Making Money in Beef!

Farmer Pudsey

<snip>- Deleted by OP

TBH NBF has a totally different setup, he bought a slightly more expensive animal. NBF was lower stocked and working an extensive system. OP is working a slightly different system however he is taking a lot of P&K off his land. He addmited himself that grass growth was slowing down himself.

Willfarmer, you are trying to play the market, I do as well, I have gone on a different tack to you this year. Both OP and NBF are totally different farmers to us. Both have no housing( been there done that) and little machinery,(I think NBF has a small tractor) both have systems based on trying to retain as much SFP as possible. Mine is based on tax efficiency and high out put.

Kovu

Guys, no more guessing about people please.
I don't want to disrupt this thread any further.

If you have a valid issue, report it or PM one of the mods.

.Kovu.

old deere

AP2014 wrote: »

Look I gave an opinion on my system and that money can be made. No I certainly don't think they should be quiet about it but how many years have beef farmers been blaming larry for prices? As far as I can remember anyway.

Why are beef farmers then jumping through hoops for larry and the likes? The dogs on the street know qa and under 30 months is a way for farmers to control price/cattle flow and nothing else. You think consumers give a damn about this?

For heavens sake weren't they using horse up until last year, yet we try and produce the ideal beast under 30 months and qa. Crazy stuff.

In the short term, lads stop investing every bloody penny ye have to meet these targets and have factories and supermarkets laugh at us and walk on us. Hold back the cattle. Be more productive then tieing up a few shopping trollies outside lidl or somewhere in ballinasloe. What will this achieve?

you dont own an airline by any chance do you ? that you micheal o, leary ?

Sam Kade

I guess we won't be seeing those sales dockets :rolleyes:

Panch18

Didnt read through the entire thread but went back and read the original post and he is certainly not doing anything extraordinary at all

when his good SFP is removed he is making 6k which is 200 per acre - as I said on the other beef thread thats what lads should be expecting to make, after all he'd make the same renting it out and still have his SFP

we were on summer grazing on a much larger scale until recently and were usually making the 200 an acre mark, we were not making any bales though and the op seems to have a lot of bales for little fertiliser use which is unsustainable without increasing fertiliser costs

I've said it on here before and ill say it again, in beef it doesnt matter how intensive or extensive you are, its all the same. There is a ceiling to the amount of profit you can make, it makes me laugh when I see the dairy lads come onto beef threads saying reseed, grow more grass, etc etc, they haven't a clue about beef and anybody on here who would follow their advise is on a dangerous and expensive path. We've been in the beef game on a decent scale for a long time and I can say that we have looked at and costed every single system, and nowadays the aim of every beef farmer should be to spend as little as possible to retsin as much as you can

another thing to bear in mind is that the op got his land and SFP for free, he has a job which is supplying his income. So basically the few quid he makes from the land is a bonus and he thinks its great, which it is as a bonus. BUT if you look at it as an investment the return is very very poor. 200 an acre with land costing 10-12k per acre is between 1.5-2% return which is pathetic, you'd get that in the bank even at historically low interest rates. So while the extra few quid is great its a complete waste of time for actual farmers

FarmerDougal

, it makes me laugh when I see the dairy lads come onto beef threads saying reseed, grow more grass, etc etc, they haven't a clue about beef and anybody on here who would follow their advise is on a dangerous and expensive path.

+1

Miname

Panch18 wrote: »

Didnt read through the entire thread but went back and read the original post and he is certainly not doing anything extraordinary at all

when his good SFP is removed he is making 6k which is 200 per acre - as I said on the other beef thread thats what lads should be expecting to make, after all he'd make the same renting it out and still have his SFP

we were on summer grazing on a much larger scale until recently and were usually making the 200 an acre mark, we were not making any bales though and the op seems to have a lot of bales for little fertiliser use which is unsustainable without increasing fertiliser costs

