Liverpool FC Team Talk/Gossip/Rumours Thread 2014 - Mod Note in OP, 1/09

D'Agger

Has there been any mention of the pace of the shot? Does anybody know what speed it travelled at?

My initial reaction from the replay was that Mig saw it the whole way, and yes he was down low.

However, Jagielka struck it in such a way that it was always moving away from him, add speed to that and it's a difficult ask for Mignolet to react to the flight of the ball at that speed.

Could it have been saved? Yes, do I blame Mignolet for not saving it? No - it's a phenomenal strike. If people want somebody to blame or a fall guy then why not go for Balotelli? If Borini had missed the opportunities Balo missed on Saturday there'd be calls to give him away in the next transfer window. Certain players get more stick from fans than others - before it was Henderson, Johnson could have a stormer and still get stick - now Mignolet is creeping into 'fall guy' category

Mignolet has a lot to learn and has made too many mistakes in games where it matters most for my liking but criticism for not saving Jagielkas shot is fairly harsh imo

The Mig

Sorry lads, I should have saved it :pac:

sword1

D'Agger wrote: »

Has there been any mention of the pace of the shot? Does anybody know what speed it travelled at?

My initial reaction from the replay was that Mig saw it the whole way, and yes he was down low.

However, Jagielka struck it in such a way that it was always moving away from him, add speed to that and it's a difficult ask for Mignolet to react to the flight of the ball at that speed.

Could it have been saved? Yes, do I blame Mignolet for not saving it? No - it's a phenomenal strike. If people want somebody to blame or a fall guy then why not go for Balotelli? If Borini had missed the opportunities Balo missed on Saturday there'd be calls to give him away in the next transfer window. Certain players get more stick from fans than others - before it was Henderson, Johnson could have a stormer and still get stick - now Mignolet is creeping into 'fall guy' category

Mignolet has a lot to learn and has made too many mistakes in games where it matters most for my liking but criticism for not saving Jagielkas shot is fairly harsh imo

58 mph

MD1990

D'Agger wrote: »

Has there been any mention of the pace of the shot? Does anybody know what speed it travelled at?

My initial reaction from the replay was that Mig saw it the whole way, and yes he was down low.

However, Jagielka struck it in such a way that it was always moving away from him, add speed to that and it's a difficult ask for Mignolet to react to the flight of the ball at that speed.

Could it have been saved? Yes, do I blame Mignolet for not saving it? No - it's a phenomenal strike. If people want somebody to blame or a fall guy then why not go for Balotelli? If Borini had missed the opportunities Balo missed on Saturday there'd be calls to give him away in the next transfer window. Certain players get more stick from fans than others - before it was Henderson, Johnson could have a stormer and still get stick - now Mignolet is creeping into 'fall guy' category

Mignolet has a lot to learn and has made too many mistakes in games where it matters most for my liking but criticism for not saving Jagielkas shot is fairly harsh imo

Difference is Balotelli's general play was very good. Strong,great touch & some great pieces of skill. Borini can barely control the ball when it is played up to him.

klose

Sakho left out of the squad tomorrow unsurprisingly enough

D'Agger

MD1990 wrote: »

Difference is Balotelli's general play was very good. Strong,great touch & some great pieces of skill. Borini can barely control the ball when it is played up to him.

That's not the point I was making - Balo is clearly a better player - I'm talking about not putting away chances - Balotelli should have scored the other day but he's the new signing who's bags of craic so it hardly get's mentioned. If it was Borini posters here would be using it as a stick to beat him with - at least that's what I believe

Ferris_Bueller

MD1990 wrote: »

Difference is Balotelli's general play was very good. Strong,great touch & some great pieces of skill. Borini can barely control the ball when it is played up to him.

Was it as good as people are saying though? He missed a lot of chances and didn't score any goals, his general play was decent but if he doesn't add goals to his game it's useless. Harsh for people to be criticising Mignolet for not saving that world class strike and then people are praising Balotelli when he missed a lot of chances. As D'Agger said some players just seem to be the 'fall guy'.

For the record I'm not unhappy with Ballotellis performances so far, but it's too early to judge. He could still be a huge success or a total flop.

Utopia Parkway

benny79 wrote: »

Hate to say he but I also think Neville was 100% correct and its a big weakness in Mignolets game!
All good keepers stand tall and always make themselves as big as possible!

That's when faced with a one on one with an onrushing attacker. In this case he is crouched low so he can explode upwards from the legs if he has to. Much easier to get power and height on a jump from that position than if you are standing straight up.

As I said last night there are plenty of valid criticisms of Mignolet. The fact that he stays on his line too much or that he doesn't command his area. This seems like a ridiculous criticism to me. Neville may as well say a keeper is at fault for every 25 yard rocket into the top corner that beats them. Theoretically they should be able to save them all but they don't because sometimes you just can't get to a ball hit with such power right into the corner of the goal.

