the law on sharedownership

ladyeaston

Hi I am back again wanting to ask our TD, to ask the minister for housing to change the law on shared ownership and return the rent part to the people who pay 4/ half % every year, I would like to hear l from people who have the same problem , if we can get together as a group and go to the minister for housing and see can we get this written off,

godtabh

Why should you get it written off?

ladyeaston

if you have a shared ownership loan we can speak but if you dont i am working on this for 7 years so i dont want to have to explain to everyone, thank you for your reply, and what i mean is written it off the full loan

godtabh

What makes shared ownership different to any other form of ownership when you are expected to repay the loan you have taken out

Greenmachine

No idea how the rental portion compares nowadays in Kildare to the mortgage portion. When my parent took out a share ownership loan 20 something years ago, the rental portion was more expensive than the mortgage part. After a few years they refinanced. Maybe the council rents are more competitive now, still can't see someone saving more than €100 a month to own half a house after 25 years.

ladyeaston

yes i am paying 500 a month rent and 500 mortgage i have no problem paying the 1000 off the mortgage with the rent going up at 4and a half % every year and no cap the rent will be higher next year etc etc

ladyeaston

sorry to all i did not know that people think if one uses capital letters it means one is shouting ,

conorh91

ladyeaston wrote: »

if you have a shared ownership loan we can speak but if you dont i am working on this for 7 years so i dont want to have to explain to everyone

I've been paying taxes on work for about 7 years , but nobody's going to offer me property on-the-cheap.

I have absolutely no problem with people fighting their corner. But don't seriously make an argument for better terms, at the cost of other taxpayers, and expect those taxpayers to stay silent in return.

leprechaunxwwwx

conorh91 wrote: »

I've been paying taxes on work for about 7 years , but nobody's going to offer me property on-the-cheap.

I have absolutely no problem with people fighting their corner. But don't seriously make an argument for better terms, at the cost of other taxpayers, and expect those taxpayers to stay silent in return.

Hi, Conor, I think the OP wants to avoid this kind of response but didn't really put it tactfully. As your response presumes the scheme is a handout of some kind its 'on the cheap, and costs 'taxpayers' but just so your good self and other people who assume this is a handout of some kind are clear, the scheme costs the taxpayer nothing (it is the taxpayers that actually use the scheme) its a full house loan, with interest just like any other mortgage for those that could not get a loan from the normal providers due to low incomes etc... not something for social welfare recipients or homeless or council waiting lists. Its for low paid workers who wanted to make a go of it and bought a normal house in the normal market way.

The rent..... a loan..... yes, a loan....(around 50% of the total loan) rises 4.5 percent per year. This is taken from the rental equity, so really it is just like a year increase in a mortgage payment. See..... this is why the OP didn't want to go into it,

but I Hope that clarifies and the poor OP doesn't have to be spoken to like some kind of scrounger.

The 'shared' title was badly worded, nothing is shared. its yours, you pay for repairs, you pay the property tax. you get no benefits of a council house, the council are the bankers and that's it.

Back to the OP, yes, the people who availed of this are those on low incomes and at this moment in time cannot absorb their mortgages (rent) rising yearly even, if it is just part of the overall payment......there was a campaign some time ago, and a report was issued and has dragged on for two years 'mitigating measures' were promised by the minister in the many PQ but she has moved to education. Now that there is a new Minister maybe the SOS campaign will begin again.

ladyeaston

Thank you so much for that reply just yesterday i have sent a letter to the Minister and have a reply I and our group will be going to see our Minister in office, and yes i only wanted to speak with other people like myself who bought my own house not a council house my mortgage is like everyone else i have a full mortgage but because of how much i earned i was told i had to take the S.0. mortgage now for thoses who think i am using your tax money i work every day i dont take hand outs i pay all my bills , my family for generations have never ask our government for anything, like most people i pay my tv lic, taxes, bins , elec, gas, my family are in college,,,, plus i am paying a rent on the mortgage, this S. O. has been stepped down by government yet 100, of us in Ireland are still paying,

How would anyone as well as paying back their mortgage also pay 500 a month on top of that for rent its the same as paying two mortages and as this nice person put it , yes it goes up 4.5 % every year so my dear other people who think I am a scrounger , and that i got property on the cheap , I my total price on my so call cheap house is 310 thousand ,

Thank you for your lovely reply , and for clearing up this issue I am sick of been attacked by so many people and you brought a tear to my eye this morning you are so understanding , it is so refreshing to hear from someone who knows what they are talking about, my T.D. is also working on it with us,

ladyeaston

thank you again ms leprechaun

Gatling

A . you posted on a "Discussion forum"

B . You applied to take part in the shared ownership scheme and had to have read and understood when you were accepted on to the scheme exactly what was involved with regards to payments and other t&c

You went into this with your eyes open and yet your crying foul .

