Kerry v Donegal All Ireland football final 2014 - Mod warning Post #598

realweirdo

Listrydude wrote: »

Of course I wouldnt be happy to see this type of football as the future. Kerry have the tactical ability as well as dept of talent to change the game depending on who the opposition.

Paranoia is what makes people climb trees for their mate, in case theres a guy with red hair training!!

I hear what people are saying about Kerry being able to adapt.

But the point is, managers all over the country will have watched the game yesterday and decided that they will never have a Gooch or James O'Donohue and compete in a normal way, and because Donegal and Kerry played ultra defensive in the final, that will be the way to go.

Ulster is usually the province where counties adopt new systems first largely because its so tight and competitive and everyone is looking for an edge. Next year Ulster will be full of ultra blanket defences. The rest of the country may follow suit. Hopefully not. Counties like Mayo, Dublin and Cork still have the talent to avoid this set up, and hopefully one of them restores proper football next year and doesn't succumb to the ultra defence approach.

keeponhurling

At least in fairness to the ref he added on an additional minute or more than the allotted injury time, rightfully

So BJK's actions didn't really help his team too much

Some refs blow up on the dot , which makes time wasting worthwhile

Triboro

Interesting game to watch tactics wise,had to feel for donegal goalkeeper after the great year he had, lousy stunt yer man kicking ball off the cone at that stage,real petty stuff.

DoctaDee

Any truth to the rumour that when Kieran O'Leary brought the cup into the Berkeley last night he clipped it off the front door, a lot of people said there was a hollow ring off Sam - some attributed it to the fact they hadn't beaten the Dubs

Let the games begin !!!

klairondavis

keeponhurling wrote: »

anyone know why ?

A third man tackle off the ball.

Kerrydude1981

DoctaDee wrote: »

Any truth to the rumour that when Kieran O'Leary brought the cup into the Berkeley last night he clipped it off the front door, a lot of people said there was a hollow ring off Sam - some attributed it to the fact they hadn't beaten the Dubs

Let the games begin !!!

robbiezero

DoctaDee wrote: »

Any truth to the rumour that when Kieran O'Leary brought the cup into the Berkeley last night he clipped it off the front door, a lot of people said there was a hollow ring off Sam - some attributed it to the fact they hadn't beaten the Dubs

Let the games begin !!!

Mixed feelings for Dubs I would imagine after yesterday?

• Disappointment at seeing an All-Ireland slip that was there for the winning for them.
• Great hope and expectation for next year after seeing Kerry beat a Donegal side without causing their blanket defensive system anywhere near as much problems as Dublin did.

I am looking forward to next year already.

• Will Mayo's new management team revitalise their fortunes?
• Kerry with Gooch back, maybe Tommy Walsh and young Spillane might even get into the side.
• Armagh under McGeeney will feel they can compete with anyone after nearly beating Donegal.
• Dublin with the best forwards in the country. Can they sort out their defensive and midfield problems. If so surely they win the All-Ireland.
• What version of Cork will we see.
• Will Donegal come out to play a bit more next year. I think they have far more ability than that system allows them to show. Mark McHugh presumably will be back and could be a massive addition?

Just a pity that we have to play out the farce that is the provincial championships before we get to the real business. The National League was actually far more entertaining than the provincials, some belters of games in Div 1.

Triboro

DoctaDee wrote: »

Any truth to the rumour that when Kieran O'Leary brought the cup into the Berkeley last night he clipped it off the front door, a lot of people said there was a hollow ring off Sam - some attributed it to the fact they hadn't beaten the Dubs

Let the games begin !!!

So for the Dublin/Donegal semi final,Who were they rootin for in kerry.Be honest now!

Kerrydude1981

Triboro wrote: »

So for the Dublin/Donegal semi final,Who were they rootin for in kerry.Be honest now!

Donegal.

Kerrydude1981

DoctaDee wrote: »

Dublin they are brilliant and the bestest team ever. I wish Kerry could play like the Dubs ....:rolleyes:

Enough Kerry blood in that Dublin team

DoctaDee

Kerrydude1981 wrote: »

Enough Kerry blood in that Dublin team

LMAO.. I read the lads post wrong .. I thought he thought I was from Kerry

Oh yeah at Kerry blood, putting it to good use in a football team

Triboro

Kerrydude1981 wrote: »

Enough Kerry blood in that Dublin team

Plenty of Donegal blood in it too!

