Liverpool FC Team Talk/Gossip/Rumours Thread 2014 - Mod Note in OP, 1/09

Fescue

BoardsMember wrote: »

Is this really what the aim is? Surely a deep lying midfield player has to be responsible enough to worry about players running past him. What exactly is he doing there if he is not?

Well Gerrard would play further forward and Lovren would be essentially where Gerrard is now.

Boom_Bap

Harry Palmr wrote: »

As discussed earlier here but only when Can is fit, though Allen could fit in there (Lucas at a push if leaving Gerrard out, though obviously not against Everton!)

I defo think that's why we signed Can, as well as being a great DM he's solid in defence, and plays at left back and centre half for the U-21's.

Lucas cant play that role, he prefers to nick a ball from the oppositions toes, or foul them.
Allen would be a bit too lightweight to slot in as centre half.

At the moment Gerrard is the perfect player for it, plus his distribution is pretty decent as well.

Demosthenese

Alot of attention going to Gerard and the Defence in general - what we need is to have a midfield capable of bullying and dominating a game! Look at Chelsea/City yesterday - Liverpool are a million miles away from Fernandinho/Toure type of partnership - Teams are admitting they are not giving us time to settle and dominate the ball. Last season we had Hendo leading from the front and being the aggressor, then even Coutinho/Sterling closing down fast when not in possession - this season we are a soft touch in midfield and thats why our defence is becoming exposed. Playing Sterling/Coutinho/Lallana and co is all well and good provided we have the ball!

Need to earn respect for the first 15mins of games, last season we were so fast out of the traps we blew teams away - other than Spurs we've simply not hit those same levels.

SlickRic

Fescue wrote: »

Well Gerrard would play further forward and Lovren would be essentially where Gerrard is now.

Rodgers sees Gerrard as our Pirlo.

we won't be seeing him any further forward than you see him now.

the issue with Gerrard is simply that he shouldn't be playing so many games. he needs someone to rotate with. he was absolutely bolloxed at the weekend, and couldn't do any covering which he normally does.

once more on the West Ham game, a huge problem was the fact that when the team hasn't the energy it normally has due to extra games, you need your defence to be reliable and help you get into the game. Mignolet was all over the place, and we couldn't mark properly at set-pieces.

you look at Chelsea yesterday. they were pretty lethargic, and offered almost nothing going forward, yet they were solid and did the basics well to make sure they were always in the game.

that is the difference I'm afraid. we weren't able to remain solid long enough to feel our way into it.

gafferino

SlickRic wrote: »

Rodgers sees Gerrard as our Pirlo.

we won't be seeing him any further forward than you see him now.

the issue with Gerrard is simply that he shouldn't be playing so many games. he needs someone to rotate with. he was absolutely bolloxed at the weekend, and couldn't do any covering which he normally does.

once more on the West Ham game, a huge problem was the fact that when the team hasn't the energy it normally has due to extra games, you need your defence to be reliable and help you get into the game. Mignolet was all over the place, and we couldn't mark properly at set-pieces.

you look at Chelsea yesterday. they were pretty lethargic, and offered almost nothing going forward, yet they were solid and did the basics well to make sure they were always in the game.

that is the difference I'm afraid. we weren't able to remain solid long enough to feel our way into it.

I suspect he wasnt supposed to play the whole game but the formation change altered the strategy.

Ill be f*cking astonished/fuming if he plays tomorrow night.

Fescue

SlickRic wrote: »

Rodgers sees Gerrard as our Pirlo.

we won't be seeing him any further forward than you see him now.

the issue with Gerrard is simply that he shouldn't be playing so many games. he needs someone to rotate with. he was absolutely bolloxed at the weekend, and couldn't do any covering which he normally does.

once more on the West Ham game, a huge problem was the fact that when the team hasn't the energy it normally has due to extra games, you need your defence to be reliable and help you get into the game. Mignolet was all over the place, and we couldn't mark properly at set-pieces.

you look at Chelsea yesterday. they were pretty lethargic, and offered almost nothing going forward, yet they were solid and did the basics well to make sure they were always in the game.

that is the difference I'm afraid. we weren't able to remain solid long enough to feel our way into it.

