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Estate not taken in charge

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  • 02-09-2014 2:02pm
    #1
    TheBrigadier
    Registered Users Posts: 12 ✭


    Hi,

    Currently sale agreed on a house but I've hit a couple of snags.

    The estate has not been taken into charge by the council and there is no management company in the estate. The estate is completed. Roads are finished, paths are finished. Everything looks perfect in the place.

    My solicitor is worried that this might be a red flag with the bank. Especially as the developer is in receivership.

    Does anyone have any experience with this kind of issue?

    Thanks


Comments

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    #2
    D3PO
    Registered Users Posts: 7,879 ✭✭✭D3PO


    two words walk away.


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    #3
    L1011
    Registered Users Posts: 68,903 ✭✭✭✭L1011


    How old is the estate? Is there a residents association? You need to find out if the council has refused to take it in charge or not mainly.


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    #4
    Grandpa Hassan
    Registered Users Posts: 1,945 ✭✭✭Grandpa Hassan


    D3PO wrote: »
    two words walk away.

    Not sure I would necessarily go as far as that. This isn't an unfinished estate, where the advice would be to run a mile no matter how good the price or how nice the house.

    The issue here will be with grounds maintenance and the management of a sinking fund for repairs etc. If there is a functioning resident's committee, it might be that these aspects are being adequately managed. But I would investigate all of that before proceeding, for sure.


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    #5
    D3PO
    Registered Users Posts: 7,879 ✭✭✭D3PO


    but a resident committee has no legal standing, and they certainly wont be managing a sinking fund.

    If theres no management company and the council dont have charge then I dont think saying walk away is even remotely too strong a statement.


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    #6
    TheDriver
    Registered Users Posts: 12,514 ✭✭✭✭TheDriver


    what if its a normal estate where a management company is generally not required i.e. an estate of semi ds? I thought these only have a res committee to collect for grass cutting and some painting as its all common areas involving grass and kerbs


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    #7
    TheBrigadier
    Registered Users Posts: 12 ✭TheBrigadier


    MYOB wrote: »
    How old is the estate? Is there a residents association? You need to find out if the council has refused to take it in charge or not mainly.

    The estate is 9 years old now. There appears to be a very active residents association. Council have just never taken it over. The developer has never asked them to and neither have the residents. My research tells me that the residents have now asked for this and the council are drawing up a tender document for private contractors to complete the necessary investigation work of the services etc.

    I'm not being myopic when i say this but the estate is immaculate. I had no idea it was not maintained by the local authority and was shocked when I found out.


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    #8
    Marcusm
    Registered Users Posts: 10,336 ✭✭✭✭Marcusm


    TheBrigadier wrote: »
    The estate is 9 years old now. There appears to be a very active residents association. Council have just never taken it over. The developer has never asked them to and neither have the residents. My research tells me that the residents have now asked for this and the council are drawing up a tender document for private contractors to complete the necessary investigation work of the services etc.

    I'm not being myopic when i say this but the estate is immaculate. I had no idea it was not maintained by the local authority and was shocked when I found out.

    Grounds maintenance is only a small issue - most older estates will have little involvement from the council other than a small number of grass cuts during the year. A more serious issue relates to drain and sewer management which, if not taken in charge, rests with the bankrupt developer but with the residents needing to rely on it. No problem may ever arise but if it does, you would not only have issues of costs but also of access to the property, plans etc. These self same issues arose in the 1970s and it might have been expected that local authorities would have been keen to ensure proper compliance but hey ho.


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    #9
    L1011
    Registered Users Posts: 68,903 ✭✭✭✭L1011


    If there hasn't been an actual rejection of a request to take it in charge there are far less reasons a bank would refuse.

    Another thing which may help is to check the PPR to see if properties are selling and if so, what for. There's two estates near me which sell for vastly less than surrounding ones, one as it has a sewage pumping issue that the council refuse to take in charge 20 years later and the other because its uninsurable (floods). However, with low sales volumes in recent years this isn't always a great tool


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    #10
    Victor
    Registered Users Posts: 78,422 ✭✭✭✭Victor


    TheBrigadier wrote: »
    Roads are finished, paths are finished. Everything looks perfect in the place.
    Looking good does not mean everything is good.

    A start would be to check the planning permission. Also check if there has been any request to take the estate in charge.


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    #11
    foggy_lad
    Closed Accounts Posts: 20,373 ✭✭✭✭foggy_lad


    TheDriver wrote: »
    what if its a normal estate where a management company is generally not required i.e. an estate of semi ds? I thought these only have a res committee to collect for grass cutting and some painting as its all common areas involving grass and kerbs

    How does all that work get done if nobody or only a few people pay the residents association fees? Residents associations have no powers to make anyone give them as much as a cent!


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    #12
    TheBrigadier
    Registered Users Posts: 12 ✭TheBrigadier


    Marcusm wrote: »
    Grounds maintenance is only a small issue - most older estates will have little involvement from the council other than a small number of grass cuts during the year. A more serious issue relates to drain and sewer management which, if not taken in charge, rests with the bankrupt developer but with the residents needing to rely on it. No problem may ever arise but if it does, you would not only have issues of costs but also of access to the property, plans etc. These self same issues arose in the 1970s and it might have been expected that local authorities would have been keen to ensure proper compliance but hey ho.