DoctaDee

I meant to say that based on EF's management performance against Dublin in 2013 & Mayo/Donegal this year I'm strongly inclined to believe in this whole adaptability of Kerry - it's a vast playing template to have in your locker. The only caveat I'd have is the fact that their latest playing style has got them the biggest prize, so it might be an evolutionary road they're taking.

This begs the question, if that is the case, whether the Gooch has a role in a blanket defence ?

homerjay2005

DoctaDee wrote: »

Any truth to the rumour that when Kieran O'Leary brought the cup into the Berkeley last night he clipped it off the front door, a lot of people said there was a hollow ring off Sam - some attributed it to the fact they hadn't beaten the Dubs

Let the games begin !!!

Not kerrys fault the Dubs didnt make the final!we will have to be content with beating the team that absolutely hammered them in the semi.

major deegan

DoctaDee wrote: »

I meant to say that based on EF's management performance against Dublin in 2013 & Mayo/Donegal this year I'm strongly inclined to believe in this whole adaptability of Kerry - it's a vast playing template to have in your locker. The only caveat I'd have is the fact that their latest playing style has got them the biggest prize, so it might be an evolutionary road they're taking.

This begs the question, if that is the case, whether the Gooch has a role in a blanket defence ?

You'd have to say that just like EF the gooch would adapt to whatever is put in front of him.

DoctaDee

homerjay2005 wrote: »

Not kerrys fault the Dubs didnt make the final!we will have to be content with beating the team that absolutely hammered them in the semi.

Oh absolutely, it's not Kerrys fault Dublin weren't there .. there isn't a sarcasm smilie, but I thought it was evident from my post I was yankin yer chain ... but still and all you know there's a modicum of truth there doncha

DoctaDee

major deegan wrote: »

You'd have to say that just like EF the gooch would adapt to whatever is put in front of him.

Yeah agreed, I'd see him play the role JOD performed so well yesterday ..

corny

DoctaDee wrote: »

I meant to say that based on EF's management performance against Dublin in 2013 & Mayo/Donegal this year I'm strongly inclined to believe in this whole adaptability of Kerry - it's a vast playing template to have in your locker. The only caveat I'd have is the fact that their latest playing style has got them the biggest prize, so it might be an evolutionary road they're taking.

This begs the question, if that is the case, whether the Gooch has a role in a blanket defence ?

I don't see why not. Gooch has never given any indication he's not willing to work hard. He'd also be perfect for them because, unlike Donegal, Kerry look to move the ball quickly by kick passing. Gooch is best in the business at that.

On their style? I think its overstated that their 'system' won the day. IMO the team who worked the hardest and wanted it most won the All Ireland.

DoctaDee

corny wrote: »

....On their style? I think its overstated that their 'system' won the day. IMO the team who worked the hardest and wanted it most won the All Ireland.

Dunno how "wanted it most" is gauged tbh .. I thought Kerry were a better football team than Donegal and that was the winning of it

FlashR2D2

DoctaDee wrote: »

Any truth to the rumour that when Kieran O'Leary brought the cup into the Berkeley last night he clipped it off the front door, a lot of people said there was a hollow ring off Sam - some attributed it to the fact they hadn't beaten the Dubs

Let the games begin !!!

The Dubs weren't even at the races this year, all hype (media), if they had met Kerry, Mayo, or Cork early on, they would have been gone.

They were bloody good last year though, hard to keep the hunger for a second year running, very few teams do it.

DoctaDee

FlashR2D2 wrote: »

The Dubs weren't even at the races this year, all hype (media), if they had met Kerry, Mayo, or Cork early on, they would have been gone.

They were bloody good last year though, hard to keep the hunger for a second year running, very few teams do it.

You're entitled to yer opinion, but I thought Dublin were better this year than last ..

major deegan

FlashR2D2 wrote: »

The Dubs weren't even at the races this year, all hype (media), if they had met Kerry, Mayo, or Cork early on, they would have been gone.

