Liverpool FC Team Talk/Gossip/Rumours Thread 2014 - Mod Note in OP, 1/09

segadreamcast

whatawaster wrote: »

Sturridge played 80 out of 108 possible premier league games in the 3 seasons before this one. Some of those games missed were games he wasn't picked for Chelsea. That's an average of about 29 games a season. This is the worst lay-off I can remember from him. Hardly time to start succession planning. We need to expect him to miss games and plan accordingly, but we don't need to lose the run of ourselves. We won't find a striker better than Sturridge, let alone 2.

Only bit of sense I've seen in the last few pages - Sturridge is prone to the odd niggle here and there, but this is his worst injury I can remember if indeed he is out for another 4 weeks.

It's deeply unfortunate of course that he's out during a spell where we are stuttering on every front and failing to gain fluency, but that's not entirely his fault. We have to face facts: Balotelli is underperforming for even those of us who expected little. His statistical record was variable, and it definitely showed that there is a good player there, but by and large his 'unpredictability' is a smokescreen for a player who is deeply predictable and frankly not the best... i can't see him getting even 0.3 goals per game this season, which is frankly rubbish.

We'd be almost as well trying something bizarre on Monday like putting Sterling into a false 9 role after 30 minutes with Coutinho and Lallana playing in from the flanks. It'd at least confuse the opposition and probably give us a lot of space. I realise it sounds insane though, but we're going to need serious improvisation to get out of this malaise.

I'm deeply concerned about several aspects of the team ---
- Markovic, bar flashes in one early game (Man City and combination with Moreno iirc), hasn't impressed
- Gerrard. Unfortunately everybody has a view on that here and are deeply entrenched on both sides. My view last season was a player who had reinvented himself, but I said it on the day we lost to chelsea and I haven't changed my mind since - "this could end Stevie". His discipline is shot since the game IMO and he just hasn't regained the form that I saw from Jan-May 2014. I think he has to be dropped.
- Balotelli. As above. However, I think he should start this week. A goal is a necessity though in truth. If he can't bag one in this game.......
- Coutinho. A shame to see him regress so badly, particularly when we need him so much, but also understandable for a variety of factors, not least the WC2014 motivation now gone.

All told, we're in a huge fight now to regain top 4 form (this isn't top 4 form for the record....). I was fed up posting here for the first 4-5 games of season as people just wouldn't acknowledge that our performances were lacking, we weren't notching up as many points as we needed to, and instead they hid behind 'comparable fixtures last season'. West Ham result put that in sharp focus for most, albeit belatedly. The reality is that bar 30 mins against Man City and the Spurs game, we just haven't clicked at all this season, despite having many more opportunities to do so.

The sturridge news is a hammerblow though, and likely means he won't be involved at all in this CL campaign, as I can't see us going anywhere unfortunately, which is a real shame as it wasn't the hardest of groups to get out of.

J Mysterio

Augmerson wrote: »

Who is doing the match thread?

rarnes1 wrote: »

Gafferino

Vicxas wrote: »

What's his track record?

He's good but I think we should rest him. There's a risk of burn out if he starts to many threads and one of the other forum moderators said he's needed to post there.

ebbsy

****e.

klose

Don't think coutinho has regressed nor is there no "World Cup motivation" he has always been a patchy player for us, his best run of form came the 2nd half of last season thankfully. He can amazing one game and fairly meh another, but he's young so hopefully that will iron out sooner rather than later

Soft Falling Rain

I've nothing to add on Sturridge, it's been said already.

In other news, I watched a 'best of' compilation of Torres at LFC. It's easy to forget how much of a hero that chap was for us, and for me personally it hurt more losing him than Suarez.

Vicxas

Soft Falling Rain wrote: »

I've nothing to add on Sturridge, it's been said already.

In other news, I watched a 'best of' compilation of Torres at LFC. It's easy to forget how much of a hero that chap was for us, and for me personally it hurt more losing him than Suarez.

There was a bigger sting because of the way he left. And to Chelsea of all places.

Suarez always wanted to play in Spain and I still wish him well.

Has Sturridge had a scan already?

I'm wondering how the month lay off has been determined already.

Soft Falling Rain

Vicxas wrote: »

There was a bigger sting because of the way he left. And to Chelsea of all places.

Suarez always wanted to play in Spain and I still wish him well.

