Liverpool FC Team Talk/Gossip/Rumours Thread 2014 - Mod Note in OP, 1/09

garra

NEDDURC wrote: »

We were better in the second half but Sterlng up front is not really an option (Carra was wrong). He doesn't know when / how to hold the ball up and just ends up giving it away too often.

We are also playing far too narrow. Trying to force the ball through the middle way too much.

Team for weekend for me would be - 4231:

............... Mignolet
Manquillo.....Toure....Lovren....Moreno
...........Henderson....Allen
Sterling.....Coutinho.......Lallana
...............Borini

A more solid centre of Henderson and Allen would allow the full backs and front 4 to get further forward. Skrtel needs a break (just too many mistakes) and with Sakho out, I'd give Toure a go for some leadership.

Gerrard is playing so poorly. I'm amazed more people aren't picking up on it. He is essentially part of the defence in that deep lying mid role and our defence is shocking. Rodgers has rotated all others at this stage but stubborny refuses to change him and its costing us.

I would agree with this team selection - except for Toure. If only to give Gerrard a break and to give us more legs around the park, with Can & Stevie on the bench if needed. The front 4 could interchange but Borini would need to be holding up the ball well and bringing others into the game.

Good shout and worth a try I say

garra

Utopia Parkway wrote: »

Origi looks very good but Lille don't give him a lot of support. Often left up front by himself. Very defensive outfit.

If we had some of their defensive nous I'd be getting more wear out of my boxers.

Origi is a prototype premiership striker, himself and Sterling will be an interesting pair of jinking, jet-heeled, juvenile jihadists. Make it happen Allah.

Augmerson

LuckyLloyd wrote: »

How I despise posts like this. Look at the scoreboard.

So it doesn't matter how we played if we've lost? Yeah it's **** to lose, nobody sets out to lose but come on ffs.

5live

Harry Palmr wrote: »

Well I'm glad I don't have to watch Lille often, they desperately lack a Sterling/Coutinho type who can get in the oppositions deep midfield and produce a pass.

Origis weakness is clearly when one on one, lacks a bit of guile.

Not a problem, with us he will be up against 2.

Hidalgo

Just my tuppence on the last few pages and whats needed in Jan.

I'd agree with what most are hoping for but I cant see a GK DM and forward signed. I'd be pleasantly surprised if one is. I dont envisage too much activity in Jan after last summers splurge. Unless someone becomes available I don't see anything major happening, doubt there'll be aggressive purchasing. I definitely don't see a new GK till next summer at the earliest.

A DM is the single most position that could have the biggest impact imo. Someone on top of their game in that position would do a lot to cover for the calamitous defending.
If the defending does ever improve it will be via baby steps over a period of time. Confidence is so shot at this stage its gonna take time to repair it.

Agent Coulson

I can't see us buying a DM as Gerrard is in that role and Rodgers won't drop him.

A goalkeeper is needed.

A striker is needed.

But most of all a defensive coach is needed that will also help out the goalkeeper.

Does anyone think Rodgers will actually bring in a defensive coach?

I seriously doubt it. It'd be like admitting defeat, just cannot see him doing it ever tbh.

whatawaster

I don't get why Rodgers is sometimes portrayed as an egomaniac who will never accept help or admit he is wrong.

He brought in and worked with Steve Peters when most managers would run a mile. I'm sure if he feels a defensive coach is needed and a good one is available he would hire them

It's so hard to know what goes on at the training ground and how good certain coaches are. Having said that, I reckon if Colin Pascoe didn't show up for work tomorrow, nobody would notice

klose

rarnes1 wrote: »

Does anyone think Rodgers will actually bring in a defensive coach?

I seriously doubt it. It'd be like admitting defeat, just cannot see him doing it ever tbh.

Yup cant see it myself, would just be a massive conflict of ideologies then too, defensive coach probably wants to sit deep, rodgers wants to press high, defensive coach wants full backs not attacking as much as rodgers etc etc..

brevity

"Where's Colin?"
"Who?!"

Agent Coulson

I wonder where Dr. Peters is this season to get into the players heads.

5live

Agent Coulson wrote: »

I wonder where Dr. Peters is this season to get into the players heads.

It sure looks like he didn't fill in the holes he left behind after last season...

martyos121

Just saw a clip of Harry Kane in goal for Spurs tonight. Let the ball slip right through his hands and into the back of the net.
An improvement on Mignolet if you ask me, and that sorts out two problem positions for us. Love the idea of a fly goalie in the Premier League.