They were bloody good last year though, hard to keep the hunger for a second year running, very few teams do it.

Dunno about that,they had 15/16 points per game to spare coming in to the Donegal game... If Durcan hadn't made that save in the semis i'd say Sam would not be leaving Dublin this morning!

flasher0030

Ace2007 wrote: »

Your right they don't, but a young man today is being slated from media and all angles for kicking a ball 3 yards away. Is that right - form of bullying one may say??? But I suppose that's ok in this day and age......

Not one person is condemning Donegal's similar actions of the course of this years championship. i.e. anti Kerry Brigade - have the same with Dublin.

Double standard in the media and on boards. Ban me if you like I'm pointing out the pure facts.

You're looking for the answer to the question as to how they are different. The difference is that the keeper (Paul Durkan) has possession of the ball. He puts it down on the tee, and is considering his options. At this moment in time, the ball is his. He has complete control of the play, and it should be some form of action by him to get play moving again. This is his privilege for months/years of training and practicing strategic kickouts. When some <snip> comes in and purposely interrupts this “ritual” by kicking the ball of the tee, it is shows complete disrespect for the keeper, and the spirit of the game.

In the 2 examples that you are claiming are the same, the free/sideline has been called, but the ball is somewhat in a neutral zone. Possession had not been taken by the player/team in receipt of the free/sideline. I’m not saying it’s ok to kick the ball away – this action should be penalised, not different than the Kerry boy yesterday. But your point does not relate to applying the actual rules of the game and differentiating one similar situation from another. You want an understanding as to why people are berating Keane but playing down the Donegal actions. Kicking the ball away when the ball is not generally in possession is seen a tactic of wasting time, and whilst not insulting, it is frustrating alright. However, kicking the ball of the tee of a keeper who was in possession of the ball and personally set the ball up on the tee, is seen more as disrespect and a personal insult to the goalie and steps over the boundaries of the game.

keane2097

flasher0030 wrote: »

You're looking for the answer to the question as to how they are different. The difference is that the keeper (Paul Durkan) has possession of the ball. He puts it down on the tee, and is considering his options. At this moment in time, the ball is his. He has complete control of the play, and it should be some form of action by him to get play moving again. This is his privilege for months/years of training and practicing strategic kickouts. When some <snip> comes in and purposely interrupts this “ritual” by kicking the ball of the tee, it is shows complete disrespect for the keeper, and the spirit of the game.

In the 2 examples that you are claiming are the same, the free/sideline has been called, but the ball is somewhat in a neutral zone. Possession had not been taken by the player/team in receipt of the free/sideline. I’m not saying it’s ok to kick the ball away – this action should be penalised, not different than the Kerry boy yesterday. But your point does not relate to applying the actual rules of the game and differentiating one similar situation from another. You want an understanding as to why people are berating Keane but playing down the Donegal actions. Kicking the ball away when the ball is not generally in possession is seen a tactic of wasting time, and whilst not insulting, it is frustrating alright. However, kicking the ball of the tee of a keeper who was in possession of the ball and personally set the ball up on the tee, is seen more as disrespect and a personal insult to the goalie and steps over the boundaries of the game.

A nice series of bizarre, arbitrary, made up nonsense about rituals and possession neutral zones along with a description of a guy you don't know anything about as a <snip>.

Classy stuff, looking forward to hearing more.

Chrissybhoy

DoctaDee wrote: »

Dunno how "wanted it most" is gauged tbh .. I thought Kerry were a better football team than Donegal and that was the winning of it

Bringing more intensity to the game and a hunger eg crowleys block

DoctaDee

Chrissybhoy wrote: »

Bringing more intensity to the game and a hunger eg crowleys block

Yeah again I'm not sold on hunger either ... you'd imagine that Mayo would've been home and hosed by now if that was the case. Crowleys block was a fantastic piece of athleticism from a great defender. Knowing the northern teams they bring a sense of purpose to everything they do on AI day, latterly Jim McG in particular would've had them run thru a brick wall

flasher0030

keane2097 wrote: »

A nice series of bizarre, arbitrary, made up nonsense about rituals and possession neutral zones along with a description of a guy you don't know anything about as a <snip>.