Fescue

Ferris_Bueller wrote: »

Was it as good as people are saying though? He missed a lot of chances and didn't score any goals, his general play was decent but if he doesn't add goals to his game it's useless. Harsh for people to be criticising Mignolet for not saving that world class strike and then people are praising Balotelli when he missed a lot of chances. As D'Agger said some players just seem to be the 'fall guy'.

For the record I'm not unhappy with Ballotellis performances so far, but it's too early to judge. He could still be a huge success or a total flop.

I think the difference is that Mignolet has been a problem for over a year now, whereas Balotelli is only just arrived. If Balotelli is performing to the same level in a years time I don't doubt he will be criticised for it.

His positioning for that goal in fairness shouldn't be an issue. It was a rocket. It was the Neville the expert who brought it up.

His positioning on other occasions has been questioned by a few people which is fair enough.



Should Skrtel have cleared a header leading to that goal? I seem to remember during the match cursing him and haven't managed to see a replay.

Iused2likebusts

Ferris_Bueller wrote: »

Was it as good as people are saying though? He missed a lot of chances and didn't score any goals, his general play was decent but if he doesn't add goals to his game it's useless. Harsh for people to be criticising Mignolet for not saving that world class strike and then people are praising Balotelli when he missed a lot of chances. As D'Agger said some players just seem to be the 'fall guy'.

For the record I'm not unhappy with Ballotellis performances so far, but it's too early to judge. He could still be a huge success or a total flop.

He missed 1 good chance and was a bit unlucky. He had a few shots from distance wouldn't class them as chances.

Underpaid Mike

Mario stayed behind on his own with BR for 30 mins to go through positioning drills yesterday apparently. Doesnt take 30 mins to tell someone to stop running 40 yards from goals, making a tackle and then standing up like a statue. Hopefully he starts to buy into the ethos soon as he could be a great player for us, not the way he is playing though.

We are probably the only team in the world that has a defensive minded striker. Dirk Kuyt #2

Agent Coulson

klose wrote: »

Sakho left out of the squad tomorrow unsurprisingly enough

Well he can't be blamed for defensive errors then :pac:

Fescue

Agent Coulson wrote: »

Well he can't be blamed for defensive errors then :pac:

I'll find a way.

Agent Coulson

Underpaid Mike wrote: »

Mario stayed behind on his own with BR for 30 mins to go through positioning drills yesterday apparently. Doesnt take 30 mins to tell someone to stop running 40 yards from goals, making a tackle and then standing up like a statue.

It would take alot more than 30 mintues in fairness to change the way a player has played for most of his life.

That is something the club new they were getting when they bought the player.

Agent Coulson

Fescue wrote: »

I'll find a way.

We all know that.

punk_one82

Lads whatever about Neville knowing his stuff and Mig being out of position a few costly times recently - Jagielkas goal was an absolute screamer. I doubt any keeper would have kept that out.

Underpaid Mike

punk_one82 wrote: »

Lads whatever about Neville knowing his stuff and Mig being out of position a few costly times recently - Jagielkas goal was an absolute screamer. I doubt any keeper would have kept that out.

Not true if you ask me
There are a number of goalies who are rarely if ever beaten with shots like that
It was at least 3 feet inside the post above the goalie, it would have been stopped by an elite level goalie. Mingolet unfortunately is definitely not in that category.

Boom_Bap

Although what Nev said is fairly good, has he actually measured Migs ability to spring from a low position and high position?

Some people jump better from a more crouched position, others don't. Simple as that. Some people run from the knees, others dont.

Compared to Carra's discussion on Howards bounce, that is completey justified, as you can't spring from being mid-air. My guess with Howard is that he was getting ready for Balo to take the free.

dogbert27

Gerrard has scored a number of screamers like that through out his career and you never hear how the goalie should have been better, it's always about Gerrard,i.e. the goal scorer.

You can (and I do) blame Mignolet for the Ludogogrets goal.

You can't blame him for conceding that goal. Where was the Liverpool player rushing out to get the block in? Nowhere.

You can see from the picture I posted the nearest player to Jagielka is about 10 yards away and he's already turning his back on the shot!

5live

dogbert27 wrote: »

Gerrard has scored a number of screamers like that through out his career and you never hear how the goalie should have been better, it's always about Gerrard,i.e. the goal scorer.

You can (and I do) blame Mignolet for the Ludogogrets goal.

You can't blame him for conceding that goal. Where was the Liverpool player rushing out to get the block in? Nowhere.

You can see from the picture I posted the nearest player to Jagielka is about 10 yards away and he's already turning his back on the shot!

Neville did a good comparison on Neuers body shape with long distance shots compared with Mignolets. Neuer was standing tall and could reach the high shots.

