Liverpool FC Team Talk/Gossip/Rumours Thread 2014 - Mod Note in OP, 1/09

dogbert27

mosstin wrote: »

. There wasn't anyone out there better than him tonight which, alas, doesn't say much but he doesn't deserve the criticism.

All players can be criticised on a performance and tonight Sterling did deserve criticism based on the higher standard he's put himself at.

A number of times in the first half he went to ground to easily looking for a free kick that wasn't given.

People were saying good things about Markovic but where is the guy who will take the ball and run at his defender all day long.
It looks like the guy is lacking confidence and is keeping it safe and tidy when in possession.

Gerrard was very sloppy in front of the defense as was shown by the panel.

The whole team looked devoid of ideas when in possession and there was no urgency about them. Worryingly it has been like this for the last number of games.

Sir Gallagher

Augmerson wrote: »

I don't mean to over state Allen. I know he won't be the golden key but I think the side would look better with him in it.

He should be sold as soon as and a replacement brought in, he's a decent player, but he's a sicknote. It's no use having him on the books if he's not going to be there on nights like tonight.

Fescue

Players like Coutinho, Markovic, Lallana, Sterling and the like, they are talented players who will perform well in a team that is playing well.

Its the spine of the team that worries me. Mignolet, the centrebacks, the midfielders.

mosstin

dogbert27 wrote: »

All players can be criticised on a performance and tonight Sterling did deserve criticism based on the higher standard he's put himself at.

A number of times in the first half he went to ground to easily looking for a free kick that wasn't given.

People were saying good things about Markovic but where is the guy who will take the ball and run at his defender all day long.
It looks like the guy is lacking confidence and is keeping it safe and tidy when in possession.

Gerrard was very sloppy in front of the defense as was shown by the panel.

The whole team looked devoid of ideas when in possession and there was no urgency about them. Worryingly it has been like this for the last number of games.

I'm saying that to single out Sterling on a night when things didn't run for him but when he constantly got on the ball whilst others shirked responsibility is wrong. He's 19 but he's brave as ****.

MR NINE

Claims that our season is over are fairly ridiculous but there are definitely some causes for concerns. It would appear were extremely dependant on sturridge, and thats assuming things will improve when he returns. If sturridge struggles for form we could be royally ****ed in attack. Were also fairly screwed in central midfield, its gonna take more than joe allen to solve our problems there. Its early days, but given the money that was spent, its fairly shocking how short we are on quality in central midfield and up front.

NukaCola

rob316 wrote: »

Why single out Gerrard though? He wasn't asked about him.

I really dont care, it didnt bother me, dont know why it would bother anyone but some people are easily annoyed i guess.

mosstin

Ardent wrote: »

Don't agree. That was the best I've seen Coutinho play this season. Maybe he tired a little, but he certainly wasn't taken off for having a bad game.

I genuinely cannot recall any worthwhile contribution from Coutinho tonight.

Fescue

The worst part is that is a very ordinary Basel side. I don't want to think what Madrid are going to do to us.

It could really messy.

kevohmsford

Very disappointing start to the season. Pressure is on Rodgers big time to turn things around.

citytillidie

Off to the game this weekend, did not see game tonight but just reading the train wreck of a match thread i hope it is a better performance.

Can't believe people are still bringing up replacing Suarez, even though there is no replacing him

5starpool

citytillidie wrote: »

Off to the game this weekend, did not see game tonight but just reading the train wreck of a match thread i hope it is a better performance.

Can't believe people are still bringing up replacing Suarez, even though there is no replacing him

I'd say you'll hear some amount of grumbling and griping in the stands this weekend. Where are you sitting?

citytillidie

5starpool wrote: »

I'd say you'll hear some amount of grumbling and griping in the stands this weekend. Where are you sitting?

KOP block 109 beside the scoreboard, yea it was getting bad near the end of the Villa game

SlickRic

Same shít, different day.

I'm getting fúcking passed off at how tedious these results are, and how they're happening.

we're letting in goals from set pieces and we've lost the ability to be clinical.

It's so damn boring.

