Liverpool FC Team Talk/Gossip/Rumours Thread 2014 - Mod Note in OP, 1/09

osnola ibax

I'm kind of glad Liverpool won't be challenging for the title this season, it means I won't need to take up residence behind the sofa

Harry Palmr

The Tally Ho publishes the thoughts of Chairman Gerrard

http://www.liverpoolfc.com/news/latest-news/171128-gerrard-i-won-t-let-things-fizzle-out?

No accident it appears this morning.

Gerrard so far this season as compared to last, that wedge at the bottom is pretty damning.

klose

LuckyLloyd wrote: »

Running some worst case scenarios over in my mind. What would people say to a season along the lines of:

~60 point season
CL group elimination
No Cup achievements

?

That's what we look like right now tbh. I'm not sure Rodgers would survive that unfortunately.

I think it would be harsh, hes spent two years implimenting his style and his recruitment drive is with an eye to the future aswell as the present so i would like to see the the team develop under him. Weve a lot of players bedding in, injuries and players out of form so ill personally wait for a larger sample size to start making possoble predicitons.

john why

osnola ibax wrote: »

I'm kind of glad Liverpool won't be challenging for the title this season, it means I won't need to take up residence behind the sofa

So you'd be happy with 6th 7th or 10th place, clown

T-K-O

hefferboi wrote: »

Sakho wasn't on the pitch when we conceded the 2 goals before the 10th minute, yet he's still getting abuse. Same lads are probably saying Gerrard can still start consistently for another 2-3 years at dm.

Idiots.

He scored in the 7th minute :P

mylefttesticle

It is basically a new team being fashioned, it takes time.

The start has been horrific and a win at Everton is now paramount as four defeats from six games mentality wise will be a hard hurdle to get over as the new players will feel they have not been good enough and confidence will dwindle.

Suarez was always going to be a big loss and not just his goals but what he brought to the club that winning at all stakes attitude, some comments yesterday saying he couldn't score from the stands miss the point, it was his presence as much as his ability that instilled belief, without doubt he was Liverpools only genuine world class player and as much as players want to impress fans sometimes they want to impress the best player they with more.


Defence is a mess! but its because no one trusts each other yet and that's because the manager does not trust any of them to be his back four at the moment so that needs to be sorted out quickly BR needs to pick what he thinks is his back four and in still the trust and confidence in them to stick with them for a long run of games as chopping and changing them is breeding instability.

We needed a real Defensive midfielder this year, maybe not for every game but for the games that need one, a player who can nip in and win the ball, marshal midfield and dictate the pace when needed and calm play down when under pressure, I actually cant believe the amount of money spent over the last two seasons and not one DM brought in, its very short sighted to not understand that teams will eventually figure out how to stop you playing high pace attacking ball (apart from spurs for some reason)

Its going to be a tough year and to be fair about those questioning BR I think this year we are going to see what he is made of, whether he is a promising manager who could turn world class or the opposite. Lets take a step back for a minute he has not won or achieved nothing yet and nor has he failed what he achieved last year was remarkable but like any top team you cant go backwards.

On a side not it really is a funny old game Southampton sit second today :pac: Quite happy RK was always a favourite player of mine and he comes across as a really class guy.

Guy:Incognito

Harry Palmr wrote: »

The Tally Ho publishes the thoughts of Chairman Gerrard

http://www.liverpoolfc.com/news/latest-news/171128-gerrard-i-won-t-let-things-fizzle-out?

No accident it appears this morning.

Gerrard so far this season as compared to last, that wedge at the bottom is pretty damning.

Presumably the rest of the team have stellar stats and Gerrard is pulling the averages down?:rolleyes:

Guy:Incognito

T-K-O wrote: »

He scored in the 7th minute :P

Maybe that's whats wrong, we got the wrong one by mistake.:)

Guy:Incognito

mylefttesticle wrote: »

Defence is a mess! but its because no one trusts each other yet and that's because the manager does not trust any of them to be his back four at the moment so that needs to be sorted out quickly BR needs to pick what he thinks is his back four and in still the trust and confidence in them to stick with them for a long run of games as chopping and changing them is breeding instability.y.

