Dublin v Donegal Sunday 31 August AI semifinal Mod Warning Posts #392 #541

Sunnyisland

With all the attention going on to the Mayo Kerry replay,you could be forgiven for forgetting there is a huge other semi final on Sunday with Dublin and Donegal battling it out.

With Dublins current form and results so far this year,in theory at least it would seem that they should go on and win this,but Donegal are certainly not to be underestimated and will actually be delighted to be going in as the underdog.

Hopefully it's a good game of football and on the day may the best team win :-)

Tombo2001

Dublin by at least 6 points.

BKWDR

Although i hope it isn't like the 2011 game I can see Dublin edging this game.

I would exercise caution in saying it would be a cricket score. It will be the test that Dublin need if (when) they go to an AI final...

Nidgeweasel

Dublin, the greatest side to ever play football to win by 40 points after they unleash the bench (tm) Who by themselves would probably win the all Ireland.

DoctaDee

Nidgeweasel wrote: »

Dublin, the greatest side to ever play football to win by 40 points after they unleash the bench (tm) Who by themselves would probably win the all Ireland.

So yer confident of a Donegal win so ? :P

Ralphdejones

It's going to be like shooting fish in a barrel

Sunnyisland

Nidgeweasel wrote: »

Dublin, the greatest side to ever play football to win by 40 points after they unleash the bench (tm) Who by themselves would probably win the all Ireland.

Nidgeweasel, I'm feeling good about Sunday boys.

At the very least I really think our lads are going to give us one hell of a performance. They may not win, but it won't be for want of trying and I believe they will put every single thing they have into this one given the opposition. If it is to be the end, it will be a fitting one.

We haven't been given a prayer, JMG will be delighted.


Just for those that don't read the Donegal thread :-)

Lapin

Dublin County Board should send out for some decent silver polish and cloths because they're gonna be busy tarting up the Sam Maguire for the next year or two.

Nidgeweasel

realies wrote: »

Nidgeweasel, I'm feeling good about Sunday boys.

At the very least I really think our lads are going to give us one hell of a performance. They may not win, but it won't be for want of trying and I believe they will put every single thing they have into this one given the opposition. If it is to be the end, it will be a fitting one.

We haven't been given a prayer, JMG will be delighted.


Just for those that don't read the Donegal thread :-)

Because my post on this thread was entirely genuine.

Dirty Dingus McGee

Its hard to see Dublin getting a score of much less than 20 points regardless of how defensive Donegal are and the way Donegal are playing this year I can't see them racking up that big a score.

Donegal need to move Michael Murphy into the full forward line.Although he does a decent job out the field his lack of pace will be exposed.If they played with McBrearty ,Murphy and McFadden in an orthodox full forward line and used the long ball more often Donegal might have a chance as Dublins full back line hasn't really been fully tested yet and they are all good ball winners and could create a few goals which they are going to need to get.

Donegal need to be more attacking in this match the overly defensive style is not going to be as effective as it is against other teams.The blanket defence was beaten by Dublin in 2011 when they started to run hard at Donegal and one thing Dublin are extremely good at these days is running hard.

Donegal need to improve alot to have any sort of a chance. I think they will up their game but I'd still fancy Dublin to win by 8 or 9 points.If Donegal continue their current form Dublin could give them the sort of hiding they have dished out to the rest of their opponents this summer.

Tombo2001

realies wrote: »

Nidgeweasel, I'm feeling good about Sunday boys.

At the very least I really think our lads are going to give us one hell of a performance. They may not win, but it won't be for want of trying and I believe they will put every single thing they have into this one given the opposition. If it is to be the end, it will be a fitting one.

We haven't been given a prayer, JMG will be delighted.


Just for those that don't read the Donegal thread :-)

Thats true of every team Dublin have played this year. Average winning margin has been 16 points.

Hammer Archer

I hope Donegal give them a game and think they may be the first team to stay within 10 points of Dublin, but I'd be very surprised if there isn't more than 6 points in it at the end. I'd expect the final to be similarly handy for Dublin.

Nidgeweasel

Tombo2001 wrote: »

Thats true of every team Dublin have played this year. Average winning margin has been 16 points.

There is a big difference between playing this Donegal side under McGuinness than playing Laois.

DoctaDee

Nidgeweasel wrote: »

There is a big difference between playing this Donegal side under McGuinness than playing Laois.

