New bass policy, new regulations..

Zzippy

danbrosnan wrote: »

Want to put this poll out there...

The new bass policy has been made public this week and as usual an attack on anglers, only one bass per 24 hours, size limit increased to 50cm and bass protection zones...

Want to know if people agree with these vast changes in our regulations or not....

danbrosnan wrote: »

I truly believe the IFI are at fault for the lack of bass on the east coast, not the anglers, it is not possible for anglers to cause a collapse in a fish stocks...

danbrosnan wrote: »

Your whole opinion is pointless, the IFI cannot police the regulations they already have so how are they gonna police new ones...

Also I am gonna take your post personally because it was obviously pointed at me and if you cannot admit that it means u have no backbone...

So come on zippy tell us how you have contributed to the protection and safeguard of bass...

Take it personally if you want, your very first post was whinging about not being allowed to take more than one bass per day so you are definitely one of the people I'm talking about. No problem saying that, and I don't need your approval of my backbone :rolleyes:

Bass are in trouble, no matter how much you protest that your local beaches are full of them. Well for you! Anglers killing fish do have an impact on stocks - every bass killed is one less that can spawn next year. The poll clearly shows that the majority here are in favour of more restrictive angling regulations for bass, so the policy group probably got it right. Bass anglers were represented on the policy group. So whinging about only one fish a day puts you in the minority. It's a minority I have no respect for - while the rest are happy to do their bit to help conserve bass stocks, you and that minority are not.

Yes IFI can't enforce the regulations all the time, as I've explained already they don't have the resources. You may have heard of this recession thing, and how there hasn't been any recruitment since 2008. That doesn't mean we should leave overly generous regulations in place at a time when there is serious concern for bass stocks. That's like saying we should leave the drink driving limit at 100mg because we haven't enough gardai to enforce the existing law.



As for what I've done, well every bass I've ever caught has gone back alive, hopefully to spawn again. That's a lot more than you can say. Killing two large bass, and posting photos of it online, says it all really about your attitude to bass conservation.

ytpe2r5bxkn0c1

Anything that reduces the number of Bass taken is to be applauded. Of course we can cry about enforcement but such is the case with all laws, rules and regulations in every walk of life in this country. Having fished for over 60 years I gave seen many changes in the rules and I have to say that they were all to the good and have been accepted by the vast majority of anglers. Most will abide by the regulations without somebody standing over their shoulder making them do so. The poachers will poach regardless of size or bag limits, as will the unscrupulous angler.
To even suggest that this is an "attack" on anglers is a step too far. It is bringing some opportunity to further protect stocks and give more anglers a taste of the joy in catching a Bass. A few decades ago I thought nothing of catching bass. They seemed plentiful. Then they became rare but are now showning signs of recovery and anything that aids this recovery is to be applauded.

Snowc

Dan maybe you should reduce the options in the poll to one

danbrosnan

Zippy I ain't hiding, you know who I am and what I stand for...

I stand for angling and hunting and before we all know it, we won't be able to keep a fish or a bird...

There is a bigger situation here lads, I don't know if ye can see it but I can...

Trawlers and poachers will gladly take fish while the angler before long won't be able to keep any...

There was a trawler last week stranded on formoyle strand after beaching itself because it had tangle nets set 100 metres from the beach..

The video is on youtube ye all can see it... The angler who took the video and made it public, told me the day before when I met him digging lugs he had seen nets all over the place...

That trawler has been fishing off the beach all summer...

Anglers came down from Dublin fishing... The whole week was a disaster, they sent me pictures of nets, I made them public, and there was a fishery officer on the phone pleading with me to take them down...

April this year nets tied across formoyle strand 3 o clock in the day, rang the IFI they came out and made the seizures...

I sent gps numbers of over twenty nets tied every day throughout the summer, to local officers, the majority of these nets are still tied today...

There has been numerous anglers this year that need to be applaud, they have made many poaching activities public through our page, there the people I like to deal with, not people on here hiding behind fake names...

I am sorry to people if they take offence, but in taught the idea of the IFI was to stop the poachers and leave to actual anglers fish and if they want keep some..

That's angling lads, this idea of complete c&r is completely alien to me, I am sorry that I like to eat fish but it's healthier then the **** from supermarkets, what do people want us to do buy farmed sea bass from Egypt?

