Kerry v Donegal All Ireland football final 2014 - Mod warning Post #598

Kerryfootball

DDC1990083 wrote:

My mother was saying that Donegal spent so much on the training camps, and helicopter trips for training that they couldn't afford the hat for Durcan.

In all honesty, I feel really sorry for Durcan. He was stand out all year (2 goals conceded) but didn't seem right all game. He was indecisive (apart from one high ball that he came out an claimed) nearly getting caught from that long ball from JO'D that nearly bounced into the net, the shot that bounced off the post and the wayward kickouts.

He wasnt right during the warm up in my opinion.
He drove a ball into the Hogan stand hitting a girl.
He then drove one into the Artane Boys band!

To be fair if your tactics are to kick the majority of your restarts short that's a recipe for disaster.

Funny that in the two championship meetings
It was goalkeeper errors that was the difference.

Poor_old_gill

So to summarise this thread:

Blah, blah, blah, soft All Ireland.
Blah, blah, blah, I'm from my Mayo and I'm extremely angry as we failed to win again and dont want to blame our tactical shortcomings in leaving a dominating full forward unchecked for a whole match and will instead wallow in self-pity.

Nice.

realweirdo

Poor_old_gill wrote: »

So to summarise this thread:

Blah, blah, blah, soft All Ireland.
Blah, blah, blah, I'm from my Mayo and I'm extremely angry as we failed to win again and dont want to blame our tactical shortcomings in leaving a dominating full forward unchecked for a whole match and will instead wallow in self-pity.

Nice.

And to summarise the Kerry view
blah blah we play football the way it should be played...blah blah...perfect footballers....no puke football down here blah blah blah...

While Kerry supporters were celebrating their victory, the rest of the country were reaching for their buckets.

The only positive about this years final was that it will be quickly forgotten by the purists and the neutrals.

Lets all hope Kerry and Donegal don't make the final again next year. I don't think anyone could suffer through that again.

nicepoint

Poor_old_gill wrote: »

So to summarise this thread:

Blah, blah, blah, soft All Ireland.
Blah, blah, blah, I'm from my Mayo and I'm extremely angry as we failed to win again and dont want to blame our tactical shortcomings in leaving a dominating full forward unchecked for a whole match and will instead wallow in self-pity.

Nice.

Very true and I actually think Mayo have gone from alot of lads 2nd team for winning Sam to we'll down the pecking order. I have never heard such a bunch of moaners in my whole life. I hope kilkenny win Sam before them. :-)

realweirdo

nicepoint wrote: »

Very true and I actually think Mayo have gone from alot of lads 2nd team for winning Sam to we'll down the pecking order. I have never heard such a bunch of moaners in my whole life. I hope kilkenny win Sam before them. :-)

This from a county still moaning about 2008 and puke football? Gimme a break! No-one moans like Kerry. If there was an All-Star for moaner of the year Pat Spillane would have eight of them at this stage

Molester Stallone II

realweirdo wrote: »

This from a county still moaning about 2008 and puke football? Gimme a break! No-one moans like Kerry. If there was an All-Star for moaner of the year Pat Spillane would have eight of them at this stage

Your posts would pick up a few and all

ciarriaithuaidh

realweirdo wrote: »

This from a county still moaning about 2008 and puke football? Gimme a break! No-one moans like Kerry. If there was an All-Star for moaner of the year Pat Spillane would have eight of them at this stage

Th only people mentioning "puke football" (the concept, OR the words) are bitter people from Ulster or clowns like you think Pat Spillane=Kerry.

realweirdo

I'm not going to get into a slaggin match with Kerry bucks about moaning. Suffice it to say you can moan with the best of them. I'm sure if I could be ar*ed I'd find a bunch of old threads where Kerry fellas are moaning about this that and the other.

nicepoint

realweirdo wrote: »

This from a county still moaning about 2008 and puke football? Gimme a break! No-one moans like Kerry. If there was an All-Star for moaner of the year Pat Spillane would have eight of them at this stage

It must hurt so bad ;-) best of luck in getting over it.

realweirdo

nicepoint wrote: »

It must hurt so bad ;-) best of luck in getting over it.

The only thing that really hurt about this years championship was my eyes watching that game on Sunday. As someone said it was the least memorable in almost 35 years. Everywhere all over the country people are trying to figure out how to delete it from their SKY+
The blue button usually does the job.

Poor_old_gill

realweirdo wrote: »

And to summarise the Kerry view
blah blah we play football the way it should be played...blah blah...perfect footballers....no puke football down here blah blah blah...

While Kerry supporters were celebrating their victory, the rest of the country were reaching for their buckets.

