Liverpool FC Team Talk/Gossip/Rumours Thread 2014 - Mod Note in OP, 1/09

Vicxas

LuckyLloyd wrote: »

Craig Sainsbury seems like a nice chap.

Absolute saint.

garra

BenEadir wrote: »

Becuase Gerrard's lack of pace and movement make him easy to target. His game has been reduced to being a DM with a "quarter back" element to the role receiving the ball and pinging long passes. The problem is this isn't American Football and it's too easy to simply man mark him when our defence get the ball thus preventing him doing the one thing he's still amazing at. Henderson and Allen or any other midfielders can do all the running they like, it won't result in Gerrard not being man marked will it?

Would any other player in any other team in the PL, especially a 34 year old makeshift DM with the following stats for their last 90 minutes be a guaranteed starter next week?

- 82% pass accuracy
- 0 through balls
- 0 shots
- 0/5 crosses completed
- 0 tackles won

Seriously, 0 tackles won for a DM in a game we were trounced in :eek:

My point is that Gerrard has a particular set of skills, picked up over a life time or work, which makes him a nightmare for teams to play against ("Taken" credit). He can open up space for our front players by going long and thus overcome a hard pressing game. If he has the right kind of players around him, ones that can turn and beat a man and open up space, then other teams cannot simply man mark him as they will have more to worry about than him. The other players are not being targetted because they cannot influence the game to the same extent.

Please don't quote stats for 1 90 minute match when discussing Steven Gerrard. It's not right and I wont have it.

garra

LuckyLloyd wrote: »

Craig Sainsbury seems like a nice chap.

I'd love to know where he works, hopefully he's a banker and his pay masters get visibility of this.

Fescue

garra wrote: »

My point is that Gerrard has a particular set of skills, picked up over a life time or work, which makes him a nightmare for teams to play against ("Taken" credit). He can open up space for our front players by going long and thus overcome a hard pressing game. If he has the right kind of players around him, ones that can turn and beat a man and open up space, then other teams cannot simply man mark him as they will have more to worry about than him. The other players are not being targetted because they cannot influence the game to the same extent.

Please don't quote stats for 1 90 minute match when discussing Steven Gerrard. It's not right and I wont have it.

Steven Gerrard is getting old. It's not a slight on him at all but time catches up with everyone. I think it might be catching up with Gerrard. We can still expect some great games from him this season but he can't be starting 3 games in 8 days. So its time to prepare for life without him.

Guy:Incognito

garra wrote: »

I'd love to know where he works, hopefully he's a banker and his pay masters get visibility of this.

I believe he owns Morrisons.

Fescue

Fescue wrote: »

Not very nice.

Disgraceful behaviour. And the ****ing idiots even have there pictures assigned to there twitter accounts.

osnola ibax

Have Balotelli jump memes been posted here yet

https://mobile.twitter.com/search?q=balotelli%20jump&src=tyah

5live

machiavellianme wrote: »

I for one am terrified of Paul Koncheskys mother!

FYP;-)

Agent Coulson

Even our new signing knows this thread loves a good WWE reference :cool:

Gbear

Guy:Incognito wrote: »

No body was expecting the header from Sakho , that's what started it. If Gerrard had have done that he'd have been lambasted.

[...]
At that stage it was 3 at the back iirc so Skrtel is far too central for someone whos 2 other centre halves are to the left of him. The 3 centre halves are all on the left hand side of the pitch with no cover on the right.

I suppose it's rare enough that a goal is down to one player's error.

When we have 3 defenders and a keeper that look nervy and a malfunctioning midfield you're going to get these cock-ups chained together more than you can get away with.

It seems a common theme:
- Henderson loses his man and nobody is marking Reid in the centre for the first goal yesterday.
- Sakho bungles a clearing header, our midfield has gone walkabout, Skrtel is out of position and Gerrard doesn't track his runner for the third goal.
-Moreno is too far up the pitch, Sakho gets dragged wide and leaves a big gap through the centre and Mignolet comes miles off his line for Ludogorets' goal.

But given some of the performances of these players in other circumstances (see this post:

YouTookMyName wrote: »

It's the fúckin midfields fault.

)
... I don't think we're conceding lots of goals because any of the players in our back 5 are ****e.

There's a lack of cover in front of them, they're getting attacked a lot, maybe there's a mistake in each of them (but that's true of most defenders), they get nervy, that breeds more mistakes and there's just a cycle of cock-ups that seems to get worse the longer it goes on.