As far catching two sea bass per day that actually never ever happens... Who's out every day of the week? I don't see it and you know what if I did I would confront angler in two secs no prob would ye? I doubt it...

I will stand for what I believe in and yes this policy is good in a sense but it is an attack on anglers because why isn't there a policy set up to sort out local poaching which is widespread? Why aren't fines for illegal poaching increased ten fold? Why isn't jail brought in for illegal activities during the bass spawning season?

No tell the anglers what to do and when they catch a poacher give him a slap on the wrist and he off again doing the same thing two nights later...

Tight lines... I going fishing...

ytpe2r5bxkn0c1

Dan you are confusing two very different things. You opened the thread on the new Bass regulations and we expressed our opinions on it. The poaching and illegal fishing is another thing altogether and to say we should not bring improved regulations in to play because of illegal fishing is missing the point.
You also seem to think that you are the only angler who would ever, or has ever, stood up to poachers or reported them. I can assure you you are mistaken - but again that is not what we were commenting on.

The new regulations are to be applauded. The illegal fishing, and the enforcement of the law in that regard, is another issue and I think we are all agreed on how that particular discussion would progress on an angling forum.

Bio Mech

Jennifer Modern Raffle wrote: »

Dan you are confusing two very different things. You opened the thread on the new Bass regulations and we expressed our opinions on it. The poaching and illegal fishing is another thing altogether and to say we should not bring improved regulations in to play because of illegal fishing is missing the point.
You also seem to think that you are the only angler who would ever, or has ever, stood up to poachers or reported them. I can assure you you are mistaken - but again that is not what we were commenting on.

The new regulations are to be applauded. The illegal fishing, and the enforcement of the law in that regard, is another issue and I think we are all agreed on how that particular discussion would progress on an angling forum.

I would have to agree Dan there are two separate issues here. There are always people who break laws but it doesn't mean we shouldn't have any. I would agree that the penalties are two soft but that's an issue with our justice system in many ways.

Greater ecological responsibility should begin with the angler and reducing the keeping of a predator like bass is a good step. I would be against keeping bass myself for conservation reasons and I would have the same opinions for pike, salmon and Ferox. But I would have no issue with gathering reasonable amounts of sandeels or macks or roach for bait because there is no population impact. There is no ban on keeping macks, Pollock, plaice so I don't see the attack on anglers argument. Bass are proven to be vulnerable. I would like to see the same laws for tope, blues, spurs, hounds etc also.

KAI.Fundraiser

Bio Mech wrote: »

I would have to agree Dan there are two separate issues here. There are always people who break laws but it doesn't mean we shouldn't have any. I would agree that the penalties are two soft but that's an issue with our justice system in many ways.

Greater ecological responsibility should begin with the angler and reducing the keeping of a predator like bass is a good step. I would be against keeping bass myself for conservation reasons and I would have the same opinions for pike, salmon and Ferox. But I would have no issue with gathering reasonable amounts of sandeels or macks or roach for bait because there is no population impact. There is no ban on keeping macks, Pollock, plaice so I don't see the attack on anglers argument. Bass are proven to be vulnerable. I would like to see the same laws for tope, blues, spurs, hounds etc also.

Well said...

The problem is allot of anglers see bass as the best eating and fighting fish. Give me a pollack on a spinning rod any day and Il have the best days fishing with a nice supper. I would rather catch mullet for the fight than a bass.

danbrosnan

Lads i do agree with ye on many points and i am delighted we can all get into a safe, well mannered debate!!! LOL

Can ye not see where yer opinion on the matter does damage to the overall stock???

So lets say Bio Mechs opinion comes to fruition!!! Then the majority of fish is C&R, that then puts pressure on the fish stocks because of over fishing at sea...

Let me ask ye this would ye prefer to see people eating farmed bass from Egypt or Greece?? Or eating wild bass??

The biggest global problem at this very moment is not bass anglers here in Ireland but it is over fishing of bait fish in the north atlantic...

There is thousands of trawlers killing tonnes apon tonnes of sprats, krill, sand eels etc in the north atlantic which means the whole eco system is literally on a knife edge...

I have never bought a fish from a fish mongers and i never will...

Salmon are coming back to our river half starving all because the bass which are being farmed in Egypt need to be fed from the fish mill being produced from the tonnes of bait being caught out at sea...

There is a major problem here lads and trust me i take on board everything everyone says...