I don't think anyone could have held it against Fernando wanting to go at that time, the club was in deep with the wrong people. He arguably had more reason to want out than Suarez.

There's a lot of 'just because' about his decision to go to Chelsea. His preferred destinations were off the table but all he knew was that he wanted out. I don't think it was a move he fully thought through but he was pissed off.

The Suarez-Arsenal saga is a good comparison. Top player feels 'let down' by club, club blocks his preferred move, player demands move to direct rival.

Kerrigooney

rarnes1 wrote: »

Has Sturridge had a scan already?

I'm wondering how the month lay off has been determined already.

I read this morning that he was injured during the warm up for training on Thursday and had a scan yesterday. Rodgers said yesterday he'd be out for between 2 and 4 weeks.

Iused2likebusts

Going over old ground here but its a shame the remy deal fell through for whatever reason. He was a perfect fit for what we needed from a striker last transfer window.

NukaCola

Sturridge Balotelli and Lambert were our options deemed good enough for this season. Borini was going to be let go. The club went for the cheap options and could well cost us a whole lot more.

I mean Balotelli was a risk signing that was never prolific so would have been a very good number 3 option. Sturridge gets injured a bit so really needed someone else. Lambert and Borini aren't those guys. Ok squad players and for cup runs etc but we really needed another quality forward. We made a lot of signings but there is question marks about a lot of them. There always is when you buy potential. Sometimes you need to buy quality. And we didn't. Wether we couldn't or not is another debate.

When you take risks this is what happens.

Ballotelli needs to step up now. I just don't see it happening though. He's bever been prolific so it's hardly gonna change now.

Pyjamarama

NukaCola wrote: »

Sturridge Balotelli and Lambert were our options deemed good enough for this season. Borini was going to be let go. The club went for the cheap options and could well cost us a whole lot more.

I mean Balotelli was a risk signing that was never prolific so would have been a very good number 3 option. Sturridge gets injured a bit so really needed someone else. Lambert and Borini aren't those guys. Ok squad players and for cup runs etc but we really needed another quality forward. We made a lot of signings but there is question marks about a lot of them. There always is when you buy potential. Sometimes you need to buy quality. And we didn't. Wether we couldn't or not is another debate.

It's not another debate. It's the same debate. Who would you have bought?!? We tried for some "proven quality" but they didn't want to come. We don't have the wage budget required to do a United or Chelsea on it.

Never mind the fact that it's way too early to be judging players too. Sure Jordan Henderson was a bust 14 months ago.

kfallon

Another month of shíte......ffs :mad:

martyos121

I'd nearly take Stevie in a false 9 position than use any of our available strikers, they pose no goal threat whatsoever.

Soft Falling Rain

martyos121 wrote: »

I'd nearly take Stevie in a false 9 position than use any of our available strikers, they pose no goal threat whatsoever.

Aye, I think we're better off trying to make the most of our attacking midfielders within the ranks. Balotelli and Borini do not inspire.

BenEadir

Enough with the negative waves Moriarty!

Tomorrow is the day the Balo / Borini partnership starts to deliver. Think bridge and there'll be a bridge.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KuStsFW4EmQ&list=FLQ4Qr0RgLbi0KwJBePloWoA&index=2

NukaCola

Pyjamarama wrote: »

It's not another debate. It's the same debate. Who would you have bought?!? We tried for some "proven quality" but they didn't want to come. We don't have the wage budget required to do a United or Chelsea on it.

Never mind the fact that it's way too early to be judging players too. Sure Jordan Henderson was a bust 14 months ago.

Who could we have bought. The same stupid question posed to those who think we should have bought better. Am I asking for big names? No. Am I asking to pay astronomical wage? No. Is it my job to identify targets? No.

All I'm hearing is excuses.

Last year it was "Sure we dont have CL football"
Now its "Sure we tried to get Sanchez" or "We cant compete financially"?

Are you actually for real? Are you saying we couldn't bring in one quality forward?

We had a decent wage budget and a decent transfer budget. We could have brought in one more quality forward. Frankly, if Scouting network could not identify one quality forward as well as Balotelli they should be replaced.

Also, who did I judge? Are you saying there are no question marks over who we bought last summer? We bought potential. They may turn out to be astute buys but right now we need a player who can put the ball in the net regulary and we did not get that player last summer.