It was your post earlier on the page that got me thinking actually. The way the manager asks his central defenders to split, it does leave them exposed when we lose possession. Having three defenders at the back allows Sterling, Balotelli and Sturridge to play in their best positions while still retaining some defensive shape.

Having our three most dangerous players in their best positions is key for us as an attacking force.

With all due respect to Gerrard, he is being asked to play like Pirlo as you say, but he's not Pirlo. He doesn't have the subtley that Pirlo brings to the game. Essentially he's there for his long diagonal passes, something I think we need less of and something Lovren can do if required to some degree.

Godge

Fescue wrote: »

Eh, have you forgotten about Arsenal's performances against the top teams last season? A second string Dortmund could have beaten Arsenal by 6 or 7.

Fescue wrote: »

I was just making the point that Arsenal are still as vulnerable now as they were a few seasons ago.

It's got nothing to do with Liverpool.

I don't know about that. Your first post might have some merit but your second certainly doesn't.

Last season Arsenal conceded 41 goals, 17 of them in three games, meaning 24 goals conceded in 35 games, pretty impressive other than those three games.

Last season Liverpool conceded 50 goals, nine more than Arsenal, spread more evenly.

On those bare stats, the two teams are completely different.

Liverpool's scoring exploits last season masked a poor all-round defensive performance. This season, they appear to have lost the scoring ability (7 in 5 doesn't give much hope of 101 in 38 does it?) but the defensive performance hasn't changed much, if anything it has got worse (8 in 5 translates into 61 over the season).

Fescue

Godge wrote: »

I don't know about that. Your first post might have some merit but your second certainly doesn't.

Last season Arsenal conceded 41 goals, 17 of them in three games, meaning 24 goals conceded in 35 games, pretty impressive other than those three games.

Last season Liverpool conceded 50 goals, nine more than Arsenal, spread more evenly.

On those bare stats, the two teams are completely different.

Liverpool's scoring exploits last season masked a poor all-round defensive performance. This season, they appear to have lost the scoring ability (7 in 5 doesn't give much hope of 101 in 38 does it?) but the defensive performance hasn't changed much, if anything it has got worse (8 in 5 translates into 61 over the season).

I think I have enough on my plate worrying about Liverpools defensive shortcomings without getting into Arsenals also.

If you guys are happy with Arsenal defensively, then I'm pleased for you.

BenEadir

Fescue wrote: »

With all due respect to Gerrard, he is being asked to play like Pirlo as you say, but he's not Pirlo. He doesn't have the subtley that Pirlo brings to the game. Essentially he's there for his long diagonal passes, something I think we need less of and something Lovren can do if required to some degree.

^^^ +1 for this plus Pirlo is playing in the oohhh sooooo slooowww Italian league. I don't think Pirlo would be anywhere near as effective if he was playing PL week in week out. Sure he helped destroy Roy's England in the Summer but that was a once off. PL teams press the ball much more aggressively than Italian club sides typically do and certainly more than England under Roy do. After a few weeks in the PL teams would know how to cut the supply to him plus he'd be man marked just like Stevie is being and just like any 34/35/36 year old he too simply wouldn't have the legs to deal with it.

greendom

Fescue wrote: »

I was just making the point that Arsenal are still as vulnerable now as they were a few seasons ago.

It's got nothing to do with Liverpool.

Apologies, missed that bit of the quote. I thought you brought up Arsenal as Oranage2 is an Arsenal supporter

I am pie

Pirlo is a more subtle football than Gerrard every was. He is less spectacular and more intelligent in defence and attack. It's great to press the ball and push forward, but there are definitely times, especially with an unesttled nervy defence, when the best thing to do would be to be compact in our own half and be hard to play through. Someone on the pitch needs to read the game well enough to direct the players. Gerrard looks physically and emotionally wrecked. I dont believe he has got over "slipgate", a rubbish world cup and resigning as England captain and leaving the team. He's a moody fcker, and I would like to see him get some time to get his head together.