The only positive about this years final was that it will be quickly forgotten by the purists and the neutrals.

Lets all hope Kerry and Donegal don't make the final again next year. I don't think anyone could suffer through that again.

Explain the concept of puke football?
Its hard to play open attacking football against a team who sit so deep and if you commit too many bodies forward as Dublin did then you get beaten on the break.

Kerry played pragmatic football on Sunday- we attacked when needed and didnt get sucked into going gung-ho.
If they had committed bodies forward then everyone would be calling Fitzmaurice and idiot for learning nothing from the Donegal v Dublin game.

Kerry got ahead and Donegal still sat deep- there was no need to plough forward into their trap and chase the game.

Farmer Pudsey

realweirdo wrote: »

And to summarise the Kerry view
blah blah we play football the way it should be played...blah blah...perfect footballers....no puke football down here blah blah blah...

While Kerry supporters were celebrating their victory, the rest of the country were reaching for their buckets.

The only positive about this years final was that it will be quickly forgotten by the purists and the neutrals.

Lets all hope Kerry and Donegal don't make the final again next year. I don't think anyone could suffer through that again.

realweirdo wrote: »

This from a county still moaning about 2008 and puke football? Gimme a break! No-one moans like Kerry. If there was an All-Star for moaner of the year Pat Spillane would have eight of them at this stage

realweirdo wrote: »

I'm not going to get into a slaggin match with Kerry bucks about moaning. Suffice it to say you can moan with the best of them. I'm sure if I could be ar*ed I'd find a bunch of old threads where Kerry fellas are moaning about this that and the other.

realweirdo wrote: »

The only thing that really hurt about this years championship was my eyes watching that game on Sunday. As someone said it was the least memorable in almost 35 years. Everywhere all over the country people are trying to figure out how to delete it from their SKY+
The blue button usually does the job.

And to summerise blah blah blah, I am an armchair football watcher, I am sour Kery won and have 38 AI's. I am blameing Kerry for having a game plan unlike Dublin. I am moaning about Pat Spillane who had 8 Celtic Crosses and as many All Stars that they are like confetti. I am a purist and a neutral, that is why I hate Kerry

Blah Blah Blah

Give him a bag of sweets or he will cry.

homerjay2005

Mayo have racked up another title this year, most bitter fans in the country.

There was even a few of them around on Sunday and you could smell the bitterness off them.

Kerryfootball

It's not just Kerry that have to deal with Mayo whinging and bitterness.

They still blame Meath for 96, losing the match and the fight.

Eventually they will have to man up and stop making excuses.

Chrissybhoy

Mayo would want to start moaning at each other and ask why do they keep on bottling the chance to win an AI

NIMAN

Anyone know where you get the big 360 degree photo from the AI Final, where each person can locate themselves?

Ceist_Beag

NIMAN wrote: »

Anyone know where you get the big 360 degree photo from the AI Final, where each person can locate themselves?

That would be here

intellectual dosser

Ceist_Beag wrote: »

That would be here

I believe it gets taken 10 minutes into the game, which would explain why I look like I've just licked piss off a nettle.

This thread is probably coming to an expected end looking at the amount of childish petty people Moaning about realweirdo above, he is entitled to discuss the game and give his opinion on it even if you don't like it. Can't imagine what some of you would be like if you had actually lost or had the breaks go against you. You can put posters on ignore if they hurt your sensibilities.

Suffice is to say Fitzmaurice was by far the best manager in the country this year and completely outfoxed McGuinness and Horan. If he was manager of the other three semi finalists they would likely of won the All Ireland instead. In Hindsight he probably had a big part to play in some of Jack O'Connors previous wins also.

Its clear that it is pointless having good players on the pitch if your manager is not up to it. With such a small gap between the top few teams you need the full package to win an All Ireland these days, players, management, luck on the day and the breaks from the referee.

Which means we will be restricted to the same 4 or 5 teams contesting the All Ireland every year. Unless the GAA want the football to turn out like the much smaller Hurling championship the GAA need to start spreading coaching skills and resources to other counties if they want a more encompassing championship.

intellectual dosser

What do I hear when someone preaches about 'Puke Football' ?
"Your team doesn't play like my team, your team should be forced to play like my team"

We've had numerous threads talking about the gulf in ability in the provinces and indeed in the All Ireland series and yet when a team takes initiative to change their approach away from the norm, in order to give themselves a competitive chance, they are condemned like lepers.

Have Donegal been doing something wrong for the past 4 years - have they been breaking the rules? The answer is no, but people argue that its defensive and lacks attacking excitement...heads up...Donegal scored an average of over 18 points per game in this years championship in the build up to the final, including 3-14 against the All Ireland champions and outright favorites.