There's are families in worse situations and becoming homeless .
Wonder if any minister will change the laws to help them probably not .

ladyeaston

I think i am on the wrong web site , it would seem that i have left myself open once again to rude , bullying , and uncaring people , who lack under standing of what i am speaking about , i wanted to contact other people who have S.O. and wished to change the law, so as and from today i am leaving this site

thank you again ms/mr leprechaun you are the only one who understood what i was saying , " you will defeat anything but ignorance "

The_Morrigan

ladyeaston wrote: »

I think i am on the wrong web site , it would seem that i have left myself open once again to rude , bulling , and uncaring people , who lack under standing of what i am speaking about , i wanted to contact other people who have S.O. and wished to change the law, so as and from today i am leaving this bulling site,

thank you again ms/mr leprechaun you are the only one who understood what i was saying , " you will defeat anything but ignorance "

A difference in opinion is not bullying, nor is it rude or uncaring. You cannot just decide that people who do not agree with your or tell you want you want to here are bullies.

leprechaunxwwwx

Glad to help, with the info L.E.

Aye, the shared ownership, was a good idea at the time, it was based on property prices rising, so young *cough* (I wish) worker families could get their foot on the ladder and then as the family grew could move up and onwards. I was very thankful to DCC for the chance. All was going fine until all these cuts came in and now like other low paid workers its near impossible for me and my family to survive, a fair few of these homes have been repossessed, owners have lost their jobs and the DOE/DCC all know this scheme is flawed and needs to be tweaked, but nothing. I dearly want to hold on to owning the house even though my family have outgrown it and seeing as I put so much of the little money we have into it and im sure you are in the same position. In effect the scheme was to help people but that's not the way it turned out and we have been tossed aside, forgotten and as you see...... abused, I could just hand the keys back and apply for a council house at the taxpayers (my) expense, not going to dwell on ignorant comments anymore, finished, not more a word on it, point made.

The 4.5% yearly rise at the time was accepted as you thought you would transfer the whole loan in the future, but we all DOE/DCC/owners know that's not going to happen any time soon. On the upside and its not much of a silver lining when I need to feed my family but at least that 4.5% rise is not dead money, it is coming off the rental equity but at what time will this yearly rise stop now? When we are paying 2000 pm+ ??? This aspect really really needs to be looked at now. There is also the locked in aspect of the mortgage protection fees being so high and not being able to choose our own (cheaper) provider, it has been called the rolls royce of mortgage protection with a Rolls Royce cost to boot, at least when the stress kills me only half the house will be paid for.... yes only the mortgage part will be paid, the rental equity (50%) part remains for your loved one to pick up the pieces..... going up 4.5% per year !!!!!!!!!! another flaw.

if you go onto the Kildare street website and search for shared ownership you will see the many PQs and the same old response.


Anyway, it could be worse, you could be homeless now with no support in place, maybe in the future they will have sorted it out, not holding my breath (but cant anyway as if I pop my clogs it wont be covered) theres a FB page dedicated to this called Shared Ownership Scam, join up and we can talk there.

leprechaunxwwwx

The_Morrigan wrote: »

A difference in opinion is not bullying, nor is it rude or uncaring. You cannot just decide that people who do not agree with your or tell you want you want to here are bullies.

Hi TM, it wasn't a difference in opinion, it was factually incorrect information saying the op was living off the taxpayer.

leprechaunxwwwx

Gatling wrote: »

A . you posted on a "Discussion forum"

B . You applied to take part in the shared ownership scheme and had to have read and understood when you were accepted on to the scheme exactly what was involved with regards to payments and other t&c

You went into this with your eyes open and yet your crying foul .

There's are families in worse situations and becoming homeless .
Wonder if any minister will change the laws to help them probably not .