Laois were the closest to Dublin all year, only 11 points in it and gave them plenty to think about early on.

McGuinness' dogma of restricting the other team from scoring in a purely defensive formation will not suffice on Sunday. Under his current system this will be a damage limitation exercise. It would be nice to see an expansive game from Donegal

Redsoxfan

DoctaDee wrote: »

It would be nice to see an expansive game from Donegal

Why?

Nidgeweasel

DoctaDee wrote: »

Laois were the closest to Dublin all year, only 11 points in it and gave them plenty to think about early on.

McGuinness' dogma of restricting the other team from scoring in a purely defensive formation will not suffice on Sunday. Under his current system this will be a damage limitation exercise. It would be nice to see an expansive game from Donegal

That's why I used them as my example. They done quite well against Dublin and we're better.

There's an awful amount of guff being bandied about at the minute. There will be no annihilation on Sunday and I fully expect Donegal to equip themselves very we against this Dublin team.

Listening to some of the clowns around and in the papers we'd be as not turn up such is the hiding we are in for.

A nonsense. On the balance of probabilities Dublin are the more likely victors, it would be churlish to suggest otherwise. That being said, Donegal won't be a stroll in the park for the dubs and should be approached with caution.

Ralphdejones

Nidgeweasel wrote: »

That's why I used them as my example. They done quite well against Dublin and we're better.

There's an awful amount of guff being bandied about at the minute. There will be no annihilation on Sunday and I fully expect Donegal to equip themselves very we against this Dublin team.

Listening to some of the clowns around and in the papers we'd be as not turn up such is the hiding we are in for.

A nonsense. On the balance of probabilities Dublin are the more likely victors, it would be churlish to suggest otherwise. That being said, Donegal won't be a stroll in the park for the dubs and should be approached with caution.

Donegal have not met a decent team yet, and McFadden is not capable of scoring many points anymore, even when they get the ball to him, and they can't. Donegal rely on the blanket defence and three/four key players. The rest of their football is exceedingly mediocre. <snip>

downthemiddle

Ralphdejones wrote: »

Donegal have not met a decent team yet, and McFadden is not capable of scoring many points anymore, even when they get the ball to him, and they can't. Donegal rely on the blanket defence and three/four key players. The rest of their football is exceedingly mediocre. <snip>

I wonder will Donegal even bother turning up. There doesn't appear to be any point from what you say. I suppose it would be bad form to give a walkover in an All Ireland semi final and it would cost the GAA a fortune.

ArielAtom

Donegal are loving been written of by the media, they will come and perform. It will be a tight game. Dublin will hopefully prevail.

DoctaDee

Redsoxfan wrote: »

Why?

Because if they don't commit numbers forward they'll invite Dublin onto them, there's only so long that you can play a game chasing players down. I wouldn't discount a Donegal win, but the balance of probabilities with the respective playing styles of each team would suggest to me that they will struggle to put the scores up.

Nidgeweasel wrote: »

That's why I used them as my example. They done quite well against Dublin and we're better.

There's an awful amount of guff being bandied about at the minute. There will be no annihilation on Sunday and I fully expect Donegal to equip themselves very we against this Dublin team.

Listening to some of the clowns around and in the papers we'd be as not turn up such is the hiding we are in for.

A nonsense. On the balance of probabilities Dublin are the more likely victors, it would be churlish to suggest otherwise. That being said, Donegal won't be a stroll in the park for the dubs and should be approached with caution.

Saying you're better than Laois is not quite understanding the full concept of Laois' strategy. I've no doubt Donegal would put a good few points on Laois, but Laois in fairness set up to attack Dublin, which isn't something that's likely Sunday. They contested all Cluxton kick outs 1st half, left a forward line of Munnelly & Conway with Donie Kingston playing out between the 21 and 45. Weight of numbers eventually told and in hindsight the 11 point deficit and decent performance on the day was to be applauded.

downthemiddle

DoctaDee wrote: »

Because if they don't commit numbers forward they'll invite Dublin onto them, there's only so long that you can play a game chasing players down. I wouldn't discount a Donegal win, but the balance of probabilities with the respective playing styles of each team would suggest to me that they will struggle to put the scores up.



