Man comes out to family about being Gay, does not go well

eviltwin

PeteFalk78 wrote: »

No I think it is reasonable that they control who does/doesn't live in their house

So if my child comes out to me and I can't accept that and ask them to leave that's reasonable?

Czarcasm

Shakespeare's Sister wrote: »

Czarcasm, he was thrown out because he's gay. I don't know how you've reached the conclusion that he was thrown out because of having a tantrum.

The thread title itself is misleading. According to the latest media reports his family knew he was gay since last May, and this was their idea of an "intervention" to "stop him being gay".

Look, I know how stupid that sounds, you know how stupid that sounds, but to this guys parents, they don't know any better, and they don't want to know any better, so when their son says "science trumps religion", that's bound to tick them off.

I don't think they were ever in line for any parents of the year awards in the first place, but their son based on his behaviour, in my opinion, isn't in for any son of the year awards either.

SpaceTime wrote: »

Because they're just trolling the thread or are genuinely completely anti-gay and will just keep trying to see something that isn't actually in the video and telling everyone else that they're wrong.

You're wasting your time and energy even entering a debate with some posters. They've one dogmatic point of view and that's all they'll consider.

ST I've never been a troll and I'm not about to start now. Respect your parents and your elders is something I personally have always believed in, and that idea isn't just rooted in religion. It's how society has operated since human kind first walked the earth. It may not be a popular opinion among some people nowadays, but for most people in society, it still is! That's not just a dogmatic point of view, it's the reality we all live in, and more people understand that sentiment than those who disagree with it.

You should also know from my previous posts and post history that I'm certainly not anti-gay or homophobic. I just don't agree with the way this guy disrespected his parents, and if that's the way he had always carried on, well then the sensible thing to do was move out before he was kicked out.

PeteFalk78

eviltwin wrote: »

So if my child comes out to me and I can't accept that and ask them to leave that's reasonable?

If your "child" is an adult and is spouting out vitriol about you for the whole world to see then I think then it is reasonable. There is obviously more going on in their relationship than different views on homosexuality.

caustic 1

Why is it because not agreeing with the gay guy you are immediately classed as homophobic or trolling? If everyone were to have the same opinion the world would be a pretty dull place. Also I don't think there is anyone agreeing that the parents were right in how they handled it. I do however think that they agree that the parents were right to express their views on the subject, and yes I know this ended up in them putting their son to the street but that is the only way they know how to cope with it. Does that make it right? In most peoples views of course not, but in their world which is ruled by religion yes they are right.

Why is it wasting time and energy engaging in debate with posters whose views differ to yours? Surely that is being as closed minded as the parents involved.

Export

The bible should tell them all they need to know about violence.

Export

PeteFalk78 wrote: »

If your "child" is an adult and is spouting out vitriol about you for the whole world to see then I think then it is reasonable. There is obviously more going on in their relationship than different views on homosexuality.

What do suggest is going on?

Export

caustic 1 wrote: »

Why is it because not agreeing with the gay guy you are immediately classed as homophobic or trolling? If everyone were to have the same opinion the world would be a pretty dull place. Also I don't think there is anyone agreeing that the parents were right in how they handled it. I do however think that they agree that the parents were right to express their views on the subject, and yes I know this ended up in them putting their son to the street but that is the only way they know how to cope with it. Does that make it right? In most peoples views of course not, but in their world which is ruled by religion yes they are right.

Why is it wasting time and energy engaging in debate with posters whose views differ to yours? Surely that is being as closed minded as the parents involved.

I'm sure 'God' is turning in his grave - the amount of times his name is taken in vain.

caustic 1

So they believe in God, because you may not does that make them wrong?

hatrickpatrick

darced wrote: »

This post has been deleted.

To be fair if this is the way his parents act on an ongoing basis I for one wouldn't blame him in the least for wanting a bit of vengeance.

Inanna

Why do we have to debate it?

The Muslim who believes adulterous women should be stoned is only following his beliefs too but I doubt we'd see as many falling over themselves with laboured nuance to say he's right to follow his beliefs.

