, for example inch beach in April two years ago, over 70 bass all c&r in four hours between 14 anglers, the next day 0 ... Not a bite....

Last week in two short sessions, maybe an hour long four bass and lost two....

This year on a couple of sessions had 6 and the best day 8 in a session...

I am not trying to fight with you but can you not see my point in why the first thing that happens when the debate comes up that stocks are declining anglers get the chop!

Why don't they try and stop tangle nets being used along the surf beaches or stop illegal netting, why is it that anglers are always the ones to suffer...

And please understand I don't mind putting back fish I always do but I don't agree in the mentality behind certain decisions... Is it ok to not agree?

And also its not proven that bass spawn in the area they were born, that has never been researched by scientists, the simple reality Is we know f*ck all about our sea bass because no investment has gone into researching them... That's 100 %, we don't even know do they travel to deep water or not...

KAI.Fundraiser

As for research, cork harbor have been doing it for 2 years now and they can tell you that they do return. They tagged and released fish last year and believe it or not, they left the harbor, but then returned this year!

Also, just because you area is producing bass does not mean there is healthy bass stocks. Travel outside your bubble and see the reality of it.

I agree with allot of what your saying but for a bass angler to say these new policys are an attack on the angler is just funny.

danbrosnan

KAI.Fundraiser wrote: »

As for research, cork harbor have been doing it for 2 years now and they can tell you that they do return. They tagged and released fish last year and believe it or not, they left the harbor, but then returned this year!

Also, just because you area is producing bass does not mean there is healthy bass stocks. Travel outside your bubble and see the reality of it.

I agree with allot of what your saying but for a bass angler to say these new policys are an attack on the angler is just funny.

I do travel outside my bubble... Lol..

I cannot judge on places I don't fish regularly.. I travel everywhere fishing...

It's great work going on in cork harbor, there is talk of the same thing been applied in Tralee bay because of the ray that return, the problem is the price of the tagging equipment and data boy...

The problem is that bass might have traveled all over the south coast, how can they prove that the bass was spawning there... It's great tho the work Jim H is involved fair play to every body volunteering there...

Anyway we will beg to differ, I don't agree with the vast majority but that's ok with me...

Tight lines...

Lisciasty

20 years ago any anglers can take any number of fish and there was not any issiu now the law is more restricted but no improvement. IFI should look after pollution, pouchers, large fishing corporations and many many other issues but NOT anglers even that one who is taking 2 sea basses in 24h. That is my opinion.

counterlock

Lisciasty wrote: »

20 years ago any anglers can take any number of fish and there was not any issiu now the law is more restricted but no improvement. IFI should look after pollution, pouchers, large fishing corporations and many many other issues but NOT anglers even that one who is taking 2 sea basses in 24h. That is my opinion.

People take the piss as it is, never mind letting them take home as much as they want.

danbrosnan

counterlock wrote: »

People take the piss as it is, never mind letting them take home as much as they want.

And are these proposed new laws gonna stop people taking the piss?

KAI.Fundraiser

danbrosnan wrote: »

And are these proposed new laws gonna stop people taking the piss?

No one is saying they are going to stop the piss takers, but if the IFI actually enforce it, then its nothing but good.

danbrosnan

KAI.Fundraiser wrote: »

No one is saying they are going to stop the piss takers, but if the IFI actually enforce it, then its nothing but good.

This is my point, and please don't think I'm being negative... I am after having a Great day and I want to get on with you Lol..

How in the name of god are they gonna police the new regulations if they don't police the ones they have now...

KAI.Fundraiser

danbrosnan wrote: »

This is my point, and please don't think I'm being negative... I am after having a Great day and I want to get on with you Lol..

How in the name of god are they gonna police the new regulations if they don't police the ones they have now...

Thats my point all along... Im for the new changes but only if they are policed..

And I geet along with everyone lol. Im a lovable kinda guy!! lol

sheesh

I am undecided in the poll but vaguely positive towards the new rules at least someone is paying attention.