Kerry were deserved winners on Sunday, none of this is sour grapes in defeat, but if there was one thing that irked me more than others on Sunday it was Jack O'Shea on RTE Radio 1 after the game. He made two points that I believe contradicted each other, paraphrasing:

• These short kick outs are bad for our game, and the GAA must do something about it, for example a minimum distance for the kick to go. The kick out must be contested as it has always been traditionally.
• Aidan O'Mahony did a sterling job on Michael Murphy. He got in his face and allowed him very little.

I watched what Aidan O'Mahony did to Michael Murhpy when the ball was 60 yards up the field. He was in his face, he was trash talking, he was thumping and pulling when the ball was no where close. There was one point after 30-40 seconds of one of these instances where Murphy suddenly turned around and grabbed him by the collar, it was obvious that whatever O'Mahony was saying had stepped over the line.


What O'Mahony did is common across every pitch up and down the country, people get in their opponents head, they push and they pull and make life difficult. Its not a part of the game I'm particularly fond of but I dont dispute that its there....but lets be clear....its not football. The kick out, no matter what way its taken - is football. Yet Jacko wants the latter changed in favour of the famous Kerry fielding, and judging by the minor final, the well in Kerry isn't going dry any time soon.



Puke Football was a term coined by another Kerryman, Pat Spillane, when he didnt like what Tyrone were offering against Kerry 11 years ago in 2003. As a nation we seem to love hating what Pat Spillane says, yet we've endorsed his phrase and a game wont go by without some mention of it - my own mother knows what it means.



Puke football is a myth, Donegal aren't doing anything wrong, they're just not playing the way Pat Spillane would like to see them play. They're not playing in a fashion that Kerry can comfortably handle any given Sunday, they're not playing the way he was brought up playing - but things change.


Rule changes should never be considered. If we want to define Puke and define Pure and enforce rules so that we only have Pure, we could all save ourselves a lot of time. Because the game would become so limited its boring, the parameters for evolution would be so tight they wouldn't exist. We could have a computer run a model and tell us who to give Sam to for the next 10 years.


Donegal lost playing their own style on Sunday, and for every action there's a reaction. Allow our games to evolve naturally, its what's meant to happen. Does anybody think that if a Kerryman from 20 years ago was brought to 2014 he wouldnt be upset with the number of handpasses his team makes? It all natural evolution, we only ever notice the extremes.



So, 'purists', in the morning if you got your way - good luck to you. You can watch 50 yard kicks being contested 50/50, tremendous fielding, and the excitement of the breaking ball, but please be prepared for Dublin and Kerry exchanging the Sam Maguire for the next 50 years, your county wont have a hope.

robbiezero

Short kick out is probably essential in my view. Without it there would be even more of a blanket defence. Forces a defensive team to decide whether to commit men to cover the short kick out or give the opponent easy possession.

Nidgeweasel

Deleted User wrote: »

This thread is probably coming to an expected end looking at the amount of childish petty people Moaning about realweirdo above, he is entitled to discuss the game and give his opinion on it even if you don't like it. You can put posters on ignore if they hurt your sensibilities.

Suffice is to say Fitzmaurice was by far the best manager in the country this year and completely outfoxed McGuinness and Horan. If he was manager of the other three semi finalists they would likely of won the All Ireland instead. In Hindsight he probably had a big part to play in some of Jack O'Connors previous wins also.

Its clear that it is pointless having good players on the pitch if your manager is not up to it. With such a small gap between the top few teams you need the full package to win an All Ireland these days, players, management, luck on the day and the breaks from the referee.

Which means we will be restricted to the same 4 or 5 teams contesting the All Ireland every year. Unless the GAA want the football to turn out like the much smaller Hurling championship the GAA need to start spreading coaching skills and resources to other counties if they want a more encompassing championship.

In what way did he outfox McGuinness? The players said in the immediate aftermath that Kerry set up was exactly what they had planned for. Everyman and his dog knew Kerry would have to play like that and having Donaghy lumped in on the edge of the square would be a major disruption.

Geaney inside early was cute but got lucky with a deflected shot.

robbiezero

Nidgeweasel wrote: »

In what way did he outfox McGuinness? The players said in the immediate aftermath that Kerry set up was exactly what they had planned for. Everyman and his dog knew Kerry would have to play like that and having Donaghy lumped in on the edge of the square would be a major disruption.

Geaney inside early was cute but got lucky with a deflected shot.

