Liverpool FC Team Talk/Gossip/Rumours Thread 2014 - Mod Note in OP, 1/09

Damien360

There should be 2 possibilities for Gerard at the club.

High value rolling one year contract as giggs got at utd.

Or low yearly value but long term contract (3 years max).

Great servant to the club but he has had his day and now it is time to move aside. He should be looking at a supersub role rather than starter due to his low energy levels and age.

kippy

rarnes1 wrote: »

He's already in double figures this season I think.

That's the sort of player we should have been signing after finishing 2nd last season. Not messing around picking up cheap scraps that nobody else really wants and wouldn't get into the other top 4 sides

He didn't want to go to Liverpool. Not much the club can do about that to be fair.

Liverpool have had and will have issues attracting the top talent internationally.
Financially they are competing with far more powerful clubs for those signatures.

JohnDaniels

Talisman wrote: »

If the players are now showing their potential what were they doing last season?

What do you mean? I'm not saying that none of them are good enough. My post was pointing out that we are missing the jewels in the crown to complement the squad we have now built. Last season we had Suarez, Sturridge and Sterling blazing a trail. This season without Sturridge we completely lack that real top quality within the side. Coutinho hasn't found any consistent form. Sterling hasn't hit anywhere near last seasons heights but at his age these peaks and troughs are to be expected. I think that contrary to what is being said in the media Balotelli has done OK and worked hard but he is well short of offering the kind of xfactor last seasons attackers added. I do think some of the buys have been terrible like Lovren. Sahko may have had his ups and downs at Liverpool but he is the French starting cb for a reason. He has all the tools needed and I can see his potential ceiling as being very high yet the manager after spending a fortune on him, spends another fortune on Lovren who I think is a significant downgrade. Ultimately though even across midfield and the whole defense I can see very few players I would consider to have that world class potential which we badly need.

rob316

We need Sturridge back and get sterling through the middle that's the bottom line for me right now. That is the only way I see out of this current mess. We were always going to be a lesser team without suarez but the impact of Sturridge out too has been too much.

If we are looking for a striker in January I would go all out for bony, he would be a very good signing. If higuain is available and willing to come even better.
The club have to realise a top striker is the only way for us to finish in the top 4 and that should of been priority number one in the summer.

Barring a disastrous run rodgers has my backing.

kippy

kippy wrote: »

He didn't want to go to Liverpool. Not much the club can do about that to be fair.

Liverpool have had and will have issues attracting the top talent internationally.
Financially they are competing with far more powerful clubs for those signatures.

Oh I know Sanchez preferred Arsenal that's not even in question.

However, Liverpool could have signed him from a financial point of view. Money wasn't the issue was it? We spent the guts of 40m on Ballotelli and Markovic!

Talisman

JohnDaniels wrote: »

What do you mean?

You suggested that the players are now playing at their level of potential. Were they playing at a better or worse level last year? If they were better then it stands to reason that they are not currently playing at their level of potential.

kingshankly

Just looking at the table there just noticed southampton have conceded only 5 goals 1/2 as many as the next best defence
Really are missing loveran

mosstin

In all the pissing and moaning yesterday I recall a poster mentioning Koeman as a potential replacement for Rodgers. You couldn't make this **** up. That's the same Koeman who's having a ten game stretch as good as ours is bad, but it's JUST ten games.
Perhaps it was tongue in cheek but given the knee jerkery on here, I wasn't sure.

JohnDaniels

Talisman wrote: »

You suggested that the players are now playing at their level of potential. Were they playing at a better or worse level last year? If they were better then it stands to reason that they are not currently playing at their level of potential.

I'm not talking in terms of form. I went on to explain what I meant in the next couple of lines in the post you quoted. For example I know Sterling has a really high ceiling even if his form isn't great at the moment. Some of the players we have brought in you know even at the top of their game are just going to be good solid players. I think every team that isn't the likes of Real Madrid needs those players in the team\squad but around them especially in the first 11 you need real top level talent. We have added numbers to the squad but have added very little established or even potential piano players.

duffman13

mosstin wrote: »

In all the pissing and moaning yesterday I recall a poster mentioning Koeman as a potential replacement for Rodgers. You couldn't make this **** up. That's the same Koeman who's having a ten game stretch as good as ours is bad, but it's JUST ten games.
Perhaps it was tongue in cheek but given the knee jerkery on here, I wasn't sure.