Lucas is just a busted flush unfortunately, never adapted to Rogers system, doesnt look fit or able.

Agent Coulson

Daniel Agger: I left Liverpool because of Brendan Rodgers.

"Let me put it this way, me and the manager were perhaps not on the same page last season. For most the season at least," says Daniel Agger in an exclusive interview with TV3 SPORT.
"He and I maybe went wrong with each other because I am very direct. I say things as they are, so I expect people will be the same to me. Maybe it's wrong to expect this sometimes."

“When you are a part of the starting eleven for several games in a row and the team have performed well, and you feel that you have played well, weren’t used more often.” “Then at the same time you see the statistics from your game - which are so important all around the world of football- and you don’t understand why you weren’t used more often.”

"I think he is an incredibly talented manager. You can't take that away from him. He's good in the way he trains and he is clever in the way he sets the team up. He's an extremely, extremely competent coach."

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/sport/football/teams/liverpool/11112829/Agger-I-left-Liverpool-because-of-Rodgers.html

That last bit seems like a big dig a Rodgers to me nothing more than a competent coach.

Harry Palmr

Harry Palmr wrote: »

My team for tomorrow

---

Mignolet
Manquillo---Lovren-Sakho--Enrique

---

Lucas---Rossiter

---

Lallana----

---

Markovic

---

Borini--Lambert

Jones, Stewart, Toure, Gerrard, Hendo, Ojo, Balotelli.

This is your best lineout tomorrow except one thing. Where's Sterling & Henderson? Injured?

Even though Liverpool really do need to drop Gerrard, Rodgers will play him regardless.

A passenger for Liverpool.

Demosthenese

BenEadir wrote: »

^^^ +1 for this plus Pirlo is playing in the oohhh sooooo slooowww Italian league. I don't think Pirlo would be anywhere near as effective if he was playing PL week in week out. Sure he helped destroy Roy's England in the Summer but that was a once off. PL teams press the ball much more aggressively than Italian club sides typically do and certainly more than England under Roy do. After a few weeks in the PL teams would know how to cut the supply to him plus he'd be man marked just like Stevie is being and just like any 34/35/36 year old he too simply wouldn't have the legs to deal with it.

Gerard is played in a deep role to get us out of the backline without any fuss. To make a range of passes to set our counterattack up with speed. Thereafter, to be the deep lying defensive player. To not allow anyone get at the backline with ease, to cover the ground between the backs and the mids ... it couldn't be any further from what Pirlo does!

Pirlo was good against England cos they stood off him, Costa Rica destroyed him imagine what the Pl would do. Not even a contest.

Unfortunately Gerard seems to be suffering a serious hangover from the end of the PL and WC coupled with Brendans lack of shape across the midfield. It doesn't bode well for Stevie at the moment.

Regardless of which its only a few weeks since we stuffed Spurs so i'd be more focussed on getting back to that rather than our deficiencies.

Agent Coulson

M!Ck^ wrote: »

This is your best lineout tomorrow except one thing. Where's Sterling & Henderson? Injured?

They seeing what it's like sitting in on a tuesday night watching Eastenders this season.

ebbsy

Liverpool should have made a serious push for Lopez. What we have now is a goalkeeper that is afraid of getting hurt. No use.

Agent Coulson

Agent Coulson wrote: »

They seeing what it's like sitting in on a tuesday night watching Eastenders this season.

"Great banter" :rolleyes:

It was a genuine question

noodler

Agent Coulson wrote: »

Daniel Agger: I left Liverpool because of Brendan Rodgers.







http://www.telegraph.co.uk/sport/football/teams/liverpool/11112829/Agger-I-left-Liverpool-because-of-Rodgers.html

That last bit seems like a big dig a Rodgers to me nothing more than a competent coach.