Is it that hard to coach a team how to defend set pieces?

Raif Severance

Ardent wrote: »

Don't agree. That was the best I've seen Coutinho play this season. Maybe he tired a little, but he certainly wasn't taken off for having a bad game.

That's not exactly a Ringing Endorsement.

I could Understand why BR took him off.

There were several Instances were Coutinho jogs nonchalantly, instead of sprinting back and helping out in Defense.

Not to mention, several times where he let Players go Pass him, and then just Stood there and Stop.

SlickRic

SlickRic wrote: »

Same shít, different day.

I'm getting fúcking passed off at how tedious these results are, and how they're happening.

we're letting in goals from set pieces and we've lost the ability to be clinical.

It's so damn boring.

Is it that hard to coach a team how to defend set pieces?

Just defend in general.

I've blamed every defender, the midfield and the goalkeeper at this point but the manager need to set up the team to not lose goals and games. Give me a boring 1—0 any day.

Ferris_Bueller

I'm starting to get worried about Balotelli becoming Andy Carroll 2.0. Okay maybe not, his performances haven't been that bad but he has to start scoring goals, if he is our only striker on the pitch the responsibility to score goals is on him. So far it just seems like he really doesn't suit how we are playing, he needs a partner up there with him.

There is going to be a hell of a lot of pressure on Sturridge when he gets back, if he doesn't score the goals we are in a bigger mess than we think we are, nobody else in this squad looks capable of scoring over ten goals in a season.

We probably aren't too far off "crisis" at the moment, but thankfully the league is very tight. There is so much going wrong it's hard to know where to start.

Vicxas

Time to start worrying...

breghall

Why do so many think that Sturridge's return is really going to transform this team and their fortunes??

Charlie19

breghall wrote: »

Why do so many think that Sturridge's return is really going to transform this team and their fortunes??

It's kind of obvious, his movement for one and he scores goals.

5starpool

breghall wrote: »

Why do so many think that Sturridge's return is really going to transform this team and their fortunes??

Movement, goals, and it surely has to get better. Surely.

murpho999

breghall wrote: »

Why do so many think that Sturridge's return is really going to transform this team and their fortunes??

Feeling is that it will create more attacking options with his movement etc. Don't think it wll solve everything though.

I'm sure the problems stem a lot form Mignolet's lack of dominance causing him to be mistrusted by defence and that puts pressure on them and that unease spreads through the team.

Could be a very long season as Rodgers has got real problems on his hands. First thing is to get injured players back.

mosstin

breghall wrote: »

Why do so many think that Sturridge's return is really going to transform this team and their fortunes??

Why would anyone not think that a man who scored 21 league goals and assisted several others last season would not transform the team?

mada999

Soft Falling Rain wrote: »

The man's in a difficult position right now so he's hardly going to start dropping truth bombs and alienating his captain.

Agree, a rock and a hard place...play Gerrard and get a good few poor results over the season.. drop him and initially get poor results and get a big backlash..

Harry Palmr

breghall wrote: »

Why do so many think that Sturridge's return is really going to transform this team and their fortunes??

Sturridge won't fix Skrtel, won't fix Gerrard but he will go a long way to fixing the attack. If Liverpool start to score a few the crap going on behind him won't matter so critically and there should be less pressure on the deeper positions.

http://www.theguardian.com/football/2014/oct/01/daniel-sturridge-new-deal-liverpool

Daniel Sturridge has agreed terms on a new five-year contract with Liverpool that will elevate the England international into the highest wage bracket at Anfield.

The 25-year-old is close to signing the incentivised deal, which could yield about £150,000 a week, having been a major success for Brendan Rodgers since his £12m arrival from Chelsea in January 2013. Liverpool have been keen to reflect the striker’s impact and increased importance with an improved contract to 2019 and negotiations are understood to be close to completion.

Sir Gallagher

The thing is, if Gerrard is dropped who plays? Lucas? He'd be no better. Our CM is a shambles at the moment. Not counting Henderson who i'd class as a more attacking mid we have

Gerrard: 34
Allen: sicknote
Lucas: not good enough

and Can, which was one of the more baffling purchases of the summer.

