This is what gets cyclists a bad name

neris

Was coming through Sutton Cross on Sunday morning in the car heading towards the Dart station when these 3 muppets appear in the middle of the road. I know Sutton cross is a mess at the best of times and most cyclists will try get a bit of the junction to be in front of the cars when pulling off but blocking the middle of the road is asking for a Darwin award.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=y5fD94zUPHA

Raam

Numpties.

endacl

Interesting topic, OP. I don't believe its been covered before. I predict reasoned and balanced debate...

Brian?

Raam wrote: »

Numpties.

Interesting I always thought it was numptys.

Timberrrrrrrr

neris wrote: »

Was coming through Sutton Cross on Sunday morning in the car heading towards the Dart station when these 3 muppets appear in the middle of the road. I know Sutton cross is a mess at the best of times and most cyclists will try get a bit of the junction to be in front of the cars when pulling off but blocking the middle of the road is asking for a Darwin award.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=y5fD94zUPHA

You then continue on and break a red light!

Tenzor07

That's an awful junction at every direction for cyclists and drivers!

From the way the light sequence goes is traffic going straight at Sutton X get's the green whereas the right turn remains red for the ped crossing..maybe they got confused and moved forward before stopping and realising there mistake.

Fair play to you for not blasting the horn at them(?) like a lot of cars would do..


There should really be an advance stop box for cyclists there due to the large numbers of cyclists on that very popular route..

Tenzor07

Timberrrrrrrr wrote: »

You then continue on and break a red light!

In all fairness, the driver had proceeded legally through the green, slowed down for the bicyclists, then moved around them, during that time he was in the middle of the road when the light flicked from amber to red...

So what would you have him do, stop dangerously in the middle of a busy junction to face traffic from both sides??
There could also have been a following car behind him which may have meant the junction is now blocked for other traffic.

Chips Lovell

OP had a green light. Cyclists forced him to stop in the junction, when lights turned. He was correct to proceed when the way was clear.

neris

If you at 10 seconds theres a guy in white which is where most cyclists stop. It is a nightmare of a place to be stopped and trying to push off from especially at busy times.

If i didnt go through the red light I would then have been blocking the traffic and the other cyclist in the Howth lane and there were no pedestrians waiting to cross either

Chips Lovell

Tenzor07 wrote: »

That's an awful junction at every direction for cyclists and drivers!

I've never had any problem with this junction.

Chips Lovell

No doubt the clowns out in the junction are the type who proclaim it's "safer" to break the lights and stop out beyond the stop line.

Raam

I have negotiated that junction a billion times at least. Never had a single problem with it.

OldNotWIse

Did the driver break a red at 0:10?

Raam

OldNotWIse wrote: »

Did the driver break a red at 0:10?

No, he was already in the middle of the junction. He has to proceed to clear it.

Germancarfan

OldNotWIse wrote: »

Did the driver break a red at 0:10?

no - he was all ready through the line for the junction so safe to proceed. stopping would have created an obstructon

OldNotWIse

Raam wrote: »

No, he was already in the middle of the junction. He has to proceed to clear it.

Germancarfan wrote: »

no - he was all ready through the line for the junction so safe to proceed. stopping would have created an obstructon

Ah. It's a little confusing the way they have the lights positioned (to me anyway)

iwillhtfu

Cyclists were in the wrong. Unfortunately these kind of gob****es result in most cyclists being tainted with the same brush. At the end of the day nothing is to be gained by knocking down a cyclist it's just a shame so many have no care for their own safety.

The driver didn't break the red light he had to clear the junction or become a hazard himself unnecessarily.

End of debate.

dragratchet

same here, negotiate that junction regularly on the bike without a problem.

was driving back from howth a couple weekends ago and a cyclist infront of me was performing a trackstand at that junction hoping the light would change.. which it didnt for what seemed like 3-4 minutes. my girfriend had never seen a trackstand before and was in hystrerics as this lad found it increasingly harder to stay upright. he did it in the end, really impressive. we were cheering him on from the car

Raam

OldNotWIse wrote: »

Ah. It's a little confusing the way they have the lights positioned (to me anyway)

The first set of lights for the junction is behind the driver, so we can't see them in the vid.