Saying you're better than Laois is not quite understanding the full concept of Laois' strategy. I've no doubt Donegal would put a good few points on Laois, but Laois in fairness set up to attack Dublin, which isn't something that's likely Sunday. They contested all Cluxton kick outs 1st half, left a forward line of Munnelly & Conway with Donie Kingston playing out between the 21 and 45. Weight of numbers eventually told and in hindsight the 11 point deficit and decent performance on the day was to be applauded.

There is a fallacy that Dublin are an all out attacking team, something they certainly aren't. Against Monaghan there were times when they played 12 men behind the ball and hit Monaghan on the break. Where Dublin excel is in getting players forward at pace and they commit numbers to attack.
However I expect Sunday's game to be a cagey affair early on. You can expect Paul Flynn to drop back at every opportunity to protect the Dublin full back line. Donegal need to be economical with the ball and make every opportunity count. They also have to counteract the mobility of the Dublin midfielders and use Neil Gallagher intelligently as he doesn't have the legs for McAuley or O'Sullivan. There is a danger that Dublin could run away with the game but if Donegal can frustrate them long enough they can ask questions of this Dublin team that have yet to be asked.

shiibata

Unfortunately, cannot see anything but a convincing Dublin win. We are a shadow of the team that won in 2012, all the players were on song then and not too many weak spots. Whereas now, were carrying players, some not 100% fit and nowhere near as attacking.
Can honestly see a mauling like the Mayo game last year. Only hope we have, is probably revert back to the 2011 tactics and hope for more scores this time.
Hope I am totally wrong but am afraid I will be proved right..

Redsoxfan

DoctaDee wrote: »

Because if they don't commit numbers forward they'll invite Dublin onto them, there's only so long that you can play a game chasing players down. I wouldn't discount a Donegal win, but the balance of probabilities with the respective playing styles of each team would suggest to me that they will struggle to put the scores up.

An expansive game from Donegal might well suit Dublin

Equally, if you say that if we will struggle to put up scores playing defensively, well then why wouldn't a Dublin supporter want that?

DoctaDee

Redsoxfan wrote: »

An expansive game from Donegal might well suit Dublin

Equally, if you say that if we will struggle to put scores playing defensively, well then why wouldn't a Dublin supporter want that?

LOL .. I'm damned if I do and damned if I dont !

But seriously, it seems that all of Donegal are putting their faith in Jim finding a way to curtail Dublin defensively. It just begs the question to me that if things don't go as planned early on for Donegal that they won't have the scope to change strategy ?

If they have to push the panic button and commit big numbers forward they will ship a big score, but if they set out early to place 2-3 players in advanced positions it will still give defensive solidity but with enough manpower to occupy the Dublin back 6 ?

Past30Now

DoctaDee wrote: »

Because if they don't commit numbers forward they'll invite Dublin onto them, there's only so long that you can play a game chasing players down. I wouldn't discount a Donegal win, but the balance of probabilities with the respective playing styles of each team would suggest to me that they will struggle to put the scores up.

Saying you're better than Laois is not quite understanding the full concept of Laois' strategy. I've no doubt Donegal would put a good few points on Laois, but Laois in fairness set up to attack Dublin, which isn't something that's likely Sunday. They contested all Cluxton kick outs 1st half, left a forward line of Munnelly & Conway with Donie Kingston playing out between the 21 and 45. Weight of numbers eventually told and in hindsight the 11 point deficit and decent performance on the day was to be applauded.

You've spoken before about how Dublin have been planning for this game for a long time. The opposite is also true. Donegal have known for a long time that they would be likely to face Dublin at some stage in the Championship. They've been preparing for this game.

Most of us agree that Donegal will have to contest Cluxton's kickouts otherwise we'll have continuous uncontested possession in our own half on Sunday. Most of us agree that Dublin will eventually find a way through the defensive blanket that we are likely to encounter. Most of us also agree that McFadden is not playing at his high standards of 2012 and in all likelihood won't score enough himself. I think it's quite likely that JMG can also see these points. It may be that the Donegal we see on Sunday will surprise us. I don't believe that we'll see Michael Murphy filling in at full back on Sunday. They know they have to use him further up the pitch. I'm not suggesting that we'll get into a free flowing contest devoid of defensive responsibility, but I don't think we'll see 15 Donegal players in their own half on Sunday.