Itd be great if it was a bedding in thing but unfortunately I don't think it it. It was dire last season but covered up by goals. You don't need time to adapt to basic things in your game when you move clubs or others are brought in.

ie, in 20 games time what will be different when Skrtel sees a man running in to the box as the only forward option for a pass which will put him through on goal? What will the next 5 months teach him that he hasn't learned in the last 15 years?

I doubt BR deliberate defensive plan is to let players have handy headers at the back post to square to the players weve deliberately left unmarked in the 6 yard box. That's basic stuff and has been going on for a long time , regardless of which players are playing. Something is right with the defence and it needs addressing.

5live

darced wrote: »

This post has been deleted.

The near manic pressing that we did last year is totally absent from the team this year.

When we win the ball now, it is in our own half and the passing for passing sake begins. CB to FB to CB to CB to CB to FB to DM to CB to FB to CB to DM and on and on and on and on and on and on....

Balotelli is far too static to offer an option to receive the ball and none of the other attacking options seem willing to look for a ball in behind.

Are we trying a new non pressing system or are the players not following the managers instructions or are they unable to follow them?

The majority of the problems are/should be easy to minimise on the training pitch but they are repeated each week.

WTF is going on Brendan?

BenEadir

Guy:Incognito wrote: »

Mega fit young guys like frank Lampard?


Next week is another young up and come, Gareth Barry.

You still asleep? When was Frank Lampard converted to a DM?

Also, Gareth Barry is an out and out DM who is younger and less used than the unsuccessfully converted Stevie.

Raif Severance

My Internet crapped out, just before Kick Off, so I wasn't able to watch the Game live.

The 1st thing I did when I woke up, was watch the Replay. I shouldn't have.

The Thought that went through my Head, the Moment they announced the Line Up was, "We're going to Lose this one". And I was right.

Lucas and Gerrard both starting in Midfield, is not just a Disaster waiting to happen. It's more like Disaster, that is Written in the Stars. We're going to be Pinned badly, because both of them can't Carry the Ball towards our Forwards, who would be Starved out of Service.

And that exactly what happened. We even couldn't get out of our own Half.

How Brendan thought that a Midfield of Gerrard and Lucas could Work, after so many Failures, is Baffling to me.

Once both Can and Allen has Recovered from their Injuries, I hope BR starts to play Gerrard less often.

kfallon

Moreno is fast becoming a bit of a liability in that defence too! Been heavily responsible for goals since he came in:

Jovetic
Aguero
Ludogorets
Sakho

Now it may be the way he's being told to play by BR but first and foremost he's a defender and that's what he should be doing.

I really hope these piss poor performances are just a 'bedding in of players' problem but I think it's time for BR to get tough. Seems to me he'll let Gerrard do whatever he wants and won't drop him.

Think we'll see a much better Balotelli when Sturridge comes back too.

5live

daithijjj wrote: »

I have no intention of regurgitating the same stuff anymore tbh. I've been writing the same stuff since lads were saying the same as far back as Benitez last season re Gerrard.

Eventually, it will be correct. But there is nothing in our squad to squeeze Gerrard out yet. If i had got my way we'd have had 2 def mids brought in years ago. Then maybe.


I also find it hilarious that people think Joe Allen can play def mid. Theres a few 12yr old girls in our local GAA team who could out muscle him. He is much better higher.

Are youliving in Mullingar now?:pac:

Guy:Incognito

BenEadir wrote: »

You still asleep? When was Frank Lampard converted to a DM?
.

He wasnt, which is why he was one of the young bucks running against Gerrard.

Harry Palmr

Guy:Incognito wrote: »

Presumably the rest of the team have stellar stats and Gerrard is pulling the averages down?:rolleyes:

*sighs*

Scapegoat Sunday.

Guy:Incognito

Harry Palmr wrote: »

*sighs*

Sigh all you like. Youll still be sighing come the end of the season but pinning the whole lot on Gerrard wont cut it. Everyone is playing badly.

OwaynOTT

Nerdlingr wrote: »

Teams have figured us out. Just like Southampton were first to do at anfield last year. Press us high up the pitch and we're f*cked.
I think all our problems both defensively (obviously) and offensively are coming from our centre backs. They all seem unwillingly, or unable, to bring the ball out of defence themselves. Everything goes either through Gerrard who's got someone on him or is passed into our congested midfield. They need to step up into midfield to create space for others. Been crying out for them to do it since the season started but it doesn't look like happening. Also I wish we could switch play to our full balks without having to take five passes to do it.