Charlie19

martyos121 wrote: »

Just saw a clip of Harry Kane in goal for Spurs tonight. Let the ball slip right through his hands and into the back of the net.
An improvement on Mignolet if you ask me, and that sorts out two problem positions for us. Love the idea of a fly goalie in the Premier League.

Didn't see the game but It would appear to be very foolish of Louris to be sent off while winning 5-0.

shamrock55

Do other teams have defensive coaches

martyos121

shamrock55 wrote: »

Do other teams have defensive coaches

The ones that win trophies do.

Turtyturd

We did a few years ago.

whatawaster

Turtyturd wrote: »

We did a few years ago.

We might have only finished 9th without Steve Clarke.

martyos121

Wonder would Carra do his coaching badges? Obviously would be perfect for the role.

whatawaster

martyos121 wrote: »

Wonder would Carra do his coaching badges? Obviously would be perfect for the role.

Why would he? Good player doesn't equal good manager/coach/defensive coach.

p38

shamrock55 wrote: »

Do other teams have defensive coaches

Think the club have to have defenders for the defensive coach to coach in the first place. Cause at the moment i see none at LFC.

Turtyturd

whatawaster wrote: »

We might have only finished 9th without Steve Clarke.

Wouldn't lay the league position at Clarkes feet. It's okay to admit 'The Rodgers' isn't perfect.

Harry Palmr

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=keYny7XpJMY

whatawaster

Turtyturd wrote: »

Wouldn't lay the league position at Clarkes feet. It's okay to admit 'The Rodgers' isn't perfect.

Nobody is saying he is, but I don't think it is as simple as hiring a defensive coach and everything will be better

Mr Alan

whatawaster wrote: »

Nobody is saying he is, but I don't think it is as simple as hiring a defensive coach and everything will be better

Where do you think the fault lies with our defensive problems & how do you view our transfer business under Rodgers in his time at Liverpool to date?

T-K-O

whatawaster wrote: »

I don't get why Rodgers is sometimes portrayed as an egomaniac who will never accept help or admit he is wrong.

He brought in and worked with Steve Peters when most managers would run a mile. I'm sure if he feels a defensive coach is needed and a good one is available he would hire them

It's so hard to know what goes on at the training ground and how good certain coaches are. Having said that, I reckon if Colin Pascoe didn't show up for work tomorrow, nobody would notice

Exactly, when he took the job it was very clear that Shelvey was the man and Hendo was for the door.

Gbear

whatawaster wrote: »

Nobody is saying he is, but I don't think it is as simple as hiring a defensive coach and everything will be better

If your gung ho style can keep the ball and constantly threaten, your defence will be under much less pressure.

Regardless, I'm perfectly happy for us to be a little reckless up front if it means goals. But we currently have the worst of both worlds - reckless and boring.

OwaynOTT

Hire two defensive coaches, one to coach the players to stop having brain farts and another to show them how to defined against an aerial ball into their half of any quality.
Actually maybe electrified collers would help.
Make a mistake, get a jolt.
Poor Skrtel will run up Liverpool's airtricity bill. Good thing Arye signed up for the online discount.

Turtyturd

whatawaster wrote: »

Nobody is saying he is, but I don't think it is as simple as hiring a defensive coach and everything will be better

Neither do I, the post simply stated a fact. But for all his talk and pride in his philosophy, not being able to address the big gaping weakness isn't good.

whatawaster

Mr Alan wrote: »

Where do you think the fault lies with our defensive problems & how do you view our transfer business under Rodgers in his time at Liverpool to date?

Question 1 - like everyone else here, I have no idea. I have a variety of suspicions, namely Mignolet, our midfield, our coaching, our tactics, our centre backs, our full backs.

Question 2 - mixed, and I'm only judging those bought last summer or earlier.

Feel free to aim more random questions my way

T-K-O

MR NINE wrote: »

I couldnt really give a **** tbh. Im sure he can kick and pass, i dont want him to pick out strikers and play through balls etc. i want someone who commands his area, claims crosses etc. this whole lark of a keeper needing to be good with the ball at his feet is a myth. Its a nice plus if theyre skillful but its one of the least important attributes a keeper can have imo.

All your ****s in the world don't matter. BR gives plenty. If Begovic is not comfortable with the ball he will be under constant pressure. The same pressure you can see on the face Mignolet.

Our CB's could help the keeper out by not playing him so often but they don't, this is BR's way.