Past30Now

DoctaDee wrote: »

If they have to push the panic button and commit big numbers forward they will ship a big score, but if they set out early to place 2-3 players in advanced positions it will still give defensive solidity but with enough manpower to occupy the Dublin back 6 ?

Didn't see this before my last post. We are broadly in agreement.

Grudaire

Donegal will need to improve their attack to have a hope in this game*, their shooting has not been upto scratch, and keeping Dublin to low scores only will work if they can sneak a few in at the other end.

It may be horrific to watch, but I'm guessing it'll be close and exciting.



* I wouldn't discount the possibility of a mighty ducks style V attacking formation as the new JMcG strategy

Nidgeweasel

Grudaire wrote: »

Donegal will need to improve their attack to have a hope in this game*, their shooting has not been upto scratch, and keeping Dublin to low scores only will work if they can sneak a few in at the other end.

It may be horrific to watch, but I'm guessing it'll be close and exciting.



* I wouldn't discount the possibility of a mighty ducks style V attacking formation as the new JMcG strategy

The two McGees are well capable of their own 'Knuckle Puck' (Or was it knuckle punch) if the occasion calls for it!:D

RoscommonTom

I can't see anything but an easy win for the jacks, 2.19 to 11 points, I think the dknegals will keep it close for the first 20 but that will be the end of it,

RoscommonTom

Nidgeweasel wrote: »

There is a big difference between playing this Donegal side under McGuinness than playing Laois.

Look at what happened last year against the mayos, Donegal can 've totally opened up by a top team

fullstop

RoscommonTom wrote: »

Look at what happened last year against the mayos, Donegal can 've totally opened up by a top team

Coming off the back of a first AI for 20 years and carrying lots of injuries. You seem to have an unhealthy obsession with Donegal lately.

henke

Dublin are rightly strong favourites but I fancy Donegal to make a game of this. I don't think Dublin will run away with it. Donegal, while perhaps not at the level of 2012 are in much better shape than 2013 so I don't see a repeat of the Mayo mauling. Here's hoping .

Nidgeweasel

RoscommonTom wrote: »

Look at what happened last year against the mayos, Donegal can 've totally opened up by a top team

<SNIP> Not helpful - report a post if you have a problem with it.

davegrohl48

Donegal recently completed a 5 day training camp n that is significant. They'll be at their best form of the year. Tactics they can win with? I thought maybe:
1. Split the ball winners into opposite wings. Murphy left with 1 in support beside him. McFadden right with McBrearty in support beside him. The square should be empty. Possibly the support with Murphy could be Rory Kavanagh or Toye. Dublin now are faced with the problem of covering those. Leave the half forward line n 14 positions empty. Position the two ball winning 2 man units between half forward n full forward wide on the wing. One kickpass away from midfield.
If a unit wins posession the other unit on opposite wing splits into two central passing options closer to goal. Runners advance from deep to attack the open middle. The unit in posession work together to win a free/score/find a runner/find one of the now central target men.
2. If Dublin win the ball on their own wing in defence. The opposite wing Donegal unit advance differently. They move as a double to pen in Dublin to that same wing where Dublin have posession meaning they come in the pitch to quickly wrap in Dublin. Donegals runners from deep (midfielders/two half forwards) aware of this tactic change their route to a defensive position where they form a solid defensive line with Donegals four attackers. Dublin should be allowed an easy option backwards as an outlet pass example back to OCarroll or Cluxton. Donegal don't chase that down but already the no. 11 who should be strong defensively forms the axis around which the defensive screen rearranges based on the next pass by Cluxton/OCarroll likely to be short to guys like Mccauley/Flynn/Devereaux. Guys who can burst past tackles. Donegal need to at this point create double ups with big men like Murphy/Toye and McFadden/McBrearty. The runners need to be able to constantly cover ground in defending against the Dublin counter attack in Dublins half.
3. The above tactic fails after 40 minutes when the runners (two half forwards/midfielders) start to flag. Dublin would start to figure out the screen n how to pass around it. Essential is getting on fresh legs to do that runner role.
4. When Dublin have attacking posession offer them up points opportunities from distance but close off the square.
5. In each half the four ball winners n the runners have to goal off of Murphy. In setting him up like that Donegal can win penalties n black cards. The focus on these four players can surely put their markers on yellow cards.
6. Man mark Paul Flynn even when he returns to defence.
7. Mark OGara with Neil McGee as he is so physical.
I think this can work as it splits Dublins most physical four defenders 60 metres apart (distance from area both units operate in wide on wings). The two less physical defenders mind the centre with Mccauley/Flynn/OSullivan. If Donegal win posession in the units they can burst past their men supporting each other with no coverage. No coverage as Dublins free defenders n midfielders must guard the open pitch from Donegals four runners (2 midfielders/2 half forwards) and also watch for the unit on opposite wing who advance towards unmarked space in the centre running planned routes not just simple straight lines to the square. As I noted leave the square empty n allow it as a simple backpass to Cluxton. That way Donegal know many of the defensive screens they have to setup n it gives them time to be perfectly formed. Goal chances can be created with Murphy advancing towards the square n then they get kickable frees/penalties/black n yellow cards. If posession is turned over a good well organised screen can stop Dublin running the ball out from the back.
I think these two man units can win plenty ball as they'll have a height n size advantage on the Dublin backs.
This is all I can think of to beat current Dublin team. It's simply a high line which is nothing new but it uses the sideline to limit Dublins counter attack given that the units are close to the sideline. Dublins extra men defensively are not able to mark anyone effectively until they can pickup the run of the advancing six players. If Dublin mark a Donegal wing unit 3 on 2 or mark both units 3 on 2 then they're left totally open in the middle of the pitch. Hence the reason the units should play very wide to prevent coverage of a unit and the middle of pitch at the same time. Murphys unit you'd actually play a little nearer to the endline to increase the gap in Dublins defence n move him closer to goal.