Religious beliefs are not the get out of jail free card for behaving like an asshole that some posters are treating them as.

caustic 1

Inanna wrote: »

Why do we have to debate it?

The Muslim who believes adulterous women should be stoned is only following his beliefs too but I doubt we'd see as many falling over themselves with laboured nuance to say he's right to follow his beliefs.

Religious beliefs are not the get out of jail free card for behaving like an asshole that some posters are treating them as.

Very true, and they are someone son, brother etc in the same way a paedophile is and is not tolerated by the masses either and rightly so. It makes me think that these people think this is so wrong that they are willing to lose their son over it. The first thing that was said on this video was that he was loved but they could not find it in them to tolerate what he was doing therefore they were asking him to leave. It was him that suggested they never see him again and they said if that's what he wants so be it. They simply don't support his way of life, they won't be the first or last sadly.

Czarcasm

Export wrote: »

What do suggest is going on?

The man is telling his parents, in their own home in which they raised him for 20 years, that his science trumps their religion. That was before anyone laid a hand on him ('for the record' as you put it).

Another thing that never ceases to amaze me is how some people here will admonish the parents and say how it wasn't very Christian of them to react the way they did, as if being Christian should mean they should tolerate their son making little of their religious beliefs, in their home.

They're human beings themselves, and when their own son turns on them the way he did after they have tried to raise him in accordance with their beliefs, and the way he behaved was bound to hurt them and make them angry. At this stage he's not just a child any more, so his behaviour can't just be excused by saying he's their child any more. He's a fully grown adult who should've known how to behave better than he did and should've known to respect his parents religious beliefs, even if he didn't agree with them, instead of coming out with "science trumps religion" as if that was going to make any difference.

That wasn't trying to help his family understand him, that was him behaving like an arse hole, and he got the reaction he wanted, on camera. If anyone damaged, and continues to damage the relationship with his parents, it's this man himself, but I doubt he cares much about that now when he has the validation of Internet strangers behind him, and that's if he ever cared about what his parents thought in the first place.

Export

Czarcasm wrote: »

The man is telling his parents, in their own home in which they raised him for 20 years, that his science trumps their religion. That was before anyone laid a hand on him ('for the record' as you put it).

Another thing that never ceases to amaze me is how some people here will admonish the parents and say how it wasn't very Christian of them to react the way they did, as if being Christian should mean they should tolerate their son making little of their religious beliefs, in their home.

They're human beings themselves, and when their own son turns on them the way he did after they have tried to raise him in accordance with their beliefs, and the way he behaved was bound to hurt them and make them angry. At this stage he's not just a child any more, so his behaviour can't just be excused by saying he's their child any more. He's a fully grown adult who should've known how to behave better than he did and should've known to respect his parents religious beliefs, even if he didn't agree with them, instead of coming out with "science trumps religion" as if that was going to make any difference.

That wasn't trying to help his family understand him, that was him behaving like an arse hole, and he got the reaction he wanted, on camera. If anyone damaged, and continues to damage the relationship with his parents, it's this man himself, but I doubt he cares much about that now when he has the validation of Internet strangers behind him, and that's if he ever cared about what his parents thought in the first place.

Tell that to an audience who are advocating criminal rights.

osarusan

I don't really get why the parents are adults whose position can be considered understandable because they just don't know any better, but the son is a grown adult who can be criticised because he should have known better.

vetinari

Hopefully in the long run, the parents will feel remorse and seek forgiveness from their son.
I honestly don't get how anyone can defend them.
You can disagree with someone else's personal beliefs but still not disown that person.

Czarcasm

Export wrote: »

Tell that to an audience who are advocating criminal rights.

Export I'm genuinely struggling to make out what you're trying to say here? That's not me being smart with you, you've thrown in comments there a couple of times and I have no idea where you're coming from, what you mean, what you're trying to say, and how it relates to anything I've said.

Again, I'm not trying to be smart, and if I was trying to be dismissive or disrespectful, I wouldn't have bothered to ask for clarification.

