Liverpool FC Team Talk/Gossip/Rumours Thread 2014 - Mod Note in OP, 1/09

daithijjj

5live wrote: »

Sorry, but you can. Many teams last year and the year before marked the ball-playing CB and let him(Skrtel) give the ball to a midfielder and then pressured the midfielder. Quite a few teams are doing it at times this year by pressuring Lovren and letting Skrtel the ball because he isn't going to stride forward and overload the midfield like Lovren does at times.


Toure is also a RCB and played most of his games 'out of position' on the left to facilitate Skrtel. Lovren also looks poorer when playing RCB but gets little criticism for it.

Was Morenos positioning due to a series of errors on his part or instructions to get up the field and stretch the defense? One is his fault and, with coaching, will improve. The second is tactical and will have to be suffered to an extent with the system we play.

Thats not what Stoke did though from my recollection. They just told Walters to run him down, make him panic and as a result he found himself going into areas of the pitch he should never have been in due to not having that ability on the ball.

Errors on his part. Very bad ones actually.

Fescue

Apparently Gary Neville has been very critical of Mignolet on Monday Night Football.

Something to do with his starting position.



Crouching down too low.

Ganymede Glow

It no coincidence that we've started leaking more goals ever since Johnson has been out of the team.

Yeah right he's shíte

Augmerson

Fescue wrote: »

Apparently Gary Neville has been very critical of Mignolet on Monday Night Football.

Something to do with his starting position.



Crouching down too low.

I don't think anyone would have stopped that goal, it was destination back of the net the second Jag hit it.

SlickRic

There's some lad playing for Stoke called Victor Moses who might be able to do a job for us.

far better than that Victor Moses lad we had last season.

brevity

Here's that MNF piece focusing on Mingolet

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WV54FCLE6Ho

5live

daithijjj wrote: »

Thats not what Stoke did though from my recollection. They just told Walters to run him down, make him panic and as a result he found himself going into areas of the pitch he should never have been in due to not having that ability on the ball.

Errors on his part. Very bad ones actually.

His lack of ability on the ball is key, though. If he can/will only play a simple ball, the defense will have more time to get organised and pick up their men and good positions.

Lovren, though, can bring it out and play good passes to forwards. If i was playing against Liverpool, i would give Skrtel the ball all day long.:(

5live

SlickRic wrote: »

There's some lad playing for Stoke called Victor Moses who might be able to do a job for us.

far better than that Victor Moses lad we had last season.

Reckon he could score 20 goals for us in a season...

OwaynOTT

Fescue wrote: »

Apparently Gary Neville has been very critical of Mignolet on Monday Night Football.

Something to do with his starting position.



Crouching down too low.

Criticised his shot stopping, which is his best attribute. Carrageen going on about how he should have saved Ba's shot after Gerrard slipped, that Mignolet doesn't make saves that win points.

Well I recall him saving a penalty in his debut thus winning two points and he made a cracking save against Southampton this season earning another two points.

Shot shopping ain't a problem, coming off his line at the right time is an issue and his distribution but shot stopping is fine. Bit of scapegoating going on there tonight.

mav79

Bring back Valero, it all went to **** when he left.

Augmerson

Doni.

mav79

Augmerson wrote: »

Doni.

Surely Sterlings place is safe:)

mav79

OwaynOTT wrote: »

Criticised his shot stopping, which is his best attribute. Carrageen going on about how he should have saved Ba's shot after Gerrard slipped, that Mignolet doesn't make saves that win points.

Well I recall him saving a penalty in his debut thus winning two points and he made a cracking save against Southampton this season earning another two points.

Shot shopping ain't a problem, coming off his line at the right time is an issue and his distribution but shot stopping is fine. Bit of scapegoating going on there tonight.

I do find it odd that last week Sakho got slated for a headed clearance falling to an opposition player and resulting in a goal, yet Mignolet is being made the scapegoat and Lovrens clearance is not being mentioned. I feel we conceded an amazing goal that would have had fans purring if a Liverpool player scored it. The biggest mistake was dropping deep and inviting Everton on.

woodyg

i was going to come on here an say Gary shut the fup up your talking ****
but then i watched it and ......

he talks sense nothing but fuping sense
the man is going to make a quality coach, he has spotted a big weakness with Mig and to be frank i hope Carra brings it to light with the Pool coaches.
True the strike might have beaten him anyways but not being in the correct position for the shot meant he had no chance.
being so young it can be got out of him and some long sessions on the training ground to drill it out might work.
It's as Carra says these big moments that change the course of a season.
He tips that on to the bar we have 3 big points which give the club a lift going to Basel.