Lucas and Allen need to be sold imo, Lucas in Jan and maybe Allen next summer. The hunt for a couple of serious CM's should start now.

Im a big fan of Rodgers, but i think his naivety has him in trouble here. If he makes it through this patch hopefully he will have learned a thing or two, it could be good experience for the man, after all he's still a young manager I believe that he has the mentality to get us through this.

Muahahaha

Didnt see the match, just the goal. Anyone else think that Mig could have prevented it by punching it anywhere but onto a strkers toe ?

Also what the story with Victor Valdes ? I'm surprised Mig hasn't been dropped yet, is BR not confident in the no.2?

Charlie19

An old timer like Gerrard offers more going forward than any of our available midfielders, thats the thing with BRs singings in the midfield department, they're all far too similar.

Apart from Can his midfielders are all Number 10s that are able to do a job out wide.

Gerrard certainly has a weakness but what he does offer, outweighs his frailties.

~Rebel~

Muahahaha wrote: »

Didnt see the match, just the goal. Anyone else think that Mig could have prevented it by punching it anywhere but onto a strkers toe ?

Also what the story with Victor Valdes ? I'm surprised Mig hasn't been dropped yet, is BR not confident in the no.2?

Our No.2 is, alas, just that.

Charlie19

Muahahaha wrote: »

Didnt see the match, just the goal. Anyone else think that Mig could have prevented it by punching it anywhere but onto a strkers toe ?

Also what the story with Victor Valdes ? I'm surprised Mig hasn't been dropped yet, is BR not confident in the no.2?

It was just a reaction save, cant really blame him.

I'd personally blame Skrtel.

Sir Gallagher

Muahahaha wrote: »

Didnt see the match, just the goal. Anyone else think that Mig could have prevented it by punching it anywhere but onto a strkers toe?

Jaysus, he hasnt been great, but you can hardly blame him for that.

Ardent

breghall wrote: »

Why do so many think that Sturridge's return is really going to transform this team and their fortunes??

I'm glad someone made this point! Sturridge is good, but he's not that good. I have my doubts that we will suddenly turn into the wonderfully inventive team of last season when he gets back in the team...

Ardent

Muahahaha wrote: »

Didnt see the match, just the goal. Anyone else think that Mig could have prevented it by punching it anywhere but onto a strkers toe ?

No, he did all he could there. In fact he a great game overall - pulled off some top drawer saves.

Riesen_Meal

Ardent wrote: »

No, he did all he could there. In fact he a great game overall - pulled off some top drawer saves.

I can't really blame him for the goal tbf -and he definitely played better tonight than the other day...

He must have been watching Neville on Sky.... :P

Kingdom

Something is amiss at present. It takes time for partnerships to grow in all areas of the pitch. The reality is that LFC have a brand new back 4, and a keeper that is far from dominant, vocal or commanding. That was always going to be a tricky one to pull off.
What is really a worry is that the guts of £39m was spent on two centre halves; one of which has shown very little in a short time at the club, and the other who hasn't been poor, but hasn't dominated like most hoped he would.
For that money, and it still is a lot of money, they should be the undisputed centre-back pairing. The reality is that it looks like they are both competing for the left-centre-back role alongside Skrtel, who while a good centre back himself, really needed to be improved upon. Bar a calamity of monumental proportions, Skrtel knows he is first choice, because Kolo is not going to be putting any pressure on him.

Midfield has been a problem for a lot longer than 6 games; it was a problem all last season, masked by extraordinary attacking play, extraordinary levels of stamina by Jordan Henderson, and by a blitzkrieg approach to games. It has to be said too, that LFC have been helped last season, by tactical naivety from opponents. The same has not been repeated this season, and if it was ever going to be shown up, it was likely to be in Europe.

I would love to see Henderson tried out at the base of the three, that Rodgers seems to want. I think it would make a huge difference.

A midfield three of

---

Henderson

---

---

Countinho

---

Lallana---

would have the dynamism that LFC need, but with steel and pressing.