OwaynOTT

Rodgers gets a lot of hassle for his iffy transfers but surely Ted, he must be working within a set of parameters put down by the owners.
Makes it difficult to get here and now quality.
Needs to be changed but I don't think Rodgers is secure enough to challenge them over it.
Last January, a lot of people were worried after the lack of activity and then were laughed at with the teams form.
A strong midfield option was needed than and is still needed now. A strong forward option is needed now and will still be needed by next summer, I reckon.
Both of those options are needed, no matter if the team hit good form between now and January.

Gbear

If we had Moreno up front and he wasn't scoring I don't think people would be up in arms over his performances.

Balotelli isn't a striker. He's a forward who supports other forwards. While it's fair to expect a bit of adaptation, ultimately its down to Rodgers to play players the right way in a system that suits them. He's failed to do that with Mario.

There's no doubt in my mind that he has the quality and the attitude to succeed here. Just not as a lone striker.

NukaCola

I dont really have that much of a problem with Rodgers transfers. We needed depth and we paid for potentially very good players. There are certain positions we could do that in. But when it comes to strikers you need to pay for quality.

To suggest that we cant buy a quality forward when we paid approx 45M for Lallana and Markovic, is quite frankly, ridiculous.

One of two things must have happened.

BR was either happy with Balotelli Sturridge and Lambert (with Borini not wanted) or the transfer team could not get a suitable player. If the transfer team could not bring in a player of quality within our wage structure/budget then get rid of them ASAP and get in people who can.

Did we fail in our targets? We failed to bring in Sanchez but were we seriously linked with anyone else? Remy i suppose.

Mr Alan

Sturridge's injury is actually a disaster

We need to start clocking up results & fast.

This summers transfer activity just seems to be looking worse & worse as the season goes on

Pilsbury Doughboy

So sick about Sturridge, puts a serious downer on me, he must be mega pissed off himself, gonna miss both Real games, sigh.

8-10

Gbear wrote: »

Balotelli isn't a striker.

Yes he is. Just because he's better with someone beside him than up top on his own doesn't mean he's not a striker. He definitely is and that comparison to Moreno playing up front is way off.

Gbear

NukaCola wrote: »

To suggest that we cant buy a quality forward when we paid approx 45M for Lallana and Markovic, is quite frankly, ridiculous.

One of two things must have happened.

BR was either happy with Balotelli Sturridge and Lambert (with Borini not wanted) or the transfer team could not get a suitable player. If the transfer team could not bring in a player of quality within our wage structure/budget then get rid of them ASAP and get in people who can.

That's incredibly simplistic.

Players have to actually want to come here and be willing to fit into our wage structure.

Its one thing to pay a player 200k after they've proven their quality over a period of years like Suarez. It's another to bring them in on that straight away.

What happens if they don't settle? What if they can't fit into our style of play. What happens when they want a pay rise and we cant go any higher?

Mega-rich clubs can take those gambles. If we did that and failed we'd be seriously ****ed.

Mr Alan

Gbear wrote: »

That's incredibly simplistic.

Players have to actually want to come here and be willing to fit into our wage structure.

Its one thing to pay a player 200k after they've proven their quality over a period of years like Suarez. It's another to bring them in on that straight away.

What happens if they don't settle? What if they can't fit into our style of play. What happens when they want a pay rise and we cant go any higher?

Mega-rich clubs can take those gambles. If we did that and failed we'd be seriously ****ed.

This is just excuse making.

If the transfer committee/Rodgers/Ayre/whoever are unable to attract top talent, then they will need to be replaced - it's as simple as that.

Our business this summer was actually a disgrace.

wcarey1975

Mr Alan wrote: »

This is just excuse making.

If the transfer committee/Rodgers/Ayre/whoever are unable to attract top talent, then they will need to be replaced - it's as simple as that.

Our business this summer was actually a disgrace.

I wouldnt go that far but it was definitely some way short of what we all needed. We've got our lot now and time to push on with it.

Kerrigooney

Storm's a comin'

Mr Alan

wcarey1975 wrote: »

I wouldnt go that far but it was definitely some way short of what we all needed. We've got our lot now and time to push on with it.

Genuinely, coming off the season we just had, considering we sold our best player by a country mile & for the money we've spent, I think that in time, 'disgrace' might prove to be an understatement.

wcarey1975

Mr Alan wrote: »

Genuinely, coming off the season we just had, considering we sold our best player by a country mile & for the money we've spent, I think that in time, 'disgrace' might prove to be an understatement.