Ya I agree here. I wouldn't be giving Fitzmaurice too much credit for his tactics on Sunday or that he outfoxed McGuinness.
If you got a guy in off the street that had never seen football before and showed him the video of Cork v Donegal 2012 and Dublin v Donegal 2014 and asked him how he would set up the Kerry team, he would do very similar to Fitzmaurice.
Obviously Fitzmaurice deserves huge credit for the All-Ireland win and the teams performance in the championship all year.

Nidgeweasel

Nidgeweasel wrote: »

In what way did he outfox McGuinness? The players said in the immediate aftermath that Kerry set up was exactly what they had planned for. Everyman and his dog knew Kerry would have to play like that and having Donaghy lumped in on the edge of the square would be a major disruption.

Geaney inside early was cute but got lucky with a deflected shot.

Kerry played defensively this year but Dublin didn't do it and Mayo didn't the year before against Donegal. So not every manager knew how to do it, its not the way football should be going but it got the win. If Dublin had copied Kerrys new style of Football they would of Beat Donegal.

Kerry gave up on football style and there supporters are happy with the win. Unfortunately you will therefore see more of it next year from more teams maybe even from Dublin and Mayo.

Dixon1983

Nidgeweasel wrote: »

In what way did he outfox McGuinness? The players said in the immediate aftermath that Kerry set up was exactly what they had planned for. Everyman and his dog knew Kerry would have to play like that and having Donaghy lumped in on the edge of the square would be a major disruption.

Geaney inside early was cute but got lucky with a deflected shot.

Donegals biggest problem was their refusal to kick the ball forward. The only time they kick it long was murphy into mc brearty and he scored. See this hand passing is ok but if you get turned over you lose 2/3 men quickly where as a direct football is normally 1 on 1. Can't believe all the credit mcguinness is getting for directing robots to play basketball . He would be better off to let players like murphy do what their good at. Win ball and kick it over the bar. These scientific kick outs show a lack of fielding ability which was shown up when papa lost the plot after his mistake and started launching them. Mcguinness lost that game with his over elaboration of something so simple. He has taken the game to a level where the ball doesn't need to be kicked and if some ppl are interested in watching that ****e fair enough I'm not. Ain't no kerry fan but their win was a victory for football yes kicking football.

homerjay2005

robbiezero wrote: »

Ya I agree here. I wouldn't be giving Fitzmaurice too much credit for his tactics on Sunday or that he outfoxed McGuinness.

lol, it was a tactical masterclass. the system couldnt be beaten apparently, we were odds on to be beaten. donegal hammered the supposed best team ever

lets look at what kerry pulled -

dragged out the two full backs for the first attack of the game - bang...goal.
played o donoghue in a 1/4 back roll - sacrificed his game to throw Donegal off the scent. O donoghue touched the ball more than any other player on the pitch.

isolated geaney on Donegal last defender and constantly took the Mcgees out of that Zone.

cleaned Donegal at midfield, completely.

completely marked Mchugh out of the game, Murphy not far behind him.

Kerry didnt follow the Donegal forwards dropping back, just left Crowley and Young sit in their proper position and meet the runners coming through.

as Tomas would say, Kerry hammered the hammer.

robbiezero

homerjay2005 wrote: »

lol, it was a tactical masterclass. the system couldnt be beaten apparently, we were odds on to be beaten. donegal hammered the supposed best team ever

lets look at what kerry pulled -

dragged out the two full backs for the first attack of the game - bang...goal.

Came from a deflection so was hardly intended.

played o donoghue in a 1/4 back roll - sacrificed his game to throw Donegal off the scent. O donoghue touched the ball more than any other player on the pitch.

Played inside for a good while before coming out as he was at nothing on the inside line. Again it would have been obvious in the lead up to the match the non-Donaghy types in the full forward line are at nothing v Donegal.

isolated geaney on Donegal last defender and constantly took the Mcgees out of that Zone.

Didn't work other than the lucky break for the goal. Geaney wasn't in the game much and was finally taken off.

cleaned Donegal at midfield, completely.

Yep.

completely marked Mchugh out of the game, Murphy not far behind him.

Again yes.

Kerry didnt follow the Donegal forwards dropping back, just left Crowley and Young sit in their proper position and meet the runners coming through.

As I said anyone who watched Cork V Donegal 2012 and Dublin v Donegal 2014 would have done this. An obvious and very sensible tactic.

as Tomas would say, Kerry hammered the hammer.

Kerry set up very well on Donegal, don't get me wrong, but a lot of it was fairly obvious stuff and similar enough to what Armagh did and obviously took note of what happened to Cork (2012) and Dublin.