I appreciate that Markovic looked gick tonight, but I thought there were some really encouraging signs there, and while his final ball was always just that bit out, I think that he really looked to be getting into his stride at times, and attacking space. A concerted run in the side, in a settled side, and one bit of magic - be it an assist or a goal - and I think he'll take off.

Muahahaha

Sir Gallagher wrote: »

Jaysus, he hasnt been great, but you can hardly blame him for that.

yeah I only saw the goal and from a bad angle. It was a reaction save but I just thought anywhere but there and the danger would have been clear.
Anyway I'm in Italy and watched the highlights show on local tv where they seemed to spend more time showing and talking about Balotelli than anything else. Luckily their CL highlights program was presented by a couple of very hot chicks because I hadn't a clue what they were saying :pac:

Anyway massive game V West Brom at the weekend, we need to go out and win dirty if necessary. There is worrying signs but I still don't think this is a crisis, more a case of some players not performing and others still not clicking together. My worry though is that we get a 4 or 5 nil drubbing from Real and suddenly everyone will be calling it a crisis and that one result could quickly make events spiral out of control. We need some good performances before facing Madrid and time isnt on our side

Demosthenese

As usual our 2 centre halves were more worried about wrestling their man than going and winning the f*cking header - the ball came into our box less than head height by the time anyone touched it - almost came off Lovrens backside! I'd seriously love to be in the room IF/WHEN Rodgers ever actually asked the 2 lads WTF they are doing for Corners/Free kicks that are being played into our area. 2 best headers of the ball tied up by their men cos they refuse to just go and win it - it'd be sickening at MY lowly level on a Saturday morning nevermind the PL ... pair of jokers. Sick of them doing it.

Other than that ... we just seem to lack any real cohesion as a team, the team dynamic that we've only seen once v Spurs has completely gone out the window and i am surprised that BR doesn't seem to be able to get to the players.

We've also played Stevie for 90 mins tonight and we've another game the weekend ... very worrying the way we turnover ball so often, the distribution from the back is horrendous and it's becoming a concern ... not a panic just a concern.

This weekend will tell alot about our team and BR for sure!

Super-Rush

My main problem currently is our work rate without the ball.

Last season players like Henderson, Coutinho, and Sterling were always in the face of the opposition when they had possession. How many goals did we score and chances did we create when we forced teams into playing long balls or into making mistakes?

If we win and lose as a team then we should attack and defend as a team. We just sit back and give teams time to pass it around these days. You don't need to be Luis Suarez to put in a shift for the team.

daithijjj

daithijjj wrote: »

Lazy in terms of thought. Lazy in terms of taking instruction from others. Lazy in terms of playing offside to make it more difficult for the opposition. General brain laziness. Lazy in terms of pulling the jersey of an attacker rather than focusing on attacking the ball.

Maybe he makes more blocks etc because he finds himself not close enough to prevent shots at all. Maybe he has more tackles because he is the one left the deepest when everyone else is trying to push up. Maybe he is a loose cannon on deck that stats dont pick up?. Maybe he has the highest number of these stats because he is simply available to play more than others. Fk knows. All i know is i dont rate him in the slightest, never have. And the main stat of conceding goals does not favour him in any way over others.

I concede Mignolet is average........but he is the same keeper behind all the defenders.

Not seen much of the game because i was working but for the goal it happened again. It happens time and time and time again with Skrtel. Never had even a single thought of attacking the ball, instead.........

........he decides to throw the bear hug on the Basle player, hasnt a fkin clue where the ball is, until its too late to do anything other than head the ball towards Mignolet.

Its awful, just awful stuff..........and whats worse.

He does it every game.

Demosthenese

Super-Rush wrote: »

My main problem currently is our work rate without the ball.

Last season players like Henderson, Coutinho, and Sterling were always in the face of the opposition when they had possession. How many goals did we score and chances did we create when we forced teams into playing long balls or into making mistakes?

If we win and lose as a team then we should attack and defend as a team. We just sit back and give teams time to pass it around these days. You don't need to be Luis Suarez to put in a shift for the team.