I personally would take less umbrage at the use of the word from a non-English speaking native. Have always felt the word only has negative undertones in the mother tongue.

Agent Coulson

M!Ck^ wrote: »

"Great banter" :rolleyes:

It was a genuine question

You know all about "Great banter" M!Ck^ :rolleyes:


It was a genuine answer they need to be rested as well.

Agent Coulson

Agent Coulson wrote: »

You know all about "Great banter" M!Ck^ :rolleyes:


It was a genuine answer they need to be rested as well.

Thanks for the actual genuine answer.

Your back four is under pressure to put on a good show tomorrow, I can still see some mistakes being made regardless of it being Middlesbrough. Would be surprised if you kept a clean sheet.

Not sure where the creativity comes from when Sterling is not playing. Lallanna has been poor so far.

kfallon

M!Ck^ wrote: »

Lallanna has been poor so far.

Played 60 mins and 45 mins and actually did well on Saturday!

kfallon

kfallon wrote: »

Played 60 mins and 45 mins and actually did well on Saturday!

Did well as in what exactly on Saturday? Assist? link-up play? Chance Creation?

kfallon

M!Ck^ wrote: »

Did well as in what exactly on Saturday? Assist? link-up play? Chance Creation?

Linked up well, was busy enough! Was a major improvement over Lucas whom he replaced. Brought a bit of energy to the team.

kfallon

kfallon wrote: »

Linked up well, was busy enough! Was a major improvement over Lucas whom he replaced. Brought a bit of energy to the team.

Anyone is an improvement over Lucas to be honest. You need a lot more than energy for someone supposedly worth 20+ million.

Grayditch

Agent Coulson wrote: »

You know all about "Great banter" M!Ck^ :rolleyes:

If only.

Grayditch

Grayditch wrote: »

If only.

Great banter

kfallon

M!Ck^ wrote: »

Anyone is an improvement over Lucas to be honest. You need a lot more than energy for someone supposedly worth 20+ million.

He's coming back off an imjury, hence why he only played a half!
But obviously you are judging a guy who missed some of pre season on two games (none of which he completed as he's trying to find match fitness)

You couldn't make it up! :rolleyes:

Demosthenese

M!Ck^ wrote: »

Did well as in what exactly on Saturday? Assist? link-up play? Chance Creation?

Looked lively, almost scored but got caught under his feet, linked well for what possession we actually had and got another 60mins under his belt as he is sure to be a guy that will be a first team player for the season once he gets fully match fit. He is calm in possession and has 2 good feet. Rarely dispossessed.

... could serious look at the whole team after a display like that and say "have been poor" ... but you need to be prepared to give lads a chance to prove themselves. Not quite ready to throw Lallana on the scrapheap after 100 mins of football.

MR NINE

Id imagine tomorrow will be used to give new players more experience. I doubt rodgers really cares about the league cup this season given we have bigger fish to fry and already appear to be struggling somewhat to cope with the demands of two major competitions. I expect all of lambert, borini, lallana, markovic, manquillo, moreno, lovren and sakho to play. Lucas and henderson probably the other two simply because we dont have anyone else for centre mid. The full backs might be rested, but id rather see more game time for the back four to play along side each other. Losing tommorrow would of course be a blow to morale and confidence since it would be three defeats on the trot, but i wont be too disheartened if we field a weakened team and lose, id rather that than see us field a full strength team and win. Getting a result on sunday is far more important than any result tomorrow.

Demosthenese

Demosthenese wrote: »

Looked lively, almost scored but got caught under his feet, linked well for what possession we actually had and got another 60mins under his belt as he is sure to be a guy that will be a first team player for the season once he gets fully match fit. He is calm in possession and has 2 good feet. Rarely dispossessed.

... could serious look at the whole team after a display like that and say "have been poor" ... but you need to be prepared to give lads a chance to prove themselves. Not quite ready to throw Lallana on the scrapheap after 100 mins of football.

