Liverpool FC Team Talk/Gossip/Rumours Thread 2014 - Mod Note in OP, 1/09

~Rebel~

Biggest problem today I think was movement. Again.

The whole point of the system is supposed to be dragging opposition players out of position, making them come pressure the ball, and then we can get in behind them by using the free'd up players.

But instead, when our players in possession get put under pressure, the free guys don't move into position to receive. We see it so often that we pass deeper and deeper, and then eventually someone is left caught and has to hoof it, or gets intercepted.

I kept specifically watching out for it today, and our free guys movements are often away from the ball. Very frustrating to watch. From the pressure the other team puts on our midfielders, they're already very much wise to the fact that if they pressure us, we'll unravel.

This didn't really happen last year, as Sterling, Coutinho, Sturridge, Suarez and Henderson moved around so much that there were always options. It seems like everyones positions this year are far more rigid - Balotelli being told to stay up top instead of being allowed to drift around. Sterling today having to stay wide, and Hendo left. Our strength last year was not having this rigidity to play, everyone was everywhere - we really need to get back to that mentality, fast.

Mumha

~Rebel~ wrote: »

Biggest problem today I think was movement. Again.

The whole point of the system is supposed to be dragging opposition players out of position, making them come pressure the ball, and then we can get in behind them by using the free'd up players.

But instead, when our players in possession get put under pressure, the free guys don't move into position to receive. We see it so often that we pass deeper and deeper, and then eventually someone is left caught and has to hoof it, or gets intercepted.

I kept specifically watching out for it today, and our free guys movements are often away from the ball. Very frustrating to watch. From the pressure the other team puts on our midfielders, they're already very much wise to the fact that if they pressure us, we'll unravel.

This didn't really happen last year, as Sterling, Coutinho, Sturridge, Suarez and Henderson moved around so much that there were always options. It seems like everyones positions this year are far more rigid - Balotelli being told to stay up top instead of being allowed to drift around. Sterling today having to stay wide, and Hendo left. Our strength last year was not having this rigidity to play, everyone was everywhere - we really need to get back to that mentality, fast.

I think everyone is waiting to see if Balotelli will click with Sturridge when he comes back. If not Lpl will urgently need to flash the cash. Too much at stake.

Agent Coulson

When Moreno is playing higher up the pitch than Balotelli.

When Henderson is playing on the left and Lallana is on the bench.

When Johnson's first touch is that of someone who never played football in their life.

When Gerrard doesn't even have a role anymore deep or forward lying I couldn't tell.

When the manager throws on three strikers in the hope something would happen because he was out of Ideas.

Then you know you are in trouble if one of these things happen.

Well all of the above happened today!!!!!!

We are in trouble!

mav79

NukaCola wrote: »

You said he deserves another year only if (at worst) we miss out on top 4 by a couple of points. What you said above is different and quite reasonable.

No what I posted was

For me, if performances improve and we miss out on 4th by a few points he deserves another year, but if the season continues with these inept performances I don't see how anyone can say he doesn't deserve to get the sack.

If we miss out on fourth by 2 points or 7 it makes no difference as long as the performances improve as the season continues. But at the moment there is no sign of Rodgers improving the the team. I don't want Rodgers sacked but I do not have blind faith in him as a manager.

Rodgers deserved all the credit he got for the way the team played last year, he had the team playing in a great attacking formation and there was a great team spirit throughout the squad, but at the same time you have to take into account the fact that with such a small squad he could not change things that much. This season he has a bigger squad and it seems he doesn't know how to get them to work together, he seems to be trying to shoehorn players into positions to suit the formation he wants played rather than finding a system that suits the players he has.

MD1990

I think its a bit naive to think when Sturridge is back we will suddenly improve hugely. In 2 of his 3 games this year we were also very poor. He will improve us but we have so many players out of form. We were actually playing better in at the start of the 12/13 than we are now.