We are not the problem, anglers are generally good people, anglers that fish should be allowed to keep some of there catch and the powers that be should be protecting every inch of water here in Ireland..

The farming of fish is an absolutely massive business, billions upon billions its worth, the overfishing of bait fish to feed these farmed fish is the biggest problem the marine eco systems face...

Its the same with farming we import thousands of tonnes of fruit and vegetables into Ireland when we could be growing them here...

Everybody here is against me, thats fine with me, i can handle it, i want to eat wild Irish fish, not farmed stuff which by being imported is polluting the atmosphere and putting money into the fish farming businesses..

Every bass i catch i completely respect, and i respect people and anglers too, if its put upon me to put back fish under 50cm i will, there was a time i wouldn't be i have grown up, the people in power have a responsibility to actually enforce the laws that are currently in place...

Can anybody here tell me an exact number of anglers caught last year fishing with rod and line in Ireland with undersize bass??

I would love a number on that?? If there was an outrageous number of people caught and prosecuted then yes lets so something about that...

How can the IFI actually know who is catching what?? Are the basing there research on hearsay??

Lads seriously please don't follow the crowd, make up yer own minds and look beyond biased points of view, bass are a beautiful fish and they will remain abundant once the right decisions are made, i don't believe this is right direction because its missing the point absolutely...

ytpe2r5bxkn0c1

Dan, you raised a lot of points there that have nothing to do with anything I personally said on the topic of this particular thread but all I will say is that I am following no crowd and my beliefs are based on over 65 years of fishing for all species.

Bio Mech

Lots of thoughts spewing out there so hmmm where to start. This will take a while

danbrosnan wrote: »

Can ye not see where yer opinion on the matter does damage to the overall stock???

Simply, it doesn't. You just cant seem to see separate issues as separate. In isolation keeping one bass is better for stocks than keeping two. Its as simple as that. Complicating factors and the world at large wont change that but you seem to have convinced yourself that your own opinion in correct and are using some pretty odd logic to justify it.

danbrosnan wrote: »

So lets say Bio Mechs opinion comes to fruition!!! Then the majority of fish is C&R, that then puts pressure on the fish stocks because of over fishing at sea...

Separate issues Dan. Recreational C&R has no influence on stocks beyond the local ecosystem. Over fishing of bait fish at sea is a separate fisheries and oceanic issue.

danbrosnan wrote: »

Let me ask ye this would ye prefer to see people eating farmed bass from Egypt or Greece?? Or eating wild bass??

Since you ask I don't eat bass at all as there is no sustainable bass fishery IMO. Local stocks are too vulnerable and farmed fish are environmentally sub optimal not even mentioning PCBs etc.

danbrosnan wrote: »

The biggest global problem at this very moment is not bass anglers here in Ireland but it is over fishing of bait fish in the north atlantic...

There is thousands of trawlers killing tonnes apon tonnes of sprats, krill, sand eels etc in the north atlantic which means the whole eco system is literally on a knife edge...

Separate issues Dan. There are wider ecological risks alright but killing fish locally only compounds their risk. Local species reservoirs are very important

danbrosnan wrote: »

Salmon are coming back to our river half starving all because the bass which are being farmed in Egypt need to be fed from the fish mill being produced from the tonnes of bait being caught out at sea...

There is a major problem here lads and trust me i take on board everything everyone says...

That's quite a jump in logic. I assume you have some data on metabolic health of Irish Salmon. Do you really think Egyptian bass farming is causing all this?

danbrosnan wrote: »

The farming of fish is an absolutely massive business, billions upon billions its worth, the overfishing of bait fish to feed these farmed fish is the biggest problem the marine eco systems face...

Its the same with farming we import thousands of tonnes of fruit and vegetables into Ireland when we could be growing them here...

Separate issues Dan. Global issues, the IFI cant control these.

danbrosnan wrote: »

Everybody here is against me, thats fine with me, i can handle it, i want to eat wild Irish fish, not farmed stuff which by being imported is polluting the atmosphere and putting money into the fish farming businesses..

Your car pollutes the atmosphere, the electricity you use is generated by methods that pollute the atmosphere, the factories your reels are made in pollute the atmosphere. You can eat wild fish but why does it have to be a vulnerable species. Eat fish from a sustainable fishery.

danbrosnan wrote: »

Can anybody here tell me an exact number of anglers caught last year fishing with rod and line in Ireland with undersize bass??