I've said it on here before and ill say it again, in beef it doesnt matter how intensive or extensive you are, its all the same. There is a ceiling to the amount of profit you can make, it makes me laugh when I see the dairy lads come onto beef threads saying reseed, grow more grass, etc etc, they haven't a clue about beef and anybody on here who would follow their advise is on a dangerous and expensive path. We've been in the beef game on a decent scale for a long time and I can say that we have looked at and costed every single system, and nowadays the aim of every beef farmer should be to spend as little as possible to retsin as much as you can

another thing to bear in mind is that the op got his land and SFP for free, he has a job which is supplying his income. So basically the few quid he makes from the land is a bonus and he thinks its great, which it is as a bonus. BUT if you look at it as an investment the return is very very poor. 200 an acre with land costing 10-12k per acre is between 1.5-2% return which is pathetic, you'd get that in the bank even at historically low interest rates. So while the extra few quid is great its a complete waste of time for actual farmers

In fairness thats a bit simplistic. Theres always areas of dairying that can be transferred across and utilised in beef. As for a ceiling thats just set as low as you choose it to be. If that means going into buying, filling sheds and killing or rearing sucklers, there are various options within each system even if they are limited. look at willie treacy for example and the progress hes making.

Muckit

Miname wrote: »

As for a ceiling thats just set as low as you choose it to be.

The ceiling is beef price. Can people not see that? We have no direct control over this

Panch18

Miname wrote: »

In fairness thats a bit simplistic. Theres always areas of dairying that can be transferred across and utilised in beef. As for a ceiling thats just set as low as you choose it to be. If that means going into buying, filling sheds and killing or rearing sucklers, there are various options within each system even if they are limited. look at willie treacy for example and the progress hes making.

Have no idea who willie treacy is but we have dairy as well as beef and its chalk and cheese

Look for beef you can do all the reseeding you want, spread as much fertliser as you want, sheds etc etc etc the list of spending is endless. However at the end of the day there is no extra money out if it, often a lot more headaches with loans and much more bills to repay

with regards to ceiling im talking actual profit per acre, not turnover or kg of beef per acre or any other bullxxxx return thst might be peddled about to make fellas think they are doing well. And there is most definately a ceiling to profit per acre

Sam Kade

I had a dealer buying cattle for me one time and he kept saying that I should reseed the whole farm to get better performance on the cattle. I left it in one ear and out the other If only I could get the same performance from old grass as the op.

J DEERE

The quality of discussion and posters in the this forum has really hit the floor in the last couple of years. Too many know it alls here now which wasn't the case when I first joined. Mods should have closed this long ago, it's getting farcical

Reggie.

J DEERE wrote: »

The quality of discussion and posters in the this forum has really hit the floor in the last couple of years. Too many know it alls here now which wasn't the case when I first joined. Mods should have closed this long ago, it's getting farcical

+1

rangler1

J DEERE wrote: »

The quality of discussion and posters in the this forum has really hit the floor in the last couple of years. Too many know it alls here now which wasn't the case when I first joined. Mods should have closed this long ago, it's getting farcical

This is like sheebadogs method of leaving, rise everyone and then close before anyone can say wtf

J DEERE

rangler1 wrote: »

This is like sheebadogs method of leaving, rise everyone and then close before anyone can say wtf

Did I leave?

epfff

J DEERE wrote: »

Did I leave?

No but if you not happy here it would be the obivious option
I still would love to be able to grow mad amounts of grass and then find a sac to over pay me for it
Hay making 15 a bale in shed silage in my yard at 15 I supplied wrap month ago yet some willing to pay 12 and pay a contractor

rangler1

J DEERE wrote: »

Did I leave?

No but you tried to insult people, not that it makes a lot of difference but were you referring to the thread or the whole lot of us

greysides

rangler1 wrote: »

No but you tried to insult people, not that it makes a lot of difference but were you referring to the thread or the whole lot of us

[mod]Okay, let's leave it at that please. This is a non-productive diversion.[/mod]

on the river

on the river wrote: »

Op I admire your confessed honesty and your simple farming approach. It's great to see small farms becoming somewhat viable.
However some of your figures are conflicting and don't seem to add up.

Also do you reinvest any alleged profit back into this enterprise.?
Will you continue this philosophy in the long term?

#AHEM #

AP2014

Lads I am out and about enjoying the wkd but will reply to all questions tonight or tomorrow. Please leave other users out of this. Do ye guys need my name and address now. Way too many keyboard warriors on here, lads with one hand down their yfronts and the other on the keyboard. Its a wkd get out ffs.

AP2014

Lads I am out and about enjoying the wkd but will reply to all questions tonight or tomorrow. Please leave other users out of this. Do ye guys need my name and address now. Way too many keyboard warriors on here, lads with one hand down their yfronts and the other on the keyboard. Its a wkd get out ffs.