Think the RTE lads touched on this tonight, it is getting a little ridiculous that we cannot even match the tempo for being aggressive when we do not have the ball like last season. Even the most limited player can still close the ball down and give 100% to winning it back - the closing down is shockingly slow. It must be done as a team not in 1's and 2's ... Rodgers doesn't seem to be able to get the players to copy that this season other than the Spurs game obviously ...

For Sundays game i'd be surprised at this stage if Sturridge goes on the bench with the internationals coming up. Gerard doesn't have a replacement thats fit so its basically going to be the same team tonight bar Moreno and probably Lallana starting.

Can a team change their attitude and workrate inside 4 days? We are about to see.

dogbert27

Demosthenese wrote: »

Can a team change their attitude and workrate inside 4 days? We are about to see.

They haven't changed it in 4 weeks so I wouldn't hold my breath!!

dogbert27

Super-Rush wrote: »

My main problem currently is our work rate without the ball.
=

Watching it last night it looked like when a Basle player had the ball one of our guys would run towards him and then stop 2 yards short.
There was no getting the tackle in and winning possession back.

Equally the problem is when we had possession we didn't have any creativity so we were probably better off without the ball!!

Soft Falling Rain

Having slept on it I still can't say that I was encouraged by anything. This looks bigger than merely the loss of Sturridge, I mean it's not as of you can say the team has been unfortunate. They've quite simply been very poor, creating little and when they do, they fluff their lines.

I hate to say it but it feels a morale problem now, as this team is a million miles away from the aggression and confidence of last season.

LuckyLloyd

Lose at the weekend and the pressure will be intolerable

Fowler87

LuckyLloyd wrote: »

Lose at the weekend and the pressure will be intolerable

So will this thread

BenEadir

LuckyLloyd wrote: »

Lose at the weekend and the pressure will be intolerable

The elephant in the room (probably the dressing room also) is Stevie I'm afraid. Scoring the odd free kick or penalty papers over the fact he's 34 and can't operate at the high tempo pace today's game demands. With Suarez and Sturridge and a year younger Stevie last year opposition were focused on Suarez and Sturridge as Stevie could hit them from distance but without Suarez that specific threat is diminished so opposition teams are much more on the front foot and Stevie's lack of pace is being found out game after game after game.

The whole team tempo is dropping closer to Stevies own tempo. If BR doesn't recognise and address this issue the problem will continue and despite FSG being long term responsible owners the pressure will eventually come on him if top 4 looks like a lost cause.

33/34 year old mid-fielders in top 6 PL or CL teams are rare. Stevie has neither the game to be a Pirlo type player nor the engine/athleticism to be a Giggs type.

Can we really afford to waste an entire season tip toeing around this issue?

Dickerty

BenEadir wrote: »

The elephant in the room (probably the dressing room also) is Stevie I'm afraid. Scoring the odd free kick or penalty papers over the fact he's 34 and can't operate at the high tempo pace today's game demands. With Suarez and Sturridge and a year younger Stevie last year opposition were focused on Suarez and Sturridge as Stevie could hit them from distance but without Suarez that specific threat is diminished so opposition teams are much more on the front foot and Stevie's lack of pace is being found out game after game after game.

The whole team tempo is dropping closer to Stevies own tempo. If BR doesn't recognise and address this issue the problem will continue and despite FSG being long term responsible owners the pressure will eventually come on him if top 4 looks like a lost cause.

33/34 year old mid-fielders in top 6 PL or CL teams are rare. Stevie has neither the game to be a Pirlo type player nor the engine/athleticism to be a Giggs type.

Can we really afford to waste an entire season tip toeing around this issue?

I can't argue with that, good post. I do think that once we have Can and Allen fit, we will rest/drop Stevie more often, particularly away from home.
But would Rodgers be brave enough to shop for his long term replacement in Jan? Khedira or Witzel?

LuckyLloyd

BenEadir wrote: »

The elephant in the room (probably the dressing room also) is Stevie I'm afraid. Scoring the odd free kick or penalty papers over the fact he's 34 and can't operate at the high tempo pace today's game demands. With Suarez and Sturridge and a year younger Stevie last year opposition were focused on Suarez and Sturridge as Stevie could hit them from distance but without Suarez that specific threat is diminished so opposition teams are much more on the front foot and Stevie's lack of pace is being found out game after game after game.