OwaynOTT

Allen = good buy
Sturridge = good buy
Moreno = looking like a good buy
Manquillo = looking like a good loan
Toure = average
Borini = disappointing
Balotelli = beginning to look like it will be a poor buy
Lambert = not working out so far
Can = looks like he will be a good buy too early
Llori = a bit pointless so far
Aspas = terrible pity Sturridge didn't square a few balls to him
Alberto = another pointless one
Origi = all signs point to yes, if he plays as well as he is in France
Lovern = not looking good
Sakho = ask me at the end of this season
Markovic = not encouraging so far still very early but I have a sneaky feeling he will be good
Mignolet = a good buy. Improvement on what we had, could do better himself and I wouldn't be against another signing here either.

Prob just under half are good buys with one or two more needing some more time.

daithijjj

We could do worse than bring in Hyypia on the short term if his troubles imminently get him the sack.

Pretty sure i saw Steve Bould on Arsenals bench.

What you cant do is just 'hope' it turns around.

mosstin

OwaynOTT wrote: »

Allen = good buy
Sturridge = good buy
Moreno = looking like a good buy
Manquillo = looking like a good loan
Toure = average
Borini = disappointing
Balotelli = beginning to look like it will be a poor buy
Lambert = not working out so far
Can = looks like he will be a good buy too early
Llori = a bit pointless so far
Aspas = terrible pity Sturridge didn't square a few balls to him
Alberto = another pointless one
Origi = all signs point to yes, if he plays as well as he is in France
Lovern = not looking good
Sakho = ask me at the end of this season
Markovic = not encouraging so far still very early but I have a sneaky feeling he will be good
Mignolet = a good buy. Improvement on what we had, could do better himself and I wouldn't be against another signing here either.

Prob just under half are good buys with one or two more needing some more time.

So you're judging Lovren but not Sakho??
Mignolet a good buy? Jesus wept.
Allen a good buy? No way could that be said about him just yet.

~Rebel~

Agent Coulson wrote: »

I can't see us buying a DM as Gerrard is in that role and Rodgers won't drop him.

A goalkeeper is needed.

A striker is needed.

But most of all a defensive coach is needed that will also help out the goalkeeper.

This is the biggest issue - we all want a DM, we all wanted a DM last season - but will they play? You can guarantee if you were to swap Mascherano for Gerrard right now, the difference would be night and day.

Hendo is suddenly freed up, our domination of games and tempo would increase hugely.

Not saying there's no place for Gerrard, but an athletic, energetic quality DM with speed of thought as well as speed of movement should be what we have in front of the back four. Hendo and Gerrard just ahead of him would be fine, with whatever combination of our attackers (Sterling/Sturridge/Lallana/Coutinho/Balotelli/Markovic) you fancy ahead of them. Plenty of scope then to drop or rest Gerrard for Lallana pulling back into midfield, or Allen or Can filling in.

T-K-O

daithijjj wrote: »

We could do worse than bring in Hyypia on the short term if his troubles imminently get him the sack.

Pretty sure i saw Steve Bould on Arsenals bench.

What you cant do is just 'hope' it turns around.

He's been there awhile and nothing has changed

MR NINE

T-K-O wrote: »

All your ****s in the world don't matter. BR gives plenty. If Begovic is not comfortable with the ball he will be under constant pressure. The same pressure you can see on the face Mignolet.

Our CB's could help the keeper out by not playing him so often but they don't, this is BR's way.

I think he'd prioritise a keeper who can deal with an aerial ball right now, who makes good decisions under pressure, who isnt a bit of a pussy. I could well be wrong, I really hope im not. Id rather a keeper who often kicks the ball out of play but can then claim the subsequent ball back in. Ive never seen Courtois play particularly good football but it doesnt mean I want him any less.

Turtyturd

If Gerrard doesn't get taken off at 3-0 down having played 90 a few days before and undoubtedly going to play 90 a few days later it's hard to see a time when he is left out/taken off.

MR NINE

~Rebel~ wrote: »

This is the biggest issue - we all want a DM, we all wanted a DM last season - but will they play? You can guarantee if you were to swap Mascherano for Gerrard right now, the difference would be night and day.

Hendo is suddenly freed up, our domination of games and tempo would increase hugely.

Not saying there's no place for Gerrard, but an athletic, energetic quality DM with speed of thought as well as speed of movement should be what we have in front of the back four. Hendo and Gerrard just ahead of him would be fine, with whatever combination of our attackers (Sterling/Sturridge/Lallana/Coutinho/Balotelli/Markovic) you fancy ahead of them. Plenty of scope then to drop or rest Gerrard for Lallana pulling back into midfield, or Allen or Can filling in.

