Football All Stars 2014

Alvin Holler

Boom__Boom wrote: »

anyone know the lowest number of All-Stars a winning All-Ireland team has picked up ?

pretty sure it was cork in 2010 with 4.

Boom__Boom

GBXI wrote: »

I'd agree with you there, I don't particularly rate the Kerry keeper at all, but look at the bookies odds, Hennelly isn't even priced!! Don't ask me how!

Hennelly conceded 23 goals in 14 games this year,
Kelly has conceded 9 in 10 games {prior to the 2 Mayo games Kelly had conceded 5 in 8 games}

Durkan has conceded 10 goals in 13 games

Mr. Incognito

1/500 before a ball kicked in the final

Wow

Boom__Boom

Mr. Incognito wrote: »

1/500 before a ball kicked in the final

Wow

You wonder just how bad he'd have to perform not to pick up an All-Star.

Alvin Holler

Boom__Boom wrote: »

Hennelly conceded 23 goals in 14 games this year,
Kelly has conceded 9 in 10 games {prior to the 2 Mayo games Kelly had conceded 5 in 8 games}

Durkan has conceded 10 goals in 13 games

3 of those goals were conceded against louth after we were about 12 points up after half an hour. If we hadn't switched off in that game it would be a pretty impressive record from Durcan.

BonnieSituation

He kept Dublin goalless too. His defence helped but he was there when it mattered.

Boom__Boom

Alvin Holler wrote: »

3 of those goals were conceded against louth after we were about 12 points up after half an hour. If we hadn't switched off in that game it would be a pretty impressive record from Durcan.

Yeah I can understand why he's favourite especially after the weekend. Kelly's horror under the high ball, Cluxton conceding 3, and being below par in terms of kickoutd & deadballs, plus Hennelley's overall number of goals conceded.

As against that he was surely helped by Donegal being in Division 2 in the league - when you look at the overall difference in the level of quality of attacks he faced.

Also helped by all the decent Donegal defenders and the emphasis Donegal have on not conceding goals.

Only danger is Kerry bagging 2/3/4/ goals in the final and Kelly having a shutout and making some highlight reel saves.

BonnieSituation

Isn't much of a danger of that now in fairness

Boom__Boom

BonnieSituation wrote: »

Isn't much of a danger of that now in fairness

Oh yeah totally agree - Kerry will get the 4 goals handy enough but Donegal won't have enough of the ball to even get a shot on goal for Kelly to save, never mind the 2 or 3 efforts necessary for Kelly to pull off enough spectacular saves to overtake Durkan :D:D:D:D :p:p

Bahanaman

No mention of McNeilis in the centre of the field??!!

Nidgeweasel

Boom__Boom wrote: »

You wonder just how bad he'd have to perform not to pick up an All-Star.

He's have to **** into the Sam in the hogan stand not to get one.

BonnieSituation

Nidgeweasel wrote: »

He's have to **** into the Sam in the hogan stand not to get one.

or **** as well.

Boom__Boom

Bahanaman wrote: »

No mention of McNeilis in the centre of the field??!!

In the half forward category 8/13

harpsman

I see they have 5 players long odds on in the half forward line-thx paddy you c****. Does seem a bit unbalanced in favour of Donegal and against Kerry, having said that after the last 3 games its hard to make an argument in favour of any Kerry defenders-i thought Crowleys attempt at a tackle for the Mayo penalty in first game was awful.

Aidan O Shea got a dubious one last year, cant see him getting one this year.

I think if they both play half decent Donaghy and Murphy will both be included, probably deservedly, with Murphy at centre forward.

feargale

keane2097 wrote: »

Those all seem like reaches to be honest, wouldn't view it askance if the all stars all came from the SF teams.

The 15 best footballers in the country come from four counties? Huh?

FatRat

Ed Winchester wrote: »

I might be a bit biased, but i think Paul Flynn is POTY so far. He's been simply incredible every time he's walked on to the pitch this year.

Ah jesus come on.... It's incredible how poor his opponents were too up until they met Donegal - the one game that he wasn't incredible. I wonder why? Great player, will probably pick up an all star but to say JOD or a Donegal player (who performs well in the final) won't trump him is very very biased indeed!