In saying that, though, if the shot was low, i would expect Mignolet to save it rather than Neuer

greendom

5live wrote: »

Neville did a good comparison on Neuers body shape with long distance shots compared with Mignolets. Neuer was standing tall and could reach the high shots.

In saying that, though, if the shot was low, i would expect Mignolet to save it rather than Neuer

Really ? My money would always be on Neuer

OwaynOTT

I just thinks it strange that they picked that goal to criticise Mignolet and focused on his shot stopping.
It's the rest of his game that he needs to perform better at and now because Neville has questioned his shot stopping we will never hear the end of it on Sky and that will seep into the general narrative on Mignolet and just reinforce it.

Carragher also questioned Mignolet over the Chelsea debacle last year, which is a very strange observation. Mig has saved us points last year and all ready this year.

Can he doing better? Yes.
Is he able to do better? Debatable and we can only wait and see.

The midfield providing more of a shield to the defence, eases the pressure here and should help cut out defensive errors. Errors are likely but the amount of errors we commit is staggering and it's not like we don't have defenders with good reputations, they had that before they joined Liverpool and are struggling now.

Ease the pressure on them, should reduce the amount of work Mignolet has to go through. Out of the top 6 teams, I reckon he faced the most shots, which means his chance of producing errors increases. Top goalies are commended usually on their concentration levels, as they usually have little to do.

Mignolet is over worked due to the decencies in front of him.
I honestly think that Valdes or whoever won't make much difference until the issues in front of the goalie is sorted.

jasonb

5live wrote: »

In saying that, though, if the shot was low, i would expect Mignolet to save it rather than Neuer

This is the key in my opinion. It's easy to look at it afterwards and say 'it was a high shot and he started too low', but he had no way of knowing what the shot was going to be like. If he'd been standing tall and a low shot had gone in, people would be giving out about that instead.

I think he's got definite issues (with positioning, some decisions he's made etc.), but not saving that shot isn't one of them...

J.

monkey9

Oh ffs, Mignolet's crouching stance is an issue now just because Neville said so? He showed some of Neuer's saves, but what was Neuer's stance like for the Lampard goal in the 2010 World Cup that wasn't given?

Jaglielka's goal was a screamer, not a chance am I putting any ridiculous sounding blame on Mignolet.


Not that big a fan of Mignolet mind. He's decent enough but I'd like to think we're scouring the leagues for a better replacement.

djPSB

Mignolet jumps from his knees.

Underpaid Mike

Mingolet made more individual mistakes leading directly to a goal more than any other keeper in the premiership last year. He made 5. Thats an outrageous number which means he was directly responsible for 10% of all goals conceeded by Liverpool in the Premiership.
For someone that we paid that much for, with as much experience both in the Premiership and Internationally, thats unacceptable. Step up now or else he will be replaced pretty quickly

I gave him the benefit of the doubt last year after a lot of shaky performances but patience has to be wearing thin with him by now. Not good enough simple as that

OwaynOTT

And anyway the comparison with Neur are questionable in worth.
Let's compare apples and oranges or I mean arguably the best goalie in the world playing for one of the best teams in the world with a very good shot stopper playing with an excellent attacking team that is useless defensible and struggling more often than not in the last 5 years.

MD1990

Boom_Bap wrote: »

Although what Nev said is fairly good, has he actually measured Migs ability to spring from a low position and high position?

Some people jump better from a more crouched position, others don't. Simple as that. Some people run from the knees, others dont.

Compared to Carra's discussion on Howards bounce, that is completey justified, as you can't spring from being mid-air. My guess with Howard is that he was getting ready for Balo to take the free.

But its not about jumping as high as possible. Its very easy to touch the crossbar. Mignolet crouching down is giving him more work to do for high shots.

Fescue

Crouching Simon, Hidden Sakho.

Vicxas

I find hard to see how many keepers could save that shot, it swerved mid flight and had enough pace on it to break the sound barrier.

Ugh, i guess i'm still pissed at our poor start to the season...

benny79

Underpaid Mike wrote: »

Mingolet made more individual mistakes leading directly to a goal more than any other keeper in the premiership last year. He made 5. Thats an outrageous number which means he was directly responsible for 10% of all goals conceeded by Liverpool in the Premiership.
For someone that we paid that much for, with as much experience both in the Premiership and Internationally, thats unacceptable. Step up now or else he will be replaced pretty quickly

I gave him the benefit of the doubt last year after a lot of shaky performances but patience has to be wearing thin with him by now. Not good enough simple as that

+1

If your going to win the PL you need a top keeper he is not simple as that and not good enough, and I'm not just referring to Ja's goal the weekend that was a screamer...but he could off positioned himself better still mightened of saved it but would of having a better chance.

MD1990

MD1990 wrote: »

But its not about jumping as high as possible. Its very easy to touch the crossbar. Mignolet crouching down is giving him more work to do for high shots.