Migs positioning is poor. It's been mentioned on here before.

jesus_thats_gre

rarnes1 wrote: »

Migs positioning is poor. It's been mentioned on here before.

Ah but it was mentioned by Alan.

garra

daithijjj wrote: »

Many of them are better than Skrtel in that department, that's all that matters.

You dont "target" a player by letting them have the ball.

I can well remember Steve Staunton being "targetted" in this manner, ie by letting him be the one to bring the ball out of defence, especially when playing centre-half. He was great on a dead ball but not the most clever in distribution or technical in possession. Don't let the term fool you, it is most definitely a prescribed tactic to target that player in the knowledge they will cough up possession by closely marking the nearest players to him.

gafferino

Anyone got the skinny on Basel? I see they are top of the league:
P10 W7 D1 L2

Utopia Parkway

Plenty of legitimate things to criticise Mignolet for but the Jagielka goal is not one of them. Very very few keepers save that. If any.

5starpool

gafferino wrote: »

Anyone got the skinny on Basel? I see they are top of the league:
P10 W7 D1 L2

We'll do very well to get anything out of the game I reckon. I don't know a huge amount about them, but they don't need to be great to fancy a win against us at home the way we are going.

Utopia Parkway

Utopia Parkway wrote: »

Plenty of legitimate things to criticise Mignolet for but the Jagielka goal is not one of them. Very very few keepers save that. If any.

Am I the only one who thinks the goal though great was a bit of a fluke, defender blasts ball in direction of goal.... 99 times in 100 they go in the stand

As an example, chamber's effort against Spurs was class and if it went in would have been jizz worthy..... Jag's was imo a pure fluke.

~Rebel~

Utopia Parkway wrote: »

Plenty of legitimate things to criticise Mignolet for but the Jagielka goal is not one of them. Very very few keepers save that. If any.

True. Neville's observation is definitely an interesting one though. Even if he couldn't have saved it, one would think he should surely have gotten closer to it - it was well inside the post, rather than top corner.

It seems like an odd posture to take, having your hands as far away from the crossbar as physically possible. Is it a case that he simply writes off anything high, and instead gives himself the best chance possible for a low shot into the corner - playing the numbers game?

Either way, as the lads on MNF said, you do kind of expect the keepers of top clubs to make the unexpected saves - to block the shots which you think are nailed on goals. I think thats the problem with Mignolet. More often than not, he does enough, but it's fairly rare that he really exceeds expectations. This might be ok if he was completely infallible on the things he should save, but as we've seen, he's prone to messing up the easy positioning stuff too. Would definitely like to see him pushed back to the reserve spot, for which he would be perfect. There's a very good keeper in there, but there isn't a world class keeper.

daithijjj

garra wrote: »

I can well remember Steve Staunton being "targetted" in this manner, ie by letting him be the one to bring the ball out of defence, especially when playing centre-half. He was great on a dead ball but not the most clever in distribution or technical in possession. Don't let the term fool you, it is most definitely a prescribed tactic to target that player in the knowledge they will cough up possession by closely marking the nearest players to him.

Im not talking about other instances though. Im talking about the one time another manager in the EPL publicly stated he targetted the player and what happened in the game. Walters was all over him, it wasnt a case of what you are stating and letting Skrtel have the ball more. They won it back by putting the player with inferior ability on the ball by making him have to play it quicker.

Anyway, im sick talking about Skrtel :pac:, vastly over rated.

klose

I dont like the way the whole centre half thing is looking at the moment, toures contract is up next summer and hes hardly getting a renewal. Sakho left his boyhood club because of lack of game time so he wont think twice about leaving here if hes sitting in the stands because kolo is favoured over him, both could possibly leave next summer (obviously im predicitng a lot of what ifs there).
That then leaves us with two senior centre halfs with coates and iloris loans finishing, you would imagine coates will be sold/loaned/released next summer and who knows what will happen with ilori.
I cant imagine there being much change with our defence between now and then so we will still have the same issues next summer and still need atleast one new centre back again. I feel we should have taken whatever fee we could have off the turkish club for toure and held onto ilori.