Osmosis Jones

MD1990 wrote: »

You obviously haven't been watching him last 6 months. In appaling form & wouldn't improve us.

You obviously haven't been watching Liverpool the last 2 months if you think he wouldn't improve us.

klose

If possible id like to see this team get a run...

---

sturridge---balo

---

sterling

---

couonho----hendo

---

can
Moreno--sakho--skrtel--manquillo

---

migs

For me, thats a good young side with tons of potential, ideally migs would be replaced and have somebody better than skrtel but i think it could work. Problem being 60~million is not in the starting xi in lovren/lalanna and markovic so we would never see such a team.

slingerz

I've been saying for ages Liverpool should go 5-3-2

Wing backs in Moreno and Manquillo

3 dummies in the centre

Henderson, Can, Allen in midfield

Sterling off Borini

Need to have plenty of life in us at the bernabea during the week anyway

Same against Chelsea next weekend

For the other league games
4-3-3 with at least 2 up top and Sterling at the tip of the diamond

slingerz

klose wrote: »

If possible id like to see this team get a run...

---

sturridge---balo

---

sterling

---

couonho----hendo

---

can
Moreno--sakho--skrtel--manquillo

---

migs

For me, thats a good young side with tons of potential, ideally migs would be replaced and have somebody better than skrtel but i think it could work. Problem being 60~million is not in the starting xi in lovren/lalanna and markovic so we would never see such a team.

20 million for Markovic was madness he doesn't look worth 2.50

MD1990

Osmosis Jones wrote: »

You obviously haven't been watching Liverpool the last 2 months if you think he wouldn't improve us.

He's having a Torres like decline. He might improve us slightly but not much. We should be targetting better players who are on a upward curve. Balotelli has more goals than him this season too.

klose

slingerz wrote: »

20 million for Markovic was madness he doesn't look worth 2.50

Im willing to give him the season to settle in tbh, he played a big part in a treble winning benfica side and by all accounts is one the highest rater yoing players in europe. Looks like he is having a hard time settling in.

mav79

klose wrote: »

If possible id like to see this team get a run...

---

sturridge---balo

---

sterling

---

couonho----hendo

---

can
Moreno--sakho--skrtel--manquillo

---

migs

Just to see us playing that formation again would be a start. Sterling and Couthino are also in their best positions in the above formation. Both were wasted where they were playing today.

~Rebel~

slingerz wrote: »

20 million for Markovic was madness he doesn't look worth 2.50

Absolutely pointless to judge/criticize him now. He's a kid, alone, in a new country, with a new language, in a tougher league. What would anyone expect?! There's a reason he's being kept out of the limelight. Let him actually settle into his new life first, then worry about his performances on the field. He clearly wasn't a purchase for now, as much as later.

I think it's totally fair to say that money could have been better used on a player for now in another position, but that blame /criticism should go to the manager/club, not the player. I still feel that the player will prove to be a Henderson-esque long term success.

Gbear

slingerz wrote: »

20 million for Markovic was madness he doesn't look worth 2.50

That really is desperately stupid.

20 year old. Played 4 games.

Mother of ****..

NukaCola

mav79 wrote: »

No what I posted was

You said "He deserves another season if we miss out on 4th by a couple of points" = he does not deserve another season if we miss out by more than a couple of points

So.....

You dont think he should he deserves to be Liverpool manager if we miss out on 4th by more than a couple of points is what i took from that. It wasn't clear to me thats all.

NukaCola

slingerz wrote: »

I've been saying for ages Liverpool should go 5-3-2

Wing backs in Moreno and Manquillo

3 dummies in the centre

Henderson, Can, Allen in midfield

Sterling off Borini

Need to have plenty of life in us at the bernabea during the week anyway

Same against Chelsea next weekend

For the other league games
4-3-3 with at least 2 up top and Sterling at the tip of the diamond

FM2015 should be out soon

D'Agger

NukaCola wrote: »

FM2015 should be out soon

Can people belittle your opinions in that game too? Haven't played it in years myself

NukaCola

D'Agger wrote: »

Can people belittle your opinions in that game too? Haven't played it in years myself

Forgot a smiley, nothing to get upset about, I'm sure slingerz wouldn't have anyway.