A. Correct, then lets discuss, understanding is also part of discussions not only incorrect accusations.

B. Correct, we are asking for something unworkable to be tweaked, read the OP .... 'CHANGE' we are not "crying fowl" we are not looking for cash discounts as you seem to be implying still....please don't try to demonise us, try to understand instead (refer to point 1)

Families becoming homeless are families becoming homeless, shared ownership or not, workers being turfed out, no different, not sure where you get this misconception we are any different from anyone else. however if you wish to know more about us when we are turfed out those with a bank mortgage are better off as a shared ownership person cannot re-apply for council house for two years. Im sure those in the shared ownership scheme that have lost their homes would be seething by your last statement.

I wont be 'discussing' this anymore unless its something to discuss rather than incorrect or snide remarks.

Gatling

leprechaunxwwwx wrote: »

A. Correct, then lets discuss, understanding is also part of discussions not only incorrect accusations.

B. Correct, we are asking for something unworkable to be tweaked, read the OP .... 'CHANGE' we are not "crying fowl" we are not looking for cash discounts as you seem to be implying still....please don't try to demonise us, try to understand instead (refer to point 1)

Families becoming homeless are families becoming homeless, shared ownership or not, workers being turfed out, no different, not sure where you get this misconception we are any different from anyone else. however if you wish to know more about us when we are turfed out those with a bank mortgage are better off as a shared ownership person cannot re-apply for council house for two years. Im sure those in the shared ownership scheme that have lost their homes would be seething by your last statement.

I wont be 'discussing' this anymore unless its something to discuss rather than incorrect or snide remarks.

Well then send them this way because I've personally never heard of one single case of council repossession of a shared ownership property .

But bear in mind this is the legal discussion forum and probably isn't the best place for this

Is this the scheme:
http://www.citizensinformation.ie/en/housing/owning_a_home/help_with_buying_a_home/shared_ownership.html

Introduction

The Shared Ownership Scheme was aimed at people who could not afford to buy their entire home in one go. It has now been stood down for new applicants. The rules of the scheme continue to apply for people who used it to start buying a home. An Incremental Purchase Scheme will provide another way for people on low incomes to start buying a home, subject to certain conditions.
People who are buying Shared Ownership homes

You may increase the proportion you are buying at any time, either by adding to your mortgage or paying cash. You must buy the full ownership within 30 years. This does not mean that you have to repay all capital outstanding on the mortgage within the 30-year period. You may take out another mortgage to buy out the remaining share when the original mortgage is paid off.

You can sell the house or apartment at any time. The local authority will, of course, be entitled to claim the value of the proportion it owns at the time of sale. If it provided the house or apartment at a discount from the market value, you must refund a proportion of this discount, depending on how long you have lived in it.

Transactions under the Shared Ownership Scheme are exempt from stamp duty. Local authorities are also required to keep legal costs to a minimum.
Household Charge

If your home was in Shared Ownership with the local authority on the liability date for the Household Charge (1 January 2012), it was exempt from the Household Charge, as the local authority still retained an ownership stake in the property. Your home did not have to be registered in order for you to claim the exemption.
How the scheme worked

The Shared Ownership Scheme allowed people to start by buying a proportion of a home, increasing that proportion in steps until they owned it all, and with ownership shared between the buyer and the local authority. Buyers would make payments on a mortgage for the part being purchased and pay rent to the local authority for the other part at a rate of 4.3%.

To avail of the scheme, you had to:

Get approved in principle for shared ownership by the local authority
Identify a new or existing house or build a new house (some local authorities also had homes for sale under the scheme at a discount).
Ensure that the home was suitable for your needs, met certain minimum standards and was acceptable to the local authority.

If the local authority was satisfied that you could afford the mortgage repayments and the rent, it would buy the house or apartment and grant you a shared ownership lease. From the start, you had to buy at least 40% of the house or apartment.
Upper limits for purchasers

Some local authorities operated an upper limit on the amount that could be borrowed under the scheme. This amount varied, depending on the location of the property and the local authority involved.

