Liverpool FC Team Talk/Gossip/Rumours Thread 2014 - Mod Note in OP, 1/09

Benimar

Guy:Incognito wrote: »

But we'll give him the benefit and hang Gerrard? How do you know Gerrard wasn't told to push?




Give him some of the blame, that's fine. The whole team shares it. The 3 goals yesterday were simple enough defensive errors, by the defenders. Mingolet shouldn't be getting caught by that cross either. Even if it went to the player free at the back post like it was meant to it was sailing over his head.

Because DMs usually aren't asked to push, while full backs often are. I also didn't 'hang Gerrard', if anything I said Moreno should share the blame, but Gerrard can't avoid all blame.

My post is all about giving him some of the blame, my issue is with those who pass the share that belongs to him onto others.

If the players name was Paddy Murphy and not Steven Gerrard his level of performance in his current role would have everyone on here wanting him dropped.

He has been a great player for Liverpool, but he shouldn't be in the team if he is being 'accommodated' which I believe he is being.

Kerrigooney

Thought I'd sleep on it to calm down...hasn't worked. Yesterday was a disgrace that once the team was revealed practically everyone saw coming. Except Rodgers. Baffling.

Gerrard is never gonna be dropped for next weeks game against Everton but if he starts on Tues then serious questions need to be asked.

Also...I'm not one to jump on players too quickly,they need time to adapt etc. but I'm done with Mignolet...he's getting worse not better. That doesn't mean we weren't right to sell Reina either...he'd gone to **** as well. I'm not a huge fan of Valdes but I'd prefer anyone to Mignolet at this stage.

None of our defenders look good. Not 1 of them. Very worrying. I'm not talking about their organization either,although that's shocking a lot of the time,it's the fact all of them look capable of making stupid mistakes at any time.

I said last week I wasn't panicking yet but yesterday was very worrying and if Everton beat us next week there'll be a **** storm and rightfully so.

Guy:Incognito

Gbear wrote: »

Mind you, it was a clever finish, to squeeze it through before Skrtel could block him and before Mignolet could set himself.

No body was expecting the header from Sakho , that's what started it. If Gerrard had have done that he'd have been lambasted.

He could have done better but he made the choice to try cut the through ball out out and missed.
It was bad defending from Skrtel. Watch it. The ball is picked up in the centre circle, miles from goal. Theres no threat through the middle because there are players there. Skrtel is furthest back with his back to goal so he can see everything. As soon as The player is level with Gerrard the only option for Downing is to slide it through so Skrtel needs to be on his toes. Its never going through the middle to where he is so hes essentially redundant there anyway.

At that stage it was 3 at the back iirc so Skrtel is far too central for someone whos 2 other centre halves are to the left of him. The 3 centre halves are all on the left hand side of the pitch with no cover on the right.

Mr Alan

A loss to Everton next week & the pressure will really start to mount

Vicxas

Internet is blaming Gerrard.


Who are we blaming now.

T-K-O

Vicxas wrote: »

Internet is blaming Gerrard.


Who are we blaming now.

Transfer policy.

We need to implement a new galacticos policy

Guy:Incognito

Benimar wrote: »

Because DMs usually aren't asked to push, while full backs often are. I also didn't 'hang Gerrard', if anything I said Moreno should share the blame, but Gerrard can't avoid all blame.

My post is all about giving him some of the blame, my issue is with those who pass the share that belongs to him onto others.

If the players name was Paddy Murphy and not Steven Gerrard his level of performance in his current role would have everyone on here wanting him dropped.

He has been a great player for Liverpool, but he shouldn't be in the team if he is being 'accommodated' which I believe he is being.

The Ludogorets goal is the type of incident that passes off 2 or 3 times a match without comment because the player ends up running it off in to the corner or taking a silly shot that goes no where. The turning point in that one was Mingolet. Theres plenty of outfield cover and the striker is being pushed out to the corner of the box where it needs to be that shot of the season type that curls a huge amount to have any hope of going in. Keeper comes out though and sells himself leaving the goal gaping.