Czarcasm

osarusan wrote: »

I don't really get why the parents are adults whose position can be considered understandable because they just don't know any better, but the son is a grown adult who can be criticised because he should have known better.

Religion = Ignorance
Science = Enlightenment

Well, that's the theory behind it anyway, and if anything, this video shows that just because a person is able to talk about science, doesn't mean they can't be ignorant in other ways, and just because they're gay, doesn't mean they can't still be an arse hole.

Some posters here seem to be languishing under the misguided belief that being gay somehow automatically means you're a better human being. That's no different to religious people who believe the same thing. Two sides of the same coin, one as misguided as the other.

vetinari wrote: »

Hopefully in the long run, the parents will feel remorse and seek forgiveness from their son.
I honestly don't get how anyone can defend them.

Seek forgiveness from their son for what exactly? I'd say there's as much chance of them feeling remorse as there is a chance that their son will feel any remorse for his actions.

You can disagree with someone else's personal beliefs but still not disown that person.

And if you're a 20 year old man and you're not happy where you're living, the onus is on you to move out of the family home, not your parents. That'd be just silly.

Export

Czarcasm wrote: »

Export I'm genuinely struggling to make out what you're trying to say here? That's not me being smart with you, you've thrown in comments there a couple of times and I have no idea where you're coming from, what you mean, what you're trying to say, and how it relates to anything I've said.

Again, I'm not trying to be smart, and if I was trying to be dismissive or disrespectful, I wouldn't have bothered to ask for clarification.

If you think about it long enough, you'll find the answer.

Czarcasm

Export wrote: »

If you think about it long enough, you'll find the answer.

Ok well I tried to ask politely but like the guy in the video, you insist on being a smart arse and think you're being clever about it. I'm not going to bother my arse thinking about it any longer tbh.

This is supposed to be a discussion forum, not a 'who can come up with the cleverest quips and insults for thanks' forum. That attitude just gets nobody anywhere.

qo2cj1dsne8y4k

There's absolutely no defending those parents at all. Have you even heard how nasty they were to him? How can a mother start a sentence with "I love you but" and then go on to disown her own child because of who he prefers sexually? What's that got to do with her? What her son likes in bed? She's going on about the word of god. I'm pretty sure God wouldn't disown his child for being true to themselves.

And all that aside, she attacked him, and his dad called him queer. That's not how family speak to each other. You'd wonder why they'd expect their son to have any respect for them, if that's the way they speak to him. You don't demand respect, you earn it. And them calling their son a queer and "son of a bitch" isn't exactly something to be respected, either by their son or random people online.

As a parent surely the most important thing is that your child is healthy and happy, everything else should come after that. Very bizarre.

0O0

LexieOnRale wrote: »

There's absolutely no defending those parents at all. Have you even heard how nasty they were to him? How can a mother start a sentence with "I love you but" and then go on to disown her own child because of who he prefers sexually? What's that got to do with her? What her son likes in bed? She's going on about the word of god. I'm pretty sure God wouldn't disown his child for being true to themselves.

And all that aside, she attacked him, and his dad called him queer. That's not how family speak to each other. You'd wonder why they'd expect their son to have any respect for them, if that's the way they speak to him. You don't demand respect, you earn it. And them calling their son a queer and "son of a bitch" isn't exactly something to be respected, either by their son or random people online.

As a parent surely the most important thing is that your child is healthy and happy, everything else should come after that. Very bizarre.

STOP THE PRESSES

Families don't always get on!!! People can be nasty when emotionall!!!

The 'child' just wanted to live his homosexual life & still live & be supported in his devout Christian home - who would have guessed there'd be a bit of controversy?

I don't think that it was solely the fact that he was gay, that made his family want to confront his behaviour.

I know quite a few guys who have 'came out' and that liberation can alter their personalities and some feel that they have to live up the expectation of the stereotypical gay.