On numerous occasions yesterday, lovern stepped out past Gerrard with the ball and on other occasions he passed it to Gerrard only to get it right back.
Gerrard was a passenger yesterday and the stats don't tell all, he gave sloppy passes to players and passed poor balls to players who were under pressure.
He can't receive the ball under pressure as good as he use to be able too but he isn't really effective at making space for himself either to receive the ball, like Pirlo can do. The amount of games can't be helping him either.
Lovern has made the most passes for any centre back in the premier league as of yesterday.

Allen is badly missed and while he is better higher up the pitch, I think he can do a very capable job at dm with Henderson and another playing in the midfield 3.

I still think Lallana will prove to be a good purchase and he has looked good in his appearances so far. Still not 100% though.

Balotelli and Borini look to have a nice understanding and Borini played well, when looked at in the context of the teams performance.

Sterling getting a little greedy? Held onto the ball a few times yesterday when better play was on if he passed. Still our best player so far though.

Skrtel, Sakho, Lovern, Agger, Coates and Toure, what do they have in common? All prone to individual mistakes and no combination of them looks to be much better than any other. The issues with the defence is the lack of protection in front of it (the team is so open) and their lack of confidence in Mignolet.

The overall solidness of the team needs to be looked at as a main priority. Another worry is the lack of pressure. Last season the team would hound the opposition all over the pitch, the intensity of the teams pressing is sorely lacking and at times there is no pressing at all.

I think it was against Southampton where Henderson won the ball back in midfield after an attack had broken down and Sourhampton were pushing up. This stealing of possession lead directly to a goal as The saints weren't defensively set.
Against Villa, West Ham and City, there was a lack of any real constant threat and an almost total lack of creativity, no matter who played. Teams are letting us have the ball as they know that one of two things well happen. One, the defence and the deep lying midfielders will eventually cock it all up and two, the attack minded players won't be able to penetrate a deep sitting well organised defence.

A loss against Everton and we are in for fun times. I predicted that this was a crucial season for Rodgers and it looks like it will make or break him. All ready on here there is massive questioning of him in terms of his coaching, team selection, tactics and transfer dealings.
Rodgers despite an excellent season just gone, hadn't totally won over his detractors.
And to be fair to them, they have a lot to be unhappy about and concerned over. Defensively the team is too open and as a result they make mistakes. The midfield has been crying out for a bit of steel in the last few transfer windows and only Can has come close to be possible able to provide it. On his own he is t enough, more is needed here.
With the players his has, Rodgers can only really select a cohesive and efficient team, if it's set up to attack, to score more than the opposition. He can try and pick a team to cel out wins but he hasn't the players for it and unfortunately the players that are picked get criticised and while some of that is warranted it's not all fair.

According to all reports, the club had more to spend in terms of money. One more midfielder with a but of steel and discipline would have been nice.
Medal went for cheap and was already bedded into the league and offered verstabilty. Can do a job at cb and dm. Also has that fire in his belly which is missing with Suarez gone.
I think the teams misses that desire and hunger more than his goals.




I still think the club will get fourth but it will be very close and Rodgers needs to add another string to his managerial bow and play ugly sometimes.

Ugly is beautiful in moderation, if it gets results. And the beautiful football will be all the more striking in contrast.

osnola ibax

Raif Severance wrote: »

My Internet crapped out, just before Kick Off, so I wasn't able to watch the Game live.

The 1st thing I did when I woke up, was watch the Replay. I shouldn't have.

The Thought that went through my Head, the Moment they announced the Line Up was, "We're going to Lose this one". And I was right.

Lucas and Gerrard both starting in Midfield, is not just a Disaster waiting to happen. It's more like Disaster, that is Written in the Stars. We're going to be Pinned badly, because both of them can't Carry the Ball towards our Forwards, who would be Starved out of Service.

And that exactly what happened. We even couldn't get out of our own Half.

How Brendan thought that a Midfield of Gerrard and Lucas could Work, after so many Failures, is Baffling to me.

Once both Can and Allen has Recovered from their Injuries, I hope BR starts to play Gerrard less often.

I agree with all this, as soon as I saw the line up I said it's going to be a frustrating one, although, I couldn't foresee it would be that disastrous.