Yeah i really think the problem is whats around the defenders. A better dm and a better gk and i think our defenders would soon regain some confidence. Im afraid to say I cant see rodgers making these changes any time soon.

I want to believe daithis constant ramblings regarding skrtel. Im not saying i dont, he just makes it sound like its too easy a solution. Id certainly be in favour of giving sakho and lovren a run of games, or possibly even toure for a game or two to restore some leadership and vocal chords to our defence, but im not sure how effective itll be whilst gerrard and mignolet are the other members of our defence

OwaynOTT

mosstin wrote: »

So you're judging Lovren but not Sakho??
Mignolet a good buy? Jesus wept.
Allen a good buy? No way could that be said about him just yet.

Sorry, Lovern should say not looking good so far.

Yeah Mignolet was a good buy. Improved on what we had and he can't help the shoite that's in front of him. He is exposed too much and too often are opposition players getting clear shots on goal under no pressure. He has earned us points all ready this season.
Of course he has made mistakes and of course there are better keepers out there but he was a good buy for what we could get at the time. A bit pricey though.
And I wouldn't mind seeing some decent competition come in and if the defence does improve and he still fups up, I'd be worried.
Still a good buy, not as good as Sturrudge or Countinho (who I forgot) but still a good buy.

Allen was a bit overpriced but has been decent by and large and when he has been out injured the midfield has missed him.
Injury problems are a worry however.

T-K-O

MR NINE wrote: »

I think he'd prioritise a keeper who can deal with an aerial ball right now, who makes good decisions under pressure, who isnt a bit of a pussy. I could well be wrong, I really hope im not. Id rather a keeper who often kicks the ball out of play but can then claim the subsequent ball back in. Ive never seen Courtois play particularly good football but it doesnt mean I want him any less.

You're missing the point, our style of play puts the GK under unnecessary pressure. If he kicks the ball out of play he's getting a bollocking from the manager.

I'm not against the idea of an upgrade but we have bigger problems, IMO. ~ 40 million and our CB's can't win a header. That's depressing.

OwaynOTT

mosstin wrote: »

So you're judging Lovren but not Sakho??
Mignolet a good buy? Jesus wept.
Allen a good buy? No way could that be said about him just yet.

T-K-O wrote: »

He's been there awhile and nothing has changed

Not shocked to see who thanked this post.

Turtyturd

OwaynOTT wrote: »

Not shocked to see who thanked this post.

I agree he's been there a while.


Reformed character.

Agent Coulson

Looking at some of tomorrows back pages it looks like Rodgers is throwing Balotelli under the bus.

Headline in the Times is...

Brendan Rodgers says £16m striker Mario Balotelli, 24, may never be good enough for Liverpool

OwaynOTT

T-K-O wrote: »

You're missing the point, our style of play puts the GK under unnecessary pressure. If he kicks the ball out of play he's getting a bollocking from the manager.

I'm not against the idea of an upgrade but we have bigger problems, IMO. ~ 40 million and our CB's can't win a header. That's depressing.

Also Skrtel, Lovern and Gerrard are culpable here too. They keep putting him under pressure when they could deal with it themselves but they play it safe and pass on the pressure.

Can win a header, can't hold a coherent line, can't play under pressure, can't bring the ball out, too easily outmuscled and just chaotic at times.

T-K-O

It's over to you Brendan. Yes we need a DM but as it stands Mascherano wouldn't get a game. This is why I am in favour of pushing Gerrard forward making it far easier to rotate/sub/replace him

A defensive coach will achieve zip unless BR is behind it.

OwaynOTT

Agent Coulson wrote: »

Looking at some of tomorrows back pages it looks like Rodgers is throwing Balotelli under the bus.

Headline in the Times is...

Now in fairness, he did hedge it with a 'may'.

T-K-O

OwaynOTT wrote: »

Not shocked to see who thanked this post.

Bould is a trophy coach, I was under the impression this was a well known fact.

Agent Coulson

OwaynOTT wrote: »

Now in fairness, he did hedge it with a 'may'.

But that is not what is being picked up on by the press really.

Rodgers knows what he is doing.

T-K-O

OwaynOTT wrote: »

Also Skrtel, Lovern and Gerrard are culpable here too. They keep putting him under pressure when they could deal with it themselves but they play it safe and pass on the pressure.

Can win a header, can't hold a coherent line, can't play under pressure, can't bring the ball out, too easily outmuscled and just chaotic at times.

Exactly, you can see it on his face. In certain situations he doesn't want the ball. I get and enjoy the passing game but that drives me mad.