Fair point. He does needs more time to be judged. I'm just basing it on what I have watched of him so far.

MR NINE

M!Ck^ wrote: »

Anyone is an improvement over Lucas to be honest. You need a lot more than energy for someone supposedly worth 20+ million.

Yeah he hasnt scored enough goals yet, we should probably cut our losses and ship him out, cant see it turning around for him

dogbert27

MR NINE wrote: »

Id imagine tomorrow will be used to give new players more experience. I doubt rodgers really cares about the league cup this season given we have bigger fish to fry and already appear to be struggling somewhat to cope with the demands of two major competitions. I expect all of lambert, borini, lallana, markovic, manquillo, moreno, lovren and sakho to play. Lucas and henderson probably the other two simply because we dont have anyone else for centre mid. The full backs might be rested, but id rather see more game time for the back four to play along side each other. Losing tommorrow would of course be a blow to morale and confidence since it would be three defeats on the trot, but i wont be too disheartened if we field a weakened team and lose, id rather that than see us field a full strength team and win. Getting a result on sunday is far more important than any result tomorrow.

Rodgers said before the season that this year he has to win a cup. Realistically it's either the League Cup or the FA Cup.

I'd be surprised if he took tomorrow night lightly.

Demosthenese

M!Ck^ wrote: »

Fair point. He does needs more time to be judged. I'm just basing it on what I have watched of him so far.

I think everyone is looking at Liverpools new guys, Lallana/Ballo/Marko/Lovren and saying the same thing! Of course, Liverpool supporters want them to succeed whereas everyone else wants them to do a Spurs ... for now though, i'd have a little more faith in Lallana being a hit purely cos we seen alot more of him last season ... probably same for Lovren. The others really have it all to prove over the next 5-6 games.

That said, always easier to "gel" into a team that is on a good run! Liverpool are vulnerable at the moment and with a Derby this week ... it could be a bad time to lose another game but more so to perform as badly.

Time to answer the critics.

MR NINE

dogbert27 wrote: »

Rodgers said before the season that this year he has to win a cup. Realistically it's either the League Cup or the FA Cup.

I'd be surprised if he took tomorrow night lightly.

I wasnt aware of that, sounds like hell be taking it seriously so. Im not saying i dont want us to try and win but certain players deffo shouldnt be involved, namely gerrard. I would also be a bit peeved if sterling starts after he was rested in a league game last week, though perhaps rodgers had reasons for that im not aware of. Was there any explanation given for coutinhos absence this weekend?

DVDM93

GavRedKing wrote: »

We've a bus that shouldnt see much mileage this year if ye want a loan of it? Does the job well actually.

Make sure ye don't overfill it with oil this time, Gerrard slipped on it last time out.

Ouch, that felt like punching myself in the face

DVDM93

gafferino wrote: »

Is there a presser today for tomorrows game?

Bad week for a midweek game imo. No time to work on whats going wrong.

Nothing a game of head tennis can't fix.

Mr_Red

Who ever thought both our teams who go full retard in the same season.

MD1990

No post in a hour? A lacklustre Monday Meltdown.

Charlie19

Daniel Agger speaks out on leaving Liverpool.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uRhXrhBgaQM

And for those of you that don'y speak Danish;)

http://www.thisisanfield.com/2014/09/brendan-rodgers-didnt-appreciate-qualities-daniel-agger-speaks-liverpool-departure/

This paragraph really sums up Aggers loyalty.

“At least I have learned a lot from last year. I have learned that a lot of players in the world of football only think of what is best for themselves. I haven’t done that for the biggest part in my career. But with all that has been said and done and understand why players think think this way, even though it has been something I couldn’t relate to in the past. It has been an eye opener.”

~Rebel~

Agent Coulson wrote: »

Daniel Agger: I left Liverpool because of Brendan Rodgers.

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/sport/football/teams/liverpool/11112829/Agger-I-left-Liverpool-because-of-Rodgers.html

That last bit seems like a big dig a Rodgers to me nothing more than a competent coach.

