**Spoilers** Series 8, Episode 2 - "Into the Dalek"

pixelburp

Well, here's Capaldi's sophomore effort, which also happens to be the Contractually Obliged Dalek Adventure.

I'll be brutally honest, I'm fairly apathetic about the Dalek's presence at this stage, and I'm not all that bothered about the story. It seems like such a long, long time since that lone Dalek caused terror and chaos in Series 1's 'Dalek'. They're completely overused, utterly ineffectual (when was the last time we saw a Dalek actually exterminate someone, because I'm genuinely drawing a blank here! We see their lasers zap about the place a lot, but that's about it).

I wonder if they weren't owned by the Nation Estate, would the Beeb be so desperate to use the Daleks at every juncture? Aside from their significance in the mythology of the show, I wonder what might be in the contract between the two parties that they get trotted out so bloody often.

Anyway, clips below, and judging by the banter, I'm really warming to Capaldi's snarky delivery;
'Yeah, she's my carer. She cares so I don't have to'
Hmm, honestly, that sounds very PG13 Tucker to me

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zx2cSUtGM1E

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jdVm2tGuyao

Lord TSC

Some problems with the plot (Did no one think that fixing the Dalek might fix him being "good"? Did they not think to secure him before they started messing round on him?).

Pink and Blue can't be a coincidence. Also, guessing that we got the answer to last week's question as to whether the the Robot jumped or was pushed last week; this week, we get someone committing suicide to help the Doctor and she goes to "heaven", so presumably the robot did too. Probably going to get a string of such deaths.

Pink was likeable (as a teacher, I related to him; ok, not the soldier bit.....).

And I do like the story arc of "Am I a good man?". I really like Capaldi's doctor, even if his first two stories were a bit weak.

Angron

Damn it! I was working today, got home exhausted, lay down a while and forgot this was on!

martingriff

Lord TSC wrote: »

Some problems with the plot (Did no one think that fixing the Dalek might fix him being "good"? Did they not think to secure him before they started messing round on him?).

Pink and Blue can't be a coincidence. Also, guessing that we got the answer to last week's question as to whether the the Robot jumped or was pushed last week; this week, we get someone committing suicide to help the Doctor and she goes to "heaven", so presumably the robot did too. Probably going to get a string of such deaths.

Pink was likeable (as a teacher, I related to him; ok, not the soldier bit.....).

And I do like the story arc of "Am I a good man?". I really like Capaldi's doctor, even if his first two stories were a bit weak.

The am I a good man and did he push or not will be an arc for the full season as will who is the lady. Love the line I'm his carer ya she cares so I do not have to. I say the teacher will become a companion. They like having 2 companions in the show at times (Mickey, Jack Rory)

Edit do think he is the brother and the doctor some how sent him to earth

Blue_Dabadee

I did enjoy this episode granted there were a few plot holes as someone mentioned above and i like where going with "Am I a good man?" storyline arc for this season of Doctor Who. I was not sold on Peter Capaldi but now i like him as new doctor with this episode.

Angron wrote: »

Damn it! I was working today, got home exhausted, lay down a while and forgot this was on!

Me too, thank god for BBC iPlayer.

bnt

Some great Continuity there. One minute they're all swimming in gunge, the next minute their clothes are all perfect again. Never mind that the gunge is supposed to be the Dalek's stomach acid i.e. corrosive - they hardly noticed.

ixoy

I'm not a big fan of Dalek episodes but this was one of my favourite Dalek episodes of the new run because they did something a little different and made the most empathic Dalek since.. well 'Dalek'.

Peter Capaldi's take on the Doctor was much more visible here. He's a bit angrier and definitely more callous (his comment on the digested remains of the soldier was particularly notable). His years of acting also help with with the scenes of him talking, and trying to convince, the Dalek to be good only to backfire on him.