Not at any stage did it look like we get a foot hold in the game apart from the period just before Sterling's goal, but in reality West Ham ran riot. The three defenders looked very confused at times, and it resulted in a bad knock for lovren. 6's and 7's.

Well deserved victory for the hammers, they were by far the better team.

The worrying thing for me is, it's not from a lack of hunger, they are just not good enough.

mylefttesticle

Guy:Incognito wrote: »

Itd be great if it was a bedding in thing but unfortunately I don't think it it. It was dire last season but covered up by goals. You don't need time to adapt to basic things in your game when you move clubs or others are brought in.

ie, in 20 games time what will be different when Skrtel sees a man running in to the box as the only forward option for a pass which will put him through on goal? What will the next 5 months teach him that he hasn't learned in the last 15 years?

I doubt BR deliberate defensive plan is to let players have handy headers at the back post to square to the players weve deliberately left unmarked in the 6 yard box. That's basic stuff and has been going on for a long time , regardless of which players are playing. Something is right with the defence and it needs addressing.

I agree! personally I don't think we have spent wisely when it comes to defence either in my opinion, my point is regardless of who we have he has to pick 4 and stick with them and work with them and for them to learn to consistently work together to at least resemble a cohesive unit, trust dwindles when there is uncertainty and at the moment I believe its a mixture of bedding in and uncertainty that is cause some of our defensive problems that and a defensively weak midfield.

Chelsea for example have not got a world class defence but they have unity and organisation and trust and everyone of them knows what each other is doing and that makes them a tough nut to crack added to a well drilled midfield then its easy to see why they are flourishing now they have a world class striker.

Hidalgo

kfallon wrote: »

Moreno is fast becoming a bit of a liability in that defence too! Been heavily responsible for goals since he came in:

Jovetic
Aguero
Ludogorets
Sakho

Now it may be the way he's being told to play by BR but first and foremost he's a defender and that's what he should be doing.

I really hope these piss poor performances are just a 'bedding in of players' problem but I think it's time for BR to get tough. Seems to me he'll let Gerrard do whatever he wants and won't drop him.

Think we'll see a much better Balotelli when Sturridge comes back too.

Don't see how you can pin the blame on Moreno for the Ludogrets goal.
Gerarrd had no business being that far forward at that stage of a tense 1-0 when you're trying to simply see it out.
Because of Gerarrds positioning, he was taken out as soon as Sterling lost possession.
Mingolet didn't exactly make it hard for the forward either

michael999999

osnola ibax wrote: »

I'm kind of glad Liverpool won't be challenging for the title this season, it means I won't need to take up residence behind the sofa

You may still end up behind the sofa. Just for different reasons. Mainly our defending, or lack if it!

ASOT

rarnes1 wrote: »

Scapegoat Sunday.

#blamesakho/lucas/manquillo/kingkenny/hodgson/anfieldcat

djPSB

rarnes1 wrote: »

Scapegoat Sunday.

Moreno is a liability.

Sakho is a disaster.

Lovren is a dodge.

Gerrard should retire.

Lucas is putrid.

Rodgers out.

Am I doing this right?

CSF

LuckyLloyd wrote: »

If the scenario I outlined above comes to pass he'll be under immense pressure at the very least

He won't/shouldn't and the fact that you're hypothesising over it 5 games after a season that nobody could even have dreamt of is preposterous/moronic/*insert big negative word here*

Guy:Incognito

CSF wrote: »

He won't/shouldn't and the fact that you're hypothesising over it 5 games after a season that nobody could even have dreamt of is preposterous/moronic/*insert big negative word here*

There wont be the same amount of goals scored as last season. Which means if the defence isn't shored up we'll be a lot worse off ,results wise, than last season. This isnt really a 5 game thing. ITs something that's been going on for a long time that was covered up by goals.

kfallon

Hidalgo wrote: »

Don't see how you can pin the blame on Moreno for the Ludogrets goal.
Gerarrd had no business being that far forward at that stage of a tense 1-0 when you're trying to simply see it out.
Because of Gerarrds positioning, he was taken out as soon as Sterling lost possession.
Mingolet didn't exactly make it hard for the forward either

And Moreno, the left back, did?
It was because of him being so far forward that the gap between Sakho and Loveren was so big you could drive a bus thru it.
There were others at fault too alright but it was moronic to be practically our furthest player forward when trying to hold on to a 1-0 win.

