Liverpool FC Team Talk/Gossip/Rumours Thread 2014 - Mod Note in OP, 1/09

dogbert27

LiamoSail wrote: »

Similar happened Bergkamp at Arsenal and Deco at Porto when Wenger/Mourinho turned up. That didn't work out too badly

Deco hadn't won anything before Mourinho took over Porto in 2001. Mourinho had learned his trade at Barcelona with Bobby Robson and Louis Van Gaal.

Bergkamp won 1 league with Ajax and 2 Uefa Cups. Arsene Wenger had actually won Ligue 1 as a player and as a manager with Monaco as well as the Coupe de France.

I don't see the similarities in your examples.

dogbert27

gafferino wrote: »

I have gone ahead and started the match thread. My first one.
Tread softly for you tread on my dreams.

noodler

Nice to see Rodgers recognises at least some of the problems Ballotelli has displayed.

Even if there are plentry more problems with the team.

Agent Coulson

Here is the problem I see with what Rodgers said about Ballotelli every single fan and pundit and footballer and manager on the planet new what type of player Ballotelli was when we signed him.

Then the manager goes and plays him up front on his own which isn't his game he needs someone to play off. So the manager then goes in the press and slates the player for playing in a system that everyone can see doesn't work so instead of changing the system to suit the players the manager blames the players for not working hard enough and scoring goals.

Rodgers as been caught out each season so far as Liverpool manager with his tactics and not being able to see the changes that need to be done mid game and his lack of defensive coaching.

Now Rodgers seems to be a top man manager who can and seems to get the best from young players and has a great attacking philosophy which makes for excting football to watch when it is played right.

Maybe he needs to deflate his ego a small bit and bring in some world class coaches beside him.

Ego is good in this world for sure but but being able to se your own weakness will make him a world class manager.

SlickRic

i honestly don't see what's wrong with what Rodgers said.

like, at all.

NukaCola

I dont either. If it was said about me i'd take zero offence to it.

NukaCola

Crash Bang Wall wrote: »

Did he not say Gerrard was excellent on Wednesday night.

Someone else said he did but i haven't seen it. Did you see it personally because in the post match interview on Sky he didn't praise anyone. When the presenter hinted that Sterling was poor BR said he's still young but doing the right things.

D'Agger

SlickRic wrote: »

i honestly don't see what's wrong with what Rodgers said.

like, at all.

It was the way he said it :pac:

Boom_Bap

NukaCola wrote: »

Someone else said he did but i haven't seen it. Did you see it personally because in the post match interview on Sky he didn't praise anyone. When the presenter hinted that Sterling was poor BR said he's still young but doing the right things.

On the RTE post match interview, he praised Gerrard. It came on after the first or second batch of highlights from the other games.

NukaCola

Boom_Bap wrote: »

On the RTE post match interview, he praised Gerrard. It came on after the first or second batch of highlights from the other games.

Cant stand the RTE panel. Another reason to be glad I missed it.

punk_one82

dogbert27 wrote: »

I made a point last week about our coaching.

When Rafa left he took the goal keeping coach with him. The new goal keeping coach that came in (after Hodgson's coach) played with Tranmere Rovers for 9 years.

There is a parallel with this guys appointment and Reina's decline. Imagine you have played in the CL final. Won the FA Cup. Finished 2nd in the league. Been part of one of the greatest international football squads that won the European and World Cup.
You turn up to work one day and you're told that a guy who has played with Tranmere Rovers for 9 years is now your coach. Fxxk that for a game of soldiers.

This guy is still the coach in charge of making Mignolet a top keeper. FFS Liverpool, go out and get a top level coach.

Also it was quite clear last year we were useless defensively. This year looks even worse! Did Rodgers and Clarke have a falling out in their time together at Chelsea or something?

I'm just playing devils advocate here, but you're saying the former Tranmere gk can't teach top quality players because he didn't play at a high level himself? Brendan Rodgers retired from football at age 20 having never played at a top level. Does this then mean that he's not fit to manage Liverpool?

Edit: I'm in no way saying our current GK coach is good enough, I'm just wondering is it a valid excuse.