As to the Missy plot: Obviously Missy is saving all of those that the Doctor through his actions (or specifically inaction) allowed to die. To what end is the question. If she's actually in love with him then it's to try and give him hope. If she's actually the Master then perhaps it's to cruelly break the Doctor by killing them "again" in front of him. I like the latter idea and that Missy, being the Master, would see Moffat address the long-standing criticism that Time Lords never switch genders when regenerating (although pedants can point to his work on "Curse of the Fatal Death" but that was a Comic Relief piece of nonsense).

CastorTroy

So will the Doctor name anything after Gretchen?

Don't know what to think of the Heaven storyline so far, but it has got me curious.

And The Doctor asking if he's a good man when it was something that was said about Matt Smith before and even had an episode called "A Good Man goes to war"

Not sure if I want the other teacher to be another companion. May make the Doctor rethink his opinion on soldiers as he did with daleks when he sees him crying.

Lord TSC

With Missy, I wouldn't mind it being a new character.

If, for instance, she's just some "Angel of Death" character, then her calling the Doctor her boyfriend could simply be that he's continually sending her gifts in the forms of souls who sacrificed themselves for a greater good; that self-sacrifice gets their souls into "heaven", and God knows people seem willing (and nearly eager) to kill themselves in his name. Wouldn't mind the show trying to forge a new top tier villain of sorts, rather than falling back on The Master/Daleks/River again....

Hashtag_HEEL

Any comic book fans here?
If so you'll know what I'm on about, if not it'll make sense somehow.

Deadpool has a fascination and relationship with death. They're an item but they're not allowed be together because he can't die. Remind you of anyone?

I think Missy is death or the angel of death and she has an infatuation with the doctor. The one soul she has never been able to collect, so she collects those from around him. Just a guess

tritium

Angron wrote: »

Damn it! I was working today, got home exhausted, lay down a while and forgot this was on!

That's what BBC player and tunnel bear are there for....

Also Starring LeVar Burton

Much better outing than last week's and allowed Capaldi to shine a bit more. And as Dalek episodes go, probably one of the better ones.

Was great to see Dolorous Edd (Game Of Thrones) in there as Ross. Didn't think I'd like Pink when they announced the character earlier this year, but actually thought he was great. Hope we see Blue again as well - would be a shame if she was just a one off character.

ixoy

I really like where capaldi is going with this. He doesn't take any sh!t. especially the stuff at the start when he was saving yer wan.

ixoy wrote: »

As to the Missy plot: Obviously Missy is saving all of those that the Doctor through his actions (or specifically inaction) allowed to die. To what end is the question. If she's actually in love with him then it's to try and give him hope. If she's actually the Master then perhaps it's to cruelly break the Doctor by killing them "again" in front of him. I like the latter idea and that Missy, being the Master, would see Moffat address the long-standing criticism that Time Lords never switch genders when regenerating (although pedants can point to his work on "Curse of the Fatal Death" but that was a Comic Relief piece of nonsense).

First i thought, well, we didn't see her disintegrate like the first guy who died of the antibodies in the episode, so maybe they're getting transported somehow just before actual death. Like they did with the people on that twisted game show planet

What was the other epsiode ages ago when they rubbed it in tennant's face about all these people who die for him? Are they going back to that again?
Oh, that was Davros in journey's end, wasn't it.
Seems like it anyway

BlitzKrieg

Enjoyable enough, rusty was an interesting character bits of Dalek from the first Dalek story since reboot but also a bit of that Dalek who went nuts in the davros story (caan or something) also reminds me of how when they first introduced Clara there was a small hope of a Dalek companion for a brief bit.

There's still these odd camera bits showing up when characters jump down things to extend the action. It had it last episode with the tree

I don't like it. Stop it

doctorwhogirl

Think Capaldi is definitely getting round some of the doubters from the looks of twitter etc... Love the no sh!t attitude...You're in a pile of human soup, get over it."

I too spent the latter half of the episode questioning the strength of the plot in the sense of how they didn't consider the repercussions of fixing the dalek.