Nidgeweasel

Deleted User wrote: »

Kerry played defensively this year but Dublin didn't do it and Mayo didn't the year before against Donegal. So not every manager knew how to do it, its not the way football should be going but it got the win. If Dublin had copied Kerrys new style of Football they would of Beat Donegal.

Kerry gave up on football style and there supporters are happy with the win. Unfortunately you will therefore see more of it next year from more teams maybe even from Dublin and Mayo.

Monaghan did, Armagh did. And everyone since has lamented the space in behind the Dublin 45.

keane2097

robbiezero wrote: »

Came from a deflection so was hardly intended.

Played inside for a good while before coming out as he was at nothing on the inside line. Again it would have been obvious in the lead up to the match the non-Donaghy types in the full forward line are at nothing v Donegal.

Didn't work other than the lucky break for the goal. Geaney wasn't in the game much and was finally taken off.

As I said anyone who watched Cork V Donegal 2012 and Dublin v Donegal 2014 would have done this. An obvious and very sensible tactic.

Kerry set up very well on Donegal, don't get me wrong, but a lot of it was fairly obvious stuff and similar enough to what Armagh did and obviously took note of what happened to Cork (2012) and Dublin.

Watched the game back again last night and would have to disagree with most of your assessment.

Firstly, Geaney isolating McGrath was clearly planned regardless of the fact that O'Brien decided to take on a shot rather than play it in. It was no accident that there were no other outfield players nearby when the ball was kicked despite the element of luck in where it finished up.

To say they had no more joy from it is pretty far wide of the mark. Buckley had a shot come back off the post a couple of minutes later which Geaney got above McGrath to palm down to Donaghy for an easy point.

Kerry's next score was from an O'Donoghue high ball in that Geaney easily took over McGrath's head and should have buried.

In the second half Geaney beat McGrath again to the clean up of another high ball and should have done a lot better with what was at least half a goal chance than the pull he took which ended wide.

In some of the above instances it might have been McGlynn who McGuinness switched on Geaney for stretches because Geaney was giving McGrath such problems.

You're also incorrect about O'Donoghue spending most of his time inside. Obviously he was outside all the second half but even from early on in the first half it was clear he was spending little time in the inside line. His game was largely hard running to either wing out closer to the 45 where he was receiving the ball and looking to play it into the space inside, which is largely why Geaney had so much joy.

Two of his biggest contributions in the first half were the ball into Geaney which should have ended in a goal, and another lovely ball into Donaghy which was fielded and for which he might have had a penalty. Both of those were from out on the right wing and are indicative of the role he played from the off.

Lastly, on the notion that all this was super simple stuff, it shouldn't escape notice that All Ireland winning managers like Jack O'Connor, Conor Counihan, Mickey Harte and Jim Gavin all failed to put anything resembling it into effect (even when you would have thought it would be almost default setting for Harte).

It's fair to say that most people were saying the way to beat Donegal was to not overcommit in attack after the All Ireland semi-final, but the fact that something is obvious doesn't make it simple.

DoctaDee

I really can't fathom why people keep referring to the SF defeat of Dublin as the definitive way to beat them, that there was some stroke of genius in the fact that Dublin refused to defend properly with only 3 men behind the ball . The Dublin performance was as near in reality to their normal game as Donegal's defeat to Mayo last year was to theirs.

There's been a huge amount of creeping determinism in the aftermath of that game

Rookster

Nidgeweasel wrote: »

In what way did he outfox McGuinness? The players said in the immediate aftermath that Kerry set up was exactly what they had planned for. Everyman and his dog knew Kerry would have to play like that and having Donaghy lumped in on the edge of the square would be a major disruption.

Geaney inside early was cute but got lucky with a deflected shot.

But Brolly and 99% of pundits said that the system could not be beaten. Never mind luck and all that rubbish. Brolly was laughing at people who suggested that Kerry might have a glimmer of a chance before the game.
Fitzmaurice beat the system and made Donegal look foolish in the process.

Ceist_Beag

Rookster wrote: »

But Brolly and 99% of pundits said that the system could not be beaten. Never mind luck and all that rubbish. Brolly was laughing at people who suggested that Kerry might have a glimmer of a chance before the game.
Fitzmaurice beat the system and made Donegal look foolish in the process.