Stoner

Looking forward to and not looking forward to the game.

If I was a neutral I'd like to see McAuley verses Gallagher and O'Gara verses McGee.

There are some good match ups, will Murphy or Connelly grab the game by the neck?

I've a feeling Rock might have a bigger say than usual in this game, his fast shooting could come into play in a potentially intense game.

Fr Tod Umptious

Donegal will hold out a frustrated Dublin for a long time but will never be able to build any sort of lead themselves.
Eventually Dublin will break them down and win it by 5 or 6, no massacre though.

Would love to see Donegal win it though.

Would be class seeing them stuffed by Mayo or Kerry in the final.

Sunnyisland

Unfortunally for me I won't get to see here or find out results of match till later Sunday evening, I nervous as usual before a big game involving Dublin but at the same time confident enough for us to win this one.


Come on the Dubs.

downthemiddle

Fr Tod Umptious wrote: »

Donegal will hold out a frustrated Dublin for a long time but will never be able to build any sort of lead themselves.
Eventually Dublin will break them down and win it by 5 or 6, no massacre though.

Would love to see Donegal win it though.

Would be class seeing them stuffed by Mayo or Kerry in the final.

So if Donegal beat Dublin they would get stuffed by Mayo or Kerry. That's an interesting form line.
The begrudgery towards Donegal from some posters is pathetic. It shows a complete lack of respect for what this team has achieved. Ironically it tends to come mainly from posters whose county's have not won a title in their lifetime.

Nidgeweasel

Fr Tod Umptious wrote: »

Donegal will hold out a frustrated Dublin for a long time but will never be able to build any sort of lead themselves.
Eventually Dublin will break them down and win it by 5 or 6, no massacre though.

Would love to see Donegal win it though.

Would be class seeing them stuffed by Mayo or Kerry in the final.

Ah Mayo man, why the bitterness?

davidfitz22

Nidgeweasel wrote: »

Ah Mayo man, why the bitterness?

Shock horror a mayo man is bitter. They got away with that kerry game by 3 inches. Either way both Donegal and Dublin are well equipped to beat mayo in the final.

Past30Now

davidfitz22 wrote: »

Shock horror a mayo man is bitter. They got away with that kerry game by 3 inches. Either way both Donegal and Dublin are well equipped to beat mayo in the final.

For almost all of the second half Mayo were very good ,bordering on brilliant, against Kerry. They were a man and 5 points down a minute into the second half, and 5 points up later in the half. I think Kerry had their chance on Sunday, and if I'm right about that, then Mayo will be coming to Croke Park on the 3rd Sunday in September with a great deal of confidence, hunger and ability. They'll be significantly better equipped then they've been for the last two finals.