Koeman has won the eredevisie a few times and has signed fairly well in the summer. He will be linked with big jobs at the end of this season IMO however he has only ever really managed Benfica and Valencia outside Holland and both of those went tits up.

There was one particular year were he got off to a stunning start with PSV and they faded horrendously before scrapping the title on the final day. Has a history of starting strong and fading.

mosstin

mosstin wrote: »

In all the pissing and moaning yesterday I recall a poster mentioning Koeman as a potential replacement for Rodgers. You couldn't make this **** up. That's the same Koeman who's having a ten game stretch as good as ours is bad, but it's JUST ten games.
Perhaps it was tongue in cheek but given the knee jerkery on here, I wasn't sure.

Football fans are the most fickle fans in the world.

The match going fans are right behind Rodgers are they are the only ones that matter really. Lose them and you're fcuked. However, it'd take a pretty disasterous season for that to happen.

djPSB

rarnes1 wrote: »

Football fans are the most fickle fans in the world.

The match going fans are right behind Rodgers are they are the only ones that matter really. Lose them and you're fcuked. However, it'd take a pretty disasterous season for that to happen.

Every manager will have a run where things aren't going too well.

Klopp a perfect example at Dortmund.

JohnDaniels

Klopp has the kind of quality in that Dortmund side that our squad can only dream about. Ultimately I'm not sure that Rodgers has built a squad capable of turning this around. Managers generally end up living or dieing based on transfers. Even if bad decisions don't directly kill you, the poor tools you have given yourself will eventually make the job an impossible task even if you are the most gifted coach in the world.

Oranage2

Would a director of football help Liverpool , somebody to make signings?

JohnDaniels

Oranage2 wrote: »

Would a director of football help Liverpool , somebody to make signings?

We have some kind of transfer committee. Who knows what goes on. I mean we had all that messing with Sahin who the manager clearly didn't sign. It looks very much like Sakho was not a Rodgers buy and he ended up getting his man in Lovren with more control this summer. The buys that you would think were really pushed by him, Lovren, Allen, Borini etc have generally been average. I'm not sure though it's helpful to dilute blame and we don't know anyway what has went on so I think you just need to judge the business as a whole and say the buck stops with the manager. He has said on a number of occasions that he won't work directly under a DOF.

Turtyturd

Oranage2 wrote: »

Would a director of football help Liverpool , somebody to make signings?

Can he score goals?

Gbear

djPSB wrote: »

Every manager will have a run where things aren't going too well.

Klopp a perfect example at Dortmund.

Or Rodgers in his first season.

Vicxas

My problem is just with how much we've regressed since last season. There's no pace in our team at all.

djPSB

djPSB wrote: »

Every manager will have a run where things aren't going too well.

Klopp a perfect example at Dortmund.

That's it.

We are missing the goals from last season and that's about it. Goals conceded is probably at a similar enough level as last season.

Still though, it was obvious we weren't going to score as many as last season so we had to tighten up at the back or sign a top class goalscorer. We did neither.

rob316

Oranage2 wrote: »

Would a director of football help Liverpool , somebody to make signings?

In essence this the problem who is signing the players? This transfer committee is the biggest load of bs ever, it should be the manager or a dof that signs the players.

Surely rodgers would have preferred 3 or 4 top class players over 8 mixed level players. Sure we needed numbers but there is alot to be said for having 3 players massively contributing over 8 with only average input.

mada999

Demosthenese wrote: »

True ... team have sussed us out since Villa showed them how to do it time and time again. Block the midfield. Stop Gerard on the ball and leave Skrtel and Lovren on the ball as much as they like.

... so simple but effective. We are not the first team to have this done to us so need to counteract it. Doesn't matter though about 3-5-2 4-1-2-1 etc though if we cant earn our right in the game. No aggression no tempo is unacceptable at this level. The absolute minimum we should expect from a game like this is 100% effort. Can any player say they gave that today!

midfield is brutal, exact same as England in the WC.. too predictable...no movement, no pass and move at all...too static...