You are of course entitled to your opinion and time will tell. We had a great opportunity and losing Suarez will hurt any team. Replacing him was an impossible task but one that we had to do. I personally think that our style of play needs to change as a direct result of him going and hopefully that will be the case.

Harry Palmr

Don't care about this blame game all I care about is that Rodgers does not try to play one up front while Studge is out - has to be Balo and Borini as someone has to provide the movement in the area and everyone know Fabio has good movement right?!

---

The U18s are playing Blackburn Rvs

Firth; Arnold, Brewitt, Polgar, Whelan; Lewis, Ejaria, Kane; Dhanda, Nicholas, Marsh.

Subs: Wheeler; Hart, Waldron, Watts, Canos

3-0 so far with young Marsh with a hat trick. Dhanda is just 15!

NukaCola

Gbear wrote: »

Mega-rich clubs can take those gambles. If we did that and failed we'd be seriously ****ed.

Paying 30M on Origi and Markovic is a massive gamble also. The difference with paying for quality is you have bought a proven player giving you a better chance of success. As every transfer is a risk this may not work out, but you've still given yourself the best chance of success.

As I said, I dont think a quality player equals 200k a week and 60M transfer fee. Is it really simplistic to think we cant bring in a quality goalscorer within our budget?

wcarey1975

Anyway team for tomorrow

---

Mignolet

---

Johnson-Skrtel-Lovern-Moreno

---

Can/Allen

---

(whoever is fit)
Gerrard - Henderson

---

Balotelli

---

Lambert-Sterling

Vicxas

wcarey1975 wrote: »

Anyway team for tomorrow

Mig
Johnson-Skrtel-Lovern-Moreno

---

Can/Allen

---

(whoever is fit)
Gerrard - Henderson

---

Balotelli

---

Lambert-Sterling

Lambert. Oh Lambert. Please come good

NukaCola

Mr Alan wrote: »

This is just excuse making.

If the transfer committee/Rodgers/Ayre/whoever are unable to attract top talent, then they will need to be replaced - it's as simple as that.

Our business this summer was actually a disgrace.

I agree. Disgrace is way OTT though.

I've been very disappointed with Lovren though.

Mr Alan

NukaCola wrote: »

I agree. Disgrace is way OTT though.

I've been very disappointed with Lovren though.

Can? Markovich? Lambert? Balo?

All contributed nothing thus far

NukaCola

wcarey1975 wrote: »

Anyway team for tomorrow

---

Mignolet

---

Johnson-Skrtel-Lovern-Moreno

---

Can/Allen

---

(whoever is fit)
Gerrard - Henderson

---

Balotelli

---

Lambert-Sterling

Lambert? I really really hope not. He is the slowest forward I can remember playing for us. Watching him run is like an optical illusion, its like he runs backward after a few seconds. He does not fit into how we play and offers very little. He wont score more than 5 goals for us.

At least Borini is capable of pressing high up the pitch.

bluefinger

Too early to write off summer signings. Calling them a disgrace is laughable

NukaCola

Mr Alan wrote: »

Can? Markovich? Lambert? Balo?

All contributed nothing thus far

Balotelli has to show more.

Can and Markovich are kids. They've played less than 5 times combined?

Lambert was a cheapo backup, but offers nothing all right.

Ciano35

Mr Alan wrote: »

Can? Markovich? Lambert? Balo?

All contributed nothing thus far

Emre can is coming back from injury, needs to be given a chance. Markovic is young but he is obviously capable of becoming a great player. Balotelli will be a lot better with someone playing next to him, but lambert is a bit crap alright.

Mr Alan

NukaCola wrote: »

Balotelli has to show more.

Can and Markovich are kids. They've played less than 5 times combined?

Lambert was a cheapo backup, but offers nothing all right.

How much did Can & Markovic cost between them? Considering how devoid of class our team looks, would it not have been wiser to spend this money on a top class player who could contribute now? (Like Rodgers said we were going to do)

Please note that when I say our business this summer was a disgrace, I'm not saying every player has no merits or couldn't potentially come good at some point in the future, what I'm saying is in the context of what we needed (to solidify our position back in the top four and try to replace Suarez as much as possible), our business has been a disgrace.

J Mysterio

Please can we not call Balotelli 'Balo'.

It sounds really shìt.