Maybe, but I wouldn't be too quick to judge things based on someone elses translation. The interview wasn't given in English, so the language of the translation is completely open to interpretation. In context, the word "competent" doesn't really fit there, so personally i'd say it's not worth reading into. Particularly since you can see from the headline that the piece is extremely sensationalistic and biased.

gosplan

You guys should listen to Wenger. As much as you might hate him and feel that he's a stubborn got who costs his team by staying so set in his ways, there are also some things he's done and continuously done well.

He had always maintained that bringing in more than 2-3 players is a risk to the continuity of the team. I'm not saying he's right to keep numbers in low but you have to accept that there's something in it and anyone judging Liverpool or new arrivals right now is doing so way to early.

Added to the need for general strength, Liverpool also have to deal with losing a guy who's probably the best striker in the world right now.

It needs far more patience.

gosplan

gosplan wrote: »

........ Liverpool also have to deal with losing a guy who's probably the best striker in the world right now.

It needs far more patience.

Indeed.

Also Sturridge is a huge loss, can't be overstated, Balotelli will also benefit with Sturridge back.

Lallana will also get better the more he plays, Gerrard will benefit once Allen and/or Can are back as Rodgers will have options.

I reckon the last two PL games are as bad as it gets for Liverpool this season

breghall

Augeo wrote: »

Indeed.


I reckon the last two PL games are as bad as it gets for Liverpool this season

Wish i had your optimism....

Kirby

DVDM93 wrote: »

Nothing a game of head tennis can't fix.

Zing! I laughed way more than I should have at this.

DVDM93

Kirby wrote: »

Zing! I laughed way more than I should have at this.

This was my laugh of the day haha; this quote from the F365 winners and losers column pretty much sums things up from the weekend

"Liverpool's defensive ineptitude was horribly exposed, like a hideous creature born in a laboratory and brought into daylight for the first time, shrieking and soiling itself"

Thank NyOmnishbles

Francie Barrett

Charlie19 wrote: »

Daniel Agger speaks out on leaving Liverpool.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uRhXrhBgaQM

And for those of you that don'y speak Danish;)

http://www.thisisanfield.com/2014/09/brendan-rodgers-didnt-appreciate-qualities-daniel-agger-speaks-liverpool-departure/

This paragraph really sums up Aggers loyalty.

“At least I have learned a lot from last year. I have learned that a lot of players in the world of football only think of what is best for themselves. I haven’t done that for the biggest part in my career. But with all that has been said and done and understand why players think think this way, even though it has been something I couldn’t relate to in the past. It has been an eye opener.”

I like the guy a lot, but some of what he's saying is very naive.

~Rebel~

I'm really looking forward, one of these days, to seeing;

---

Sturridge--Balotelli

---

Sterling

---

Lallana

---

Henderson

---

Allen
Moreno--Lovren--Skrtel--Manquillo


High energy and high speed throughout the team, with real game changers on the bench. I still love Gerrard and think he has a place, but i'd really like to see how the above would fair.

Bandana boy

Can we not please hijack this deal

Sami-khedira

He is exactly what we need imo.

redbaron_99

~Rebel~ wrote: »

I'm really looking forward, one of these days, to seeing;

---

Sturridge--Balotelli

---

Sterling

---

Lallana

---

Henderson

---

Allen
Moreno--Lovren--Skrtel--Manquillo


High energy and high speed throughout the team, with real game changers on the bench. I still love Gerrard and think he has a place, but i'd really like to see how the above would fair.

I'd agree that Gerrard at least needs a rest. But that trio of Sterling, Lallana and Allen seems a little lightweight defensively. Just looking at it from an opposition's point of view, that would be an area I would think could be exploited. And believe me, as a united fan, I know all too well what happens when teams start running through a midfield straight at the heart of the defence.

DVDM93

Steve Finnan, such a solid and extremely underrated player.