1 up front does not work at all shíte signings in the summer as well... so far anyway.. Last summer was the chance to build upon a good team by buying proven players... but we went out and gambled on potential

Hangballlouie

rarnes1 wrote: »

Football fans are the most fickle fans in the world.

The match going fans are right behind Rodgers are they are the only ones that matter really. Lose them and you're fcuked. However, it'd take a pretty disasterous season for that to happen.

As you would well know pal, that is changing.

JohnDaniels

Good article by Andy Heaton - http://www.theanfieldwrap.com/2014/11/time-cut-bull****-fight-battles-pitch/?wt=5

Boards doesn't seem to like one of the words in the link but it's the article titled 'Time to cut.......'

Chucky the tree

rossie1977 wrote: »

brave prediction considering liverpool have sacked 2 managers over the past 4 years after the club finished 7th and 8th and neither of them had spent the kind of money during the summer rodgers has.

Nothing brave about it really. If Kenny finished second the previous season he wouldn't have been sacked either.

Mr Alan wrote: »

See below post....



Plus there is nothing "moneyball" about signings like Lovren, Mignolet, Sakho, Lallana, Markovic, Allen, Aspas.

They're actually nothing like "money ball" signings...they're players signed for fees that even if they're a relative success at Liverpool, they'll never be worth as much as when we bought them.

It's FSG version of money ball. They don't look at just the transfer fee because that really makes no sense. They look at the transfer fee and the wages over the course of the contract.

smileyj1987

rarnes1 wrote: »

Football fans are the most fickle fans in the world.

The match going fans are right behind Rodgers are they are the only ones that matter really. Lose them and you're fcuked. However, it'd take a pretty disasterous season for that to happen.

In fairness it took a few months for them to turn on Roy so BR does have time on his side !!!

Harry Palmr

JohnDaniels wrote: »

Good article by Andy Heaton - http://www.theanfieldwrap.com/2014/11/time-cut-bull****-fight-battles-pitch/?wt=5

Boards doesn't seem to like one of the words in the link but it's the article titled 'Time to cut.......'

That article seems to have been removed, there is a link but it opens a different article.

edit got it.

Liverpool somehow still ahead of Man Utd, City were a bit rubbish. Its a terrible league!

hadepsx

...

SuperTortoise

The thing that's most concerning for me in the games we've played up to now is the lack of pressing and closing down when we don't have possession, that was a crucial part of our game last season that urgency to win the ball back and counter with pace.
Has Rodgers instructed the players to not do this because of the extra workload of games this season? If so that needs to change or we could be playing for nothing as early as Christmas IMO.

Chucky the tree

JohnDaniels wrote: »

Even if you want to stay away from reactionary responses to the current run of form due to a belief in the manager I think it's almost impossible for anyone to defend the transfer activity. When you start to examine the squad which Rodgers has built it looks very ordinary. How many of the players that have been brought in look capable of going on to play for one of the big two in Spain? Sturridge is the only one. I ask that because everyone keeps saying we are buying potential but how many of the players bought are just decent footballers whose potential is what they are now showing at Liverpool. No matter how much the likes of Allen, Lovren, Borini etc improve, they have a ceiling which everyone can see watching them. They are never going to be world beaters. If you fill your squad with average players then the performance we are watching is what will follow.

Shankly once said that you need eight players to carry the piano and three to play it. Last season we had two of the best players in the world hammering out the music supplemented by Sterling and others. Without them this season we have no one playing the music. Worst of all though I don't even think the guys Rodgers has assembled to carry the piano are that good. They got bailed out lots last season because the three were so good. Mignolet is not good enough, Lovren is terrible. Even looking at the starting midfield options, will any of them reach the kind of level that would interest the top two in Spain. At the moment we have lots of goodto decent player mixed with some players who are not good enough and never will be mixed with very few potentially world class players.

It is that lack of top level talent that is most worrying. Benitez at this stage had bought Torres, Alonso, Mascherano, Agger, Aurelio etc. Players that you could see had very high ceilings. In a way it's understandable how we have ended up in this position as we very quickly had to fill a very thin squad with lots of players. The squad is now fairly decent but it completely lacks the really top level talent needed within the first eleven.