Absolute rubbish. Brolly and Brolly alone was saying the system could not be beaten. Most pundits last week predicted a Kerry win as most felt Donegal would not reach the performance level of their semi final.
Brolly is as blinkered in favour of Donegal as Spillane is against them. Donegal did not look foolish - one mistake was the difference between the sides on Sunday so lets not kid ourselves into thinking one team was superb and one was completely caught out. As Fitzmaurice himself said many times, lots of games these days are decided on very fine margins and this was certainly one of them. Kerry were the better team on the day, no doubt, but not by much and certainly nowhere near by as much as many on here are suggesting.

realweirdo

Rookster wrote: »

But Brolly and 99% of pundits said that the system could not be beaten. Never mind luck and all that rubbish. Brolly was laughing at people who suggested that Kerry might have a glimmer of a chance before the game.
Fitzmaurice beat the system and made Donegal look foolish in the process.

FFS...Kerry just mirrored the system. Get men behind the ball when they didn't have it, defend en masse and attack with numbers. It was almost a mirror image of the Donegal system.

In other words the system wasn't beaten.

The system triumphed. And from now on every minor, junior, u21, and senior team the length and breadth of the country will be mimicking it.

System 1 - Traditional Football 0

Nidgeweasel

Rookster wrote: »

But Brolly and 99% of pundits said that the system could not be beaten. Never mind luck and all that rubbish. Brolly was laughing at people who suggested that Kerry might have a glimmer of a chance before the game.
Fitzmaurice beat the system and made Donegal look foolish in the process.

Brolly was at a function last week and said the way to beat Donegal is to mirror them (as most on here have always said, as Monaghan and Armagh have shown.) and the way to set up would be like Armagh did. Brolly's concern was that two weeks wouldn't be enough for Kerry to get to grips with that. Which is a fair enough stance.

Of course the system can be beaten. Nothing is unbeatable. It just takes a certain style, hoping Donegal have somewhat of an off day or both. What the system gives you is playing the percentages. If Donegal had have played in top form and went man to man 15 v 15 against Kerry they'd have been beaten imo. If Donegal had have found an extra 5/10% of a performance last Sunday despite playing playing poorly in that system they'd have won. That's the be all and end all for me.

None of that matters though. Kerry played better on the day and deserved to win.

realweirdo

DoctaDee wrote: »

I really can't fathom why people keep referring to the SF defeat of Dublin as the definitive way to beat them, that there was some stroke of genius in the fact that Dublin refused to defend properly with only 3 men behind the ball . The Dublin performance was as near in reality to their normal game as Donegal's defeat to Mayo last year was to theirs.

There's been a huge amount of creeping determinism in the aftermath of that game

Dublin didn't need to go ultra defensive or mimick the Donegal style for example.
They just needed their defenders to stay in place and not go forward at every opportunity looking for glory.

Rookster

Ceist_Beag wrote: »

Absolute rubbish. Brolly and Brolly alone was saying the system could not be beaten. Most pundits last week predicted a Kerry win as most felt Donegal would not reach the performance level of their semi final.
Brolly is as blinkered in favour of Donegal as Spillane is against them. Donegal did not look foolish - one mistake was the difference between the sides on Sunday so lets not kid ourselves into thinking one team was superb and one was completely caught out. As Fitzmaurice himself said many times, lots of games these days are decided on very fine margins and this was certainly one of them. Kerry were the better team on the day, no doubt, but not by much and certainly nowhere near by as much as many on here are suggesting.

It might have only been three points in the end but Kerry were by far the better team. They were more up for it in their physicality, urgency, alertness and ruthlessness. Kerry missed a lot more kickable scores than Donegal on the day and really deserved top be out of sight at the end. I disagree also about most pundits predicting a Kerry win. Look back at the coverage and the weekend papers. I cannot name anybody that went for a Kerry victory. Whatever people think of Spillane (and I think he goes on too much at times) his interview at pitch side predicting a Kerry win were spot on. There was no way Kerry were leaving Croke Park this year without Sam. This is a different Kerry and has no soft centre.

DDC1990

realweirdo wrote: »

Dublin didn't need to go ultra defensive or mimick the Donegal style for example.
They just needed their defenders to stay in place and not go forward at every opportunity looking for glory.

Which is exactly what Kerry did!

They didn't have 15 men behind the ball at any stage, not even when Donegal were charging forward at the end.

They played 2 sweepers in the half back line, Crowley and Killian Young (who are half backs).

Their half forwards, Walsh, O'Brien and Buckley just tracked the runners through the middle and made sure no man got free, and the rest of the backs played man to man, as did the midfielders.

I don't see why this is suddenly playing Donegal's system? Kerry have been playing something similar for most of the year as far as I'm concerned, it just looked different, because Donegal play less forwards.

Obviously Kerry were fluid with their defensive tactics, and at times, the sweepers changed so Marc/Killian/Aidan could go scampering up the field to help with the attack.