J DEERE

rangler1 wrote: »

No but you tried to insult people, not that it makes a lot of difference but were you referring to the thread or the whole lot of us

Not directed at everyone. Read through the thread and judge who is actually engaging in productive discussion as opposed to those are ridiculing and making smart comments. It's not the first thread I've seen this on

rangler1

J DEERE wrote: »

Not directed at everyone. Read through the thread and judge who is actually engaging in productive discussion as opposed to those are ridiculing and making smart comments. It's not the first thread I've seen this on

Sorry you said the forum which is farming and forestry and you referred to a couple of years, which really isn't this thread.
Ok greysides dropping it now

AP2014

whupdedo wrote: »

From reading and following this thread its apparent that some farmers can't and won't accept what appears to be very valid points about a system that works for him, the op has repeatedly answered some very stupid and ridiculous questions by posters bent on ridiculing his farming practises,which seem to work for him

It emphasises the view by the ordinary people that most farmers are perfectly happy with sitting back and complaining rather than changing what is a bad practise, after all its easier to sit back and keep doing what they've done badly all their life than trying to change a broken system

Well done op for trying something different and seeming to make a (small) success of it, don't let the begrudging get to you, they'll be still at the same broken farm model in ten years time afraid and unwilling to change

Cheers.

Muckit wrote: »

I don't think there is anyone here that is begrudging the OP the money he makes on his farm. The best of good luck to him.

I agree with a lot of his points and indeed l think he may have the ultimate solution for my own personal situation.

However I don't feel he has a solution for the beef crisis in general.

And he should be well able to take a bit of slack when his own posts have been very confrontational from the get go.

I don't think he's come on here to make friends and l'll be surprised if he/she adds positively to this forum outside of this tread. Same goes for you whupdedo.

Never claimed to have a solution to beef crisis. No problem taking slack keep it coming lads. As I said previously some of it is keyboard warrior stuff with lads with onr hand down the y-fronts and the other on the keyboard. I'll try and add to the forum the best I can. Seems you have little faith in me. I certainly didn't come to an internet forum to makes. Maybe a problem with some of the lads here.

TUBBY wrote: »

Whupde. If you read the thread, some farmers myself included congratulated the OP on his success earlier in the thread before a lot of questions were asked and answered. This is a grand system for a pastime type situation but you would not rely on it solely. For the OP to make money, there has to be some loser in the chain as current prices can't make a living for three people who would own each of his cattle over their lifetime.
I am basing this On the independent today where there was an article on the beef protests etc it showed that the farmer gets 40% of value of animal while processor, supermarket get 60%.

As I said I congratulated the OP and a good news story is great but having read the whole thread OBJECTIVELY there are some holes in the ops rationale. It would be very difficult get the weight gain he is claiming when some of the cattle are only stored from June to october where you would be looking at 1.6kg per day gain over that time on old ground to make his average gain. Also, taking 250 bales off a small parcel of old ley ground would leave cattle awfully tight on grass. This would have been particularly true in 2013 when people who winter cattle had them in til June in some cases such was the shortage of grass.
The fact that there is a miserable bastards farmer thread on after hours which you began and at the same time a very new poster comes on telling how they are doing very well would have many suspicious. The fact that you are now posting here too having never seen anything from you before may add to that suspicion. Just saying....

Who said old ground? And it's mainly March to Nov. If I can't put 200kg on and make an avg of €200 I reckon I should give up.

old deere wrote: »

you dont own an airline by any chance do you ? that you micheal o, leary ?

Afraid now.

Sam Kade wrote: »

I guess we won't be seeing those sales dockets :rolleyes:

FFS let me sell them in Nov. Jesus it's 200avg I said from March to Nov. If I or anyone can't make this should we all not give up?