Crash Bang Wall

3 mins left, chasing the game.
Sakho had to keep the ball in play, problem was there was no LFC player in the middle of the field, and no sign of anyone bursting a gut to get back either.

We deserved nothing out of that game. Comedy Central at the back, and the keeper is truly awful at present. If Gerrard is doing this playmaker role he needs some sort of protection, with Hendo Allen Can or Lucas tasked with the job of sitting in front of the back 4 and Gerrard to make the play 10 yards further forward

Guy:Incognito

T-K-O wrote: »

Transfer policy.

We need to implement a new galacticos policy

Cheeky bid for that Uruguayan lad Barce signed maybe? I hear he can be volatile so maybe he'll **** up and Rogers can be the man to tame him.:)

YouTookMyName

It's the fúckin midfields fault.

Lucas-Allen-Henderson.

The midfield 3.

Keep pressing ala spurs last season, By delaying quick progress of the opposition attack, by preventing penetration behind the midfield line, by allowing the defensive line to remain compact and in communication, by tracking runs into the area and negating marking dilemmas for the centrebacks, by offering cover to pressuring fullbacks. It's really that simple.

Matuidi + Cabaye + Pogba = The Mamadou Sakho That Eats Diego Costa for Lunch (with some cinnamon-sprinkled David Silva on the side)

Wanyama + Schneiderlin + Lallana = The Dejan Lovren That Ensured Southampton Was the Only Traditionally "Small" Club to Have a Positive Goal Differential Last Season

Sahko + lovern are good players, we know this. Just this system is making them look like cúnts.

Benimar

Guy:Incognito wrote: »

The Ludogorets goal is the type of incident that passes off 2 or 3 times a match without comment because the player ends up running it off in to the corner or taking a silly shot that goes no where. The turning point in that one was Mingolet. Theres plenty of outfield cover and the striker is being pushed out to the corner of the box where it needs to be that shot of the season type that curls a huge amount to have any hope of going in. Keeper comes out though and sells himself leaving the goal gaping.

The keeper is 100% to blame for the shot actually going in. If Brad Jones wasn't the back up I'd be calling for Mignolet to be dropped. Once Valdes is fit/we sign someone in January, Mignolet will be out.

The shot should never happen though, it's caused by Gerrard (definitely) and Moreno (most likely) being out of position. The shot should have been saved but it's still bad defending, and not the first time it's happened.

Again, I'll repeat myself. There are plenty of players to blame, but Gerrard is most certainly one of them and it's not unreasonable to suggest it's time to give someone else a go.

MarkY91

if gerrard wasnt "gerrard", he would most likely be dropped for the next game. but that wont happen because he is our darling gerrard.

please sign valdes so mignolet can take a seat on our bench!

Guy:Incognito

Benimar wrote: »

The keeper is 100% to blame for the shot actually going in. If Brad Jones wasn't the back up I'd be calling for Mignolet to be dropped. Once Valdes is fit/we sign someone in January, Mignolet will be out.

The shot should never happen though, it's caused by Gerrard (definitely) and Moreno (most likely) being out of position. The shot should have been saved but it's still bad defending, and not the first time it's happened.

Again, I'll repeat myself. There are plenty of players to blame, but Gerrard is most certainly one of them and it's not unreasonable to suggest it's time to give someone else a go.

Whats the point of the 3 defenders if the cant handle 1 striker between them if the DM isn't right there to help them?

All teams end up in situations like that, doesn't matter who the midfielders are or what age they are. Attacks break down and your talking 3 or 4 seconds from box to box with 2 passes. Short of a jet pack, no player on the planet is getting back to that. You cant just go "ah **** it, that's a goal now". It was 3 on 1 with the keeper for cover. The defence did reasonably alright to begin with in pushing him wide, though the corner of the box is at least where you want to push him too.