But never did we see, Kerry turn their backs on the ball and rush back en-masse (Donegal's "System")

p.s I'm not arguing that it was pretty (because It wasn't) just that its not a mirror of Donegal's system. I made a similar post when someone suggested before the final that Kerry and Donegal played the same system. Its quite lazy to suggest that all tight defences are the same.

keane2097

DDC1990 wrote: »

Which is exactly what Kerry did!

They didn't have 15 men behind the ball at any stage, not even when Donegal were charging forward at the end.

They played 2 sweepers in the half back line, Crowley and Killian Young (who are half backs).

Their half forwards, Walsh, O'Brien and Buckley just tracked the runners through the middle and made sure no man got free, and the rest of the backs played man to man, as did the midfielders.

I don't see why this is suddenly playing Donegal's system? Kerry have been playing something similar for most of the year as far as I'm concerned, it just looked different, because Donegal play less forwards.

Obviously Kerry were fluid with their defensive tactics, and at times, the sweepers changed so Marc/Killian/Aidan could go scampering up the field to help with the attack.

But never did we see, Kerry turn their backs on the ball and rush back en-masse (Donegal's "System")

p.s I'm not arguing that it was pretty (because It wasn't) just that its not a mirror of Donegal's system. I made a similar post when someone suggested before the final that Kerry and Donegal played the same system. Its quite lazy to suggest that all tight defences are the same.

Spot on.

Ceist_Beag

Rookster wrote: »

I disagree also about most pundits predicting a Kerry win. Look back at the coverage and the weekend papers. I cannot name anybody that went for a Kerry victory.

RTE.ie
5 Pundits: Kevin McStay, John Evans, Dermot Earley all picked Kerry, Eamon O'Hara and Sean Boylan tipped Donegal

Second Captains @Irish Times
2 Pundits: Oisin McConville and Anthony Moyles both tipped Kerry as did their own Ciaran Murphy

Off The Ball
9 Pundits: Mossy Quinn, Podge Collins Liam McHale, Liam Rushe, Sean Cavanagh, Alan Dillon, Anthony Moyles, Conor Deegan & Barry O'Shea - 5 went for Donegal, 4 for Kerry.

So in total out of these 16 pundits you had 9 tip Kerry and 7 tip Donegal - kinda blows a large hole in your 99% claim!

As for Spillane, his comments on the Sunday Game that night were disrespectful and typical of the man but fair play to McHugh for biting his tongue and not reacting.

homerjay2005

Ceist_Beag wrote: »

but not by much and certainly nowhere near by as much as many on here are suggesting.

if kerry took even another 25% of their chances, it would have been game over with 15 minutes to go - Kerry took only 25% of their chances compared to 44% from Donegal.

kerry created, but wasted a huge amount - 20 shots missed in the scoring zone, compared to 11 from Donegal. on top of this, Kerry lost possession in scoring positions another 9 times, compared to 6 from Donegal.

kerry had 60% possession in the second half.

there are reasons everybody is saying kerry were the better team, because they dominated the game and did most of the creative force in the game.

Ceist_Beag

Why do you think Kerry missed those chances eh? Not because of the pressure being applied maybe? Credit to Kerry for being the better team but how about a little bit of credit to Donegal for having some part to play in those misses!

Also Donegal often have less possession than the opposition, it's the way we play. You can pull all the stats out that you like but the simple facts are, a mistake by our keeper ended up being the difference on the scoreboard. That goal changed everything.

Rookster

Ceist_Beag wrote: »

RTE.ie
5 Pundits: Kevin McStay, John Evans, Dermot Earley all picked Kerry, Eamon O'Hara and Sean Boylan tipped Donegal

Second Captains @Irish Times
2 Pundits: Oisin McConville and Anthony Moyles both tipped Kerry as did their own Ciaran Murphy

Off The Ball
9 Pundits: Mossy Quinn, Podge Collins Liam McHale, Liam Rushe, Sean Cavanagh, Alan Dillon, Anthony Moyles, Conor Deegan & Barry O'Shea - 5 went for Donegal, 4 for Kerry.

So in total out of these 16 pundits you had 9 tip Kerry and 7 tip Donegal - kinda blows a large hole in your 99% claim!

As for Spillane, his comments on the Sunday Game that night were disrespectful and typical of the man but fair play to McHugh for biting his tongue and not reacting.

The pundits who went for Kerry were either from there or had have ties with the county.(podge collins is half kerry and would be killed if he went for Donegal).
The Spillane interview I was talking about is the one pitch side before the game and not on the highlights programme. And I agree he is disrespectful at times to other counties.