Panch18 wrote: »

Didnt read through the entire thread but went back and read the original post and he is certainly not doing anything extraordinary at all

when his good SFP is removed he is making 6k which is 200 per acre - as I said on the other beef thread thats what lads should be expecting to make, after all he'd make the same renting it out and still have his SFP

we were on summer grazing on a much larger scale until recently and were usually making the 200 an acre mark, we were not making any bales though and the op seems to have a lot of bales for little fertiliser use which is unsustainable without increasing fertiliser costs

I've said it on here before and ill say it again, in beef it doesnt matter how intensive or extensive you are, its all the same. There is a ceiling to the amount of profit you can make, it makes me laugh when I see the dairy lads come onto beef threads saying reseed, grow more grass, etc etc, they haven't a clue about beef and anybody on here who would follow their advise is on a dangerous and expensive path. We've been in the beef game on a decent scale for a long time and I can say that we have looked at and costed every single system, and nowadays the aim of every beef farmer should be to spend as little as possible to retsin as much as you can

another thing to bear in mind is that the op got his land and SFP for free, he has a job which is supplying his income. So basically the few quid he makes from the land is a bonus and he thinks its great, which it is as a bonus. BUT if you look at it as an investment the return is very very poor. 200 an acre with land costing 10-12k per acre is between 1.5-2% return which is pathetic, you'd get that in the bank even at historically low interest rates. So while the extra few quid is great its a complete waste of time for actual farmers

Spot on.

FarmerDougal wrote: »

, it makes me laugh when I see the dairy lads come onto beef threads saying reseed, grow more grass, etc etc, they haven't a clue about beef and anybody on here who would follow their advise is on a dangerous and expensive path.

+1

I am freighted by the advice beef lads are getting from teagasc. If I see one out measuring grass he'll get a toe in the hole.

Sam Kade wrote: »

I had a dealer buying cattle for me one time and he kept saying that I should reseed the whole farm to get better performance on the cattle. I left it in one ear and out the other If only I could get the same performance from old grass as the op.

Who said old grass? Some is not all. See comment above re advice.

J DEERE wrote: »

The quality of discussion and posters in the this forum has really hit the floor in the last couple of years. Too many know it alls here now which wasn't the case when I first joined. Mods should have closed this long ago, it's getting farcical

Back clapping and down pub talk from some regulars.

epfff wrote: »

No but if you not happy here it would be the obivious option
I still would love to be able to grow mad amounts of grass and then find a sac to over pay me for it
Hay making 15 a bale in shed silage in my yard at 15 I supplied wrap month ago yet some willing to pay 12 and pay a contractor

The sac that pays me €12 this year has also paid it in bad years. I didn't screw him then when other lads wanted it. What price should I sell for do you think would be fair? If I am screwing him I will change it.

Greengrass1

Dry stock farmers that measure grass are fools?

TUBBY

AP2014 wrote: »

Who said old ground? And it's mainly March to Nov. If I can't put 200kg on and make an avg of €200 I reckon I should give up.

by old ground, i mean that it hasnt been reseeded and also not kept at optimum pH or heavily fertilized. these are all things you have said so i wasnt insulting your land so please don't take offence.

I wouldn't expect 10 bales per acre off it due to the above. Even Allowing 10 bales per acre, this means that 25 acres of your ground is not in the grazing cycle for 2 months over the season. Even though you stagger the cuts etc, that is an awful lot of land to lose when your base is 30 acres (most of this is from memory so apologies if slightly off). With little fertilizer use and no mention of clover, it would be hard build up a bank of grass Imo.
i think you said 200-250kg average per year at least per animal but you also said in later posts that you buy half in march and half in june-ish but it was july one year. Therefore it isn't mainly march to nov as you state. So it is not 200-250kg over a grazing season as you don't buy all in march. If there is late growth such as in 2013, it is brilliant to meet your targets.
Combining the staggered nature of your purchases with the loss of a sizeable proportion of your land for silage, then yes 250kg is very very impressive over a relatively short grazing season.

please don't feel the need to defend your system as i am not interrogating you, just stating why i said what you had quoted from me. Again, well done on your figures and i wish mine stacked up the same.

Muckit

Tubby you and many more regular posters with a brain know the figures don't stack up, even under the most favourable of conditions.


Meanwhile mods stand back and let a fly by night come in and try rise the heads of everyone.

A little bit of respect wouldn't go astray.

TUBBY

Muckit wrote: »

Tubby you and many more regular posters with a brain know the figures don't stack up, even under the most favourable of conditions.


Meanwhile mods stand back and let a fly by night come in and try rise the heads of everyone.

A little bit of respect wouldn't go astray.