Apols for going slightly off topic.

Ceist_Beag

Fr Tod Umptious wrote: »

Would love to see Donegal win it though.

Would be class seeing them stuffed by Mayo or Kerry in the final.

That's pretty sad from a Mayo man. What would be class would be to acknowledge a fine team.

K-9

downthemiddle wrote: »

So Donegal if Donegal beat Dublin they would get stuffed by Mayo or Kerry. That's an interesting form line.
The begrudgery towards Donegal from some posters is pathetic. It shows a complete lack of respect for what this team has achieved. Ironically it tends to come mainly from posters whose county's have not won a title in their lifetime.

If Donegal got through it would make an intriguing final, I wouldn't know how it would go against either team.

Nidgeweasel

K-9 wrote: »

If Donegal got through it would make an intriguing final, I wouldn't know how it would go against either team.

We would get whalloped by Mayo imo.

That is the nightmare obviously. Beat the dubs and lose to Mayo in a final.

davidfitz22

Nidgeweasel wrote: »

We would get whalloped by Mayo imo.

That is the nightmare obviously. Beat the dubs and lose to Mayo in a final.

Mayo have had their revenge last year, The Dubs however will want make a statement against donegal since donegal are the team touted to stop them.They will step up a gear from when they played monaghan i'd imagine.

SM746

davidfitz22 wrote: »

Mayo have had their revenge last year, The Dubs however will want make a statement against donegal since donegal are the team touted to stop them.They will step up a gear from when they played monaghan i'd imagine.

Unfortunately it pains me to say it but I'm in total agreement. I have looked at it from every angle and I just cannot see us winning.. God how I hope I am proved wrong but I just cannot see it!

davidfitz22

SM746 wrote: »

Unfortunately it pains me to say it but I'm in total agreement. I have looked at it from every angle and I just cannot see us winning.. God how I hope I am proved wrong but I just cannot see it!

If Jim has some sort of master plan they can edge it, but this dublin team is unlike anything else out there

Slattsy

Cant wait! On a stag with a load of Donegal lads this weekend, then big rush back on Sunday to make The Big Tree for a few beforehand.
My liver is screaming at me already

Pound for pound, man for man Dublin win this by 30 points. But it wont be that easy.

Donegal being Donegal they'll be negative for sure and play the game to contain and limit the opposition so it'll be much tighter than 30 points - fancy us to win by 10 or so. I'd love for Donegal to come out and play but that'd be folly.
Hopefully McFadden plays (i know some Donegal lads want him dropped) as he's awful and dont rate McBrearty too much either so cant see where Donegal scores come from unless we gave away needless fouls - Murphy is accurate.
Probably be an awful game to watch for neutrals (lolz) but i wont care once we win.

Might be our hardest game of year too which will be great going into the final.

Nidgeweasel

Slattsy wrote: »

Pound for pound, man for man Dublin win this by 30 points.

Have you started drinking on that stag already?

Fr Tod Umptious

Ceist_Beag wrote: »

That's pretty sad from a Mayo man. What would be class would be to acknowledge a fine team.

I'm not bitter
I just don't like their fans, their manger or their style

But I will give them credit for 2012, and I have said that before here, they played far more expansive football than in 2011 or since.

Their fans go around like they are the greatest thing since the Kerry golden years, they need to be reminded that they have less All Ireland than Mayo, Tipp, Wexford, Kildare etc etc.

Their manager has and unbelievable ego, and has already alienated at least two fine footballers, and god only know how many younger promising guys who we will never find out about because they did not do things Jimmy's way.
He has never missed an importunity to try and play pathetic mind games in the media, and if it's not him that's doing it's one of his lackeys.

And their style of football is pure anti-football. They will never thrill the neutral the way Mayo and Kerry did last week.
The 2011 SF should be used as a CIA torture technique.

As I said I would like them to win so that Mayo or Kerry could beat seven colours of s**te out of them on the biggest stage, but if I am watching it on Sunday I will be cheering Dublin all the way, cos the sight of them just sickens me.

K-9

Fr Tod Umptious wrote: »

Their fans go around like they are the greatest thing since the Kerry golden years, they need to be reminded that they have less All Ireland than Mayo, Tipp, Wexford, Kildare etc etc.

We don't fcuking care.

As for the rest of it, don't hold back now.