Just one example, a bloke I went to school with all my life & quite good mates, went from being a little effeminate to FULL on fairy. Was actually bizarre, his voice went up half an octave, every conversation centred on LGBT and if you didn't agree with anything you were a homophobe.
He calmed down & kinda got it out if his system about 18 months later but he lost a lot of friends (not because he was gay!!) because he completely changed & felt entitled & superior because of his shiny novelty status.

Not saying this is the same thing, but does ANYONE except his family, know what's been going on & what home life has been like?

People have been kicked out of the house for less - everyone come on & let's start fundraising!

krudler

0O0 wrote: »

STOP THE PRESSES

Families don't always get on!!! People can be nasty when emotionall!!!

The 'child' just wanted to live his homosexual life & still live & be supported in his devout Christian home - who would have guessed there'd be a bit of controversy?

I don't think that it was solely the fact that he was gay, that made his family want to confront his behaviour.

I know quite a few guys who have 'came out' and that liberation can alter their personalities and some feel that they have to live up the expectation of the stereotypical gay.

Just one example, a bloke I went to school with all my life & quite good mates, went from being a little effeminate to FULL on fairy. Was actually bizarre, his voice went up half an octave, every conversation centred on LGBT and if you didn't agree with anything you were a homophobe.
He calmed down & kinda got it out if his system about 18 months later but he lost a lot of friends (not because he was gay!!) because he completely changed & felt entitled & superior because of his shiny novelty status.

Not saying this is the same thing, but does ANYONE except his family, know what's been going on & what home life has been like?

People have been kicked out of the house for less - everyone come on & let's start fundraising!

It's as if he thought his Christian parents might act like...Christians.

What a complete arsehole...

Him being gay is the ONLY reason his mother gives him for asking him to leave. Now if she'd said "you're 20 now maybe it's time you got a place of your own" that'd be a non event. but she does't. She outright says you're choosing to be gay (wrooong) and we dont want people thinking we're ok with that, so get out if you still choose to be gay.

Shakespeare's Sister

caustic 1 wrote: »

So they believe in God, because you may not does that make them wrong?

Well I don't believe in god so I do think they're wrong on that score, but that's not the issue - their belief in god doesn't affect me. Their take on religion (putting down various groups even though it directly contravenes what Jesus taught) does affect people though.

Inanna wrote: »

The Muslim who believes adulterous women should be stoned is only following his beliefs too but I doubt we'd see as many falling over themselves with laboured nuance to say he's right to follow his beliefs.

You can be sure a plethora of people around these parts who defend christian fundamentalism would take a very very different view on the above.

0O0 wrote: »

STOP THE PRESSES

Families don't always get on!!! People can be nasty when emotionall!!!

Always suspicious of people say the above sh-t. And? People should just accept it so, rather than confronting it?

sunflower27

Imagine how he felt all those years keeping quiet about being gay whilst his parents aired their views on homosexuality every time there was a story on it in the news, on TV. You can understand why he says it so defiantly.

krudler

vetinari wrote: »

Hopefully in the long run, the parents will feel remorse and seek forgiveness from their son.
I honestly don't get how anyone can defend them.
You can disagree with someone else's personal beliefs but still not disown that person.

And that's the thing, being gay isn't a belief, it's part of what you are. Beliefs can change over time or having more knowledge or whatever, they're acting like he can just turn off part of his life to suit their beliefs.

0O0

krudler wrote: »

It's as if he thought his Christian parents might act like...Christians.

You mean the same Christianity that teaches that homosexuality is a sin?!

Hate the sin but love the sinner yada yada yada.

I'm not saying that religious nuts are right either NOR have I ever said he deserved to be penalised SOLELY because he's gay - as that would be a disgrace. I think everybody acted appallingly in that video but it only shows a brief glimpse into a very confrontational moment, that nobody has any factual back story on.

Now if it was his "coming out" that he'd videoed & they started attacking him, he should go to the police & make a complaint as that is extremely WRONG beyond all concepts.

But that's not what happened - he was told to get out because of his behaviour incl. the bitching on fb etc etc & whatever else has been going on that's caused a complete breakdown of the relationship.