It's an odd one that Kerry probably won't get more than 2 all-stars. I mean they are AI finalists? The scrapiness of the two games against Mayo is perhaps the reason for that. Very few stood out as great players in those games, even though many of the players are. Donegal's comprehensive win over an 'unbeatable' Dublin is probably why many of them are shoe-ins also. They all looked good in that game. BTW I wouldn't be so sure COC is completely nailed on after his late red card the last day. Very unsporting and frowned upon and what not. Also for player so talked up, he really doesn't score much from play.

SeanJ09

harpsman wrote: »

I see they have 5 players long odds on in the half forward line-thx paddy you c****. Does seem a bit unbalanced in favour of Donegal and against Kerry, having said that after the last 3 games its hard to make an argument in favour of any Kerry defenders-i thought Crowleys attempt at a tackle for the Mayo penalty in first game was awful.

Aidan O Shea got a dubious one last year, cant see him getting one this year.

I think if they both play half decent Donaghy and Murphy will both be included, probably deservedly, with Murphy at centre forward.

O'Shea was phenomenal in the Cork game and Kerry games. Deserves one at number 11 IMO.

BonnieSituation

FatRat wrote: »

Ah jesus come on.... It's incredible how poor his opponents were too up until they met Donegal - the one game that he wasn't incredible. I wonder why? Great player, will probably pick up an all star but to say JOD or a Donegal player (who performs well in the final) won't trump him is very very biased indeed!

It's an odd one that Kerry probably won't get more than 2 all-stars. I mean they are AI finalists? The scrapiness of the two games against Mayo is perhaps the reason for that. Very few stood out as great players in those games, even though many of the players are. Donegal's comprehensive win over an 'unbeatable' Dublin is probably why many of them are shoe-ins also. They all looked good in that game. BTW I wouldn't be so sure COC is completely nailed on after his late red card the last day. Very unsporting and frowned upon and what not. Also for player so talked up, he really doesn't score much from play.

You have to be joking if you thought Paul Flynn didn't "look good" on Sunday?

And what of JOD's opponents... Clare? A piss-poor Cork team? Galway?

You're having a laugh with that post.

Boom__Boom

BonnieSituation wrote: »

And what of JOD's opponents... Clare? A piss-poor Cork team? Galway?

You're having a laugh with that post.

JOD didnt play against Clare - was injured and a doubt for the Cork game.

Won't disagree with your assessment of Cork but it was still a spectacular performance.

Galway were decent without being world-beaters.

Also worth remembering that JOD scored 3-9 in the 2 Mayo games (admittedly 2-2 from deadballs) while being marked by Higgins who according to those bookies odd is rated as the best defender in the country this year.

JOD has scored 4-24 (36 pts) in 4 championship games so far - 2-20 from play; 2-4 from deadballs.

He also scored 5-24 in 7 league games with 5-16 of it coming from play and 0-8 from deadballs.

Overall this year he has scored 9-48 (75 pts) in 11 games with 2-12 (18) from deadballs and 7-36(57) from play.

Not too shabby.

Dirty Dingus McGee

Dessie Mone will probably get an all star this year.

McNiallis should win the young footballer of the year award although I have a feeling Ryan McHugh will probably win it now.

ciarriaithuaidh

feargale wrote: »

The 15 best footballers in the country come from four counties? Huh?

In case you don't get the All stars concept, it I'd the best 15 players IN THAT PARTICULAR SEASON..Not the best 15 players in the country..and yes, if all the 15 happen to be from 4 semi finalists, so be it. 2005 team comprised only Tyrone, Kerry and Armagh players and wasn't far wrong for example.

ciarriaithuaidh

SeanJ09 wrote: »

O'Shea was phenomenal in the Cork game and Kerry games. Deserves one at number 11 IMO.

He was useless last Saturday. Even before he picked up the injury, he had touched the ball twice only I think.

CurryFlavoured

He won't get one but I'd love James Mc to win an all star. He's been fantastic for us this season and I thought he was one of our better performers outside Connolly and Flynn at the weekend (not that that's saying much). He's unlucky that the standard of half backs in very high right now.

keane2097

feargale wrote: »

The 15 best footballers in the country come from four counties? Huh?

I don't think Gooch will get an All Star for example if that gives a hint as to where you're missing the point.

GBXI

ciarriaithuaidh wrote: »

He was useless last Saturday. Even before he picked up the injury, he had touched the ball twice only I think.

He wasn't so useless in plucking a ball out of the sky and setting up Mayo's second goal before being shamefully taken out of the game by the luckiest player in the country.