Augmerson

Whatever happened to that lad that Vincent Tan signed to be chief or procurement for Cardiff and his only qualifications were being Tan's son's mate and playing Football Manager?

mosstin

Augmerson wrote: »

Whatever happened to that lad that Vincent Tan signed to be chief or procurement for Cardiff and his only qualifications were being Tan's son's mate and playing Football Manager?

Little known this but he's presently our defensive coach.

K-9

So quarter of the way through the season, 7th, could be 5 points of relegation on Monday but yet 3 points of 4th! :eek:

Not great, probably Rafa last season type form when you count the CL, but the Cup romantics will love a LC S/F to look forward to, all going well. That must leave them a bit divided, not great in the league or CL, but what looks like a much beloved Cup run and S/F at Anfield, still CL knock out football in our hands.

Loads of negatives and some positives. We're consistently inconsistent anyway!

NukaCola

Augmerson wrote: »

Whatever happened to that lad that Vincent Tan signed to be chief or procurement for Cardiff and his only qualifications were being Tan's son's mate and playing Football Manager?

Lasted less than a month due to "Visa issues".
His name was Alisher Apsalyamov.

Augmerson

NukaCola wrote: »

Lasted less than a month due to "Visa issues".
His name was Alisher Apsalyamov.

Ah **** it, at least he has it on his CV.

Charlie19

I'm in the give Rodgers more time camp.

Results and performances this season have been fairly sh*** but last season was a breath of fresh air compared to the previous 3 or 4.

Its like he's trying to rediscover what his best system is and I think he persists with Mario up front alone because he's trying to have more players in the MF to try and prevent goals conceded.

At the end of day, I think we need more Southampton players;) (only 5 goals scored against them:eek:)

Kerrigooney

10 games gone and we're 8 points behind Southampton. Must be very annoying for Lallana,who despite playing well any time I've seen him can hardly get a game.

mosstin

Charlie19 wrote: »

I'm in the give Rodgers more time camp.

Results and performances this season have been fairly sh*** but last season was a breath of fresh air compared to the previous 3 or 4.

Its like he's trying to rediscover what his best system is and I think he persists with Mario up front alone because he's trying to have more players in the MF to try and prevent goals conceded.

At the end of day, I think we need more Southampton players;) (only 5 goals scored against them:eek:)

There really isn't a 'Rodgers Out' camp. Just lots of people justifiably pissed with substandard performances throughout the past couple of months.

mosstin

Kerrigooney wrote: »

10 games gone and we're 8 points behind Southampton. Must be very annoying for Lallana,who despite playing well any time I've seen him can hardly get a game.

I was over at Hull last weekend and he was poor.

Kerrigooney

Charlie19 wrote: »

I'm in the give Rodgers more time camp.

Results and performances this season have been fairly sh*** but last season was a breath of fresh air compared to the previous 3 or 4.

Its like he's trying to rediscover what his best system is and I think he persists with Mario up front alone because he's trying to have more players in the MF to try and prevent goals conceded.

At the end of day, I think we need more Southampton players;) (only 5 goals scored against them:eek:)

Maybe because we bought Lovren,who looks a complete liability,off them?

Kerrigooney

mosstin wrote: »

I was over at Hull last weekend and he was poor.

Any poorer than anyone else tho?

tok9

I only caught the first half which was a load of rubbish really.

I think most have covered the negatives.

The one thing that is wrecking my head is us persisting with this formation/players. Once Sturridge is back we should start playing with two up front again like it was against Spurs. Yet for some reason we are persisting with a formation that leaves Balotelli isolated and in no man's land a lot while also not helping the likes of Sterling.