He's a 20 year old MAN, he'll survive, it's all this babying that's left him feeling entitled to be placed on a pedestal.

qdawg86

0O0 wrote: »

STOP THE PRESSES

Families don't always get on!!! People can be nasty when emotionall!!!

The 'child' just wanted to live his homosexual life & still live & be supported in his devout Christian home - who would have guessed there'd be a bit of controversy?

I don't think that it was solely the fact that he was gay, that made his family want to confront his behaviour.

I know quite a few guys who have 'came out' and that liberation can alter their personalities and some feel that they have to live up the expectation of the stereotypical gay.

Just one example, a bloke I went to school with all my life & quite good mates, went from being a little effeminate to FULL on fairy. Was actually bizarre, his voice went up half an octave, every conversation centred on LGBT and if you didn't agree with anything you were a homophobe.
He calmed down & kinda got it out if his system about 18 months later but he lost a lot of friends (not because he was gay!!) because he completely changed & felt entitled & superior because of his shiny novelty status.

Not saying this is the same thing, but does ANYONE except his family, know what's been going on & what home life has been like?

People have been kicked out of the house for less - everyone come on & let's start fundraising!

He lost all his 'mates' did he ?

Well to be honest, from what you've said about him......its the best thing that'll ever happen to the guy.

krudler

0O0 wrote: »

You mean the same Christianity that teaches that homosexuality is a sin?!

Hate the sin but love the sinner yada yada yada.

I'm not saying that religious nuts are right either NOR have I ever said he deserved to be penalised SOLELY because he's gay - as that would be a disgrace. I think everybody acted appallingly in that video but it only shows a brief glimpse into a very confrontational moment, that nobody has any factual back story on.

Now if it was his "coming out" that he'd videoed & they started attacking him, he should go to the police & make a complaint as that is extremely WRONG beyond all concepts.

But that's not what happened - he was told to get out because of his behaviour incl. the bitching on fb etc etc & whatever else has been going on that's caused a complete breakdown of the relationship.

He's a 20 year old MAN, he'll survive, it's all this babying that's left him feeling entitled to be placed on a pedestal.

The Old Testament demonises homosexuality, along with eating shellfish, planting crops in the same field, mixing threads in clothes and all sorts of other silly nonsense we no longer think applies to modern culture. But so called Christians ignore all that and still latch onto the "gay people are an abomination" bit and ignore the "love thy neighbour" part that Jesus was going on about. Jesus has a bigger problem with rich people than gays in the New Testament.

My biggest question has always been that if God, especially angry Old Testament God has such a problem with gay people...why did he make them gay? If he has a plan for us all then being gay is part of his plan surely? Why would a so called loving God pick a section of the humans he created and leave them have a life of "sinful" behaviour and condemntation? then expect their undying love and thanks for this? G'way.

Czarcasm

krudler wrote: »

It's as if he thought his Christian parents might act like...Christians.

What a complete arsehole...

No. He expected his opinion based on science is the only valid opinion and that his parents opinion based on their religious beliefs counted for nothing.

That might be popular among some internet circles and might gain him respect on the internet (here's a clip me pwning my religious parents, lolz, I'm so clever!), but he knew damn well it was never gonna fly with his parents. He didn't give a damn what they thought, and he knew what he was at recording the incident.

A complete arsehole is a fairly apt description of his attitude and his behaviour.

Him being gay is the ONLY reason his mother gives him for asking him to leave. Now if she'd said "you're 20 now maybe it's time you got a place of your own" that'd be a non event. but she does't. She outright says you're choosing to be gay (wrooong) and we dont want people thinking we're ok with that, so get out if you still choose to be gay.

Of course his parents were wrong, and completely ignorant of science, and were basing their opinion on their religious beliefs, and they were completely wrong in their concern more for what their neighbours thought than their own son, but you know what's coming, right?