Classy stuff, looking forward to hearing more.

Ok - in simple terms for you. Kicking the ball away whilst the goalie is about to take the kickout is different than the other 2 instances because the ball was in the goalies possession when he was about to kick it and Keane came along and kicked it away. He had the ball and put it on his tee. This was different than the other 2 situations, because the opposing teams had not taken possession of ball. The difference is the level of disrespect ushered by the offending player. And in the case yesterday, it was an insult to an individual (Durkan), whereas kicking the ball away whilst not in possession is frustrating for a team in the form of time-wasting, but does not embarrass one individual in one of the largest GAA spectacles of the year.

The poster asked about 5 times for the difference. So that's my opinion on it. And you're absolutely right in that I should not have used an insulting word with reference to Barry John Keane. Rush of blood. Apologies for that.

keeponhurling

robbiezero wrote: »

I am looking forward to next year already.

• Will Mayo's new management team revitalise their fortunes?
• Kerry with Gooch back, maybe Tommy Walsh and young Spillane might even get into the side.
• Armagh under McGeeney will feel they can compete with anyone after nearly beating Donegal.
• Dublin with the best forwards in the country. Can they sort out their defensive and midfield problems. If so surely they win the All-Ireland.
• What version of Cork will we see.
• Will Donegal come out to play a bit more next year. I think they have far more ability than that system allows them to show. Mark McHugh presumably will be back and could be a massive addition?
  [/
  

Plus newly promoted Clare to turn their sights on Sam, after nearly beating Kerry this year
And already won the lot with the small ball.....

Chrissybhoy

DoctaDee wrote: »

Yeah again I'm not sold on hunger either ... you'd imagine that Mayo would've been home and hosed by now if that was the case. Crowleys block was a fantastic piece of athleticism from a great defender. Knowing the northern teams they bring a sense of purpose to everything they do on AI day, latterly Jim McG in particular would've had them run thru a brick wall

But they lacked that intensity that the usually bring like in the dublin game there was a hunger. I didn't see that yesterday in a tackle in there runs noting. Kerry on the other hand I did see a hunger and a want even tho technically they were bad. Both teams were bad technically and I think Kerry won because they brought a little more intensity. They had luck too with the two goals and McFadden hitting the post at the end

elguapo

major deegan wrote: »

Dunno about that,they had 15/16 points per game to spare coming in to the Donegal game... If Durcan hadn't made that save in the semis i'd say Sam would not be leaving Dublin this morning!

But he did, and when Donegal didn't just roll over, Dublin were completely unable to cope. They knew only one way to play, and when it didn't work they floundered.

Peist2007

TCDStudent1 wrote: »

Every sport has bad matches. Gaelic Football is not unique here. There can be bad hurling matches too (look at this years quarter finals).

I think you'll find that most of the people in here talking about hurling v football are the types that watch both sports between the August Bank Holiday and the end of September every year. Then, back in their box and its Lunster and Munster and then the world competition that is known as the 6 Nations. People dont have a clue and wouldnt know a good hurling or football match if it slapped them in the face

elguapo

Chrissybhoy wrote: »

But they lacked that intensity that the usually bring like in the dublin game there was a hunger. I didn't see that yesterday in a tackle in there runs noting. Kerry on the other hand I did see a hunger and a want even tho technically they were bad. Both teams were bad technically and I think Kerry won because they brought a little more intensity. They had luck too with the two goals and McFadden hitting the post at the end

I'd hardly call Geaney's goal lucky. A super catch followed by a quality finish to the bottom corner.

Nidgeweasel

This BJK thing is blown out of all proportion. He was rightfully yellow carded for what he did that should be it case closed.

robbiezero

In front of me in the Davin Stand, the Donegal backs in particular McGlynn and Neil McGee were over to the umpire numerous times during the the first half and seemed to be giving out about something. Anyone have any idea what all that was about?

robbiezero

elguapo wrote: »

I'd hardly call Geaney's goal lucky. A super catch followed by a quality finish to the bottom corner.