Tenzor07

Oscar Gateaux wrote: »

I've never had any problem with this junction.

Ok, I will be more specific so..

Coming from Howth road South bound the 2 lanes narrow at the lights so no cycle lane on the left to move up to the top of the que at the lights. Any filtering has to be done between the two lanes of traffic which is far from ideal due to the traffic coming right out of the Supervalu.

From Greenfield road direction... The left of the road is quite broken up on the approach to the lights, and there is no advance stop box for cyclists.
Same on the other side coming from Sutton station direction.
Also turning left from Greenfield road there is occasion where cars coming from the Marine hotel drive straight out as the bicyclist may not be seen making the left turn.

The sequence is quite slow for Howth bound traffic, especially going right and i've noticed a lot of bicyclists staying on the path after the coast road cycle lane runs out.

So my point is it's fine for most experienced cyclists, but is not easy to negotiate for novices as this video seems to highlight..

07Lapierre

Tenzor07 wrote: »

That's an awful junction at every direction for cyclists and drivers!

From the way the light sequence goes is traffic going straight at Sutton X get's the green whereas the right turn remains red for the ped crossing..maybe they got confused and moved forward before stopping and realising there mistake.

Fair play to you for not blasting the horn at them(?) like a lot of cars would do..


There should really be an advance stop box for cyclists there due to the large numbers of cyclists on that very popular route..

Agree its a crap junction but why the special treatment for cyclists? its crap for both cars and motorists..if the cyclists had obeyed the ROTR there wouldn't have been a problem?

desertcircus

I know it's a quibble, but it does my head in to read or hear phrases like "this is what gives cyclists a bad name". A cyclist or group of cyclists doing something idiotic give themselves a bad name; people who lean towards cheap stereotyping extend the blame to cyclists as a group.

Tenzor07

07Lapierre wrote: »

Agree its a crap junction but why the special treatment for cyclists? its crap for both cars and motorists..if the cyclists had obeyed the ROTR there wouldn't have been a problem?

Not asking for special treatment, ideally I would like to see some improvements to the junction for cyclists, just as a continuous cycle lane from the coast road lane to this junction at least, and some advance cycle lights and stop boxes.
I think you will agree that this is one of the busiest junctions for cyclists in north Dublin, especially at evenings and weekends..

Tenzor07

desertcircus wrote: »

I know it's a quibble, but it does my head in to read or hear phrases like "this is what gives cyclists a bad name". A cyclist or group of cyclists doing something idiotic give themselves a bad name; people who lean towards cheap stereotyping extend the blame to cyclists as a group.

Good point, cyclists are not a homogenous group...

07Lapierre

Tenzor07 wrote: »

Not asking for special treatment, ideally I would like to see some improvements to the junction for cyclists, just as a continuous cycle lane from the coast road lane to this junction at least, and some advance cycle lights and stop boxes.
I think you will agree that this is one of the busiest junctions for cyclists in north Dublin, especially at evenings and weekends..

Be careful what you ask for..we don't have a good track record for building good quality bike lanes!

Kav0777

Raam wrote: »

I have negotiated that junction a billion times at least. Never had a single problem with it.

Literally?...:eek:;)

I agree with you, I've cycled it many times and never had a problem.

cdaly_

Tenzor07 wrote: »

That's an awful junction at every direction for cyclists and drivers!

From the way the light sequence goes is traffic going straight at Sutton X get's the green whereas the right turn remains red for the ped crossing..maybe they got confused and moved forward before stopping and realising there mistake.

Quite aside from the hotel carpark exit which lands directly into the middle of the junction without the benefit of any traffic light...

Ole Rodrigo

He could have just offered a wave of apology. Unless he felt it was his right to break a red light.

Chips Lovell

desertcircus wrote: »

I know it's a quibble, but it does my head in to read or hear phrases like "this is what gives cyclists a bad name". A cyclist or group of cyclists doing something idiotic give themselves a bad name; people who lean towards cheap stereotyping extend the blame to cyclists as a group.

It's illogical. But that's how a lot of people think. And it's why plenty of innocent cyclists get dogs abuse because of antics like this.

cdaly_

Kav0777 wrote: »

Raam wrote: »

I have negotiated that junction a billion times at least. Never had a single problem with it.