The whole team tempo is dropping closer to Stevies own tempo. If BR doesn't recognise and address this issue the problem will continue and despite FSG being long term responsible owners the pressure will eventually come on him if top 4 looks like a lost cause.

33/34 year old mid-fielders in top 6 PL or CL teams are rare. Stevie has neither the game to be a Pirlo type player nor the engine/athleticism to be a Giggs type.

Can we really afford to waste an entire season tip toeing around this issue?

Is it Gerrard's fault that the team as a collective seems to have forgotten how to press effectively?
Is it Gerrard's fault that the team as a collective seems unable to defend set pieces confidently and competently?
Is it all Gerrard's fault that the back four and goalkeeper seem to be lacking cohesiveness and positional awareness?
Is it Gerrard's fault that we look utterly limp going forward in the absence of Suarez and Sturridge?
Is it Gerrard's fault that we look mentally deflated at present?
Is it Gerrard's fault that we had a supposedly important center back of the future storm out of Anfield on derby day?
Is it Gerrard's fault that the club spent ~£20 on Lazar Markovic leaving us short on necessary quality in his own position?
Finally, is it Gerrard's fault he keeps getting selected whether he looks in form / out of form / tired / tactically unable?

There is an elephant in the room alright on the basis of the last few months, and Gerrard it ain't.

Yep, it's all on Rodgers tbh.

He brought the players in, picks the team and organises the tactics.

How he can't organise a defense is incredible, real amateur stuff.

daithijjj

People who think Gerrard is the issue need to ask other questions imo.

If the club had purchased players that could start over Gerrard in the last 2 years we wouldnt have to play Gerrard as much. We seem to have an obsession with buying mids that dont operate in the defensive side of the game. People will say we can play others there but they arent any good at it either.

Players needed to be brought in that both removed some responsibility from Gerrard and that would or should have been coupled with the older player being phased out. Neither has happened. We HAVE to play Gerrard and thats an indictment on recruitment policy

As for other players not performing. The obvious ones are playing the exact same way as last season namely Mig/Skrt/Johnson. They werent exposed as much due to the goals scored. But they havent learned anything or tightened up in any way.

Again, thats a problem down to management/coaching/recruitment. We cant point at players for this stuff anymore imo, the only ones that can do anything about it are looking on from the dugout.

The only way we get out of this right now imo is to get back to the 11 that started last season as much as possible. Glaring issue we arent playing as a team and down to too many new bodies. Harping on about it but thats reality and what i expected. Only signings i wanted in the summer were a starting DM, some full back cover, a CB and competition for migs. This will be a long season for Liverpool. We bought good players but not the right positions to change what was wrong from last season.

Optimus Caesar

BenEadir wrote: »

The elephant in the room (probably the dressing room also) is Stevie I'm afraid. Scoring the odd free kick or penalty papers over the fact he's 34 and can't operate at the high tempo pace today's game demands. With Suarez and Sturridge and a year younger Stevie last year opposition were focused on Suarez and Sturridge as Stevie could hit them from distance but without Suarez that specific threat is diminished so opposition teams are much more on the front foot and Stevie's lack of pace is being found out game after game after game.

The whole team tempo is dropping closer to Stevies own tempo. If BR doesn't recognise and address this issue the problem will continue and despite FSG being long term responsible owners the pressure will eventually come on him if top 4 looks like a lost cause.

33/34 year old mid-fielders in top 6 PL or CL teams are rare. Stevie has neither the game to be a Pirlo type player nor the engine/athleticism to be a Giggs type.

Can we really afford to waste an entire season tip toeing around this issue?

Good post and I somewhat agree that Gerrard (at this point in his career) is not the man to play in front of a defence that is struggling but do we have anyone better at the club right now? I don't believe so and that isn't Gerrard's fault. He isn't responsible for going out and signing players so the fact that we have no one better for that role isn't down to him.