Soups123

Boom_Bap wrote: »

On the RTE post match interview, he praised Gerrard. It came on after the first or second batch of highlights from the other games.

Yep, he said without being asked about Gerrard that he though he was 'outstanding' on the night

dogbert27

punk_one82 wrote: »

I'm just playing devils advocate here, but you're saying the former Tranmere gk can't teach top quality players because he didn't play at a high level himself? Brendan Rodgers retired from football at age 20 having never played at a top level. Does this then mean that he's not fit to manage Liverpool?

Edit: I'm in no way saying our current GK coach is good enough, I'm just wondering is it a valid excuse.

No worries, I know where you're coming from.

I'm just thinking how it could have been perceived by Reina. The Tranmere keeper went from finishing his playing career straight in to coaching the Liverpool Reserves and Academy keepers and then got promoted to the first team.

Where as managers like Rodgers and Mourinho spent years learning there trade and failing at other clubs before becoming successful.

If I got the guys cv I would have said yeah, 9 years with Tranmere, more or less a local guy now (he's Dutch), first coaching role, we'll take him on for the reserves and academy but no way would I be considering him for the first team coaching role.

punk_one82

dogbert27 wrote: »

No worries, I know where you're coming from.

I'm just thinking how it could have been perceived by Reina. The Tranmere keeper went from finishing his playing career straight in to coaching the Liverpool Reserves and Academy keepers and then got promoted to the first team.

Where as managers like Rodgers and Mourinho spent years learning there trade and failing at other clubs before becoming successful.

If I got the guys cv I would have said yeah, 9 years with Tranmere, more or less a local guy now (he's Dutch), first coaching role, we'll take him on for the reserves and academy but no way would I be considering him for the first team coaching role.

I suppose it's a valid concern, but maybe he showed in the underage/reserve setup that he was good enough to coach in the first team. Whether or not Reina accepted that is a different thing. However, players of Reinas calibre should not be regressing depending on the coach they have. In my opinion of course.

NEDDURC

Just reading BR comments on Origi yesterday (sorry if posted already) -

"He is a top player. He has everything - the speed, the profile and he can play now but our deal was that we couldn't bring him in now.

"That was unfortunate because he can run in behind, he can keep the ball, he can press and he can run."

Seems like BR is highlighting that he's everything Balotelli is not. I think he's like a fast, hard working striker to make runs in behind opposition defence if he had a choice!!

dogbert27

punk_one82 wrote: »

I suppose it's a valid concern, but maybe he showed in the underage/reserve setup that he was good enough to coach in the first team. Whether or not Reina accepted that is a different thing. However, players of Reinas calibre should not be regressing depending on the coach they have. In my opinion of course.

I guess Reina went from working with a guy under Benitez to a 67 year old Mike Kelly as coach with Hodgson to John Actherburg in 2011 who Kenny promoted to the first team. So he was probably becoming a bit disillusioned.

But if you look at it in terms of our goal keepers:
Reina regressed.
Brad Jones is here 4 years and still scares the sxxt out of us when we see him play.
Mignolet is now a concern and seems to have no command of his box.

I see a problem with the goalkeeping coaching.

punk_one82

dogbert27 wrote: »

I guess Reina went from working with a guy under Benitez to a 67 year old Mike Kelly as coach with Hodgson to John Actherburg in 2011 who Kenny promoted to the first team. So he was probably becoming a bit disillusioned.

But if you look at it in terms of our goal keepers:
Reina regressed.
Brad Jones is here 4 years and still scares the sxxt out of us when we see him play.
Mignolet is now a concern and seems to have no command of his box.

I see a problem with the goalkeeping coaching.

Reina did regress, but he hasn't exactly stepped up much since he left Liverpool. Brad Jones was probably never of the calibre needed for Liverpool. Mig is a strange one. I'm not sure if he's not being coached well enough or if he's just not good enough.

Either way I don't disagree with you. I simply do not know enough about or goalkeeper coaching, so it's quite likely you're right.

dogbert27

punk_one82 wrote: »

Reina did regress, but he hasn't exactly stepped up much since he left Liverpool.

He was the first keeper to save a Balotelli penalty! :P

Won a Coppa Italia medal last season too.