It's their house! It's their home. They have their son telling them that despite having brought him up for the last 20 years, that counts for nothing. If you're going to tell your parents that they're the people in the wrong, and they're the people who don't know what they're talking about, then you already know that staying under their roof, in their home, is a non-runner.

Shakespeare's Sister

krudler wrote: »

The Old Testament demonises homosexuality, along with eating shellfish, planting crops in the same field, mixing threads in clothes and all sorts of other silly nonsense we no longer think applies to modern culture. But so called Christians ignore all that and still latch onto the "gay people are an abomination" bit and ignore the "love thy neighbour" part that Jesus was going on about. Jesus has a bigger problem with rich people than gays in the New Testament.

Precisely. Some "christians" would disgust him, and they in turn would just deem him a PC hippy.

My biggest question has always been that if God, especially angry Old Testament God has such a problem with gay people...why did he make them gay? If he has a plan for us all then being gay is part of his plan surely? Why would a so called loving God pick a section of the humans he created and leave them have a life of "sinful" behaviour and condemntation? then expect their undying love and thanks for this? G'way.

The answer you'll get to that is "God didn't make them that way - they chose it". Because of course people totally just choose to fancy/have sex with/have relationships with/settle down with people they don't actually fancy... for the craic like. And to get attention.
Makes total sense also to "choose" to experience demonisation in some societies. Those gays in Uganda are obviously just trying to be different.

krudler

Czarcasm wrote: »

No. He expected his opinion based on science is the only valid opinion and that his parents opinion based on their religious beliefs counted for nothing.

That might be popular among some internet circles and might gain him respect on the internet (here's a clip me pwning my religious parents, lolz, I'm so clever!), but he knew damn well it was never gonna fly with his parents. He didn't give a damn what they thought, and he knew what he was at recording the incident.

A complete arsehole is a fairly apt description of his attitude and his behaviour.

The mother was the one who went straight for saying she believed in the word of god, he didn't storm in telling them were wrong, he just responded to what she said, and he was correct.
If this was a video of parents kicking their son out for correcting them saying the earth was flat when we know it's not and science can prove that. Would you still call him an arsehole? No matter what way you try to justify it, the parents are disowning their own son simply for who he is.

qo2cj1dsne8y4k

She says she always knew from when he was little that he was gay. So -
1. Why is that just an issue now?
2. If he was gay from an early age, clearly he didn't have much of a choice in the matter.

Czarcasm

krudler wrote: »

The mother was the one who went straight for saying she believed in the word of god, he didn't storm in telling them were wrong, he just responded to what she said, and he was correct.

Ahh here, come on now krudler! Do you honestly think their son wasn't aware of his parents religious beliefs? This wasn't a 'coming out' video (It was the YouTube clip was incorrectly titled, not the thread title, my mistake OP), their son knew well this was supposed to be a "family intervention" to "stop him being gay". Of course I'm aware of how stupid that sounds from our perspective, but from his parents perspective, it makes perfect sense.

If this was a video of parents kicking their son out for correcting them saying the earth was flat when we know it's not and science can prove that. Would you still call him an arsehole? No matter what way you try to justify it, the parents are disowning their own son simply for who he is.

Yes I would. They're his parents, it's their home, it's their house. It's not his house, and if he doesn't agree with his parents views, he's old enough to move out. In fact he had already planned to move out into his mothers basement (his stepmother is also in the video, but it's not clear from media reports who he's referring to or talking to because we have the grandmother, stepmother, the mother, and of course the father), but she obviously changed her mind.

Of course the parents are disowning their son for who he is, not just what he is, which is a man who is gay. Being gay doesn't define a person. They're a whole person besides just their sexual orientation. His attitude towards his parents is obviously part of the reason why things went as badly as they did, when things could have gone so much better if their son had even attempted to show some understanding of his parents religious beliefs.