Careful Muckit, i feel a black card coming
you cant go accusing me of having a brain....

on the topic of making a few quid at drystock, is anyone going to the better farmers talks this week around the country. Feedback from that would be worthwhile for us to maybe improve things collectively.

i hoping to head to Chris McCarthys so will report back.

Sam Kade

Muckit wrote: »

Tubby you and many more regular posters with a brain know the figures don't stack up, even under the most favourable of conditions.


Meanwhile mods stand back and let a fly by night come in and try rise the heads of everyone.

A little bit of respect wouldn't go astray.

I can't understand how the op and his sidekick Tonto alias whupdedo are still on here. This thread should have been closed long ago.

AP2014

TUBBY wrote: »

by old ground, i mean that it hasnt been reseeded and also not kept at optimum pH or heavily fertilized. these are all things you have said so i wasnt insulting your land so please don't take offence.

I wouldn't expect 10 bales per acre off it due to the above. Even Allowing 10 bales per acre, this means that 25 acres of your ground is not in the grazing cycle for 2 months over the season. Even though you stagger the cuts etc, that is an awful lot of land to lose when your base is 30 acres (most of this is from memory so apologies if slightly off). With little fertilizer use and no mention of clover, it would be hard build up a bank of grass Imo.
i think you said 200-250kg average per year at least per animal but you also said in later posts that you buy half in march and half in june-ish but it was july one year. Therefore it isn't mainly march to nov as you state. So it is not 200-250kg over a grazing season as you don't buy all in march. If there is late growth such as in 2013, it is brilliant to meet your targets.
Combining the staggered nature of your purchases with the loss of a sizeable proportion of your land for silage, then yes 250kg is very very impressive over a relatively short grazing season.

please don't feel the need to defend your system as i am not interrogating you, just stating why i said what you had quoted from me. Again, well done on your figures and i wish mine stacked up the same.

An average of 200kg and my average profit is €200. If this can't be done what sort of averages are lads making?

Tokyo

Muckit wrote: »

Tubby you and many more regular posters with a brain know the figures don't stack up, even under the most favourable of conditions.

Meanwhile mods stand back and let a fly by night come in and try rise the heads of everyone.

Not entirely true. moderators are very much following the thread - I can see that one mod has contributed to it. However, put simply, it's not our job (and wouldn't be right of us to do so) to close or delete threads just because we don't agree with the OP's point of view.

If the OP's figures don't add up, then argue the point as you and others have been doing - debate, as long as it doesn't descend into shít-slinging, is healthy And I think it's been an interesting thread for many people following it so far.

AP2014

Muckit wrote: »

Tubby you and many more regular posters with a brain know the figures don't stack up, even under the most favourable of conditions.


Meanwhile mods stand back and let a fly by night come in and try rise the heads of everyone.

A little bit of respect wouldn't go astray.

Sam Kade wrote: »

I can't understand how the op and his sidekick Tonto alias whupdedo are still on here. This thread should have been closed long ago.

FFS lads can ye not take a different opinion on board. What are ye're systems? profit or loss?

None of this making very little rubbish. I never heard of a lad losing at the races. It's always sure I broke even.

I never heard of whupdedo until yesterday. I think the sidekick and buddy system exists on this forum but I ain't part of it. That's why I think the forum isn't as progressive as it should be. As other posters have claimed here.

AP2014

mike_ie wrote: »

Not entirely true. moderators are very much following the thread - I can see that one mod has contributed to it. However, put simply, it's not our job (and wouldn't be right of us to do so) to close or delete threads just because we don't agree with the OP's point of view.

If the OP's figures don't add up, then argue the point as you and others have been doing - debate, as long as it doesn't descend into shít-slinging, is healthy And I think it's been an interesting thread for many people following it so far.

Someone talking sense.

TUBBY

AP2014 wrote: »

An average of 200kg and my average profit is €200. If this can't be done what sort of averages are lads making?

from the profit monitor figures for non breeding cattle farms, you would be in top third easily. A lot are eating into their SFP in last years figures where store prices were high in spring and finished prices, forward store prices low in autumn thus reducing margin significantly.

Sam Kade

AP2014 wrote: »

Someone talking sense.

That's for sure

rangler1

TUBBY wrote: »

from the profit monitor figures for non breeding cattle farms, you would be in top third easily. A lot are eating into their SFP in last years figures where store prices were high in spring and finished prices, forward store prices low in autumn thus reducing margin significantly.