Liked Pink, and pretty obvious the name (and soldier) thing with Journey Blue has to be a link up for later on given that he came up in conversation between Journey and Clara. That, or the writers are seriously struggling with character names this year and have resorted to primary and secondary colours. Or they're doing a Goodfellas omage.
I think he is a solid actor and there was a nice balance to the character.

I was glad they gave a (necessary) nod to the obvious inspo for the episode, Innerspace. One of my favourite films as a child, oddly enough!

Like a good few of you, I'm not a big fan of dalek episodes at all. They really do feel forced at this stage. However, it was a good vehicle for Capaldi further marking his territory and developing the series story arc with Missy etc...

Next week looks very Men in Tights. Don't think I'll need to concentrate too much while watching by the look of things!

doctorwhogirl

Oh, and did anyone notice the ring on the doctor's ring finger on the left hand? Has he had that for long or is that a new addition since the aul nuptials?

matrim

doctorwhogirl wrote: »

Oh, and did anyone notice the ring on the doctor's ring finger on the left hand? Has he had that for long or is that a new addition since the aul nuptials?

It seems to be part of Capaldi's costume. I don't remember Matt Smith having it and Capaldi had it at the end of the last episode and also during the initial costume photo shoot

BlitzKrieg

More of a fantastic voyage reference then inner space but both cut from the same cloth

Mr Rhode Island Red

I actually thought it was a weak episode. Didn't really enjoy it.

tommy2bad

Finding the introspective doctor abit over done already. Guardian reading Clara needs to tell him 'get over yourself'.
This was more a remake of Ecclestons 'Dalek' than Fantastic voyage. Same theme of the doctors hatred of daleks and what it means to his persona, "you would make a good Dalek". Add in a bit about his dislike for soldiers and we have more of the same old same old.
Nothing in this season so far to convince new viewers but lots to please fans. I suspect they think it's clever to have nods and winks to past episodes, old sifi movies and bad sets but tbh it comes across as pandering and is in danger of turning the show into a parody of Dr Who. As much as I enjoyed the obvious recycled pipeing for the daleks innards it looked wrong in this age of cgi.
More Missy, OK I'm good with that a long arch helps and it was only a tease, not so much the repeated 'am I a good man' thing. I hope this isn't the entire center for this season, it might doom Capaldi to being the Hamlet of doctors, all introspection and second guessing himself.
Oh and did the crack in the dalek look a bit like the crack in the space time with Matt Smiths doctor? Am I reading too much into it?

jasonb

Yep, I gotta agree, not a great one in my opinion.

Firstly, I'm rather tired of the Daleks. They spend a lot more time talking about killing everyone, Destroy, Exterminate, Kill etc. etc. then actually doing it. Yes, to be fair, they killed a fair few 'extras' last night', but that's all they really ever seem to do. They are just no longer a real threat in the program I think.

Secondly, far too many plot holes, and the Doctor seemed to be relatively stupid in this episode. Yes, it's good to show how much Clara helps him, to strengthen their 'new' relatioinship, but not to the point where you'd rather have Clara saving the day than the Doctor!

Lord TSC wrote: »

Some problems with the plot (Did no one think that fixing the Dalek might fix him being "good"? Did they not think to secure him before they started messing round on him?).

bnt wrote: »

Some great Continuity there. One minute they're all swimming in gunge, the next minute their clothes are all perfect again. Never mind that the gunge is supposed to be the Dalek's stomach acid i.e. corrosive - they hardly noticed.

bluewolf wrote: »

First i thought, well, we didn't see her disintegrate like the first guy who died of the antibodies in the episode, so maybe they're getting transported somehow just before actual death.

BlitzKrieg wrote: »

There's still these odd camera bits showing up when characters jump down things to extend the action. It had it last episode with the tree

I don't like it. Stop it

Yes, yes, yes and yes. Why not have the Dalek more secure? The first thing I noticed, when they healed the Dalek and he 'turned evil' again, is that someone opened the doors and he killed both of them. Since when was opening the doors a good idea?