The real problem is that foreign fishing boats can catch bass and just go off with them legally while irish boats cannot. its a bit ridiculous.
the 1 fish per 24 hours is a bit like the salmon tag they are only (you can only get 1 at a time and then send off for your next tag). it punishes the law abiding angler. whereas if you left it at 2 at least the guy that is fishing once a month could legally get a good dinner or 2 for his effort.

I'm positive there is a mint of money to be made in tourism if we got good head of bass back.

honestly I probably won't affect me as I don't thik I ever have caught more than one bass in a session .

Like everyone is saying, it enforcement that is required.

I wonder if this 1 fish rule stops people going fishing at bass marks will it lead to less reports of illegal netting. As we all know the only way to protect the stock is if we report illegal activities ourselves.

mattcullen

sheesh wrote: »

The real problem is that foreign fishing boats can catch bass and just go off with them legally while irish boats cannot. its a bit ridiculous.

.

My understanding is that all the reports of bass getting caught further offshore (outside the 12 mile limit) are from the commercial fishing industry? It suits them to push this as being the reality because it suits their agenda to be able to land bass here and it gets them public sympathy.

I can't put my finger on it now but I'm pretty sure I've seen scientific surveys referred to which show that there the Irish bass stock is almost exclusively inshore. In short there doesn't appear to be any evidence of this offshore bass fishery and if the commercials ever get their way (which we all have a responsibility to make sure never happens) it would be very easy for them to land bass they've netted inshore and pass it off as from outside the 12 mile limit.

The FIF are well organised and are very polished in their PR on this stuff.

We're lucky enough to have the very dedicated John Quinlan http://www.irishbass.org/ fighting the good fight for our bass. Check out his website and also his posts on similar threads to this on the SAI website. Very informative: http://www.sea-angling-ireland.org/bulletin%20board/viewtopic.php?f=9&t=25207&start=320&st=0&sk=t&sd=a

danbrosnan

mattcullen wrote: »

My understanding is that all the reports of bass getting caught further offshore (outside the 12 mile limit) are from the commercial fishing industry? It suits them to push this as being the reality because it suits their agenda to be able to land bass here and it gets them public sympathy.

I can't put my finger on it now but I'm pretty sure I've seen scientific surveys referred to which show that there the Irish bass stock is almost exclusively inshore. In short there doesn't appear to be any evidence of this offshore bass fishery and if the commercials ever get their way (which we all have a responsibility to make sure never happens) it would be very easy for them to land bass they've netted inshore and pass it off as from outside the 12 mile limit.

The FIF are well organised and are very polished in their PR on this stuff.

We're lucky enough to have the very dedicated John Quinlan http://www.irishbass.org/ fighting the good fight for our bass. Check out his website and also his posts on similar threads to this on the SAI website. Very informative: http://www.sea-angling-ireland.org/bulletin%20board/viewtopic.php?f=9&t=25207&start=320&st=0&sk=t&sd=a

Can you please try and find that research for me? I have searched the internet, books and collage documents to get good research on sea bass. The bass just isn't that well documented but I would love to see that bit of knowledge...

I know from having conversations with trawler men that it is common to haul shoals of bass both inshore and offshore. This has always intrigued me and goes in some way to say that

do go offshore. The majority of our shore species do go offshore because of natural instinct and feeding patterns etc...

mattcullen

Hi Dan,

Have a look at the post from John Quinlan here http://www.sea-angling-ireland.org/bulletin%20board/viewtopic.php?f=12&t=40381&start=80

Relates to marine Institute and also foreign trawlers. Don't know if the surveys etc are online but maybe he could point you in the right direction...

danbrosnan

mattcullen wrote: »

Hi Dan,

Have a look at the post from John Quinlan here http://www.sea-angling-ireland.org/bulletin%20board/viewtopic.php?f=12&t=40381&start=80

Relates to marine Institute and also foreign trawlers. Don't know if the surveys etc are online but maybe he could point you in the right direction...

Thanks matt you a star! Tight lines..

Zzippy

mattcullen wrote: »

My understanding is that all the reports of bass getting caught further offshore (outside the 12 mile limit) are from the commercial fishing industry? It suits them to push this as being the reality because it suits their agenda to be able to land bass here and it gets them public sympathy.