Daemonic

No idea if our GK coach is good enough, but I'd hope any professional player would judge them based on their coaching and the information they share and if they feel it is helping them as a player.
On Reina, the main thing he lost was his ability to make a reflexive save which seemed to coincide with him bulking up quite a bit. He was never brilliant under crosses and his distribution / sweeping was still excellent.
Jones has never had the ability. Harsh as it is, I doubt he'd be at the club now if his kid hadn't been so ill for a time. I think the club did the decent thing and let him take care of that and as others left he became the no. 2 by default.
Mignolet may just be feeling the pressure of having everything analyzed so much more than when he was at Sunderland.

dogbert27

Interesting article with Sander Westerveld

http://www.football-analysis.com/sander-westerveld-interview-liverpool-houllier/

You must have worked with many different styles of goalkeeper coach over the years. How have they differed from each other in terms of training methods?

Yes, I have. Without being disrespectful to any of the goalkeeper coaches have I’ve worked with, my one at Real Sociedad was the best. He worked with me on all sorts of small things that make a big difference. Which part of my feet to be on, the distance between my legs, how I positioned my hands, everything. He was very specific and as I said, was excellent with video analysis. Some other goalkeeper coaches, like Joe Corrigan – an absolute legend – used to do basic fitness exercises every day. Things you could get from a coaching manual. Nothing was specific to my game.

Joe Corrigan was the goalkeeping coach with Liverpool between 1994 and 2004.

Bowlardo

dogbert27 wrote: »

I see a problem with the goalkeeping coaching.[/QUOTE

I was saying something similiar. I would seriously look at who every the goal coachign staff at celtic are. The continously bring keepers to a high level of performance and sell them on for biggish money.

Agent Coulson

So we need a goalkeeping coach and a defensive coach and a striking coach since we can't score goals.

Hmmmmm:pac:

Might as well throw in a midfield coach as well who can teach Gerrard to play DM :rolleyes:

T-K-O

Would it be possible to give Lille a few bob and cut short origi's loan?

D'Agger

T-K-O wrote: »

Would it be possible to give Lille a few bob and cut short origi's loan?

I'd imagine we left him on loan to Lille to save a few bob in the first place

Leave Origi there for the season.

Two games without a goal at Anfield and he'd be wrote off anyway!

Osmosis Jones

Now to get him some new legs

gafferino

Wonder what his new wages are ...... Press reports seem to point to him taking a cut from 100k to 70k to come to us. Good for him.

MD1990

rarnes1 wrote: »

Leave Origi there for the season.

Two games without a goal at Anfield and he'd be wrote off anyway!

You have wrote off Balotelli after 4 games at Anfield though.

Harry Palmr

BMJD wrote: »

apparently David N'gog is missing/AWOL:


http://balls.ie/football/nobody-seen-former-liverpool-striker-david-ngog-six-days/

He's back, on the bench tonight for Reims

edit - Ilori is at CB for Bordeaux

edit - he's off after 27 mins. Injured presumably Balls - hamstring.

Sir Gallagher

Harry Palmr wrote: »

He's back, on the bench tonight for Reims

Must'e been a serious dose of the trots.

MD1990

MD1990 wrote: »

You have wrote off Balotelli after 4 games at Anfield though.

?

Wrote him off before he joined as not suiting us.

YouTookMyName

Osmosis Jones wrote: »

Now to get him some new legs

Thats a blank piece of paper

NukaCola

rarnes1 wrote: »

Leave Origi there for the season.

Two games without a goal at Anfield and he'd be wrote off anyway!

rarnes1 wrote: »

?

Wrote him off before he joined as not suiting us.

You cant really give out about people writing players off early if your not even willing to give a player a few games yourself.

T-K-O

YouTookMyName wrote: »

Thats a blank piece of paper

Ian Arye will fill out the details this evening and to think, some posters wanted him out

NukaCola

NukaCola wrote: »

You cant really give out about people writing players off early if your not even willing to give a player a few games yourself.

Big difference with not giving a player a chance and not rating a player.

Iused2likebusts

Anyone see a suggested team from that bib theory they have got a few right of late.

dogbert27

gafferino wrote: »

Wonder what his new wages are ...... Press reports seem to point to him taking a cut from 100k to 70k to come to us. Good for him.

read somewhere it's 150,000.