Guy:Incognito

MarkY91 wrote: »

if gerrard wasnt "gerrard", he would most likely be dropped for the next game. but that wont happen because he is our darling gerrard.

!

If he wasn't 34 there wouldn't be this thing of his legs being gone. Its a nice cliché but imo the truth is much closer to him playing poorly in a team full of players that are playing poorly.

Augmerson

Benimar wrote: »

Again, I'll repeat myself. There are plenty of players to blame, but Gerrard is most certainly one of them and it's not unreasonable to suggest it's time to give someone else a go.

Poor performances aside, it is probably a good plan to prepare a replacement for Gerrard in the side rather than accommodating him with the quarterback position. That role really is just made for him and I wonder what the side would be like if he was out.

Benimar

Guy:Incognito wrote: »

Whats the point of the 3 defenders if the cant handle 1 striker between them if the DM isn't right there to help them?

All teams end up in situations like that, doesn't matter who the midfielders are or what age they are. Attacks break down and your talking 3 or 4 seconds from box to box with 2 passes. Short of a jet pack, no player on the planet is getting back to that. You cant just go "ah **** it, that's a goal now". It was 3 on 1 with the keeper for cover. The defence did reasonably alright to begin with in pushing him wide, though the corner of the box is at least where you want to push him too.

Again, plenty of blame to go round but Gerrard seems to escape your criticism.

It's pretty basic coaching. Full back gets caught high up, left sided centre back pulls across, DM drops in as auxiliary centre back.

The pass was played between Lovren and Sakho, where Gerrard should have been.

Of course others are to blame also, but Gerrard is not positionally aware enough to play the role he is in.

EDIT: Gerrard shouldn't have had to get back, he should have already been back!

Soft Falling Rain

Seeing the damage Di Maria and Falcao are causing leaves me slightly humbled. Serious signings and well worth whatever their cost.

T-K-O

Soft Falling Rain wrote: »

Seeing the damage Di Maria and Falcao are causing leaves me slightly humbled. Serious signings and well worth whatever their cost.

Hardly a surprise, top top top top players.

Harry Palmr

I think people underestimate just how critical the role is, every team that is really working has a deep lynch-pin, if the player in that position is not at the races you're in bother. You can't just stick someone in there and make them effective esp if its never been instinctive which is the case with Gerrard.

The blame can be flung about but essentially its the managers fault for failing to bring in talent to play there resulting in a 34 year old playing every game. Rodgers could change the system to some degree of course but I doubt he trusts Lucas that much after yesterday. Lucas, who lets not forget, would now be on loan at Napoli had the club been willing to allow it. Which further illustrates just how bad squad management has been with regard to the base of midfield.

Vicxas

Soft Falling Rain wrote: »

Seeing the damage Di Maria and Falcao are causing leaves me slightly humbled. Serious signings and well worth whatever their cost.

I appreciate our diamond in the rough philosophy. But yeah. Theres that and then there's proven talent.

T-K-O

Vicxas wrote: »

I appreciate our diamond in the rough philosophy. But yeah. Theres that and then there's proven talent.

We never had a chance, they would only move to a London club

Soft Falling Rain

T-K-O wrote: »

We never had a chance, they would only move to a London club

Well clearly West Ham > Liverpool

Bowlardo

Lucas needs to be off loaded to italy ion January. Lovely player in his day but his legs are completely gone and he offers nothing anymore. The italian pace would be fine for him but he is not able for the premier league anymore.
The midfield is the problem. Gerard has to go. The man is a legend but he has to go from midfield. he's legs are gone and no he should not play centre back, throughout his career he has proven terrible at tracking runs. Is that not why rafa moved him forward as gerard could not do the defensive part of the game correctly. If he had the lags i'd play him right back for the cross but don't think he is capable of that either
If we don't get 4th this year we are ****ed. I don't think we are going to unearth another suares anytime soon.
Mignolet is ****. There is a serious problem with liverpool goal keeper. they come to the club good and end up ****. This can be every keeper that has been there for the last 10 years. Can we just sign whoever celtics goal keepers coaches are as they have consistently made keeper better than the actually were.
We are going to get a trimming off everton next week. Moreno will be caught up in no mans land at some stage and the have coleman and mcgeady to exploit us on the right side.

