Liverpool FC Team Talk/Gossip/Rumours Thread 2014 - Mod Note in OP, 1/09

SlickRic

Liverpool have none of the top 50 players in the world according to FIFA 15.

Suarez is there, but I think Sturridge can feel a little hard done by at this stage.

not that it matters, obviously.

http://www.theguardian.com/technology/2014/sep/08/football-50-best-footballers-fifa-15?CMP=twt_gu

greendom

Kess73 wrote: »

Be interesting to see if Hodgson and the English FA would try to force Gerrard or another recently retired player into having to play for the national team.


Just noticed how UEFA have gotten involved in a similar scenario with regards to Ribery, and some years back there was a similar situation with Makale when he was at Chelsea.

Could not see the UEFA threat against Ribery standing up against Emplyment law, but the fact that Platini was willing to openly comment on how a player should be banned from club football if he did not turn up for his country (even if the player had retired from International footy) does suggest that he would be a worthy successor to Blatter at some point.

I think the intention is more to protect international squads from clubs who may try to put pressure on their players to not play for their national side.

To suggest he is anything close to the completely corrupt level of Blatter is very far from the mark imo.

T-K-O

SlickRic wrote: »

Liverpool have none of the top 50 players in the world according to FIFA 15.

Suarez is there, but I think Sturridge can feel a little hard done by at this stage.

not that it matters, obviously.

http://www.theguardian.com/technology/2014/sep/08/football-50-best-footballers-fifa-15?CMP=twt_gu

clicked on the link and saw,

50. Giorgio Chiellini – Juventus (Italy)

That''ll do pig

gafferino

Rafa turned down Madrid twice when with us apparently.

http://hereisthecity.com/en-gb/2014/09/08/ib-benitez-rejected-real-madrid-opportunity-whilst-at-liverpool/?

SuperTortoise

SlickRic wrote: »

Liverpool have none of the top 50 players in the world according to FIFA 15.

Suarez is there, but I think Sturridge can feel a little hard done by at this stage.

not that it matters, obviously.

http://www.theguardian.com/technology/2014/sep/08/football-50-best-footballers-fifa-15?CMP=twt_gu

The programmers are either:
1. Everton/Manu fans
2. Liverpool fans undervalueing our players so barca don't come in with 100m in January!

Could'nt help but laugh at some of those inclusions.

LuckyLloyd

The rule regarding Ribery is vital for International football to be protected. Otherwise the pressure placed on African / South American / Asian players hailing from low ranking players to retire from International Football would be immense and intolerable.

I know there is a bizarre hate for International football in this thread, but FIFA knows what the pinnacle of its game is and have been careful to protect same.

Kess73

LuckyLloyd wrote: »

The rule regarding Ribery is vital for International football to be protected. Otherwise the pressure placed on African / South American / Asian players hailing from low ranking players to retire from International Football would be immense and intolerable.

I know there is a bizarre hate for International football in this thread, but FIFA knows what the pinnacle of its game is and have been careful to protect same.

So a player cannot retire from International football? That would seems pretty idiotic to me. Surely a player should be able to retire if he likes, and then if he wanted to make himself available for selection again he could do so like Given recently did.

Really don't see any advantage in trying to threaten a player who has retired from the International game with a club level ban unless he returns to the International fold.


No idea how thinking that equates to having a bizarre hate for the International game either.

Connavar

Kess73 wrote: »

Really don't see any advantage in trying to threaten a player who has retired from the International game with a club level ban unless he returns to the International fold.

Especially when the player could just show up and purposely do nothing/play badly

Kess73

Connavar wrote: »

Especially when the player could just show up and purposely do nothing/play badly

Exactly.


Makes more sense to me to have the best players who want to play for their country, rather than to force back players who have decided, for whatever reason, that their time playing for their country is up.

whatawaster

LuckyLloyd wrote: »

The rule regarding Ribery is vital for International football to be protected. Otherwise the pressure placed on African / South American / Asian players hailing from low ranking players to retire from International Football would be immense and intolerable.

I know there is a bizarre hate for International football in this thread, but FIFA knows what the pinnacle of its game is and have been careful to protect same.

One player being forced to play for his country against his will is just as obscene as a player being forced/pressurised not to play for his country.

LuckyLloyd

Kess73 wrote: »

So a player cannot retire from International football? That would seems pretty idiotic to me. Surely a player should be able to retire if he likes, and then if he wanted to make himself available for selection again he could do so like Given recently did.

Really don't see any advantage in trying to threaten a player who has retired from the International game with a club level ban unless he returns to the International fold.