Mr Alan

bluefinger wrote: »

Too early to write off summer signings. Calling them a disgrace is laughable

I'm not writing of our summer signings, but if things don't pick up fairly rapidly we'll be out of the running for top 4 by Christmas with the > £100m worth of players bought in the summer contributing the grand total of **** all season to date.

Anyone who tries to say our summer business wasn't disgraceful if that happens is deluding themselves.

NukaCola

Mr Alan wrote: »

How much did Can & Markovic cost between them? Considering how devoid of class our team looks, would it not have been wiser to spend this money on a top class player who could contribute now? (Like Rodgers said we were going to do)

Please note that when I say our business this summer was a disgrace, I'm not saying every player has no merits or couldn't potentially come good at some point in the future, what I'm saying is in the context of what we needed (to solidify our position back in the top four and try to replace Suarez as much as possible), our business has been a disgrace.

I've been making the same point.

Ciano35

Mr Alan wrote: »

I'm not writing of our summer signings, but if things don't pick up fairly rapidly we'll be out of the running for top 4 by Christmas with the > £100m worth of players bought in the summer contributing the grand total of **** all season to date.

Anyone who tries to say our summer business wasn't disgraceful if that happens is deluding themselves.

Yeah but that hasn't happened yet, you're already calling the summer business a disgrace but we need to give them a chance, still just 1 point off 4th.

bluefinger

Mr Alan wrote: »

Our business this summer was actually a disgrace.

Mr Alan wrote: »

Anyone who tries to say our summer business wasn't disgraceful if that happens is deluding themselves.

ah yes the old shift the goal posts approach.

for the record i think Can has played in two games? one when we're being hammered by City and looked very good in the other game i think. very promising look about him and cost less than shane long.

Harry Palmr

Harry Palmr wrote: »

The U18s are playing Blackburn Rvs

Firth; Arnold, Brewitt, Polgar, Whelan; Lewis, Ejaria, Kane; Dhanda, Nicholas, Marsh.

Subs: Wheeler; Hart, Waldron, Watts, Canos

3-0 so far with young Marsh with a hat trick. Dhanda is just 15!

4-0 Sergi Canos with yet another goal or assist.

BOOOOOOOOM 5-0 Sergi Canos adds another. He really is starting to look like the next Suso Dani Pacheco

FT 5-0

dfx-

NukaCola wrote: »

Lambert? I really really hope not. He is the slowest forward I can remember playing for us. Watching him run is like an optical illusion, its like he runs backward after a few seconds. He does not fit into how we play and offers very little. He wont score more than 5 goals for us.

At least Borini is capable of pressing high up the pitch.

Slower than Morientes?

Gbear

NukaCola wrote: »

Paying 30M on Origi and Markovic is a massive gamble also. The difference with paying for quality is you have bought a proven player giving you a better chance of success. As every transfer is a risk this may not work out, but you've still given yourself the best chance of success.

As I said, I dont think a quality player equals 200k a week and 60M transfer fee. Is it really simplistic to think we cant bring in a quality goalscorer within our budget?

They're not risks. The risk is split between 2 players for starters.
Also, they'll hold their values for 5 years at that age, they're on low wages so will be easier to sell without a huge pay out and they have longer to give a decent return on the investment made.

I don't think we got our policy as a whole spot on, but I think that the players we signed were mostly excellent signings.

If we could've shifted Borini and brought in Remy, Lacazzette or someone like that, then it would've been a perfect window, given the circumstances.

Mr Alan

Gbear wrote: »

They're not risks. The risk is split between 2 players for starters.
Also, they'll hold their values for 5 years at that age, they're on low wages so will be easier to sell without a huge pay out and they have longer to give a decent return on the investment made.

I don't think we got our policy as a whole spot on, but I think that the players we signed were mostly excellent signings.

If we could've shifted Borini and brought in Remy, Lacazzette or someone like that, then it would've been a perfect window, given the circumstances.

This is absolute lunacy.

Markovich will still be worth £20m if his first season at Liverpool pans out in the way it's started? No chance. He looks like an absolute turkey to date.

All our signings this summer were excellent in your view?! Yet have all been poor season to date except for maybe Lallana who has done probably the bare minimum you'd expect from a £25m signing!

This is just crazy delusion.

If we go from 2nd to well outside the top 4 (which I suspect is how this season will pan out if we don't make some serious investment is actual top players in Jan), will you even then admit these signing have not been 'excellent'? Or is it still excellent business & the best we could have done?