Have a similar farmer beside me, rents land for silage his system is 100kg/18.6.12/ acre, cuts silage in july, grazes the aftergrass.......5yrs later, same system but doesn't get a crop till august, all weeds and then no aftergrass, land belongs to someone that doesn't live locally.
He started in another nice field be side me last year, cutting silage...was wondering, won't be long till the two fields look the same.
Should be a law against it, and people wonder why us oldies don't lease out our farms

TITANIUM.

rangler1 wrote: »

Have a similar farmer beside me, rents land for silage his system is 100kg/18.6.12/ acre, cuts silage in july, grazes the aftergrass.......5yrs later, same system but doesn't get a crop till august, all weeds and then no aftergrass, land belongs to someone that doesn't live locally.
He started in another nice field be side me last year, cutting silage...was wondering, won't be long till the two fields look the same.
Should be a law against it, and people wonder why us oldies don't lease out our farms

We've a bit of land taken with over 20 years, take good care of it. But one of the stipulations is no silage. Great piece of ground tho.

Sam Kade

AP2014 wrote: »

FFS let me sell them in Nov. Jesus it's 200avg I said from March to Nov. If I or anyone can't make this should we all not give up?

There's no need to wait until November you can put up last years or the year before, like you mentioned already that you made great profit in 2012. I'd say you'll be long gone from here by November.

rangler1

TITANIUM. wrote: »

We've a bit of land taken with over 20 years, take good care of it. But one of the stipulations is no silage. Great piece of ground tho.

I'm saying it here all the time, people don't realise the nutrients that are going out the gate when you're selling silage

tabby aspreme

Having read the first and last few pages of this thread the one thing that sticks out a mile too me is that high historical sfp payments support totally unviable systems of farming in this country, and no offense to the op he is just working the system

TITANIUM.

rangler1 wrote: »

I'm saying it here all the time, people don't realise the nutrients that are going out the gate when you're selling silage

I agree 100 %. But when you've turned there piece of ground around for them youd think they'd trust you know what your at.

on the river

AP2014 wrote: »

Someone talking sense.

your figures dont stack up. :rolleyes:

could your please provide a true net profit which takes into account all
expenditure. :cool:

AP2014

rangler1 wrote: »

Have a similar farmer beside me, rents land for silage his system is 100kg/18.6.12/ acre, cuts silage in july, grazes the aftergrass.......5yrs later, same system but doesn't get a crop till august, all weeds and then no aftergrass, land belongs to someone that doesn't live locally.
He started in another nice field be side me last year, cutting silage...was wondering, won't be long till the two fields look the same.
Should be a law against it, and people wonder why us oldies don't lease out our farms

Interesting, why the weeds if silage is cut and it's grazed?

AP2014

tabby aspreme wrote: »

Having read the first and last few pages of this thread the one thing that sticks out a mile too me is that high historical sfp payments support totally unviable systems of farming in this country, and no offense to the op he is just working the system

Couldn't agree more....why if there is no money in beef are there so many 4wd tractors around on farms my size? Very difficult for Joe Soap in the public to get his head around this.

AP2014

on the river wrote: »

your figures dont stack up. :rolleyes:

could your please provide a true net profit which takes into account all
expenditure. :cool:

It's I'll go through them again in the morning. Lads are expecting me to spend money on meal, hedge cutting and other non sense. The figures add up and others can make it happen as well.

I will be down abit next year. Going to go and stick on an extra 2 ton 0.7.30 in addition to 18.6.12.

Sam Kade

AP2014 wrote: »

It's I'll go through them again in the morning. Lads are expecting me to spend money on meal, hedge cutting and other non sense. The figures add up and others can make it happen as well.

I will be down abit next year. Going to go and stick on an extra 2 ton 0.7.30 in addition to 18.6.12.

You may as well lime it as well waste of time with fertilizer unless the ph is correct.

rangler1

AP2014 wrote: »

Interesting, why the weeds if silage is cut and it's grazed?