It just makes no sense in persisting with these tactics when we are so likely to immediately change once Sturridge is back.

Pull the finger out Rodgers, massive week ahead.

Kerrigooney

tok9 wrote: »

Pull the finger out Rodgers, massive week ahead.

By this time next week we'll have had 3 defeats in a row...been a while since that happened

NukaCola

Kerrigooney wrote: »

By this time next week we'll have had 3 defeats in a row...been a while since that happened

Thats the spirit :pac:

Kerrigooney

NukaCola wrote: »

Thats the spirit :pac:

I'm a bit down in the dumps this evening. Sorry.

Watching Sanchez for Arsenal you can see why Rodgers wanted him. Would completely fit into the way Rodgers wants to play and could actually be a half decent replacement for Suarez.

Instead Ballotelli comes in who doesn't fit the style and system at all.

Augmerson

Kerrigooney wrote: »

I'm a bit down in the dumps this evening. Sorry.

If it's any consolation, Margaret Thatcher is still dead.

Kerrigooney

Augmerson wrote: »

If it's any consolation, Margaret Thatcher is still dead.

Has anyone checked the coffin lately?

Just to be sure like...

Soups123

Highlight just showing now on MOTD

Kerrigooney

Soups123 wrote: »

Highlight just showing now on MOTD

Highlight? You mean there was a highlight? I must have missed it.

yipeeeee

rarnes1 wrote: »

Watching Sanchez for Arsenal you can see why Rodgers wanted him. Would completely fit into the way Rodgers wants to play and could actually be a half decent replacement for Suarez.

Instead Ballotelli comes in who doesn't fit the style and system at all.

Half decent???

yipeeeee

yipeeeee wrote: »

Half decent???

Figure of speech

S. Goodspeed

rarnes1 wrote: »

Watching Sanchez for Arsenal you can see why Rodgers wanted him. Would completely fit into the way Rodgers wants to play and could actually be a half decent replacement for Suarez.

Instead Ballotelli comes in who doesn't fit the style and system at all.

Agree on Sanchez, quality player and I think we'd be looking a lot more like the team of last season if we had him. We found out pretty early on in the transfer window that he wasn't interested in us though so we should have had someone else (who's name doesn't begin with Mario..) lined up. Maybe Markovic was meant to be that guy which is even more worrying

D'Agger

NukaCola wrote: »

Forgot a smiley, nothing to get upset about, I'm sure slingerz wouldn't have anyway.

Muh bad!

Utopia Parkway

rarnes1 wrote: »

Watching Sanchez for Arsenal you can see why Rodgers wanted him. Would completely fit into the way Rodgers wants to play and could actually be a half decent replacement for Suarez.

Instead Ballotelli comes in who doesn't fit the style and system at all.

Yeah similar player to Suarez in that he keeps running and fighting no matter what. Not as good as Suarez but still about as good as a replacement as you could get.

Utopia Parkway

Utopia Parkway wrote: »

Yeah similar player to Suarez in that he keeps running and fighting no matter what. Not as good as Suarez but still about as good as a replacement as you could get.

He's already in double figures this season I think.

That's the sort of player we should have been signing after finishing 2nd last season. Not messing around picking up cheap scraps that nobody else really wants and wouldn't get into the other top 4 sides

JohnDaniels

Even if you want to stay away from reactionary responses to the current run of form due to a belief in the manager I think it's almost impossible for anyone to defend the transfer activity. When you start to examine the squad which Rodgers has built it looks very ordinary. How many of the players that have been brought in look capable of going on to play for one of the big two in Spain? Sturridge is the only one. I ask that because everyone keeps saying we are buying potential but how many of the players bought are just decent footballers whose potential is what they are now showing at Liverpool. No matter how much the likes of Allen, Lovren, Borini etc improve, they have a ceiling which everyone can see watching them. They are never going to be world beaters. If you fill your squad with average players then the performance we are watching is what will follow.