Coutinho looks like he has the potential to be a very good player. Bit of a contradiction in the bolded parts? I think in terms of depth our squad is a good as it has been in a long time but as you say it lacks that top level talent.

joe123

Anyone that is calling for Rodgers to be sacked on the 2nd November, while our main striker has missed the last two months, needs a serious dose of cop the **** on.

Its crazy how quickly the supporters forget. Knee jerkery of the highest order. I am sure there will be calls for Koeman to get the job. :rolleyes:

joe123

joe123 wrote: »

Anyone that is calling for Rodgers to be sacked on the 2nd November, while our main striker has missed the last two months, needs a serious dose of cop the **** on.

Its crazy how quickly the supporters forget. Knee jerkery of the highest order. I am sure there will be calls for Koeman to get the job. :rolleyes:

Already done afaik :pac:

huey1975

We thought we had stripped southampton of anything worth having, and then they produce koeman and pelle

Vicxas

huey1975 wrote: »

We thought we had stripped southampton of anything worth having, and then they produce koeman and pelle

I will wait until the second half of the season to judge anything, we all know second half form can be hard to hit

Utopia Parkway

huey1975 wrote: »

We thought we had stripped southampton of anything worth having, and then they produce koeman and pelle

In fairness Southampton were flying at this time last year as well and eventually fell away. Always better to judge over the course of the season.

Mr Alan

Chucky the tree wrote: »

It's FSG version of money ball. They don't look at just the transfer fee because that really makes no sense. They look at the transfer fee and the wages over the course of the contract.

Nonsense. You think these players are on peanuts.

Our transfer activity the last couple of years has been truly horrendous. There is absolutely no justifying or defending it in any way.

JohnDaniels

Chucky the tree wrote: »

Coutinho looks like he has the potential to be a very good player. Bit of a contradiction in the bolded parts? I think in terms of depth our squad is a good as it has been in a long time but as you say it lacks that top level talent.

Not really. What I meant is that the squad is quite ordinary but that isn't a bad thing if you have it supplemented with some real top level talent. We have loads of piano carriers and no one to play it. If you look at the tiny squad we had last season and the ratio of top level players within it to potential or just solid good players it's quite high. We have increased the squad hugely but that ratio is now very low. Not only did we lose Suarez and not directly replace him but we increased the numbers without really adding any top level players. How does Rodgers fix that? I very much doubt FSG after the money he has spent will fork out for a couple of marquee signings.

marklazarcovic

Mr Alan wrote: »

Nonsense. You think these players are on peanuts.

Our transfer activity the last couple of years has been truly horrendous. There is absolutely no justifying or defending it in any way.

the thing alan,that a lot forget is that you can only sign players that are willing to sign for you,signing mercenary players we just cant afford,so we try another way.


its prob the hardest way with any club of ambition,not defending the signings by any stretch,just pointing out thats its not a simple as your maybe making out... i.e .. sign better players.. well ya,if they will sign.

Chucky the tree

Mr Alan wrote: »

Nonsense. You think these players are on peanuts.

Our transfer activity the last couple of years has been truly horrendous. There is absolutely no justifying or defending it in any way.

They are compared to world class player. Lallana, Lovern, Sakho, Manquilo and Markovic probably equal the same yearly cost in wages as Di Maria for example.

LiamoSail

Mr Alan wrote: »

Nonsense. You think these players are on peanuts.

Our transfer activity the last couple of years has been truly horrendous. There is absolutely no justifying or defending it in any way.

Our transfer spending over the last couple of years has been nothing but consistent with what it was before that. We've always been ****e in the market. From Collymore to Crouch to Carroll to now. There's always been exceptions; Torres, Suarez, Alonso, Hyypia etc, but by and large, we're just doing what we normally do in the market

Chucky the tree

JohnDaniels wrote: »

Not really. What I meant is that the squad is quite ordinary but that isn't a bad thing if you have it supplemented with some real top level talent. We have loads of piano carriers and no one to play it. If you look at the tiny squad we had last season and the ratio of top level players within it to potential or just solid good players it's quite high. We have increased the squad hugely but that ratio is now very low. Not only did we lose Suarez and not directly replace him but we increased the numbers without really adding any top level players. How does Rodgers fix that? I very much doubt FSG after the money he has spent will fork out for a couple of marquee signings.