Redsoxfan

Dirty Dingus McGee wrote: »

McNiallis should win the young footballer of the year award although I have a feeling Ryan McHugh will probably win it now.

MacNiallais doesn't qualify for young player of the year.

GBXI

FatRat wrote: »

Ah jesus come on.... It's incredible how poor his opponents were too up until they met Donegal - the one game that he wasn't incredible. I wonder why? Great player, will probably pick up an all star but to say JOD or a Donegal player (who performs well in the final) won't trump him is very very biased indeed!

It's an odd one that Kerry probably won't get more than 2 all-stars. I mean they are AI finalists? The scrapiness of the two games against Mayo is perhaps the reason for that. Very few stood out as great players in those games, even though many of the players are. Donegal's comprehensive win over an 'unbeatable' Dublin is probably why many of them are shoe-ins also. They all looked good in that game. BTW I wouldn't be so sure COC is completely nailed on after his late red card the last day. Very unsporting and frowned upon and what not. Also for player so talked up, he really doesn't score much from play.

Also, this is a little off the point but CO'C is talked up for obvious reasons, or it at least it should be obvious if you watch him play. He is second behind JO'D in scores from play this year, but just as important, he is a very intelligent player, brings players into the game very well, and an excellent foot-passer. What he lacks in pace he makes up for with accuracy and guile. A lot like Padraig Joyce when he played.

DoctaDee

feargale wrote: »

The 15 best footballers in the country come from four counties? Huh?

ciarriaithuaidh wrote: »

In case you don't get the All stars concept, it I'd the best 15 players IN THAT PARTICULAR SEASON..Not the best 15 players in the country..and yes, if all the 15 happen to be from 4 semi finalists, so be it. 2005 team comprised only Tyrone, Kerry and Armagh players and wasn't far wrong for example.

Nah .. All Star awards just give a context to bar stool talk around the country - perpetuated by journos and ourselves on here (as can be seen). They're just a snapshot of a trending popularity contest at any moment in time. I'd suggest that prior to the 2 semis last weekend - Dublin & Mayo would've accounted for around 60-70% of the all stars. One match on and you're looking at maybe 25% combined. Reminds me a lot of that xfactor program, where yer nailed on certainty one week becomes yer the man to vote off the next - such is human nature and our need to follow the herd.

GBXI

DoctaDee wrote: »

Nah .. All Star awards just give a context to bar stool talk around the country - perpetuated by journos and ourselves on here (as can be seen). They're just a snapshot of a trending popularity contest at any moment in time. I'd suggest that prior to the 2 semis last weekend - Dublin & Mayo would've accounted for around 60-70% of the all stars. One match on and you're looking at maybe 25% combined. Reminds me a lot of that xfactor program, where yer nailed on certainty one week becomes yer the man to vote off the next - such is human nature and our need to follow the herd.

What you've said is largely untrue. The large change in favoritism at this time of the year is because the knock-out stages are considered more important than the earlier rounds against lesser teams, and rightly so. For example, in Dublin's case, they hammered Division 2 and 3 teams before coming up against someone of their own level and, save for Connolly and Flynn, didn't perform. Mayo are now out and though they performed quite well in all their matches, their potential All Stars can't make any impressions whereas Kerry's and Donegal's potential All Stars can, hence they big change in their prices.

DoctaDee

GBXI wrote: »

What you've said is largely untrue. The large change in favoritism at this time of the year is because the knock-out stages are considered more important than the earlier rounds against lesser teams, and rightly so. For example, in Dublin's case, they hammered Division 2 and 3 teams before coming up against someone of their own level and, save for Connolly and Flynn, didn't perform. Mayo are now out and though they performed quite well in all their matches, their potential All Stars can't make any impressions whereas Kerry's and Donegal's potential All Stars can, hence they big change in their prices.

So you discount a seasons football for the result of one match ? ... either a semi final or final .. be on a winning team in either and that merits an award greater than someone that's performed all year ?... You are right btw, that's exactly the benchmark they use, it's a current opinion which is fresher in the mind - winners are winners in every respect - the losers are just asked to fade away.

They'll put 15 names on a piece of paper and announce them as the best footballers in Ireland, some GAA folk will nod with approval, others like me will read it once and consign it to the rubbish

feargale

keane2097 wrote: »

I don't think Gooch will get an All Star for example if that gives a hint as to where you're missing the point.