No idea how thinking that equates to having a bizarre hate for the International game either.

No, because otherwise we'd see lots of African / Asian / American players in the employ of European clubs retiring for 'personal reasons'.

And while this specific debate doesn't indicate a bizarre hate for the International game, the general posting and conversation in this thread about the International game definitely does. Do you deny same?

whatawaster wrote: »

One player being forced to play for his country against his will is just as obscene as a player being forced/pressurised not to play for his country.

Sure, but the issue isn't the rule the issue is potentially Dechamps and the French FA utilising it in an inappropriate way.

Kess73

LuckyLloyd wrote: »

No, because otherwise we'd see lots of African / Asian / American players in the employ of European clubs retiring for 'personal reasons'.

And while this specific debate doesn't indicate a bizarre hate for the International game, the general posting and conversation in this thread about the International game definitely does. Do you deny same?



Sure, but the issue isn't the rule the issue is potentially Dechamps and the French FA utilising it in an inappropriate way.

If a player wants to value his club football over playing for his country, if that really a player you would want to see lining up in his national team?


If Platini wants to throw his and UEFA's weight around over Ribery (and the same was done over Makale as well) then if he wants to be seen as consistent then he should be coming out and saying the exact same things about lesser player. Stephen Ireland for example does not want to play for Ireland, but I don't see Platini saying that UEFA should ban Stephen Ireland or any other lesser player for not playing for their country.

Have a feeling that no fuss will be made over low profile players from smaller nations.

Dickerty

LuckyLloyd wrote: »

No, because otherwise we'd see lots of African / Asian / American players in the employ of European clubs retiring for 'personal reasons'.

I am sure there is lots of pressure on African players to withdraw every time the African nations comes around, yet they all go and play anyway, because they WANT to represent their country.

But that is their choice, and should not be enforced on them...

BenEadir

Dickerty wrote: »

You don't have a contract for your country like you do for your club, so they have no real hold on you...

do they not hold your registration as a player and have the power to ban you from playing in any competitions subject to their rules/jurisdiction?

I do think it's mad that you can't retire if you want to but if you think about it if they did allow players to retire it wouldn't be long before clubs started putting pressure on players to retire and soon there wouldn't be an international scene or it would effectively become a 2nd rate standard of football as the best players would be retired.

At least with the current system (imperfect as it is) players can't be put under pressure by the clubs to retire.

ArmaniJeanss

As I see it the rule is there to prevent Pedro Panama being told by his club that they could maybe offer him 3 years at €2K a week, dependent on him no longer disappearing off to Central America for international games 8 times a year. The club realise they can't demand this because they know under this rule that the Panama FA can just call the player up regardless.

So it's there to protect the vulnerable mid/lower tier player from the unfashionable country. Its a good rule but its a fairly big misuse of the spirit of it that an association like the FFR would use it on an injury prone older player like Ribery.

BenEadir

Kess73 wrote: »

Makes more sense to me to have the best players who want to play for their country, rather than to force back players who have decided, for whatever reason, that their time playing for their country is up.

I think FIFA's big concern is that if they officially permitted voluntary retirement clubs would quickly build into contracts that players must refrain from all football activity other than for the club and if that happened the international game would die a quick death.

Gbear

BenThere wrote: »

do they not hold your registration as a player and have the power to ban you from playing in any competitions subject to their rules/jurisdiction?

I do think it's mad that you can't retire if you want to but if you think about it if they did allow players to retire it wouldn't be long before clubs started putting pressure on players to retire and soon there wouldn't be an international scene or it would effectively become a 2nd rate standard of football as the best players would be retired.

At least with the current system (imperfect as it is) players can't be put under pressure by the clubs to retire.

But that's what the club did with Gerrard. He stated explicitly that Rodgers told him he'd "tailor" his game time if he kept playing with England. He probably would've retired anyway given his age but you can see how a similar situation that might be a bit less clear cut (like Lahm deciding to retire despite only being 30).

And he has every right to do so. The clubs pay his wages. They shouldn't be able to outright ban players from competing but there's no reason why they should have to bend over backwards to accommodate international football either.

Gbear

BenThere wrote: »

I think FIFA's big concern is that if they officially permitted voluntary retirement clubs would quickly build into contracts that players must refrain from all football activity other than for the club and if that happened the international game would die a quick death.

Top players pretty much hold all the cards here.

Most of them want to play international football so it's not going to be a factor - they won't sign contracts that restrict their ability to play international games, but even if they didn't and it did start to undermine the international game, it's not up to FIFA or UEFA to decide what level of football players ought to be interested in.

greendom

Gbear wrote: »

Top players pretty much hold all the cards here.