Literally?...:eek:;)

Oh, I'd say so. He's very quick you know. You never see him passing you out unless there's a shocking strong headwind slowing him down to below the speed of light...

iwillhtfu

desertcircus wrote: »

I know it's a quibble, but it does my head in to read or hear phrases like "this is what gives cyclists a bad name". A cyclist or group of cyclists doing something idiotic give themselves a bad name; people who lean towards cheap stereotyping extend the blame to cyclists as a group.

As much as it might annoy you this is the view of most people. They don't see a father of 3 on a bike or a much loved daughter they see a cyclist and people cycling like gob****es don't help the opinion a lot of road users have of us.

codie

ror_74 wrote: »

He could have just offered a wave of apology. Unless he felt it was his right to break a red light.

As said the driver needed to clear the junction.Lights were green so driver was in his right to enter.Was he to know lights were going to turn red?Once in a junction it doesn't matter what colour the lights are you have to get out of there even if the lights go red.If the driver hadn't to stop for the cyclists he would of been well clear before the lights turned red.Cyclists asking for trouble doing this sort of thing .They were lucky they didn't meet the dreaded taxi driver that yarisbob met who got a boll...... for holding onto a barrier.

Missing audio.. was there much honking of the horn and expletives ? :pac:

endacl

iwillhtfu wrote: »

As much as it might annoy you this is the view of most people. They don't see a father of 3 on a bike or a much loved daughter they see a cyclist and people cycling like gob****es don't help the opinion a lot of road users have of us.

Ah, come on now. You can't counter a charge of generalisation with an alternative generalisation!

Ole Rodrigo

codie wrote: »

As said the driver needed to clear the junction.Lights were green so driver was in his right to enter.Was he to know lights were going to turn red?Once in a junction it doesn't matter what colour the lights are you have to get out of there even if the lights go red.If the driver hadn't to stop for the cyclists he would of been well clear before the lights turned red.Cyclists asking for trouble doing this sort of thing .They were lucky they didn't meet the dreaded taxi driver that yarisbob met who got a boll...... for holding onto a barrier.

I meant the cyclist. He could have said sorry and pulled back.

People make mistakes or get caught out breaking the rules. A simple nod or wave makes a difference. Ive noticed a few motorists doing this when about to pull across me. I'm in a better mood to forgive them when they are polite.

RainyDay

Tenzor07 wrote: »

Good point, cyclists are not a homogenous group...

Some of them are definitely gay. Ever seen that tight-fitting lycra....

seamus

Oscar Gateaux wrote: »

OP had a green light. Cyclists forced him to stop in the junction, when lights turned. He was correct to proceed when the way was clear.

If you wanted to get re-hee-heeaally technical about it, the OP should not have proceed past the white line unless the junction was clear. As it was, he followed the car in front into the junction without ensuring that his way was clear.

Though there's not a person in the country (including me) who would say anyone but the muppet on the bike was wrong.

iwillhtfu

endacl wrote: »

Ah, come on now. You can't counter a charge of generalisation with an alternative generalisation!

Generally I hate to generalise but I'll make an exception this time but generally I wouldn't

hmmm

They had clearly just made a mistake. I'm sure they didn't intend to find themselves in the middle of the road, so unless you're someone who has never made a mistake in your life I don't see why this "gives cyclists a bad name".

galwaycyclist

seamus wrote: »

If you wanted to get re-hee-heeaally technical about it, the OP should not have proceed past the white line unless the junction was clear. As it was, he followed the car in front into the junction without ensuring that his way was clear.

Yes. Which also leaves open the equal possibility (however remote) that the cyclists entered the junction on green and then had to stop because of some other obstruction.

The video does not show how they came to be in that position.

Certainly once they found themselves there, it does not seem to me that they acted recklessly of their own safety, instead they seem to have waited for crossing traffic.

As an aside that is one mess of a junction this is certainly the kind of thing that gives Irish road engineers a bad name.

cython

galwaycyclist wrote: »

Yes. Which also leaves open the equal possibility (however remote) that the cyclists entered the junction on green and then had to stop because of some other obstruction.