I would love a number on that?? If there was an outrageous number of people caught and prosecuted then yes lets so something about that...

How can the IFI actually know who is catching what?? Are the basing there research on hearsay??

Different issues. You seem to be against the new regs for a bunch of random reasons. Egyptian farming, air pollution, commercial fishing of bait fish, not enough IFI enforcement last year, level of prosecutions. I don't see any of them actually stacking up.

danbrosnan wrote: »

Lads seriously please don't follow the crowd, make up yer own minds and look beyond biased points of view,

One might suggest your own point of view is biased as you have a pro hunting and pro eating bass agenda which you openly state. Your point of view seems to be based on the fact that you want to eat bass and should be allowed do so because the Egyptians and the commercial boats are doing worse out in the wider world. Charity starts at home as they say.

I have been angling for 30 years, I have a degree in biology and a doctorate in ecology and population genetics. I have been a scientist (of sorts) pretty much all my life. I think I can be confident in my ability to assess a situation and make up my own mind. I couldn't care less what the majority think, or per se, what IFI think. In this case I just happen to have come to the same conclusion as they have. I differ with them, and other posters on here, on many issues. But not on this one.

ytpe2r5bxkn0c1

If I could thank that post 100 times bio mech it would still not do it justice. Just for the record I too have a doctorate in ecology, so snap! I worked in the field of Nature and conservation all my life and am still active in my retirement. Well said, again.

Any way, that's me finished on this thread as it has drifted into too many secondary topics.

Zzippy

danbrosnan wrote: »

Lads seriously please don't follow the crowd, make up yer own minds and look beyond biased points of view,

Dan, just because a vast majority of people don't agree with you doesn't mean they're following the crowd. And your own point of view is quite biased

danbrosnan

We all must come from different worlds anyway maybe ye don't understand where I am coming from but look everything I have said I believe in...

I will continue the fight to protect stocks from what I feel is the problem...

I believe in slow food and protecting the environment... Ye might not understand that overfishing is the problem not the rod and line..

Tight lines..

a148pro

Bio Mech wrote: »

I have been angling for 30 years, I have a degree in biology and a doctorate in ecology and population genetics. I have been a scientist (of sorts) pretty much all my life. I think I can be confident in my ability to assess a situation and make up my own mind. I couldn't care less what the majority think, or per se, what IFI think. In this case I just happen to have come to the same conclusion as they have. I differ with them, and other posters on here, on many issues. But not on this one.

Hi, sorry to interject, just wondering do you attribute the decline in bass stocks to localised anglers catching too much or to other factors?

One of the previous posters linked to this account of bass fishing in the 50s (http://www.irishbass.org/sound_bite.php?item=10) when clearly there were a lot more of them around. Clearly they were also profligate in catching them.

Do you think that is principally responsible for the decline in the stock or is it commercial fishing? I'm just wondering because the same website quotes a quarter of the European catch being from anglers (which is a huge amount).

I'm not asking these questions to make a point btw, I'm just interested, I agree with you in any event that even if the trawlers are doing the real damage that isn't to say we shouldn't limit anglers doing damage.

Also do you think it is possible to identify given local stocks that might be fished sustainably?

And finally what fish do you believe can be fished sustainably from the shore? Pollock and mackerel I assume but what else?

I should also add - why are they being poached in nets if its illegal to sell them here, are they being sold on the continent?

danbrosnan

Is there a come back? Lol

mattcullen

a148pro wrote: »

Hi, sorry to interject, just wondering do you attribute the decline in bass stocks to localised anglers catching too much or to other factors?

One of the previous posters linked to this account of bass fishing in the 50s (http://www.irishbass.org/sound_bite.php?item=10) when clearly there were a lot more of them around. Clearly they were also profligate in catching them.

Do you think that is principally responsible for the decline in the stock or is it commercial fishing? I'm just wondering because the same website quotes a quarter of the European catch being from anglers (which is a huge amount).

I'm not asking these questions to make a point btw, I'm just interested, I agree with you in any event that even if the trawlers are doing the real damage that isn't to say we shouldn't limit anglers doing damage.

Also do you think it is possible to identify given local stocks that might be fished sustainably?

And finally what fish do you believe can be fished sustainably from the shore? Pollock and mackerel I assume but what else?

I should also add - why are they being poached in nets if its illegal to sell them here, are they being sold on the continent?