5starpool

Win on Wednesday and on Saturday we'll be world beaters again going into the international break.

Harry Palmr

klose wrote: »

I dont like the way the whole centre half thing is looking at the moment, toures contract is up next summer and hes hardly getting a renewal. Sakho left his boyhood club because of lack of game time so he wont think twice about leaving here if hes sitting in the stands because kolo is favoured over him, both could possibly leave next summer (obviously im predicitng a lot of what ifs there).
That then leaves us with two senior centre halfs with coates and iloris loans finishing, you would imagine coates will be sold/loaned/released next summer and who knows what will happen with ilori.
I cant imagine there being much change with our defence between now and then so we will still have the same issues next summer and still need atleast one new centre back again. I feel we should have taken whatever fee we could have off the turkish club for toure and held onto ilori.

Pfffffft panic ye not, it pretty obvious what's going to happen. The next centre back is Steven Gerrard! :pac:

Liam O

Neville definitely has a point there with Mignolet. You can say his shot stopping is his biggest attribute, but there was 3 examples of him flapping at high shots in big games there. It wouldn't have been something I'd have overly picked up on. It may help him at times with lower shots but if it's happening with high shots on regular occasions he shoukd probably look at it. The problem with that is he may start over thinking a lot more shots which would result in more mistakes. Tough life this goalkeeping lark

Will I Amnt

Augeo wrote: »

Am I the only one who thinks the goal though great was a bit of a fluke, defender blasts ball in direction of goal.... 99 times in 100 they go in the stand

As an example, chamber's effort against Spurs was class and if it went in would have been jizz worthy..... Jag's was imo a pure fluke.

Strike on goal goes straight in, no deflection, it wasn't miss-hit. He shot to score and scored, you can't really call it a fluke. He just got it all right.

mosstin

5starpool wrote: »

Win on Wednesday and on Saturday we'll be world beaters again going into the international break.

Eh, we won't.

~Rebel~

Augeo wrote: »

Am I the only one who thinks the goal though great was a bit of a fluke, defender blasts ball in direction of goal.... 99 times in 100 they go in the stand

As an example, chamber's effort against Spurs was class and if it went in would have been jizz worthy..... Jag's was imo a pure fluke.

To an extent, though on second captains this week, they recalled that he used to actually score a few of those back with Sheffield United when he played in midfield. I remember a few absolute screamers he scored from long range there, I think a season or two before he moved to Everton.

Tangatagamadda Chaddabinga Bonga Bungo

~Rebel~ wrote: »

To an extent, though on second captains this week, they recalled that he used to actually score a few of those back with Sheffield United when he played in midfield. I remember a few absolute screamers he scored from long range there, I think a season or two before he moved to Everton.

Yeah heard that too. He has 32 career goals according to Wikipedia which is a very good return for a central defender. There not all scored because of corners either which is why Terry and Skrtel would have so many goals to their name.

MD1990

For Basle I would go (assuming Sturridge won't make it)

---

Mignolet

---

Manquillo--Skrtel--Lovren--Moreno

---

Gerrard---Henderson

---

Lallana---Coutinho

---

Sterling

---

Balotelli

---

8-10

~Rebel~ wrote: »

To an extent, though on second captains this week, they recalled that he used to actually score a few of those back with Sheffield United when he played in midfield. I remember a few absolute screamers he scored from long range there, I think a season or two before he moved to Everton.

I remember thinking it was strange for Everton to play him at the back as I always thought he looked a good midfielder at Sheffield. Turned out to be a genius move!

~Rebel~

Tangatagamadda Chaddabinga Bonga Bungo wrote: »

Yeah heard that too. He has 32 career goals according to Wikipedia which is a very good return for a central defender. There not all scored because of corners either which is why Terry and Skrtel would have so many goals to their name.

Indeed, 55 seconds into this clip is another very similar goal, struck beautifully. I can remember at least one other he struck from even further out on the volley too.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=V0b66ZSQp0M

dogbert27

Augeo wrote: »

Am I the only one who thinks the goal though great was a bit of a fluke, defender blasts ball in direction of goal.... 99 times in 100 they go in the stand

As an example, chamber's effort against Spurs was class and if it went in would have been jizz worthy..... Jag's was imo a pure fluke.

I think from this image you see his technique as he hit the ball it was an intentional shot on target more than a hit and hope.