Local authorities could also set a maximum percentage of income that could be apportioned to rental/mortgage payments. In each case the long-term viability of the mortgage/rental payments was the key concern.
Rules

To qualify for the Shared Ownership Scheme you had to be:

In need of housing and your income satisfied the income test below, or
Registered on a housing waiting list with a local authority, or
A local authority tenant or a tenant purchaser (if you wanted to buy a private house, you had to return your local authority house to the local authority), or
A tenant for more than one year of a home provided by a housing association under the Capital Loan Scheme and you wanted to buy a private house/apartment and return your existing house/apartment to the housing association.

The income test only applied to the first category; if you were covered by the second, third or fourth category, you were exempt from the income test.

You had to buy at least 40% of the price the local authority paid for the house/apartment.
The income test

Single-income household: if your gross income (before tax) in the last income tax year was €40,000 or less you were eligible.
Two-income households: multiply the gross income (before tax) of the higher earner in the last income tax year by 2.5. Add the gross income of the other earner in the last income tax year. If the answer was €100,000 or less, you were eligible.

Rates
Total monthly payment

This amount depends on the cost of the house, the proportion you are renting and current interest rates.
Rent subsidy

If your household income in the last income tax year was less than €28,000 per year, you could qualify for a rent subsidy of between €1,050 to €2,550 per year as long as the subsidy would not reduce the rent below €1 per week.
Deposit

The local authority could waive the €1,270 deposit if:

You were resettling in a rural area from a major urban area and
You were giving up a local authority house or had been approved for local authority housing.

leprechaunxwwwx

Gatling wrote: »

Well then send them this way because I've personally never heard of one single case of council repossession of a shared ownership property .

But bear in mind this is the legal discussion forum and probably isn't the best place for this

Sadly as of May 2012, this was the amount



Voluntary
2010 - 73
2011 - 49
2012 - 64

forced
2010 - 16
2011 - 54
2012 - 73


Regardless of who or what or why or when or how, its sad.

The government have the power and to tweak this 4.5% on the scheme, it may add one or two years onto the total mortgage but that's fine with me.


Hi mods can we move it this thread (and edit out this comment )

Gatling

leprechaunxwwwx wrote: »

Sadly as of May 2012, this was the amount



Voluntary
2010 - 73
2011 - 49
2012 - 64

forced
2010 - 16
2011 - 54
2012 - 73


Regardless of who or what or why or when or how, its sad.

The government have the power and to tweak this 4.5% on the scheme, it may add one or two years onto the total mortgage but that's fine with me.


Hi mods can we move it this thread (and edit out this comment )

Where do these figures come from exactly

leprechaunxwwwx

Deleted User wrote: »

Is this the scheme:

Big post but yes that's it.

just to clarify on that again.... the rental equity is 50% for me and goes up by 4.3 percent per year .... so its a 4.3% rise on 50 percent of the loan, If that was frozen it would give relief. Not asking for a discount or any freebie, just relief on money they will get back anyway (and make money on as the term would extend. The fact that this 4.3 rule is in place means a change can be made, people on a normal bank mortgage don't have something like this to try and bargain with but they haven't had to put up with the yearly rises up to now, swings and roundabouts.

We did get off on the LPT (please don't begrudge us that 100 euros (it kind of got swallowed up with the higher mortgage protection (around €80 per month) and I reiterate it does not cover the rental equity part we would be left with. We pay the property tax like everyone else.

leprechaunxwwwx

Gatling wrote: »

Where do these figures come from exactly

Why do you question this exactly? I can only assume that you question it because you may think I made it up, otherwise you wouldn't be asking me this would you? You would just accept it as the figures and say 'I wasn't aware of that, must have been an awful time for those people'. and I would say 'yes'.

leprechaunxwwwx

and also I cant post urls,

google dessie ellis Thursday, 10 May 2012 70 shared ownership repossessions

from there in the Kildare st search use the term shared ownership for more facts and figures

Not sure if it is exactly the same figures but:
A third of local authority homes loans are in arrears

The figures also show that the number of home repossessions by councils has increased sharply in the past three years, with a total of 89 in 2010, 103 in 2011 and 137 last year.

It also says there are over 20,000 local authority mortgages - I am surprised by the amount.

leprechaunxwwwx

20,000 no that doesnt sound right but figures would be available provided by the minister in a pq somewhere. Anyways im signing off this thread and for all the lower paid however hard they are trying to pay their way in difficult times i wish them luck.