It's not like FSG just gave him £100m+ and told him to spend it however he wants.

LiamoSail

marklazarcovic wrote: »

the thing alan,that a lot forget is that you can only sign players that are willing to sign for you,signing mercenary players we just cant afford,so we try another way.


its prob the hardest way with any club of ambition,not defending the signings by any stretch,just pointing out thats its not a simple as your maybe making out... i.e .. sign better players.. well ya,if they will sign.

Mercenary players? The likes of DiMaria is no more a mercenary than the likes of Markovic. Players will always gravitate towards the best terms for themselves, it just so happens DiMaria is further up the pecking order and so can demand more

Mr Alan

Can we just clarify something.

Are people genuinely trying to suggest, we're actually making the best use of our transfer fees & wages with the players we've brought in over the last couple of years?

Granted we can't pay every player £250k, but we are paying big transfer fees & big wages for ****e.

People need to stop excusing it.

Chucky the tree

Mr Alan wrote: »

Can we just clarify something.

Are people genuinely trying to suggest, we're actually making the best use of our transfer fees & wages with the players we've brought in over the last couple of years?

Granted we can't pay every player £250k, but we are paying big transfer fees & big wages for ****e.

People need to stop excusing it.

Who's getting paid big wages?

Chucky the tree

Chucky the tree wrote: »

Who's getting paid big wages?

Glen fcuking Johnson!!

Nearly broke the TV yesterday because of him, on a few occasions!

Mr Alan

Chucky the tree wrote: »

Who's getting paid big wages?

When you take into account cost versus what is being contributed, pretty much anyone bought in the last 2 years.

Mr Alan

Chucky the tree wrote: »

Who's getting paid big wages?

You didn't answer my question, why are you defending our ****e activity in the transfer market?

Rodgers has spent nearly a quarter of a billion pound on players & we have one of the highest wage bills in the league.

We should be doing much better than we are. Moaning about lack of money is cringeworthy.

Agent Coulson

Since FSG took control of Liverpool they have given Kenny & Brendan combined £325m buying 30 players.

5 maybe 6 of those players could be deemed a success for the guts of £100m.

I would have rather seen maybe another 5/6 player brought in for the other £200m that would have covered transfers and wages.

FSG aren't afraid to splash the cash it has just been splashed on the wrong players.

Chucky the tree

rarnes1 wrote: »

Glen fcuking Johnson!!

Nearly broke the TV yesterday because of him, on a few occasions!

I meant in the new players signed.

Mr Alan wrote: »

When you take into account cost versus what is being contributed, pretty much anyone bought in the last 2 years.

Contributing to a second place finish you mean?

Mr Alan wrote: »

You didn't answer my question, why are you defending our ****e activity in the transfer market?

Rodgers has spent nearly a quarter of a billion pound on players & we have one of the highest wage bills in the league.

We should be doing much better than we are. Moaning about lack of money is cringeworthy.

And we finished 2nd in the league. I'd say we have the 5th highest wage bill at the moment, we're currently 7th so hardly a huge variation between the two.

JohnDaniels

First media focused article that I have seen on his transfer record just appeared. This is the start of the storm that is coming his way unless things turn around quick.

https://uk.eurosport.yahoo.com/blogs/pitchside-europe/£215-2m-spent-and-two-hits--deconstructing-brendan-rodgers--awful-transfer-record-at-liverpool-125059097.html

Mr Alan

Chucky the tree wrote: »

Contributing to a second place finish you mean?

This is the funny thing.

Of Rodgers signings, only Sturridge made a really significant contribution to our second place finish. The main reason for second was Suarez, Gerrard, Sterling & Henderson (who Rodgers wanted rid of for £2.5m iirc)

Chucky The Tree wrote:

And we finished 2nd in the league. I'd say we have the 5th highest wage bill at the moment, we're currently 7th so hardly a huge variation between the two.

Source for the wage bill please.

Where are we on transfer spend. Surely that should be considered? When assessing the efficiency with which a teams finances are being utilised?

It really sounds like your saying we're doing about as well as could be expected in the transfer market?!