Lucky in that it was a deflected kick maybe. But the catch and especially the finish were sublime.

Kerrydude1981

Nidgeweasel wrote: »

This BJK thing is blown out of all proportion. He was rightfully yellow carded for what he did that should be it case closed.

Ya,he did get booked,that should be that as you said case closed,could you imagine the uproar if he didnt get booked!!

corny

DoctaDee wrote: »

Dunno how "wanted it most" is gauged tbh .. I thought Kerry were a better football team than Donegal and that was the winning of it

A brief example would be what McGuinness highlighted in his interview. He noticed players weren't committing to the attack in the numbers they should (players not working as hard as they should). As far as i could see that didn't happen with Kerry in either semi (despite having ample cause to relent in either semi) or the final. Imo its the winning of games more than is generally thought.

Chrissybhoy

elguapo wrote: »

I'd hardly call Geaney's goal lucky. A super catch followed by a quality finish to the bottom corner.

Lucky the ball fell to him O Brien was going for the point the defender got a hand to it out put it in Geaneys direction good catch and finish tho

Peist2007

DoctaDee wrote: »

You're entitled to yer opinion, but I thought Dublin were better this year than last ..

The Dubs got the sh1te kicked out of them in the semis. Completely shown up. Made look naive and then clueless as they tried to find goals. Overrated by the media and, clearly, by their fans before the event and now seemingly after the event too.

DoctaDee

Peist2007 wrote: »

The Dubs got the sh1te kicked out of them in the semis. Completely shown up. Made look naive and then clueless as they tried to find goals. Overrated by the media and, clearly, by their fans before the event and now seemingly after the event too.

Oh alright so, unfortunately I can't change the county I support .. I'll be doing the same next year

jive

Nidgeweasel wrote: »

This BJK thing is blown out of all proportion. He was rightfully yellow carded for what he did that should be it case closed.

Yeah I don't understand the uproar. It was blatant time wasting on his behalf, not even a fake injury or anything, so the referee was obviously going to tack on a bit of additional time as a result of him doing it; all it served to achieve was to highlight himself as a complete knob in front of the entire country

emanresu esrever

Seamu$ wrote: »

I agree. We have played different types of games against Cork, Mayo and Donegal and against Dublin last year. It's a tactical versatility and it's great to see. For too long in the last decade we didn't have the ability to do this and ended up losing any physical battles against Tyrone (as well as Armagh in 02, Down in 10 and Donegal in 12). If you don't have it other teams will figure out your weakness and exploit it. It's good to see we've learned to adapt our game and mix it up. I strongly believe we'll be able to play our more traditional game, or play a more entertaining swashbuckling style, when it's appropriate.

I think if we were playing Dublin yesterday it would have been a much different type of game & would probably have ended up in a high scoring shoot out.

Eh you beat Down.....

emanresu esrever

Seamu$ wrote: »

I agree. We have played different types of games against Cork, Mayo and Donegal and against Dublin last year. It's a tactical versatility and it's great to see. For too long in the last decade we didn't have the ability to do this and ended up losing any physical battles against Tyrone (as well as Armagh in 02, Down in 10 and Donegal in 12). If you don't have it other teams will figure out your weakness and exploit it. It's good to see we've learned to adapt our game and mix it up. I strongly believe we'll be able to play our more traditional game, or play a more entertaining swashbuckling style, when it's appropriate.

I think if we were playing Dublin yesterday it would have been a much different type of game & would probably have ended up in a high scoring shoot out.

Eh you beat Down.....

DoctaDee

emanresu esrever wrote: »

Eh you beat Down.....

http://www.rte.ie/sport/gaa/football/2010/0731/268750-kerry_down/

emanresu esrever

keane2097 wrote: »

A nice series of bizarre, arbitrary, made up nonsense about rituals and possession neutral zones along with a description of a guy you don't know anything about as a <snip>.

Classy stuff, looking forward to hearing more.

i cant put my finger on it but someting tells me you are somewhat biased in this debate!

As decent a ball player as BJK is he will be rememberred by many for this petty incident. While he didnt injure anyone etc he brought the game into disrepute and embarrased himself somewhat!