Other issues with the writing included the Doctor explaining perfectly how the Dalek wanted their help but was still attacking them ('Can you control your Anti-bodies?') but when the Commander (whose only job seemed to be to say 'Fall Back' all the time while everyone else was killed) asked Blue about it, instead of using that perfect analogy, she left it open and didn't explain it.

Definite difference between the first Anti-body death and the second one. Maybe because one ended up in 'Heaven', or maybe because they just decided to do it differently the second time.

doctorwhogirl wrote: »

I was glad they gave a (necessary) nod to the obvious inspo for the episode, Innerspace. One of my favourite films as a child, oddly enough!

BlitzKrieg wrote: »

More of a fantastic voyage reference then inner space but both cut from the same cloth

I must be getting old, I definitely thought of Fantastic Voyage and only remembered Inner Space (which I loved when I was younger) when I read this thread...

Some more random thoughts:

The school girl who has been in both episodes (in a Flashback for Clara in the 1st and in the school in this one) reminds me of Melody Pond... .

Why didn't Blue just hide in the Jeffries Tube with Clara when the Anti-bodies came?

What was with the crazy camera 'liquid' effect when they walked from the capsule through what is basically a glass eye? We've seen those Eye Stalks destroyed and they were made of glass, so how did they walk through it?

If Pink is Blue's brother, are Blue and Pink their first names, or last names?

The crack in the Dalek was definitely a nod to the Crack for Smith's Doctor, but I think it was a nod (like Girl in the Fireplace or Baker's Scarf in the last episode) then it actually coming back again.

I don't know, I do like Capaldi and I've high hopes for him, he's definitely showing a callous side, but it just wasn't a great episode at all. The fact that I had time to notice and not like all these things in the episode shows that I wasn't into it, and was just observing it instead, if that makes sense?

Next one looks like Calpaldi's 'Dickens/Shakespeare/Christie' episode...

J.

CastorTroy

I did like the no sh!t attitude. I could see Matt Smith or Tennant trying to save Ross from the antibodies. Capaldi barely hesitated in planning on using his death to his advantage.

I was thinking the heaven could be the people being teleported before they die, but then we saw the one last week impaled on the spire, so unless she's swapping them with replicas, I don't see how it could be.
Or they're all in a certain library

Angron

CastorTroy wrote: »

I did like the no sh!t attitude. I could see Matt Smith or Tennant trying to save Ross from the antibodies. Capaldi barely hesitated in planning on using his death to his advantage.

I was thinking the heaven could be the people being teleported before they die, but then we saw the one last week impaled on the spire, so unless she's swapping them with replicas, I don't see how it could be.
Or they're all in a certain library

Well, given he was android, it's possible he was teleported while still alive.

Also, I can just picture Tennant looking upset and telling the man he's "sorry, so sorry." :pac:

Das Kitty

I didn't think it was a great episode.

It was a bit stupidly hopeful of the Doctor not to even consider that fixing the dalek might reset its wicked ways. Either that or he really didn't give a flip what happened to the crew of the ship.

I feel we've done the "you are a better dalek than me" thing before.

I'm hopeful for this Robin Hood one.

Sonics2k

doctorwhogirl wrote: »

Oh, and did anyone notice the ring on the doctor's ring finger on the left hand? Has he had that for long or is that a new addition since the aul nuptials?

It's Capaldis own wedding ring, which he refused to take off for the show because he always wears it. I heard they've adapted it into the plot

pixelburp

pixelburp wrote: »

[...] (when was the last time we saw a Dalek actually exterminate someone, because I'm genuinely drawing a blank here! We see their lasers zap about the place a lot, but that's about it) [...]

Well at least that bit from my post was fulfilled; it really did feel like a long time since Daleks were seen going nuts on some hapless cannon-fodder.