Most of them want to play international football so it's not going to be a factor - they won't sign contracts that restrict their ability to play international games, but even if they didn't and it did start to undermine the international game, it's not up to FIFA or UEFA to decide what level of football players ought to be interested in.

They obviously feel it is, otherwise Platini wouldn't have spoken.

Dickerty

BenThere wrote: »

I think FIFA's big concern is that if they officially permitted voluntary retirement clubs would quickly build into contracts that players must refrain from all football activity other than for the club and if that happened the international game would die a quick death.

But do you not think that enough players want to pay for their country, and that player power would stop that from becoming a reality?

BenEadir

Gbear wrote: »

They shouldn't be able to outright ban players from competing

but that's exactly what would happen if voluntary retirement was officially recognised by FIFA. You'd very quickly have situations where £X per week is available if you exclusively play for [insert name of club] or £Y er week if you don't want to commit exclusively to playing for [insert name of club] with £Y being a lot less than £X.

The current situation is a fudge in that the law is there but is rarely used. It's a cold war solution which keeps the clubs in check more so than the actual players it's technically aimed at.

If a player reaches a certain age or has had a lot of injuries or has other genuine circumstances which mean playing for his country isn't the right thing for him I can't see any national association or manager forcing the issue by calling him up or for that matter calling up a player who has a broken relationship with the national association (Stephen Ireland), it just doesn't make sense. The rule is there so an eligible player can't be put in a situation where he has to choose between club or country and in the absence of a better solution it's probably there to stay.

BenEadir

Gbear wrote: »

FIFA or UEFA to decide what level of football players ought to be interested in.

As the governing body they are there to regulate the game so it's absolutely within their jurisdiction to make whatever rules they think are needed to ensure all levels of the game thrive. If free market rules were applied to football International football would become amateur tournaments in a short number of years. Rightly or wrongly FIFA/UEFA will do whatever it takes to make sure that doesn't happen

BenEadir

Dickerty wrote: »

But do you not think that enough players want to pay for their country, and that player power would stop that from becoming a reality?

No I don't. Player power is vested in individual players, not as a collective. Do you really think players outside the top 50 in any country are going to do anything meaningful to ensure International football continues? Why would they fight and risk losing income etc for the right to do something they themselves will never be invited to do i.e. play for their country.

Closer to home we have a similar tussle in relation to the GAA inter provincial competition. 80 years ago The Railway cup used to draw huge crowds and be a highlight of the sporting calendar, now they can barely scrap a squad of players together and they play in front of an empty stadium because in the battle between club + county + province it was the province (infrequent play and commercially weak) which lost out.

If market forces are given free reign in football International football as we know it i.e. thw World Cup and European Championships with the best players in the world desperate to play in them etc will become non events.

Same thing happened to the FA Cup to a certain extent.

Thud

Rooney is a Sterling fan:
http://www.theguardian.com/football/blog/2014/sep/07/raheem-sterling-wayne-rooney-england-switzerland-euro-2016?

Dickerty

BenThere wrote: »

As the governing body they are there to regulate the game so it's absolutely within their jurisdiction to make whatever rules they think are needed to ensure all levels of the game thrive. If free market rules were applied to football International football would become amateur tournaments in a short number of years. Rightly or wrongly FIFA/UEFA will do whatever it takes to make sure that doesn't happen

FIFA, UEFA and the rest are in the same place. They make huge money from International tournaments, corporate sponsorships, TV money and gate receipts going to the local FAs.

So they will continue to ensure that every players is milked for both club and country...

Dickerty

BenThere wrote: »

If market forces are given free reign in football International football as we know it i.e. thw World Cup and European Championships with the best players in the world desperate to play in them etc will become non events.

Same thing happened to the FA Cup to a certain extent.

See my last post - FIFA, UEFA and the rest won't let that happen. There is enough appetite for both to continue as-is.

And the FA Cup only suffers where there is a conflict with another big club fixture and a decision has to be made. But International games take place in designated breaks, so there is no such conflict...

BenEadir

Dickerty wrote: »

See my last post - FIFA, UEFA and the rest won't let that happen. There is enough appetite for both to continue as-is.

I agree, that is after all the entire reason they exist!!

Dickerty wrote: »

And the FA Cup only suffers where there is a conflict with another big club fixture

Totally disagree with that. I guarantee you we don't play our best eleven in any FA cup match this year. Players will be selectively rested to give priority to the league. I have no issue with that, it's smart management and we all know the league is the big ambition but that just confirms the fact that the FA cup has become a 2nd tier competition Vs the EPL.