Agent Coulson

gafferino wrote: »

Wonder what his new wages are ...... Press reports seem to point to him taking a cut from 100k to 70k to come to us. Good for him.

dogbert27 wrote: »

read somewhere it's 150,000.

From the BBC.

BBC Sport's Ben Smith
"The new deal, which is potentially worth as much as £150,000 per week, is heavily incentivised. But if he does hit a series of performance-related targets it puts him in a similar bracket to Steven Gerrard. And that's symbolic because it is a recognition that having lost Luis Suarez, Sturridge has emerged as the player Liverpool must build their attack around. Raheem Sterling is the next player Liverpool will open talks with."

MD1990

rarnes1 wrote: »

Leave Origi there for the season.

Two games without a goal at Anfield and he'd be wrote off anyway!

rarnes1 wrote: »

?

Wrote him off before he joined as not suiting us.

U say leave Origi where he is because he will be wrote off etc. But u yourself have already wrote off Balotelli because u believe he isn't suited even before he kicked a ball. Didn't u also criticise othere new players as well iirc? Maybe take your own advice.

MD1990

MD1990 wrote: »

U say leave Origi where he is because he will be wrote off etc. But u yourself have already wrote off Balotelli because u believe he isn't suited even before he kicked a ball. Didn't u also criticise othere new players as well iirc? Maybe take your own advice.

Ballotelli was a huge gamble, simple as that. He needs to start banging in goals asap. Delighted Rodgers got stuck into him tbh. It'll make or break him.

The Origi jibe was tongue in cheek. Serious business this Internet

J Mysterio

YouTookMyName wrote: »

Thats a blank piece of paper

:pac:

SuperTortoise

J Mysterio wrote: »

:pac:

It would also seem he's left footed and right handed!:pac:

Harry Palmr

Origi v Wolfsburg. A lot of running about! He's the French Danny Welbeck, gets forward and back quickly, good in the air, can hold up the ball.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=o7ifNBQf-Tc

Mr Alan

Rodgers going on about us being in transition is annoying as ****

Kerrigooney

Mr Alan wrote: »

Rodgers going on about us being in transition is annoying as ****

Maybe it is but we are. It's what happens when you put a load of new players into the team.

But there are other problems as well.

Super-Rush

Harry Palmr wrote: »

Origi v Wolfsburg. A lot of running about! He's the French Danny Welbeck, gets forward and back quickly, good in the air, can hold up the ball.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=o7ifNBQf-Tc

Belgian and i said this during the WC and got slated.

Iused2likebusts

Iused2likebusts wrote: »

Anyone see a suggested team from that bib theory they have got a few right of late.

Seen it posted elsewhere.
Mig
Manquillo
lovren
skrtel
moreno
gerrard
henderson
llallana
sterling
mario
sturridge

Our strongest team IMO so heres hoping sturridge is fit.

Agent Coulson

Liverpool FC manager Brendan Rodgers insists it's short-term pain for long-term gain.

My natural environment as a coach is out on the training field.

“Our team dynamic was dominating the game with the ball but also without the ball. And without the ball means running and getting in behind people.

“We’ve done that for 18 months. We did it at Tottenham. But once we lost that movement and speed of Daniel Sturridge – and the link up of other people within that - that has broken the dynamic a little bit for us.

“We just have to persevere until I get the squad back – until we get Emre Can back, Joe Allen, Daniel and the others. Then I think we will return to that level

http://www.liverpoolecho.co.uk/sport/rodgers-short-term-pain-long-term-gain-7879675

Charlie19

Iused2likebusts wrote: »

Seen it posted elsewhere.
Mig
Manquillo
lovren
skrtel
moreno
gerrard
henderson
llallana
sterling
mario
sturridge

Our strongest team IMO so heres hoping sturridge is fit.

Would have no problem with that lineup from whats available and if Sturridge doesn't make it, then I wouldn't mind seeing Borini get another try.

mosstin

Charlie19 wrote: »

Would have no problem with that lineup from whats available and if Sturridge doesn't make it, then I wouldn't mind seeing Borini get another try.

Borini will solve nothing. Ever.