Again, that could be more down to BR than Moreno but a bit of cop on is required too.

gafferino

klose wrote: »

I think it would be harsh, hes spent two years implimenting his style and his recruitment drive is with an eye to the future aswell as the present so i would like to see the the team develop under him. Weve a lot of players bedding in, injuries and players out of form so ill personally wait for a larger sample size to start making possoble predicitons.

No no it's better to look at the doomsday scenario 5 games into a season. Makes much more sense.

Guy:Incognito

gafferino wrote: »

No no it's better to look at the doomsday scenario 5 games into a season. Makes much more sense.

Do you think we'll score 100 goals in the league again this season? Because we're well on our way to conceding 50 again.

gafferino

Guy:Incognito wrote: »

Do you think we'll score 100 goals in the league again this season? Because we're well on our way to conceding 50 again.

No...given we don't have Suarez, given that was the first time we have ever done that and iirc only the 3rd team to ever do that, I don't think we will score 100 goals again.

#sackthemanager

Guy:Incognito

gafferino wrote: »

No...given we don't have Suarez, given that was the first time we have ever done that and iirc only the 3rd team to ever do that, I don't think we will score 100 goals again.

#sackthemanager

No one is saying they should be sacking rogers , but realistically, with the drop in goals scored(actually either way because conceding 50 goals isn't going to win you a league outside of a hail mary shot like last season where you score 100+) , conceding 50 just isn't acceptable.It needs addressing and January is too far away for buying a player to be the answer. By that stage the season could be completely written off on all fronts.

rob316

I shudder at the thought of what ronaldo and Co will do to us with our defence. Ugly.

djPSB

Would there be any point in moving Gerrard back as a CB?

NabyLadistheman

I blame Borini. Square the ball to Moreno & it's 2 each ten minutes into the second half after playing appalingly

djPSB

rob316 wrote: »

I shudder at the thought of what ronaldo and Co will do to us with our defence. Ugly.

We'll probably concede less against Madrid than West Ham because we'll actually defend.

Soft Falling Rain

rob316 wrote: »

I shudder at the thought of what ronaldo and Co will do to us with our defence. Ugly.

Someone will see red in that game pretty quickly I fear if the concentration levels don't improve dramatically.

NabyLadistheman

djPSB wrote: »

Would there be any point in moving Gerrard back as a CB?

Maybe we could try him in goals!

T-K-O

rob316 wrote: »

I shudder at the thought of what ronaldo and Co will do to us with our defence. Ugly.

Sterling, Sturridge and co will have lots of chances in that game.

Yesterday was awful but with guys coming back it's not like we don't have options. The underlining problem (sadly) is Gerrard.

I don't want him dropped but he needs to be rested, IMO he's still very important to the team but he looked tired yesterday.

1 game a week for SG going forward , over to you BR

DVDM93

Suarezistheman wrote: »

I blame Borini. Square the ball to Moreno & it's 2 each ten minutes into the second half after playing appalingly

Greedy Greedy
Fabio Borni

Greedy on the pitch, greedy off it :P

rossie1977

CSF wrote: »

Realistically Rodgers future isn't something you should be considering as anything other than a given at this moment of time. He's 5 games since the most impressive season from Liverpool in my living memory.

rafa got liverpool to second on 86 points in 2009 (more points than they achieved last year) and he was gone a year later

club owners have already set their stall out. spurs have sacked 3 managers in just over a year for failing to reach the champions league, spurs nearly got 70 points last year and sherwood still lost his job. if liverpool finish 5th or lower i see no way rodgers is still in a job come september.

DVDM93

Whatever about managing how to use Gerrard, can we please NEVER EVER EVER NOT EVEN ONCE EVEN IF WE HAVE TO BRING BACK CHARLIE ADAM NEVER EVER EVER AGAIN PLEASE !!!NEVER!!! start Lucas again. He had a one hit wonder with the song 'Let Her Go' but he is an absolute Passenger.

It would be of my honest opinion to sadly say that Lucas is finished.

Soft Falling Rain

I can accept strikers being greedy, they all have to be. But when you take on an impossible shot over a much better alternative that sh1t doesn't fly. Suarez used to rightfully bowl out Sturridge over the same thing.