He is the person who had more to gain by compromising than his parents had. He chose not to, and for that his parents disowned him. It's not nice, but that's some people for you.

caustic 1

If you visited a Buddhist temple or a Mosque you are expected to be respectful and aware of the rules when entering what they consider to be a very sacred place. You respect their beliefs even if you don't agree with them. I cannot see how this is any different. It is their belief, as his being gay is his. There is no respect on either side. How both parties handled it was totally wrong and now because of the publicity received will find it difficult to salvage any relationship, whilst when angry now they won't want to, but when things settle and they age, they will more than likely have regret.

Shakespeare's Sister

caustic 1 wrote: »

If you visited a Buddhist temple or a Mosque you are expected to be respectful and aware of the rules when entering what they consider to be a very sacred place. You respect their beliefs even if you don't agree with them. I cannot see how this is any different.

Ah I don't believe you "cannot" see how this is any different. Of course it is. Visiting a christian church would be analogous to the above, not taking issue with someone's toxic and incorrect interpretation of christianity.

It is their belief, as his being gay is his.

Being gay is a belief?

Why are you so obsessed with "respecting" beliefs that put down other people? It's like you're just trying to go against the grain.
There's absolutely nothing wrong with not respecting views that put down other people - despite the reverse political correctness fashion that's so in vogue.

caustic 1

I try to see things from all angles because I believe everything is not always cut and dry. I have worded it incorrectly excuse me being gay is not a belief.

I also don't believe I am obsessed at all.

Is it not the point that they are against him because he is gay and their religion disagrees with this?

Shakespeare's Sister

caustic 1 wrote: »

I try to see things from all angles because I believe everything is not always cut and dry. I have worded it incorrectly excuse me being gay is not a belief.

I also don't believe I am obsessed at all.

Is it not the point that they are against him because he is gay and their religion disagrees with this?

And as a result they're demonising him. I don't have a problem with religious people who don't demonise people, even if I don't share their religious beliefs - the issue is not the being religious, it's the putting down of gay people.

caustic 1

Because it's goes against what they believe in the same vein that you believe it's not.
They are putting him down because of their religion, or their interpretation of it.

B.A._Baracus

Czarcasm vs krudler.
Who will win. Tune in later.

Shakespeare's Sister

caustic 1 wrote: »

Because it's goes against what they believe in the same vein that you believe it's not.
They are putting him down because of their religion, or their interpretation of it.

But there are christians who don't demonise gay people. So no, we shouldn't have to respect the guy's parents' beliefs. If all beliefs should be respected, where do you draw the line?

Czarcasm

B.A._Baracus wrote: »

Czarcasm vs krudler.
Who will win. Tune in later.

That's just it B.A., there are no winners here, only losers - the guy loses out on a relationship with his parents, and the parents lose out on a relationship with their son, both because of their own stupid pride, stubbornness, unwillingness to compromise on their principles, intolerance of each other, and unwillingness to show each other any understanding.

They're human beings with two different ideologies, and because none of them was willing to give an inch, they all lost out. It's embarrassing and shameful all round really tbh.

Czarcasm

Shakespeare's Sister wrote: »

But there are christians who don't demonise gay people. So no, we shouldn't have to respect the guy's parents' beliefs. If all beliefs should be respected, where do you draw the line?

That's easy - draw the line when one person thinks they have a right to foist their beliefs on another person. How much you're willing to compromise on that line is down to how willing you are prepared to show another person understanding, with the aim of finding a way to get along together.

In this case, neither party was willing to compromise, because neither party was willing to respect the other person - the parents weren't willing to respect their son, and the son wasn't willing to respect his parents.

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Czarcasm wrote: »

That's just it B.A., there are no winners here, only losers - the guy loses out on a relationship with his parents, and the parents lose out on a relationship with their son, both because of their own stupid pride, stubbornness, unwillingness to compromise on their principles, intolerance of each other, and unwillingness to show each other any understanding.

They're human beings with two different ideologies, and because none of them was willing to give an inch, they all lost out. It's embarrassing and shameful all round really tbh.

Principles? Ide-****in-ologies?

You've got to be kidding me.

Let me go out here now, shake my old principles out, sort out my ideologies and come back in gay, with a gay partner, to show my Momma, that I'm a good boy.