Crouching down gives you much more spring though, standing tall would make it much more difficult to dive for the ball.

Try it yourself even its difficult to get momentum from an upright start. While Neville does talk a lot of sense on this occasion he is talking nonsense imo.

Fescue

Dangelo Stocky Rage wrote: »

Crouching down gives you much more spring though, standing tall would make it much more difficult to dive for the ball.

Try it yourself even its difficult to get momentum from an upright start. While Neville does talk a lot of sense on this occasion he is talking nonsense imo.

He said it was something they covered doing his pro licence.

Boom_Bap

MD1990 wrote: »

But its not about jumping as high as possible. Its very easy to touch the crossbar. Mignolet crouching down is giving him more work to do for high shots.

Agreed it's not about jumping as high as possible, it's about jumping as fast and accurately as possible. To dive to the upper corner of the goal, to save a ball moving and swerving away from you would require you to be able to spring to that corner.
Doing so from an upright position is more difficult as your body just doesn't move that way.

OwaynOTT

benny79 wrote: »

+1

If your going to win the PL you need a top keeper he is not simple as that and not good enough, and I'm not just referring to Ja's goal the weekend that was a screamer...but he could off positioned himself better still mightened of saved it but would of having a better chance.

Like Joe Hart?

cj maxx

Silly question but what night is the basil game on and is it on telly ?

noodler

cjmc wrote: »

Silly question but what night is the basil game on and is it on telly ?

Tomorrow and its on RTE2.

Alonso77

I love the way none of this Mignolet crouching talk was mentioned until Neville started on it last night and now some people are on the bandwagon usisng it as another excuse to hammer the goalie. It was a world class strike.

breghall

Unstoppable strike!..... play in goals much any of ye???

evil_seed

Alonso77 wrote: »

I love the way none of this Mignolet crouching talk was mentioned until Neville started on it last night and now some people are on the bandwagon usisng it as another excuse to hammer the goalie. It was a world class strike.

it also goes to show how much people just don't know stuff and regurgitate what they here on TV

Charlie19

If someone is going to mock a keepers positioning, they should use a better example than Evertons equalizer as that was unstoppable.

The lad will never hit a better strike, It wasn't directly in the top corner but had enough movement to fool any keeper.

Dickerty

breghall wrote: »

Unstoppable strike!..... play in goals much any of ye???

Thank you! Between the reaction time with the speed of the ball, the movement of said ball, and the keeper needing to be prepared for a half dozen different possibilities - it's pretty much unstoppable.

MR NINE

Im watching a repeat of the everton match, i must say i actually think it was a very good performance. We looked fairly solid defensively, had a pretty good shape and balance to the side and managed to create a lot of openings. We lacked a clinical touch in the final third, theres no question sturridge will have a huge impact when he returns. Hopefully he can stay injury free for a while, if he stays fit for the season I think we'll get fourth place, thats how important he has become for us. Unfortunately, he will likely pick up another injury at some stage this season.

Im worried about balotelli. I think hes a good player, but he just doesnt really fit our style of play. Hes similar to lambert in that regard, though clearly a better player. When everyones fit I think our first choice attack should be sturridge, sterling, lallana and coutinho.

5starpool

I can't wait until Wednesday so we have something else to talk about than that goal. We'll soon have more defensive calamities to discuss anyhow.

death1234567

Dangelo Stocky Rage wrote: »

While Neville does talk a lot of sense on this occasion he is talking nonsense imo.

Agreed, although at least when Neville is talking nonsense (which he does a fair bit) he tries to show the reasoning behind it. He doesn't just state an opinion/cliché and then offer nothing to justify it like so many pundits do.

You couldn't fault the Keeper for that goal IMO.

Harry Palmr

Match thread up to distract from this stupid topic.

MR NINE

As far as the goal is concerned, i think criticising mignolet is very harsh. Neville appears to have a point, the other examples they showed highlighted the issue better. Negredos goal and ramseys goal were both savable and his starting position probably cost him. Regarding the jagielka goal, it was savable in the same way a 30 yard free kick is scorable. Great players sometimes pull them off, but not all the time, not even close. It would have been a stunning save had he made it, easily one of the top 5 of the season imo. However, just because a great keeper might have saved it, doesnt mean he should be criticised for not saving it. When ronaldo/suarez/whoever misses the target with a 30 yard free kick in the dying minutes you dont criticise them. Sure, they could have done better, but it would have had to be a top class effort to have done better.

Mignolet has many faults, and has had plenty errors already this season. Not saving that shot is a long long way down my list of concerns regarding him.

Agent Coulson

Johnson, Gerrard, Sakho, Skrtel, Mignolet who will be the scapegoat next week?

googled eyes

Agent Coulson wrote: »

Johnson, Gerrard, Sakho, Skrtel, Mignolet who will be the scapegoat next week?

Jordan