Set pieces clearly need to be worked on but aside from that, I'm not sure what the calls for a "defensive coach" are really about.

We want to play attacking football but Rodgers has maintained that philosophy without maintaining the balance in our front 6.
One alternative is to change our entire approach to the game but I'd much rather we tried to play the same way as last season, even if it's less effective because of Suarez not being present.

Fescue wrote: »

What do you put it down to?

A hangover from last season perhaps?

I just don't think Rodgers has picked the right team and while a he gets a bit of a pass due to injuries and bedding in new players, I don't think that explains why he'd play Balotelli without support or Lucas and Gerrard in the same midfield.

Maybe Spurs was a fluke but that felt like the "real" Liverpool. That had the balance, the cover for Gerard's weaknesses, the support up front and Sterling playing where he should be.

That was the only good performance this season and, given the way we've lined up in every other game, that makes sense.

Utopia Parkway

garra wrote: »

My point is that Gerrard has a particular set of skills, picked up over a life time or work

segadreamcast

Vicxas wrote: »

Absolute saint.

Claimed to be a freelance journalist. He shut his account just there.

BenEadir

garra wrote: »

My point is that Gerrard has a particular set of skills, picked up over a life time or work, which makes him a nightmare for teams to play against ("Taken" credit). He can open up space for our front players by going long and thus overcome a hard pressing game. If he has the right kind of players around him, ones that can turn and beat a man and open up space, then other teams cannot simply man mark him as they will have more to worry about than him. The other players are not being targetted because they cannot influence the game to the same extent.

Please don't quote stats for 1 90 minute match when discussing Steven Gerrard. It's not right and I wont have it.

Ah ok, I gotcha. Gerrard had a shocker not becuase he's playing in a role unsuited to him and at 34 his lack of movement and pace make him easy to man mark but because the players around him aren't making the opposition worried enough. That's explained it for me, bar on thing. Can you explain how he didn't win a single tackle or play a single through ball in 90 minutes?

Guy:Incognito

segadreamcast wrote: »

Claimed to be a freelance journalist..

Fancy speak for "has a blog"

garra

Fescue wrote: »

Steven Gerrard is getting old. It's not a slight on him at all but time catches up with everyone. I think it might be catching up with Gerrard. We can still expect some great games from him this season but he can't be starting 3 games in 8 days. So its time to prepare for life without him.

Agreed he is getting old, he should be getting a weeks rest between matches. It's unfortunate for everyone concerned that we don't have anyone currently able to emulate him, or a system that fits without him, otherwise I'b be calling for more rotation myself.

Fescue

garra wrote: »

Agreed he is getting old, he should be getting a weeks rest between matches. It's unfortunate for everyone concerned that we don't have anyone currently able to emulate him, or a system that fits without him, otherwise I'b be calling for more rotation myself.

We don't need to emulate him. In my opinion we can be just as good if not better without him. Someone to give the back four more protection.

The 40 yard diagonal passes are not always necessary. I think moving the ball quickly is key.

8-10

Gerrard is essential in midfield I think. Very intelligent player, watched him intently last Tuesday night. I can see him playing for Liverpool for another 3 years.

klose

8-10 wrote: »

Gerrard is essential in midfield I think. Very intelligent player, watched him intently last Tuesday night. I can see him playing for Liverpool for another 3 years.

Still has plenty to offer but playing 3 games in 8 days at his age is ridiculous, playing with lucas should but outlawed too.

Agent Coulson

Ibe's goal.

garra

BenEadir wrote: »

Ah ok, I gotcha. Gerrard had a shocker not becuase he's playing in a role unsuited to him and at 34 his lack of movement and pace make him easy to man mark but because the players around him aren't making the opposition worried enough. That's explained it for me, bar on thing. Can you explain how he didn't win a single tackle or play a single through ball in 90 minutes?

Gerrard had a shocker because he was knackered, I'm not disputing that he had a shocker or that his age is not relevant.

But your focus on Gerrard as the crux of the problem is way off, and he is always the first one to be criticized when we have a poor spell. We should not be relying on our captain the way we are, Rodgers does need to come up with different midfield formations and the likes of Llalana, Can & Henderson need to step up this year so that we are not still relying on our aging star.

Gbear

rarnes1 wrote: »

I wonder if Gerrard was dropped for Boro and we lose who'll be the scapegoat then?

Rodgers is to blame for yesterday more than anyone. He isn't at the races this season so far and needs to sort it out asap

Our record against lower league teams over the past 15 years or so is pretty awful. Or if not the record itself the performances - a lot of nervy 2-1s, last gasp victories and the like.