Anyway, first, belated impressions consist of 'hmm'; not sure what to make of that episode to be honest, certainly not without repeating much of the rant from my opening post; it was all quite humdrum and there's simply no escaping just how hopelessly overexposed the Daleks are these days - to the point where stories are beginning to repeat themselves, coming off as narratives simply going through the motions. We've done to death the whole thread of the Doctor's hatred of the Daleks being revered and admired by them - yet here we are again, making the same points. The Doctor's a 'good dalek', jesus we practically had the exact same line back in series 1 of the new run.

It's not going to happen, because the Beeb's license and merchandising depends on the continued use of the Daleks, but I am completely sick to death with these guys; they're the law of diminishing returns in action. Although in this case I think rock bottom has been achieved - there are no more tales to tell.

I'm also not sure how enamored I am with Capaldi, or the portrayal at least. It all came off a bit too Malcolm Tucker for my liking, full of bitchy asides that make him that tiny bit too unlikable. It's all very well going 'darker', but there still has to be a spark that makes it understandable why people might want to travel with him. Smith's Doc felt like a better combination of the light and the dark; the infantile and the cold-hearted. The 'I hate soldiers' thing also rang really false given the sheer weight of the Doctor's personal history and felt like a flimsy excuse for preemptive conflict when Danny joins the crew. He was the one bright spot mind you, I liked him and seemed to have nice chemistry with Clara so that could be fun.

And continuing the negativity I find it depressing just how cheap the show has become; ok, I grew up with the classic series and am well versed with the art of the wobbly wall, or a monster made of bubble-wrap, but it's sad to see the (admittedly station-wide) budget-cuts on screen as the Doc and Clara navigated around cheap plastic hoses and flat sets.

In retrospect I enjoyed last weeks episode more than I thought I did, but this weeks was fairly poor.

Wibbs

pixelburp wrote: »

The Doctor's a 'good dalek', jesus we practically had the exact same line back in series 1 of the new run.

+1. I found it an ideas free zone alright.

Although in this case I think rock bottom has been achieved - there are no more tales to tell.

Funny enough - and I'm not gonna be popular for this... - while the concept still has some way to go it does have a feeling that the show itself is approaching bottom too, or it's circling down that way. For me anyway.

I'm also not sure how enamored I am with Capaldi, or the portrayal at least.

Ditto. OK it's early days, but I find him (surprisingly) leaden and he rushes and mumbles his lines. I'd bet a fair few outside the UK and Ireland had subtitles on. There's little to make him "attractive" as a character for an audience. Like you said it needs a spark and I find it lacking so far.

And continuing the negativity I find it depressing just how cheap the show has become; ok, I grew up with the classic series and am well versed with the art of the wobbly wall, or a monster made of bubble-wrap, but it's sad to see the (admittedly station-wide) budget-cuts on screen as the Doc and Clara navigated around cheap plastic hoses and flat sets.

Agreed, though for me it wasn't the lack of money that grated, more the lack of ideas.

TBH I really do get the feeling that a shark is about to be jumped with Nu Who and Capaldi may well be the last of the Docs to grace our screens.

flazio

Wibbs wrote: »

TBH I really do get the feeling that a shark is about to be jumped with Nu Who and Capaldi may well be the last of the Docs to grace our screens.

I hope Moffat goes before Capaldi.

Doctor DooM

Jaysis I must have been the only one that enjoyed it.

The thing that actually annoyed me is that the episode was so analagous of beast below (Is the suffering creature good or evil? Sliding into gunk, companion stops Doctor being morose by giving a humane idea as a solution).

I also quite enjoyed snarky Doctor, but then I love The Thick of It too.

We'll see with the next episode if Capaldi can do the lighter side of the character...

Frank Lee Midere

He does mumble his lines. Amazing they don't retake some of that.

Smith was great in looking like an old man in a young body. Capaldi needs the opposite.

tritium

Not sure what to think about the episode- a mix of good and bad for me.

I've a feeling well be seeing more of rusty- dalek civil war anyone?

Daleks have certainly come a long way since their first appearances when the doctors companions could just pop inside and pilot them. Evolution I guess

Missy, for some reason every time I see her Madame Kovarian comes to mind. No particular reason, just does.