That's the equivalent of what you're expecting of this young man?

caustic 1

Shakespeare's Sister wrote: »

But there are christians who don't demonise gay people. So no, we shouldn't have to respect the guy's parents' beliefs. If all beliefs should be respected, where do you draw the line?

Of course there are. Just because you respect someones beliefs does not mean you agree with them. It means you tolerate other cultures, religions, it's called respect. I have said before I don't agree with how they handled the situation but I can see where they are coming from. They vehemently believe they are right that their son is more than likely dammed to hell because of his sinful actions. That has more than likely been beat into them from the moment they were born. It's what they believe. Does it make them bad people, I don't know. My own personal view it makes them very narrow minded and nothing will change that. They told him there take on it, (as if he didn't already know how they would react, you don't grow up in that environment and have no clue how it would play out).

Everyone has their own views and beliefs. You seem to find that shocking because they don't agree with yours. Is that not narrow minded of you?

Shakespeare's Sister

caustic 1 wrote: »

Of course there are. Just because you respect someones beliefs does not mean you agree with them. It means you tolerate other cultures, religions, it's called respect. I have said before I don't agree with how they handled the situation but I can see where they are coming from. They vehemently believe they are right that their son is more than likely dammed to hell because of his sinful actions. That has more than likely been beat into them from the moment they were born. It's what they believe. Does it make them bad people, I don't know. My own personal view it makes them very narrow minded and nothing will change that. They told him there take on it, (as if he didn't already know how they would react, you don't grow up in that environment and have no clue how it would play out).

Everyone has their own views and beliefs. You seem to find that shocking because they don't agree with yours. Is that not narrow minded of you?

Again, I don't see why beliefs that cause others to suffer should be respected just because they're beliefs.
A belief that women should be stoned to death - should that be respected?

caustic 1

Shakespeare's Sister wrote: »

Again, I don't see why beliefs that cause others to suffer should be respected just because they're beliefs.
A belief that women should be stoned to death - should that be respected?

I don't believe so no. But that is my opinion. Those doing the stoning would beg to differ.

Czarcasm

Export wrote: »

Principles? Ide-****in-ologies?

You've got to be kidding me.

No, no I'm not kidding you. I'm actually bending over backwards to try and understand where you're coming from, but you're not even making any attempt to meet me any bit of the way. It looks like you're just throwing out the first thing that comes into your head in an attempt to sound clever and you're unwilling to make any attempt to put any thought or effort into your posts, which is why we end up with this -

Let me go out here now, shake my old principles out, sort out my ideologies and come back in gay, with a gay partner, to show my Momma, that I'm a good boy.

That's the equivalent of what you're expecting of this young man?

I have no idea what this means! Before you waste another "Think about it and it'll come to you", wouldn't it just be easier all round if you just helped me out with a quick explanation if you actually gave a damn about helping me understand where you're coming from rather than trying to sound clever and play to the crowd for a few pissy and meaningless, miserable thanks?

Which means more to you - helping more people understand you, or validation from those people who already do?

If I'm willing and trying to make the effort, would it really kill you to try and help me understand rather than continuing to talk over my head?

Shakespeare's Sister

caustic 1 wrote: »

I don't believe so no. But that is my opinion. Those doing the stoning would beg to differ.

Indeed. But their view doesn't deserve respect.

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YOU ARE ASKING SOMEONE TO CHANGE THEIR SEXUALITY TO DISPLAY RESPECT FOR THEIR PARENTS.

Is that clear enough for you?

dark crystal

Czarcasm wrote: »

That's easy - draw the line when one person thinks they have a right to foist their beliefs on another person. How much you're willing to compromise on that line is down to how willing you are prepared to show another person understanding, with the aim of finding a way to get along together.

In this case, neither party was willing to compromise, because neither party was willing to respect the other person - the parents weren't willing to respect their son, and the son wasn't willing to respect his parents.

You can't compromise on who you're attracted to. How does anyone have the right to tell you to stop being gay or straight? That isn't a choice.