    I've been researching and there was an issue with a blocked sewer and storm drain a while ago and when the council were informed about it, they came out and pumped out the water straight away. They let the developers bond lapse without renewal. Perhaps they feel liable to resolve these issues because of that.


    MYOB wrote: »
    If there hasn't been an actual rejection of a request to take it in charge there are far less reasons a bank would refuse.

    Another thing which may help is to check the PPR to see if properties are selling and if so, what for. There's two estates near me which sell for vastly less than surrounding ones, one as it has a sewage pumping issue that the council refuse to take in charge 20 years later and the other because its uninsurable (floods). However, with low sales volumes in recent years this isn't always a great tool

    There hasn't been a rejection as of yet. The residents have petitioned the council to take it in charge. I've spoken to 2 councilors in the area and they have said that the council are currently drawing up a tender for 3rd parties to undertake the investigative work. They council have also confirmed that Irish Water are drawing up a protocol to take over the services.

    Looking at the PPR, about 10 sales have gone through in the last 2 years. Of course they could all be cash but that is unlikely in itself. I'd imagine at least some got over this hurdle...

    Victor wrote: »
    Looking good does not mean everything is good.

    A start would be to check the planning permission. Also check if there has been any request to take the estate in charge.


    I know that. I'm just pointing out that it was a shock to find out the council don't look after things.


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    #13
    TheBrigadier
    Registered Users Posts: 12 ✭TheBrigadier


    One thing I'm also wondering about. We have gone to loan offer stage with the bank already. My solicitor is saying that he needs to qualify the marketable title with the fact the estate is not in charge. I can't see anything in the terms and conditions or the conditions of the loan saying that they can tank this deal due to this.

    Could we force this through due to the fact that the loan offer is legally binding?

    Lastly, I've checked with loads of insurance companies and we can get insurance on the property.


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    #14
    TheBrigadier
    Registered Users Posts: 12 ✭TheBrigadier


    The good news is the bank accepted the title and qualification from my solicitor.

    All systems go it seems


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    #15
    Mileybichon
    Registered Users Posts: 12 ✭Mileybichon


    Im delighted it's worked out for you.
    Im having the exact same problem at the moment, got the loan offer due to get keys on 22nd of this month and now the bank are saying they won't go ahead with the mortgage unless the estate is taken in charge! I am so stressed about it now, don't know what to do. There is a management company in the estate so the estate is not going to be taken over for at least another few years.
    How did you get yours sorted in the end?
    I can't understand how the bank can make this a condition of the loan offer, where plenty of other houses in the estate have been bought and sold in the last two years


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    #16
    TheBrigadier
    Registered Users Posts: 12 ✭TheBrigadier


    Mileybichon wrote: »
    Im delighted it's worked out for you.
    Im having the exact same problem at the moment, got the loan offer due to get keys on 22nd of this month and now the bank are saying they won't go ahead with the mortgage unless the estate is taken in charge! I am so stressed about it now, don't know what to do. There is a management company in the estate so the estate is not going to be taken over for at least another few years.
    How did you get yours sorted in the end?
    I can't understand how the bank can make this a condition of the loan offer, where plenty of other houses in the estate have been bought and sold in the last two years

    I don't 100% know how he got it over the line. I'll ask him and let you know what he says.

    If there is a management company, I wouldn't have thought there would be an issue.

    Is the estate unfinished?

    Feel free to PM me if you'd like


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    #17
    Mileybichon
    Registered Users Posts: 12 ✭Mileybichon


    Just to let you know, the bank have changed their minds so estate does not have to be taken in charge. Thank God, Thanks for your advise


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    #18
    Woodville56
    Closed Accounts Posts: 1,643 ✭✭✭Woodville56


    Mileybichon wrote: »
    Just to let you know, the bank have changed their minds so estate does not have to be taken in charge. Thank God, Thanks for your advise

    Been following this thread as we are currently sale agreed on a property where it appears that the estate management company had lapsed and residents are looking for the council to take the estate in charge - it's classified as an unfinished estate although most of the houses are occupied and the remainder are for sale, there are some site works outstanding . It's not clear to us at this stage if or when the council will actually take charge of the estate common areas and if this will hold things up for us. So we are wondering what approach our bank will take on this issue - we have mortgage approval, letter of offer etc. Can I ask which bank you are dealing with ? PM on this is fine


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    #19
    Chris_5339762
    Registered Users Posts: 5,902 ✭✭✭Chris_5339762


    I'd run from that one, a lapsed management company can be a whole different (and much more painful) ball game than simply an estate not being passed to the coincil.


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    #20
    TheBrigadier
    Registered Users Posts: 12 ✭TheBrigadier


    Woodville56 wrote: »
    Been following this thread as we are currently sale agreed on a property where it appears that the estate management company had lapsed and residents are looking for the council to take the estate in charge - it's classified as an unfinished estate although most of the houses are occupied and the remainder are for sale, there are some site works outstanding . It's not clear to us at this stage if or when the council will actually take charge of the estate common areas and if this will hold things up for us. So we are wondering what approach our bank will take on this issue - we have mortgage approval, letter of offer etc. Can I ask which bank you are dealing with ? PM on this is fine

    A good place to start is to try and find out if more than half of the residents have petitioned the council to take in charge. If that has formally happened, under the planning act, the council are obliged to take it in charge.

    Get onto local councilors and and ask people currently living there


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