I can't put my finger on it now but I'm pretty sure I've seen scientific surveys referred to which show that there the Irish bass stock is almost exclusively inshore. In short there doesn't appear to be any evidence of this offshore bass fishery and if the commercials ever get their way (which we all have a responsibility to make sure never happens) it would be very easy for them to land bass they've netted inshore and pass it off as from outside the 12 mile limit.

The FIF are well organised and are very polished in their PR on this stuff.

We're lucky enough to have the very dedicated John Quinlan http://www.irishbass.org/ fighting the good fight for our bass. Check out his website and also his posts on similar threads to this on the SAI website. Very informative: http://www.sea-angling-ireland.org/bulletin%20board/viewtopic.php?f=9&t=25207&start=320&st=0&sk=t&sd=a

Excellent post, hit the nail on the head. The Marine Institute are very much pro-commercial fishing, the head scientist even wrote a paper justifying re-opening the fishery on very flimsy grounds. Anglers need to unite to fight the proposal to re-open the fishery, but instead we have lads whinging that they won't be allowed to kill two bass a day. Bass stocks are so fragile, slow-growing, long-lived fish, and so susceptible to overfishing, that I have zero patience for any of these so-called anglers. If you think it's your right to kill two of these fish a day, fish that are so important to the breeding stock, you're an absolute muppet. That is my honest opinion.

I heartily welcome the new policy, especially the increased size limit. IFI has f*ck all resources anymore to police everywhere, but it's easy to sit behind a keyboard and criticise. it's up to anglers to start not just talking conservation, but acting it too - name and shame other anglers you see breaking the law, report offences when you see them, talk conservation at every opportunity, confront people you see taking undersize bass or more than the quota. Anglers whinging about stricter limits need to wise up - it's talk like that that commercial fishermen love to quote - and it justifies their complaint that they are unfairly treated.

A 10lbs bass can be 25 years old, it is far too valuable to be caught only once and killed for a supper.

danbrosnan

Zzippy wrote: »

Excellent post, hit the nail on the head. The Marine Institute are very much pro-commercial fishing, the head scientist even wrote a paper justifying re-opening the fishery on very flimsy grounds. Anglers need to unite to fight the proposal to re-open the fishery, but instead we have lads whinging that they won't be allowed to kill two bass a day. Bass stocks are so fragile, slow-growing, long-lived fish, and so susceptible to overfishing, that I have zero patience for any of these so-called anglers. If you think it's your right to kill two of these fish a day, fish that are so important to the breeding stock, you're an absolute muppet. That is my honest opinion.

I heartily welcome the new policy, especially the increased size limit. IFI has f*ck all resources anymore to police everywhere, but it's easy to sit behind a keyboard and criticise. it's up to anglers to start not just talking conservation, but acting it too - name and shame other anglers you see breaking the law, report offences when you see them, talk conservation at every opportunity, confront people you see taking undersize bass or more than the quota. Anglers whinging about stricter limits need to wise up - it's talk like that that commercial fishermen love to quote - and it justifies their complaint that they are unfairly treated.

A 10lbs bass can be 25 years old, it is far too valuable to be caught only once and killed for a supper.

Your whole opinion is pointless, the IFI cannot police the regulations they already have so how are they gonna police new ones...

Also I am gonna take your post personally because it was obviously pointed at me and if you cannot admit that it means u have no backbone...

So come on zippy tell us how you have contributed to the protection and safeguard of bass...

KAI.Fundraiser

danbrosnan wrote: »

Your whole opinion is pointless, the IFI cannot police the regulations they already have so how are they gonna police new ones...

Also I am gonna take your post personally because it was obviously pointed at me and if you cannot admit that it means u have no backbone...

So come on zippy tell us how you have contributed to the protection and safeguard of bass...

Dude you really need to take a step back. You are way to defensive to debate anything because all you do is take offence from everything!

The new policy's will work with the 1000s of bass anglers out there that are happy with them and will stick with them. The ones that dont need to be policed....

So in my eyes if it means that 1000s of anglers are gona take 1 fish instead of 2, its working.