I foresee a terrible match and a narrow win with people calling for the heads of Borini, Mignolet, Lucas, Buddha, René Descartes and the CEO of Eircom.

5starpool

On Tuesday I reckon we'll line out something like:

Jones
Enrique
Sakho
Toure
Manquillo (unless McLaughlin makes the step up)
Henderson
Lucas
Suso
Markovic
Lambert
Borini

Still a reasonably strong team, but might be a bit disjointed having not played together at all really.

klose

Mclaughlin seems to be eternally injured which is a shame as he looks a good player, would be amazed if he played tuesday.

Fescue

5starpool wrote: »

On Tuesday I reckon we'll line out something like:

Jones
Enrique
Sakho
Toure
Manquillo (unless McLaughlin makes the step up)
Henderson
Lucas
Suso
Markovic
Lambert
Borini

Still a reasonably strong team, but might be a bit disjointed having not played together at all really.

I'd play Lovren and Skrtel and Mignolet. They need to build an understanding and games is the only thing that will help that.

Agent Coulson

5starpool wrote: »

Still a reasonably strong team, but might be a bit disjointed having not played together at all really.

You can say that about any starting 11 we start at the moment really.

5starpool

Fescue wrote: »

I'd play Lovren and Skrtel and Mignolet. They need to build an understanding and games is the only thing that will help that.

Reasonable shout but unlikely to happen I think. I'd say Jones is essentially guaranteed any league cup games and early FA Cup ones.

Fescue

5starpool wrote: »

Reasonable shout but unlikely to happen I think. I'd say Jones is essentially guaranteed any league cup games and early FA Cup ones.

I think by the time the FA cup comes around Mignolet will be getting a run out in the early rounds. Victor Valdes looks like it will happen. He will surely be an improvement.

tok9

We're lucky the likes of Spurs and United are faltering right now. The weekend has been relatively kind to us considering how we did.

I'm still confident we'll have a good season but we need to gain some momentum very quickly.

michael999999

tok9 wrote: »

We're lucky the likes of Spurs and United are faltering right now. The weekend has been relatively kind to us considering how we did.

I'm still confident we'll have a good season but we need to gain some momentum very quickly.

Everton just gone 2-1 down as well!

5starpool

tok9 wrote: »

We're lucky the likes of Spurs and United are faltering right now. The weekend has been relatively kind to us considering how we did.

I'm still confident we'll have a good season but we need to gain some momentum very quickly.

Everyone doing poorly really. If the games stay as they are now (albeit with 40 mins to go nearly) we'll be 2 behind City and Arsenal, 1 behind Spurs and 1 ahead of Everton and Utd. We are playing very poorly in general but others aren't doing a lot better thankfully. Things will click soon for at least a couple of these teams, hopefully we'll be one of them.

Vicxas

michael999999 wrote: »

Everton just gone 2-1 down as well!

No-one is safe!

bluefinger

My reaction to today's footie.

Agent Coulson

The results this weekend really do show there will be no easy games this seson at all.

Unless you are playing Spurs of course :pac:

joe123

So....

Liverpool are ****e
United are ****e
Spurs are ****e
Everton are ****e

Have to say, even though I am still feeling down after the last few games, this evening made it it that small bit easier.

murpho999

Today's results have been great for us.

If Rodgers can decide our best eleven and settle on a system then I think Liverpool can out a run together and breakaway from the likes of Utd and Spurs.

Utopia Parkway

Dreadful yesterday but the rest of the weekend's results couldn't have gone any better for us bar Arsenal winning. Need to start winning ourselves though.

tok9

Couldn't have hoped for better unless Both City and Chelsea lost! :P

We could really do with a solid 2 or 3-0 win on Tuesday and our injuries to clear up for the weekend.

Soft Falling Rain

YouTookMyName wrote: »

It's the fúckin midfields fault.

Lucas-Allen-Henderson.

The midfield 3.

Keep pressing ala spurs last season, By delaying quick progress of the opposition attack, by preventing penetration behind the midfield line, by allowing the defensive line to remain compact and in communication, by tracking runs into the area and negating marking dilemmas for the centrebacks, by offering cover to pressuring fullbacks. It's really that simple.

Matuidi + Cabaye + Pogba = The Mamadou Sakho That Eats Diego Costa for Lunch (with some cinnamon-sprinkled David Silva on the side)

Wanyama + Schneiderlin + Lallana = The Dejan Lovren That Ensured Southampton Was the Only Traditionally "Small" Club to Have a Positive Goal Differential Last Season

Sahko + lovern are good players, we know this. Just this system is making them look like cúnts.