Iused2likebusts

It seems I'm a lot calmer than most with sturridge back there will be a huge difference we miss his pace to stretch teams and create space. On the signings I'm pleased with Mario moreno and lallana. Teams are now man marking Gerrard so rodgers needs to find another way of getting the attack started which I'm sure he will.

Benimar

kfallon wrote: »

And Moreno, the left back, did?
It was because of him being so far forward that the gap between Sakho and Loveren was so big you could drive a bus thru it.
There were others at fault too alright but it was moronic to be practically our furthest player forward when trying to hold on to a 1-0 win.

Again, that could be more down to BR than Moreno but a bit of cop on is required too.

The gap between Lovren and Sakho would be the one Gerrard should have been closing.

We will never know if Moreno was told to push on. If not he shares the blame, but no matter what the instructions the DM is supposed to cover, and he didn't.

What surprised me towards the end was how out of position Gerrard was (inside West Hams half) while Henderson was dropping deep, essentially playing the DM role.

The Gerrard experiment at DM hasn't worked. There's plenty of blame to go round but we have conceded 35 goals in the 22 games he's played there. You can blame the keepers and defenders all you like, Gerrard has to take some of the blame.

Also, on a general point, why is it not possible for some people to take criticism of Gerrard for what it is, rather than see it as fans having a 'meltdown'.

Anyone who thinks Gerrard has been playing well has been watching a different player to me.

gafferino

Guy:Incognito wrote: »

No one is saying they should be sacking rogers , but realistically, with the drop in goals scored(actually either way because conceding 50 goals isn't going to win you a league outside of a hail mary shot like last season where you score 100+) , conceding 50 just isn't acceptable.It needs addressing and January is too far away for buying a player to be the answer. By that stage the season could be completely written off on all fronts.

Of course it needs addressing. No doubt there and Rodgers comments yesterday were pretty scathing..... And rightly so. There's plenty of people in here ready with the knives out don't worry.

Guy:Incognito

Benimar wrote: »

We will never know if Moreno was told to push on. If not he shares the blame, but no matter what the instructions the DM is supposed to cover, and he didn't..

But we'll give him the benefit and hang Gerrard? How do you know Gerrard wasn't told to push?

Benimar wrote: »

The Gerrard experiment at DM hasn't worked. There's plenty of blame to go round but we have conceded 35 goals in the 22 games he's played there. You can blame the keepers and defenders all you like, Gerrard has to take some of the blame.

.

Give him some of the blame, that's fine. The whole team shares it. The 3 goals yesterday were simple enough defensive errors, by the defenders. Mingolet shouldn't be getting caught by that cross either. Even if it went to the player free at the back post like it was meant to it was sailing over his head.

Gbear

Guy:Incognito wrote: »

But we'll give him the benefit and hang Gerrard? How do you know Gerrard wasn't told to push?

Whether or not he was, Amalfitano strolled past him about 5 seconds before he scored the goal.

If he can't track back in the 90th minute then he shouldn't still be on the pitch.

Guy:Incognito

Gbear wrote: »

Whether or not he was, Amalfitano strolled past him about 5 seconds before he scored the goal.

If he can't track back in the 90th minute then he shouldn't still be on the pitch.

No body runs by Gerrard. The player that wins the ball passes it forward and ends up still behind Gerrard when the goal is scored. The player tha receives it had a couple of players around him, so not Gerrards man either.

The goalscorer (Abalo) comes from a wide left position up from the bottom of the screen about 40 yards from Gerrard.


Either way, if not for Mingolets rush of blood imo there isn't a goal to discuss.

Gbear

Guy:Incognito wrote: »

No body runs by Gerrard. The player that wins the ball passes it forward and ends up still behind Gerrard when the goal is scored. The player tha receives it had a couple of players around him, so not Gerrards man either.

The goalscorer (Abalo) comes from a wide left position up from the bottom of the screen about 40 yards from Gerrard.

My bad, I thought you were talking about the West Ham game.

Gerrard had vacated the centre of the pitch and as he was making his way back towards goal, Amalfitano strolls past him. He doesn't track the run and Downing can slide the ball to him fairly easily.

Mind you, it was a clever finish, to squeeze it through before Skrtel could block him and before Mignolet could set himself.