Grass grows very poorly as fertility drops and doesn't provide competition for weeds, might be an exaggeration to say it happened in five years, but it's definitely less than ten, a good proportion of buttercups plantain(blackheads) silverweed in this years silage....more like those wild meadows they encourage in England...zilch feeding value.
About 100 bales on18 acres, cut 3wks now and very poor regowth

Markcheese

Like most systems (and posts) there is good and bad in it ...
The OP isn't running up unnessary bills , and seems to be farming to make a profit from the current system...
Personally my main worry would be farm fertility...once your keeping p and k levels reasonable and same with lime ,+a bit of organic matter. can't go wrong... Hedge cutting,reseeding.paddock,clearing drains,even type of fencing are all personal,wether or if you do them and how much you spend...

Farmer Pudsey

A lot of people here are critical of OP. However Like I stated earlier in this thread he is draining his lanf of nutrients and will have no access to P&K. We also have to understand that he has sold no cattle yet this year. Over last 3 years out and out summer grazing has out preformed other livestock farming.

OP is buying at lower weight to most lads. Most lads buying quality yearlings are heading to 400kgs. OP is back at 300. Often these cattle have compensatary gain. My own opinion is lad baling the silage is getting a lad with an old baler or maybe even his own old baler to bale silage and is getting over 15/acre where a good baler would get 10/acre.

25 light yearlings would have adequate grass on 15 acres from mid April until early July. Last year store were cheap in late March/early April and cattle expensive in the autumn. So a margin of 200/head over costs was achievable. Not sure if this will be the case this year even though gain will be better.

However as years go by unless he resolves his nutrient issue his production levels will drop. To resolve them his costs will rise. His fertliser and lime bill will climb to well over 2K. However his real profit lies in a large SFP will will drop over next 5 years. Finally the stupid idiot that is baling fresh air will not be around for ever either.

When the perfect storm happens to him his will be lucky to retain his SFP that will be around 6-7K

AP2014

Farmer Pudsey wrote: »

A lot of people here are critical of OP. However Like I stated earlier in this thread he is draining his lanf of nutrients and will have no access to P&K. We also have to understand that he has sold no cattle yet this year. Over last 3 years out and out summer grazing has out preformed other livestock farming.

OP is buying at lower weight to most lads. Most lads buying quality yearlings are heading to 400kgs. OP is back at 300. Often these cattle have compensatary gain. My own opinion is lad baling the silage is getting a lad with an old baler or maybe even his own old baler to bale silage and is getting over 15/acre where a good baler would get 10/acre.

25 light yearlings would have adequate grass on 15 acres from mid April until early July. Last year store were cheap in late March/early April and cattle expensive in the autumn. So a margin of 200/head over costs was achievable. Not sure if this will be the case this year even though gain will be better.

However as years go by unless he resolves his nutrient issue his production levels will drop. To resolve them his costs will rise. His fertliser and lime bill will climb to well over 2K. However his real profit lies in a large SFP will will drop over next 5 years. Finally the stupid idiot that is baling fresh air will not be around for ever either.

When the perfect storm happens to him his will be lucky to retain his SFP that will be around 6-7K

Spot on as usual. 300kgs are nothing compared to 400kg yearlings the past few years. Some lads won't even buy them. First couple months mine move on while other lads go backwards. But for some lads its about having the best looking stock at the road side for the neighbours to admire while they lose hand over fist.

Is he a stupid idiot? If I have to spend 2k on fert is he not getting them cheap at €12? His land is saved and he can stock higher.

Not sure the context or meaning of your last sentence about the perfect?

Farmer Pudsey

AP2014 wrote: »

Spot on as usual. 300kgs are nothing compared to 400kg yearlings the past few years. Some lads won't even buy them. First couple months mine move on while other lads go backwards. But for some lads its about having the best looking stock at the road side for the neighbours to admire while they lose hand over fist.

Is he a stupid idiot? If I have to spend 2k on fert is he not getting them cheap at €12? His land is saved and he can stock higher.

Not sure the context or meaning of your last sentence about the perfect?

My point about a perfect storm is if lad buying your bales leaves and next lad wilts silage a day or two longer and has access to a newer baler you bale count will drop by 25% so this will drop you income. This is what most lads buying by the bale do.

As I said for last three years it was easy to make monet at summer grazing for 6-7 before that it was a loss maker as cattle usually made 100 more in value between March and October.That was you bought at 300 with there weight and they sold at 200+ weight and they put up 200kgs. The 100 euro was swallowed in cost.

If this autumn you have an SFP of 9K that is an average value of 750/HA by 2019 you will be down to 6200 euro or or 517/HA including greening.