Meant to come back to this and say quality post. Both Sakho and Lovren came to this club with very good reputations. Agger, also, had a renaissance under Dalglish only to get poor under Rodgers.

So what's liklier? All 3 of them being found out or Rodgers not knowing how to actually ****ing coach defending?

MD1990

The World Cup & a lot of miles from pre-season are affecting the teams imo. No coincidence Chelsea who only went to Europe are in a lot better form. Real have started the season poor too after there US tour.

T-K-O

Soft Falling Rain wrote: »

Meant to come back to this and say quality post. Both Sakho and Lovren came to this club with very good reputations. Agger, also, had a renaissance under Dalglish only to get poor under Rodgers.

So what's liklier? All 3 of them being found out or Rodgers not knowing how to actually ****ing coach defending?

Yeah, BR is coaching the mistakes into the CB's

daithijjj

Only an Arsenal fan from Kerry can probably enjoy a pint this weekend/tonight.

klose

Soft Falling Rain wrote: »

Meant to come back to this and say quality post. Both Sakho and Lovren came to this club with very good reputations. Agger, also, had a renaissance under Dalglish only to get poor under Rodgers.

So what's liklier? All 3 of them being found out or Rodgers not knowing how to actually ****ing coach defending?

Its personnel and the fact rodgers is very offensive minded, look at Chelsea's team today, 2 centre backs who actually play together for an extended period of time, full backs who would be more defensively minded and a big monster in midfield in the form of matic.

Our centre backs are constantly chopping and changing, moreno and manquillo love getting forward (which is great) and the biggest problem is gerrard being the deepest midfielder, his playmaking isn't outweighing the fact he doesn't offer a lot defensively at the moment.

Agent Coulson

I would hope we will be looking to sign a midfielder in January.

I would like to see us try for Schneiderlin or someone like Matuidi or feck it both of them.

dirkmeister

daithijjj wrote: »

Only an Arsenal fan from Kerry can probably enjoy a pint this weekend/tonight.

And the outlook for Everton fans from Tipp doesn't look too good for next Saturday!


Only joking, Everton obviously could get something from the derby.


With regards the game last night, it was sad to see Liverpool content to play a bit of tiki taka in their own half with West Ham pretty much down to ten men with about 8 or 9 minutes left.

tok9

daithijjj wrote: »

Only an Arsenal fan from Kerry can probably enjoy a pint this weekend/tonight.

And us Liverpool ones can at least have some joy

Fescue

Soft Falling Rain wrote: »

Meant to come back to this and say quality post. Both Sakho and Lovren came to this club with very good reputations. Agger, also, had a renaissance under Dalglish only to get poor under Rodgers.

So what's liklier? All 3 of them being found out or Rodgers not knowing how to actually ****ing coach defending?

As I said before, when Agger was having his renaissance under Dalglish, we couldn't score goals. Remember, we had no cutting edge whatsoever, with Suarez in the team. So while he was getting all support from midfield we were toothless in attack.

It's relatively easy to do what Aston Villa did but I would wager that over the course of a full season, our attacking philosophy will win us more points than playing defensively and making Lovren, Sakho and Skrtel look great.

There is a better balance to be found for sure but I think Rodgers is as good a coach as you will find and he will get it right in the long run.

We got away with it this weekend it must be said.

Looks like the European games certainly affected most teams

And as for the sickos racially abusing Balotelli on Twitter, hope you are named and shamed.

BenEadir

garra wrote: »

Gerrard had a shocker because he was knackered, I'm not disputing that he had a shocker or that his age is not relevant.

But your focus on Gerrard as the crux of the problem is way off, and he is always the first one to be criticized when we have a poor spell. We should not be relying on our captain the way we are, Rodgers does need to come up with different midfield formations and the likes of Llalana, Can & Henderson need to step up this year so that we are not still relying on our aging star.

So we basically agree then, phew!! Used sparingly and in the right games (all CL and most home PL games IMHO) Gerrard can still be an effective option to have for this and possibly next season but he can no longer be a guaranteed starter and we need to bed Can and Allen and/or AN Other into the DM role if we're going to keep playing a formation which requires a DM.

Soft Falling Rain

rarnes1 wrote: »

And as for the sickos racially abusing Balotelli on Twitter, hope you are named and shamed.

Eh?