No, nor Iggy Jones either, despite having given the best performances seen between 1887 and 2014.

feargale

ciarriaithuaidh wrote: »

In case you don't get the All stars concept,

Oh I get the concept alright. A Leitrim or Carlow footballer could give the three best performances of the year, but because certain journalists, mostly in Dublin, didn't get to Carrick-on-Shannon or Cullen Park to see him, he is a non-runner. If you read Doctadee a post or two back you will get my drift.

GBXI

DoctaDee wrote: »

So you discount a seasons football for the result of one match ? ... either a semi final or final .. be on a winning team in either and that merits an award greater than someone that's performed all year ?... You are right btw, that's exactly the benchmark they use, it's a current opinion which is fresher in the mind - winners are winners in every respect - the losers are just asked to fade away.

They'll put 15 names on a piece of paper and announce them as the best footballers in Ireland, some GAA folk will nod with approval, others like me will read it once and consign it to the rubbish

That's not what I said. You don't discount a season's football, but you weight the performances depending on the importance of the game/standard of opposition. Name your 15 best players so far this season, if the predicted All Stars are such rubbish.

SeanJ09

ciarriaithuaidh wrote: »

He was useless last Saturday. Even before he picked up the injury, he had touched the ball twice only I think.

I'm pretty sure before he picked up the injury, he caught a huge ball and laid it off to O'Connor for a goal (also when Enright tried to take him out of the game). If thats useless.....

DoctaDee

DoctaDee wrote: »

............They'll put 15 names on a piece of paper and announce them as the best footballers in Ireland, some GAA folk will nod with approval, others like me will read it once and consign it to the rubbish

GBXI wrote: »

......... Name your 15 best players so far this season, if the predicted All Stars are such rubbish.

Sorry, just in case you're taking my post out of context - all I was saying is I could care less about who wins this years All Stars. The next few months I'll be concerning myself with the Dublin Club Championships, the battle on the field will outweigh anything played out here or in da papers.

ciarriaithuaidh

feargale wrote: »

Oh I get the concept alright. A Leitrim or Carlow footballer could give the three best performances of the year, but because certain journalists, mostly in Dublin, didn't get to Carrick-on-Shannon or Cullen Park to see him, he is a non-runner. If you read Doctadee a post or two back you will get my drift.

Fair enough, I understand what you're saying...The system is unfair in a way AND all stars are picked by journalists who generally know little more (often less) than the average fan..but when Leitrim were competitive in Connacht in early 90s they were getting nominees for example Mickey Quinn got an award one year and I think Seamus Quinn got an all star in 94 fullback?
If you are good enough, then you'll get noticed I would say. Declan Browne and others have proven that over the years.
The championship only really gets going from 1/4 final on these days, so that probably lessens the likelihood of All stars from weaker counties alright.
I often think there should be something done to reward the excellence of the Niall McNamee's and Emlyn Mulligans of this world but I'm not sure what? Open draw and a chance to play the bigger teams might have benefits but drawbacks also. The Tommy Murphy cup worked for a while but county's lost interest.

J Cheever Loophole

Dirty Dingus McGee wrote: »

Dessie Mone will probably get an all star this year.

Can't see it, although not because he isn't deserving - simply because he didn't feature beyond the quarter-final.

Would add Andy Mallon to that same category - in my humble (and biased) opinion the best corner back in the country - unfortunately, our exploits in Croke Park against Meath and Donegal will by that stage be but a distant memory.

FatRat

BonnieSituation wrote: »

You have to be joking if you thought Paul Flynn didn't "look good" on Sunday?

And what of JOD's opponents... Clare? A piss-poor Cork team? Galway?

You're having a laugh with that post.

I never said he didn't look good. I said he wasn't incredible and you must be having a laugh if you think he was incredible the last day. You simply can't give a player who doesn't perform "very" well in the semi-final and/or final the POTY award, especially when there is competition like JOD and plenty of the Donegal team. Why are you so defensive of Flynn, it's clear as day there are plenty of other who deserve the award ahead of him. That's all I was saying.

harpsman

J Cheever Loophole wrote: »

Can't see it, although not because he isn't deserving - simply because he didn't feature beyond the quarter-final.

Would add Andy Mallon to that same category - in my humble (and biased) opinion the best corner back in the country - unfortunately, our exploits in Croke Park against Meath and Donegal will by that stage be but a distant memory.