Don't think anyone really knows the reasons why the stocks are low. Everyone has their own ideas as to whether it's mainly poaching, whether recreational fishing has much impact, how much is to do with environmental factors. I'm not sure how ICES worked out that figure for the recreational angler take. I don’t know how it would be possible to quantify that in any reasonably accurate way. For my own part, I do kill some bass to eat but I don’t go crazy on it cause I do feel that they may well be quite vulnerable to us anglers catching and killing them on a large scale.

Don’t feel that way about mackerel for example because the numbers that anglers take are clearly a drop in the ocean in comparison to the commercial take.

Essentially, we don’t have all the facts and so we all have to make up our minds based on what we do know and within the scope of the law.

danbrosnan

mattcullen wrote: »

Don't think anyone really knows the reasons why the stocks are low. Everyone has their own ideas as to whether it's mainly poaching, whether recreational fishing has much impact, how much is to do with environmental factors. I'm not sure how ICES worked out that figure for the recreational angler take. I don’t know how it would be possible to quantify that in any reasonably accurate way. For my own part, I do kill some bass to eat but I don’t go crazy on it cause I do feel that they may well be quite vulnerable to us anglers catching and killing them on a large scale.

Don’t feel that way about mackerel for example because the numbers that anglers take are clearly a drop in the ocean in comparison to the commercial take.

Essentially, we don’t have all the facts and so we all have to make up our minds based on what we do know and within the scope of the law.

Your gonna go insane here with me Lol...

You just made a statement there that sums up Ireland's past, future and present with regards to our marine environments...

They didn't know either when we joined the EU, that our seas were literarily worth billions...

Now the people in charge of the protection of sea bass in Ireland are the IFI...

Can somebody on here tell me figures of anglers caught in the last four years with bass undersize.. So we looking for a figure on anglers, not poachers that were prosecuted while rod and line fishing with either over the bag limits or undersize...

These figures could then be used to prove that recreational anglers are a contributing factor to the decline of sea bass, and by the way I personally don't see any decline...

Bio Mech

I am not going to spend any more time replying to this thread. Despite some well put questions above.

You can't teach an old dog new tricks and some people only see what they want to see. It's become an illogical and pointless debate unfortunately. Maybe ifi will have a few anglers arrested this year and then it will all suddenly make sense.

danbrosnan

Bio Mech wrote: »

I am not going to spend any more time replying to this thread. Despite some well put questions above.

You can't teach an old dog new tricks and some people only see what they want to see. It's become an illogical and pointless debate unfortunately. Maybe ifi will have a few anglers arrested this year and then it will all suddenly make sense.

Please bio,

Its obvious to me that you are most proberly an honest guy who I have come to respect through listening to your posts...

But can you please admit that the laws at the moment are not being implemented..

If you disagree with that then show me figures of five anglers prosecuted with undersize bass, I cant find one or think of one tbh..

danbrosnan

Heard on the beach today proposed close season may well be between January to July, not saying this is fact but was talked about today by anglers..

ytpe2r5bxkn0c1

Those guys obviously didn't read the IFI Bass Report August 2014, Dan. It's not that drastic.

The relevant section states -Review Bass Closed Season – currently 15 May – 15 June and identified as the bass spawning period in Ireland. Scientific literature indicates that the spawning period commences earlier. The revised policy recommendation is that mandatory catch and release would apply over the full extent of the potential spawning period rather than the current closed season window. The peak of spawning is over the April-May period and the review group recommend this revised window.


So closed season as is but a catch and release period from April until closed season proper begins.

danbrosnan

I know I did read the report it's only a conversation I heard, it cannot be true...

Bio Mech

danbrosnan wrote: »

Please bio,

Its obvious to me that you are most proberly an honest guy who I have come to respect through listening to your posts...

But can you please admit that the laws at the moment are not being implemented..

If you disagree with that then show me figures of five anglers prosecuted with undersize bass, I cant find one or think of one tbh..

Apologies I have been away for a while. I fully agree that fisheries laws in general are not being respected/implemented/enforced. I would say that covers the coarse bye laws, bass bye laws, trout bag limits on club waters etc etc.

It would also go for littering laws and speed limits but that doesn't mean we shouldn't have any.

Still different issues and all......

Last post for sure this time

sheesh

the one good thing about reducing the number of Bass you can have is they cannot go and reintroduce commercial targeting of bass. On the negative side if you can only get out fishing a couple of times a year you can only take one home with you.