I hope he tries the same against United next week. In terms of top 4 rivals a draw would be a good result in this game but it would be sweet to see Everton win at Old Trafford again.

xabi

dogbert27 wrote: »

I think from this image you see his technique as he hit the ball it was an intentional shot on target more than a hit and hope.

Are'nt they all? Just because it goes into the stand doesnt mean the player didnt intend it to go on target, speaking from experience here BTW. When I was playing all of my shots I intended to go on target but invariably they ended in row Z.

Dickerty

MD1990 wrote: »

For Basle I would go (assuming Sturridge won't make it)

---

Mignolet

---

Manquillo--Skrtel--Lovren--Moreno

---

Gerrard---Henderson

---

Lallana---Coutinho

---

Sterling

---

Balotelli

---

Yep, I'd nearly hold back Sturridge so that he isn't called up by England...

dfx-

I can see the point of the Mignolet stance argument for the Negredo goal, but the swerve and angle of the Everton strike makes the argument irrelevant for that example and questions why you would bring it up.

Optimus Caesar

Dickerty wrote: »

Yep, I'd nearly hold back Sturridge so that he isn't called up by England...

Even if he's held back, there is no guarantee that England won't call him in so they can assess him themselves.

Optimus Caesar

dfx- wrote: »

I can see the point of the Mignolet stance argument for the Negredo goal, but the swerve and angle of the Everton strike makes the argument irrelevant for that example and questions why you would bring it up.

Well he only missed the Jagielka strike by inches so if he had stood taller then surely he'd have had a better chance of getting his hands up to it quicker and tipping it over?

The Negredo one isn't the same as he does get his hand(s) to it but it goes through him and in so that was definitely keeper error.

PhiloCypher

Optimus Caesar wrote: »

Well he only missed the Jagielka strike by inches so if he had stood taller then surely he'd have had a better chance of getting his hands up to it quicker and tipping it over?

The Negredo one isn't the same as he does get his hand(s) to it but it goes through him and in so that was definitely keeper error.

You could also argue that a man will jump higher from a coiled spring position then one where his knees are almost locked.

BenEadir

PhiloCypher wrote: »

You could also argue that a man will jump higher from a coiled spring position then one where his knees are almost locked.

Sure but that's only relevant if timing isn't a factor. Starting that low to get to a ball which is high and travelling at such speed is a disadvantage. If he hadn't have been so low he might (only might) have gotten there quicker and therefore had a chance to stop it.

Optimus Caesar

PhiloCypher wrote: »

You could also argue that a man will jump higher from a coiled spring position then one where his knees are almost locked.

The ball is flying high in to the net... he doesn't have to get everything behind it to save it... a fingertip probably would have done it and in that case I think Neville is 100% correct in his analysis here.

benny79

Hate to say he but I also think Neville was 100% correct and its a big weakness in Mignolets game!
All good keepers stand tall and always make themselves as big as possible!

hadepsx

Ughhh. Neville and right in the same sentence

Dickerty

benny79 wrote: »

All good keepers stand tall and always make themselves as big as possible!

Sorry, but this is nonsense. If the ball is outside the box, he needs to stay 'coiled' in case he needs to quickly go left or right. Not crouched right down, but certainly not fully extended...

gafferino

UUUggghhhhhhh this is literally the worst argument I have seen on this forum.

gafferino

"Pressure is what is happening in Iraq at the moment when there is a war. That is pressure," said Mignolet.

"We are all football players and we are here to do our best. You want to work hard in training and we will see what happens at a weekend.

"I can only do my best, work hard, be positive and confident and I believe in myself. That is the only thing I can do.

"If I have to look into all the people and players who are linked with Liverpool football club then there will be another team on the pitch.

"Every week there would be a different 11 playing. So it is just the fact that you play for a big club and you have to accept that is the way it is, but I don't read anything into that.

http://www1.skysports.com/football/news/11669/9496069/premier-league-liverpool-goalkeeper-simon-mignolet-not-feeling-the-pressure

klose

If neville didn't point out that on mnf nobody would bat an eye at mignolet and i personally still don't tbh, it was a worldy of a goal that ya just raise your hands and say its one those moments, you could point out a lot more flaws on migs game than his shot stopping but i guess that is nevilles job to analyse etc....

Harry Palmr

Shudda got Begovic