Did he mark any good players out of game?-I think the fact that no Armagh games iirc were on RTE-they had quite a low profile championship apart from their antics against Donegal.

harpsman

FatRat wrote: »

I never said he didn't look good. I said he wasn't incredible and you must be having a laugh if you think he was incredible the last day. You simply can't give a player who doesn't perform "very" well in the semi-final and/or final the POTY award, especially when there is competition like JOD and plenty of the Donegal team. Why are you so defensive of Flynn, it's clear as day there are plenty of other who deserve the award ahead of him. That's all I was saying.

In fairness Flynn was very good on sunday but to be honest I thought Connolly was at least as good-his point in the 2nd half with multiple players hangin off him was amazing.
I dont think Flynn deserves POTY-he would have to have a really special year to get it without making final like Bernard Brogan was in 2010. Personally if I was going to give it to any dublin player Id give it to Connolly taking into account his club performances.

Anyway if Kerry win its defo JOD, if Donegal win might depend on who has a good game-dont rule out Neil Gallagher-hes been brilliant in 3 big games in a row.

CurryFlavoured

Connolly was better than Flynn on Sunday but Flynn's been better for Dublin over the season, I'd say that he's been our best player. Best half forward in the Country imo, not as fancy as Connolly but he does everything very well or better.

To say that it's clear that plenty are more deserving is ridiculous FatRat. Name me 3 more deserving.

dxhound2005

DoctaDee wrote: »

Nah .. All Star awards just give a context to bar stool talk around the country - perpetuated by journos and ourselves on here (as can be seen). They're just a snapshot of a trending popularity contest at any moment in time. I'd suggest that prior to the 2 semis last weekend - Dublin & Mayo would've accounted for around 60-70% of the all stars. One match on and you're looking at maybe 25% combined. Reminds me a lot of that xfactor program, where yer nailed on certainty one week becomes yer the man to vote off the next - such is human nature and our need to follow the herd.

You seem to be ignoring the fact that it is the players who choose the winners. I haven't checked but I would assume that an equal number of players from each county have a vote and it is a secret ballot. It is from a shortlist nominated by journalists but I can't see anything wrong with that. When the GPA had their own awards for a few years it didn't result in any more winners from outside the four semi finalists.

Something which I have just learned and may be little known is that the winners get €1500, POTY gets €5000 and players of the month get €1000 (as of 2011, maybe it has changed?).

Boom__Boom

dxhound2005 wrote: »

You seem to be ignoring the fact that it is the players who choose the winners. I haven't checked but I would assume that an equal number of players from each county have a vote and it is a secret ballot. It is from a shortlist nominated by journalists but I can't see anything wrong with that. When the GPA had their own awards for a few years it didn't result in any more winners from outside the four semi finalists

Given it's intercounty players from other counties voting you'd imagine that appearing on television in the later rounds is a huge factor as you'd imagine those are the games are much easier for intercounty players to watch - much less likely to be club matches/training/other events on during the final/semi-finalists. [How many intercounty players make plans for the 3rd Sunday of September - even from the "minnow" counties?]

It would be very interesting to see whether any/many votes for players come from teams they have played against? Are traditional team rivalries a factor? Do lads vote for guys they played Sigerson with? Do lads harbour grudges from previous years/U21/minors (that lad hit me a flake when we were playing minor 8 years ago - no way I'm voting for him).

How much do media influence things - is having a media profile an issue? [wonder if Connolly's off-the-pitch legal issues may harm his chances?]

I wonder how many people don't vote or don't fill it out fully.

Similarly it's no wonder that league form is a complete non-factor as so many league games take place at the same time and the poor coverage on RTE

dxhound2005

Boom__Boom wrote: »

Given it's intercounty players from other counties voting you'd imagine that appearing on television in the later rounds is a huge factor as you'd imagine those are the games are much easier for intercounty players to watch - much less likely to be club matches/training/other events on during the final/semi-finalists. [How many intercounty players make plans for the 3rd Sunday of September - even from the "minnow" counties?]

It would be very interesting to see whether any/many votes for players come from teams they have played against? Are traditional team rivalries a factor? Do lads vote for guys they played Sigerson with? Do lads harbour grudges from previous years/U21/minors (that lad hit me a flake when we were playing minor 8 years ago - no way I'm voting for him).

How much do media influence things - is having a media profile an issue? [wonder if Connolly's off-the-pitch legal issues may harm his chances?]

I wonder how many people don't vote or don't fill it out fully.