Be interesting how the reserve team go against the boro during the week

Also sterling needs a major kick upn the whole . he was **** yesterday

Agent Coulson

I think simply our midfield 3 should be Henderson, Allen & Lallana who can all play a high pressing high energy game.

If one of them needs to be subbed after 70 minutes then you can bring Gerrard on to give it everything for the last 20 mintues of every game.

For me that is how to use Gerrard at the moment as a game changer.

I know injuries are playing a part right now and showing how light we are in midfield.

As I said yesterday Lovren and Sakho are used to having the midfield in front of the them playing a high pressing line which doesn't happen here with Gerrard sitting so deep.

citytillidie

Might follow the ladies team they are in with another title shout with 2 games to go after beating Birmingham ladies with a goal from kick off in the 88th minute after Birmingham had brought the game back to 1 each

aramush

Bowlardo wrote: »

[...]
Also sterling needs a major kick upn the whole . he was **** yesterday

Bit harsh on Sterling there, only player who tried to make something happen in that second half imo.

Harry Palmr

Bowlardo wrote: »

Be interesting how the reserve team go against the boro during the week

Well they'll get soundly beaten if Boro put out their best 11. They look quite handy right now.

Hollister11

Hollister11 wrote: »

Gerrards FH we awful. I would of subbed him off for coutinho at HT.
as much as we all love SG, time Is catching up on him.

I was slated for saying this 3 weeks ago about stevie.

Benimar

Hollister11 wrote: »

I was slated for saying this 3 weeks ago about stevie.

Don't worry, I'm sure you will get slated today too

SuperTortoise

Been travelling for the past 24 hrs so I've only just heard the result , shocking to be honest.

Were there any half decent performances yesterday?

Fescue

After the defeat to Chelsea last season, Rodgers claimed it wasn't difficult to coach a team to produce a display like Chelsea's. We need to be able to do that when required.

Agent Coulson

SuperTortoise wrote: »

Been travelling for the past 24 hrs so I've only just heard the result , shocking to be honest.

Were there any half decent performances yesterday?

Lallana when he came on was half decent coming back from injury.

Harry Palmr

SuperTortoise wrote: »

Been travelling for the past 24 hrs so I've only just heard the result , shocking to be honest.

Were there any half decent performances yesterday?

Lallana came on and looked good, able to to do stuff like take the ball at his feet and run with it, pass and get it back thanks to his willingness to move about a bit! That's about it really.

5starpool

Hollister11 wrote: »

I was slated for saying this 3 weeks ago about stevie.

No you weren't, I checked about 100 posts after your own post and 1 person thanked you, and 1 person disagreed with you, which most certainly does not constitute a slating. Was there a large discussion of your post slating you after the point to which I checked?

Several people have been saying Gerrard is a liability for some time now and like most opinions not universally shared there is some disagreement on it. You most certainly were not slated (from what I can see) for it though.

Agent Coulson

If Gerrard isn't rested for the Middlesbrough game on Tuesday I think that will once and for all show Rodgers really doesn't have the balls to drop/rest him.

osnola ibax

I think Gerrard is actually one of our more creative players when he's on his game, anything good we did against Ludo went through him. He sees space and deliverers a good ball. (Not yesterday)

He's also quite good at spotting danger at the back, making important tackles and interceptions.

But he's not a defender, and lacks the responsibility to remain in a defensive structure but he probably expected to do too much between both roles particularly when Lucas is on the pitch because he's just not up to it at all.

Gerrard was pants yesterday but he's not the problem, it's everything that's going on behind him and Lucas.