I dont blame him for not caring at this moment but he achieved little from it ( in fact the sequence of events after almost cost kerry the winning of the game - would he care then!!)

It goes on a lot but that doesnt make it right. And he deserves to be highlighted for it. Saying that he scored a crucial point also.

DDC1990

jive wrote: »

Yeah I don't understand the uproar. It was blatant time wasting on his behalf, not even a fake injury or anything, so the referee was obviously going to tack on a bit of additional time as a result of him doing it; all it served to achieve was to highlight himself as a complete knob in front of the entire country

Look the guy is a sound lad in person. A few girls went into the family shop in Tralee and told his mother that they were massive fans, so the mother rang him, and he came down into the shop to meet the girls and take a few photo's with them.

He made himself look like a right tit though.

I'm sure he won't care, he has his All Ireland medal, but there was no need for it.

The Ref ended up adding on and extra minute and a half or so (seemed like 10 minutes! :P ) for that and the Shmozzle, which though it was started by a late hit from a Donegal player, was continued by Declan, rather comically flopping down on top of the pile.

BJK has got awful abuse, especially from Kerry fans, over the last few years. He's been told he's not good enough, that he's not an intercounty player, people literally groaned around me when he was brought on against Galway.

He has proven himself this year, that while he's not a starting Kerry player, that he is an exceptional footballer, and is now an All Ireland Champion.

Hopefully he gets a few more and cuts out the cynical bollocks though.

p.s Why on earth did he tap it 5 yards off the tee? Why not blaze it into the Hill? It literally wasted 10 seconds!

p.p.s People need to stop acting like its the first time its happened. Stephen O'Neill has done it. The Donegal minors did it vs Dublin in the Semi (if I recall correctly), Kevin McLoughlin of Mayo tried to hit the ball out of Cluxtons hand in the league match, where Cluxton booted him and got send off. It doesn't make it right, but spare the faux outrage.

gaffer91

Re BJK, Durcan was going to take the kick out from a bit in front of the 13 metre line. As Moran was forced to reset a 45 earlier in the match for a similar infringement, I don't think it was unreasonable for Durcan to be forced to reset the kick out (which he ultimately didn't do). So while it might have been wrong for BJK to kick the ball away as he did, it would have been more wrong for Durcan to take the kick out from the wrong place.

realweirdo

I think Donegal, Mayo, Kerry and Dublin will make it to the semi finals again next year. These teams even when pushed as Mayo were by Cork and Donegal were by Armagh, always have enough in the tank to get them over the line and into semi finals.

In reality there's not a big difference between all these four. Mayo could have beaten Kerry. Donegal can beat any of them if they improve their game a bit, likewise Kerry and Dublin can beat the others. All four are relatively evenly matched.

Are Kerry favourites again for next year? It's horses for courses in my opinion. Dublin would struggle against Donegal and possibly Mayo but might have the beating of Kerry in an open free flowing contest. Mayo, you never really know what you will get. Donegal can beat Dublin but struggle against Kerry.

Next year, its anyones title. I fancy the Dubs to come storming back, if they can learn from their mistakes.

emanresu esrever

DoctaDee wrote: »

http://www.rte.ie/sport/gaa/football/2010/0731/268750-kerry_down/

My bad! Thinking of cork v Down! Now that was a classic

realweirdo

DoctaDee wrote: »

I meant to say that based on EF's management performance against Dublin in 2013 & Mayo/Donegal this year I'm strongly inclined to believe in this whole adaptability of Kerry - it's a vast playing template to have in your locker. The only caveat I'd have is the fact that their latest playing style has got them the biggest prize, so it might be an evolutionary road they're taking.

This begs the question, if that is the case, whether the Gooch has a role in a blanket defence ?

It's brought Kerry success. Will they go back to playing 15 men on 15 next year against the likes of Dublin or Donegal or Mayo? I doubt it very much. They might be able to win Munster playing man to man but when it comes to top counties you can be sure they will become ultra conservative and defensive and not take any chances. When they lose the ball they retreat in numbers and even allow the other team have plenty of possession out the field. Managers do what they need to do to win, not to please the neutrals.