Similarly it's no wonder that league form is a complete non-factor as so many league games take place at the same time and the poor coverage on RTE

They only get three to choose from for each position so those factors you mentioned won't come into play for the majority of players. If the system was allow everyone to vote for any player who had played inter county during the season, no doubt players would choose their own teammates and friends.

How those 45 are chosen might not be perfect but I can't think of a better group to do so than the GAA journalists. I think the GPA have an input as well. Other sports e.g. soccer seem to manage to give similar awards, even on a Europe wide basis without the players being able to watch each other live.

Boom__Boom

dxhound2005 wrote: »

They only get three to choose from for each position so those factors you mentioned won't come into play for the majority of players. If the system was allow everyone to vote for any player who had played inter county during the season, no doubt players would choose their own teammates and friends.

How those 45 are chosen might not be perfect but I can't think of a better group to do so than the GAA journalists. I think the GPA have an input as well. Other sports e.g. soccer seem to manage to give similar awards, even on a Europe wide basis without the players being able to watch each other live.

Doh - if I had been thinking straight i would have realised that.

I think that the fact that the 4 teams who won their provincial finals were the 4 teams that got to the semis really makes it very likely that the 15 winners will come from those 4 teams.

Dublin have lost 1 championship match, Mayo lost 1 (after a replay) and Donegal/Kerry will have lost 1 championship match all at the business end of affairs.

Compared to that Cork, Monaghan, Armagh and Galway have all lost 2 games at earlier stages.

On the watching live - its not about watching live versus watching on television - there is a serious difference in the volume of soccer on television compared to the volume of gaa, especially if you are on a team that doesnt get to the semis/finals.

Nidgeweasel

Dirty Dingus McGee wrote: »

Dessie Mone will probably get an all star this year.

McNiallis should win the young footballer of the year award although I have a feeling Ryan McHugh will probably win it now.

I agree with this. McHugh is the easy option and glamour one given who his ould boy is.

J Cheever Loophole

harpsman wrote: »

I think the fact that no Armagh games iirc were on RTE-they had quite a low profile championship apart from their antics against Donegal.

You know, as ridiculous as it might sound, you mightn't be far wrong - we did indeed feature heavily on sky and it would be entirely in keeping with some of the decision making criteria for the All Stars that the judges having paid their sky subscription or not, might indeed be a factor.

harpsman wrote: »

they had quite a low profile championship apart from their antics against Donegal.

Seriously man - let it go - why don't you just enjoy your success rather than being swallowed up by the bitter memories of the noughties?

Redsoxfan

Nidgeweasel wrote: »

I agree with this. McHugh is the easy option and glamour one given who his ould boy is.

MacNiallais doesn't qualify, he's overage.

On the 'easy option' tag, he was one of the favourites along with Costello, McCaffrey and Mannion before Sunday and is now easily the favourite ahead of those three.

You could make the argument for Shane Walsh I'm sure, but McHugh has played consistently well on a winning team throughout the Championship.

I don't really see how he is the 'easy' option - if he wins it, it will be well earned.

robbiezero

GBXI wrote: »

Oh Mayo are near certainties to get two All Stars anyway, Higgins and O'Connor. Decent possibility of a third, as I was saying, in O'Shea. But half forward line will probably be McHugh, Connolly, Flynn. I thought Hennelly had a great year and would be very close but if Donegal win Durkan is a cert to get the no. 1 jersey, and if Kerry win, it'll most likely be the Kerry keeper, that's just the way it goes as you say with finalists. On Shane Walsh, he has been and is the best number 11 in Ireland this year but he hasn't a notion of winning one. Definite nomination though.

Won't win one. Did a lot of his best work against lesser teams. Not so prominent v Mayo and Kerry when most needed. Quite a few half-forwards I would have on a team before him.

robbiezero

DoctaDee wrote: »

So you discount a seasons football for the result of one match ? ... either a semi final or final .. be on a winning team in either and that merits an award greater than someone that's performed all year ?... You are right btw, that's exactly the benchmark they use, it's a current opinion which is fresher in the mind - winners are winners in every respect - the losers are just asked to fade away.

They'll put 15 names on a piece of paper and announce them as the best footballers in Ireland, some GAA folk will nod with approval, others like me will read it once and consign it to the rubbish

At times that can makes sense. There was probably a few Dublin defenders like Cooper and O'Carroll up for awards until last Sunday and are now out of the running and rightly so. If you don't perform on your biggest stage against the best opposition it should count heavily against you.