The video does not show how they came to be in that position.

If you look really carefully at the start you can see that one of the cyclists (the one who ultimately stops closest to the OP) is still proceeding forward as the OP approaches, and doing so from a distance back. They basically seem to come from behind the rest of the group and only stop when they realise the OP is continuing on. By doing so they have put themselves into a more dangerous position (by encroaching further on the traffic lane with right of way), so I would disagree with the below statement at least somewhat. Now perhaps the rest of the group found themselves in the junction unexpectedly somehow, but this particular one of them definitely could have stopped earlier.

galwaycyclist wrote: »

Certainly once they found themselves there, it does not seem to me that they acted recklessly of their own safety, instead they seem to have waited for crossing traffic.

As an aside that is one mess of a junction this is certainly the kind of thing that gives Irish road engineers a bad name.

Green&Red

While the cyclists were in the wrong, does the OP take a straight line through that junction or go slightly left to accentuate the issue?

A bit like that eijit that goes round with the bike cam.
A lot of road issues can be resolved by just not being indignant about every mistake.

galwaycyclist

cython wrote: »

Now perhaps the rest of the group found themselves in the junction unexpectedly somehow, but this particular one of them definitely could have stopped earlier.

Agree

Beasty

Green&Red wrote: »

While the cyclists were in the wrong, does the OP take a straight line through that junction or go slightly left to accentuate the issue?

A bit like that eijit that goes round with the bike cam.
A lot of road issues can be resolved by just not being indignant about every mistake.

The OP simply followed the road - there was no "deviation to the left" beyond the actual curvature of the road. He pulled up once he saw the cyclists and moved around them once it was clear they had pulled up and would not encroach further. To try and suggest the motorist exacerbated the situation is, frankly, ridiculous.

mathie

Green&Red wrote: »

While the cyclists were in the wrong, does the OP take a straight line through that junction or go slightly left to accentuate the issue?

A bit like that eijit that goes round with the bike cam.
A lot of road issues can be resolved by just not being indignant about every mistake.

I believe the driver of the car goes slightly left to adjust for the island he's approaching.

The road markings aid the people turning (the white dotted lines) no people going straight.

You can get an indication of how far the cyclists have broken the white line here ...

https://www.google.ie/maps/place/Sutton,+Co.+Dublin/@53.3894786,-6.110297,78m/data=!3m1!1e3!4m2!3m1!1s0x48670521a84ca20b:0x1800c7a937ea3550?hl=en

stecleary

The only thing wrong with that junction is the hotel car park, it not "tricky" in any way and even has all the same system as every other junction in the country where green means go, red means stop and even has a line as to how far you can travel with a red light!
I'm out that way a fair bit and see people in red and white jerseys doing this type of thing far too often. In a strange twist it happens to be the women from that club that do it the most while the men sit and wait

Wishbone Ash

Any cyclists who find that junction difficult should not really be out in public. It's straightforward with good visibility.

(The only slight problem is the odd errant driver exiting from the hotel which is not really a road/junction problem ).

Wishbone Ash

stecleary wrote: »

The only thing wrong with that junction is the hotel car park, it not "tricky" in any way and even has all the same system as every other junction in the country where green means go, red means stop and even has a line as to how far you can travel with a red light!
I'm out that way a fair bit and see people in red and white jerseys doing this type of thing far too often. In a strange twist it happens to be the women from that club that do it the most while the men sit and wait

Green doesn't mean go.

It indicates that you may proceed only if your way is clear and it is safe to do so.

AltAccount

These cyclists are absolute clowns, IMHO it's entirely their fault.

Does anyone have their phone numbers or email addresses? If they're going around giving me a bad name, I'd like to have a word with them and ask them to stop.

07Lapierre

Wishbone Ash wrote: »

The only slight problem is the odd errant driver exiting from the hotel which is not really a road/junction problem

The OP's video clearly shows that cyclists can also cause problems

cluelez

Timberrrrrrrr wrote: »

You then continue on and break a red light!

so what?

Have they not teaching you in EU that once you are present and entered the intersection and the light changes (and you were slowed down by another user of the road then in these circumstances) You are RIGHT to leave the intersection!

Learn how to drive.