I wonder if Gerrard was dropped for Boro and we lose who'll be the scapegoat then?

Rodgers is to blame for yesterday more than anyone. He isn't at the races this season so far and needs to sort it out asap

5starpool

No chance Gerrard plays on Tuesday. Henderson or Lallana will start alongside Lucas I'd say. Enrique, Jones, Toure, Borini and Lambert will start as well. I'd say Suso will start too.

slingerz

The team for Middlesboro won't have Gerrard I reckon

Mignolet
Johnson Toure Sakho Enrique
Lucas Henderson Coutinho
Markovic Lambert Borini

Agent Coulson

rarnes1 wrote: »

I wonder if Gerrard was dropped for Boro and we lose who'll be the scapegoat then?

Rodgers is to blame for yesterday more than anyone. He isn't at the races this season so far and needs to sort it out asap

Sakho, Mignolet and Lucas of course.

Then Borini for being a greedy bastard and not leaving.

Toure then for being to old and past it.

Johnson for just being Johnson.

Enrique for his pictures on Twitter and Insatgram and playing to much FIFA.

There are plenty of sacpegoats to pick from in the squad.

rob316

United with as leaky a defence as ours.


Desperately looking for positives from the weekend.

Fescue

5starpool wrote: »

No chance Gerrard plays on Tuesday. Henderson or Lallana will start alongside Lucas I'd say. Enrique, Jones, Toure, Borini and Lambert will start as well. I'd say Suso will start too.

They were making the point on Sunday Supplement this morning that teams are now targeting Gerrard. For me he isn't contributing enough in the role to justify shaping the team around him. He was by no means the big problem against West ham but I think we need to look to others now with Gerrard not being so integral to everything.

segadreamcast

Harry Palmr wrote: »

LOAN WATCH

Texieria - 63 mins for Brighton & HA in 0-0 home draw against Blackpool
Wisdom - plays tomorrow
Alberto - Played 67 mins and got an assist for Malaga in 2-2 away draw with Espanyol
Ibe - played last 40 mins and scored his first goal for Derby.
Origi - Plays tomorrow
Smith - Played 90 mins as left wing back in 5-2 home win for Swindon Town got two assists for third and fifth goals
Ilori - Unused sub for Bordeaux
Ossiadi - Unused sub for Stoke
Coates - no game for Sunderland

Ilori may as well be recalled, this loan is pointless.

Augmerson

rob316 wrote: »

United with as leaky a defence as ours.


Desperately looking for positives from the weekend.

Cambiasso is handy enough for the Foxes, good buy that, but this is very off topic.

Was Steve Clarke supposed to come back to the club as a coach at some point?

Agent Coulson

Augmerson wrote: »

Was Steve Clarke supposed to come back to the club as a coach at some point?

I think that was a lot of wishful thinking/hoping on alot of fans part.


Damm I wish Rodgers would offer him a job.

Harry Palmr

segadreamcast wrote: »

Ilori may as well be recalled, this loan is pointless.

He played the whole previous game

West Brom have taken the lead against Spurs for what its worth.

Fescue

Augmerson wrote: »

Cambiasso is handy enough for the Foxes, good buy that, but this is very off topic.

Was Steve Clarke supposed to come back to the club as a coach at some point?

Perhaps I'm mistaken but doesn't Rodgers do all the coaching. He is a on the field coach as opposed to a Manager like Dalglish who has others take the training sessions. I don't think Rodgers would have someone take over half of his role with the team.

segadreamcast

Harry Palmr wrote: »

He played the whole previous game

Apologies entirely. I must have missed that report! Last two I saw he had sat them out iirc

Fescue

Agent Coulson wrote: »

I think that was a lot of wishful thinking/hoping on alot of fans part.


Damm I wish Rodgers would offer him a job.

While Steve Clarke was at Liverpool we couldn't score goals.

Vicxas

Wow, this premier league season is so unpredictable thus far...