Interestingly in GAA it's the opposite, the league is the also ran/rest your best players/try out new players competition whereas the cup is the big competition in each respective sport.

Tusky

SlickRic wrote: »

Liverpool have none of the top 50 players in the world according to FIFA 15.

Suarez is there, but I think Sturridge can feel a little hard done by at this stage.

not that it matters, obviously.

http://www.theguardian.com/technology/2014/sep/08/football-50-best-footballers-fifa-15?CMP=twt_gu

It will be interesting to see how good they make Sterling. He was 79 in the last game but has come on so much since then. Sturridge should certainly be in the top 50 - pretty disappointing. Not that it matters, obviously. :pac:

googled eyes

Hendo and Sterling are both goona play and get injured tonight aren't they ....

gafferino

googled eyes wrote: »

Hendo and Sterling are both goona play and get injured tonight aren't they ....

Grayditch

Most worthless cause to give your legs for, since Vietnam.

whatawaster

Tusky wrote: »

It will be interesting to see how good they make Sterling. He was 79 in the last game but has come on so much since then. Sturridge should certainly be in the top 50 - pretty disappointing. Not that it matters, obviously. :pac:

I'd find it hard to name 50 players better than Sterling.

BenEadir

whatawaster wrote: »

I'd find it hard to name 50 players better than Sterling.

In the whole world right now!!!

Dont be at yourself

Can we please skip the impending back-and-forth about Sterling's ability, the listing of superior players and the debate about the definition of 'world class'?

5live

Dont be at yourself wrote: »

Can we please skip the impending back-and-forth about Sterling's ability, the listing of superior players and the debate about the definition of 'world class'?

*unfollow thread*


;-)

ASOT

Tusky wrote: »

It will be interesting to see how good they make Sterling. He was 79 in the last game but has come on so much since then. Sturridge should certainly be in the top 50 - pretty disappointing. Not that it matters, obviously. :pac:

The leaked ratings that came out last month by people who played the game said sterling was only. Obviously the ratings in that arent final but it wouldnt surprise me if they were considering Sturridge isnt in the top 50 so we have no players over 84. Drogba is 83, one point behind Sturridge which is laughable. The ratings are a joke.

murpho999

Dont be at yourself wrote: »

Can we please skip the impending back-and-forth about Sterling's ability, the listing of superior players and the debate about the definition of 'world class'?

I don't know, it's all over the news that Sterling has dropped because of Scotland concerns so I'm totally confused.

Finical

Confirmed Hendo starts.

Grayditch

It'll be the equivalent of watching your child run around the room with a head-height coffee table sticking out at an angle.

Utopia Parkway

Hope Henderson is actually OK and this isn't Hodgson pushing him out there regardless.

Soft Falling Rain

Finical wrote: »

Confirmed Hendo starts.

The version of that gif where Woy turns into Rafa is quite epic.

ASOT

Soft Falling Rain wrote: »

The version of that gif where Woy turns into Rafa is quite epic.

So so good!

MR NINE

If henderson gets injured tonight theres gonna be a serious amount of hatred heading hodgsons way. Itd probably be unfair criticism in the sense that if it was another manager in charge, say capello or erikson, the level of hatred wouldnt be nearly the same. But it really is infuriating how his decisions still impact on liverpools fortunes, albeit in a far slighter way than they used to. If it wasnt for the idiotic comments itd be more bearable, but the thing he said about wanting to test sturridges resolve as his reason for playing him through injury in a meaningless friendly has really dug his grave for reactions from liverpool fans when uses or misuses their players.

Francie Barrett

Grayditch wrote: »

It'll be the equivalent of watching your child run around the room with a head-height coffee table sticking out at an angle.

With a scalding cup of tea perched just on the edge.

It's gone beyond a joke at this stage. Either Woy is genuinely vindictive towards this football club, or else he's even more grossly incompetent than even we thought he could be.

klose

The hodge using a midfield diamond, hes so innovative.

djPSB

klose wrote: »

The hodge using a midfield diamond, hes so innovative.

How to turn a diamond into a big pile of sh1t.

osnola ibax

I takethe rumor that D Studge D being out for 4 months is complete horsey doo doo

rob316

Nice assist for sterling.

klose

Sterling has had a poor enough game but hes still probably been englands most creative player.

Raif Severance

Why does Hodgson plays Wilshire as a Holding Midfielder?

I mean, if he wants someone Young, then why not just get Everton's McCarthy, who can actually play that Role?