DDC1990

Ceist_Beag wrote: »

Why do you think Kerry missed those chances eh? Not because of the pressure being applied maybe? Credit to Kerry for being the better team but how about a little bit of credit to Donegal for having some part to play in those misses!

Also Donegal often have less possession than the opposition, it's the way we play. You can pull all the stats out that you like but the simple facts are, a mistake by our keeper ended up being the difference on the scoreboard. That goal changed everything.

Absolutely agree with you here.

Kerry's tactics were to shoot and see what sticks.

Donegal's pressure made it difficult for Kerry to get composed on the ball to take those shots.

Kerry were very clever in attack in the way they used O'Donaghue. Several times, O'Donaghue ran into the middle and drew 4/5 Donegal players in on top of him looking to surround him. Instead he turned right around and would pop the ball to Buckley usually, but sometimes Moran or Maher, who would quickly put the ball out to the wing to Geaney/Walsh to have a shot. But with that extra pass back to Buckley, Donegal had time to get across at Geaney/Walsh and put them under pressure.

Which is why Paul Murphy's point was glorious. It was so composed, under serious pressure, in his first AIF. Magic score.

Nidgeweasel

DDC1990 wrote: »

Which is why Paul Murphy's point was glorious. It was so composed, under serious pressure, in his first AIF. Magic score.

Yep. The bastard!

This thread is danger of going around in circles and descending (further) into bitterness and sniping.

Kerry were set up well, had a great intensity and hunger to win and caused Donegal problems. Several of there big players needed to play well and they did. Donegal themselves by comparison were flat and couldn't raise a performance level which was good enough to win the match. Several of their big players had off days and others couldn't get into the game due to good marking or whatever, McHugh and Jigger struggled physically. They played quite well defensively at times in the first half but offensively were lethargic and didn't ask enough of Kerry. When they did they looked dangerous. Could have stolen a draw at the end but it would have been scarcely deserved.

That's the fairest summary I think on both counts.

keane2097

Murphy's point was clearly a slightly mis-hit ball into Donaghy!

Ceist_Beag

Rookster wrote: »

The pundits who went for Kerry were either from there or had have ties with the county.(podge collins is half kerry and would be killed if he went for Donegal).

Ah here, you'd want to stop digging at this stage! Oisin McConville and Anthony Moyles are either from or have ties with Kerry? Kevin McStay, Dermot Earley likewise? Sean Cavanagh same? I think it's time to move on from this point!

sammy37

Ceist_Beag wrote: »

Absolute rubbish. Brolly and Brolly alone was saying the system could not be beaten. Most pundits last week predicted a Kerry win as most felt Donegal would not reach the performance level of their semi final.
Brolly is as blinkered in favour of Donegal as Spillane is against them. Donegal did not look foolish - one mistake was the difference between the sides on Sunday so lets not kid ourselves into thinking one team was superb and one was completely caught out. As Fitzmaurice himself said many times, lots of games these days are decided on very fine margins and this was certainly one of them. Kerry were the better team on the day, no doubt, but not by much and certainly nowhere near by as much as many on here are suggesting.

Your wrong there about brolly and brolly only as liam hayes said this donegal team is the most expertly oiled machine any of us have Ever seen which is a ridiculous thing to say as its only one all ireland in four years and considering mayo hammered them last year and if dublin had not been so naive this year would have beaten them too. Dont get me wrong this a good Donegal team with a great manager but the media went overboard about them.

Rookster

Ceist_Beag wrote: »

Ah here, you'd want to stop digging at this stage! Oisin McConville and Anthony Moyles are either from or have ties with Kerry? Kevin McStay, Dermot Earley likewise? Sean Cavanagh same? I think it's time to move on from this point!

But why would you count a pundit from a competing county? Makes no sense.

DDC1990

keane2097 wrote: »

Murphy's point was clearly a slightly mis-hit ball into Donaghy!

I was right behind it, he pinged it with the outside of the boot.

Absolutely no doubt in my mind that meant it.

Unless he's said any different.

I knew the O'Brien one was a blocked shot, even as it happened, because his hand went up looking for a 45... until Geaney stuck it in the net, but I'd fight you over Murphy's one. :P

Nidgeweasel

DDC1990 wrote: »

I was right behind it, he pinged it with the outside of the boot.

Absolutely no doubt in my mind that meant it.

Unless he's said any different.

I knew the O'Brien one was a blocked shot, even as it happened, because his hand went up looking for a 45... until Geaney stuck it in the net, but I'd fight you over Murphy's one. :P

I think it was tounge in cheek towards the 'assist' for Geaney's goal!