Shankly once said that you need eight players to carry the piano and three to play it. Last season we had two of the best players in the world hammering out the music supplemented by Sterling and others. Without them this season we have no one playing the music. Worst of all though I don't even think the guys Rodgers has assembled to carry the piano are that good. They got bailed out lots last season because the three were so good. Mignolet is not good enough, Lovren is terrible. Even looking at the starting midfield options, will any of them reach the kind of level that would interest the top two in Spain. At the moment we have lots of goodto decent player mixed with some players who are not good enough and never will be mixed with very few potentially world class players.

It is that lack of top level talent that is most worrying. Benitez at this stage had bought Torres, Alonso, Mascherano, Agger, Aurelio etc. Players that you could see had very high ceilings. In a way it's understandable how we have ended up in this position as we very quickly had to fill a very thin squad with lots of players. The squad is now fairly decent but it completely lacks the really top level talent needed within the first eleven.

Super-Rush

Its impossible to replace Suarez's trickery and goals but you don't need to be a world beater to actually press against a team and run yourself into the ground.

Every single time this season we just let teams knock the ball around among themselves knowing that we will just stand there and let them do it. Another thing that really pisses me off, is when an opposition player is running with the ball and the Liverpool player will run away from him to mark a free player rather than tackle him.

Both the players and the manager need to take long hard look at themselves. Rodgers with his crazy player and formation selections and the team with their lack of fight and willingness to put a shift in.

daithijjj

Super-Rush wrote: »

Its impossible to replace Suarez's trickery and goals but you don't need to be a world beater to actually press against a team and run yourself into the ground.

Every single time this season we just let teams knock the ball around among themselves knowing that we will just stand there and let them do it. Another thing that really pisses me off, is when an opposition player is running with the ball and the Liverpool player will run away from him to mark a free player rather than tackle him.

Both the players and the manager need to take long hard look at themselves. Rodgers with his crazy player and formation selections and the team with their lack of fight and willingness to put a shift in.

Perhaps some of the players dont believe in some of the decisions being made!.

Perhaps the lethargy creeping in is because we replaced selfless infectious energy up front with selfishness on the ball, miserable demeanour and hardly any goals! (not that its all Balotelli's problem).

Talisman

Steven Gerrard set to sign new long-term Liverpool contract

It's a sensational headline but I hope that FSG don't roll over on this, there's no room for sentiment in negotiating a contract extension with him. If the terms of the contract extension offered aren't acceptable then he can leave - it would also get Rodgers off the hook for having to drop him from the starting line-up.

Talisman

JohnDaniels wrote: »

Even if you want to stay away from reactionary responses to the current run of form due to a belief in the manager I think it's almost impossible for anyone to defend the transfer activity. When you start to examine the squad which Rodgers has built it looks very ordinary. How many of the players that have been brought in look capable of going on to play for one of the big two in Spain? Sturridge is the only one. I ask that because everyone keeps saying we are buying potential but how many of the players bought are just decent footballers whose potential is what they are now showing at Liverpool.

If the players are now showing their potential what were they doing last season?

wandatowell

Talisman wrote: »

there's no room for sentiment in negotiating a contract extension with him. If the terms of the contract extension offered aren't acceptable then he can leave - it would also get Rodgers off the hook for having to drop him from the starting line-up.

Gooner here,

Certain players, ala Gerrard are absolute icons that run through every layer of the club. There are very few players like him or will be in the future.

His level of performance/fitness whatever is on decline, everybody knows that but out of respect for him the club should do everything it can to make sure he stays.

Even more than that though Liverpool signing Gerard up for 2 or so more seasons and making the whole process as easy as possible sends out a message about respect, loyalty and appreciation.

Just the traits Liverpool would want to maintain....................as they slide down the table to midtable mediocrity (I'm joking of course)


I think those traits are very commendable and are quickly being eradicated from Football and most sports as the games become more and more dominated by money and short sightedness.