Elderly Grandmother, Property tax

ZigOrZag

Hi all,

I suppose I'm looking for a small bit of advice.

My grandmother has not paid her property tax on her home. This is our fault - one family member thought another was doing it who thought someone else was doing it.

I've only just discovered this now and need to get it sorted asap.

Can anyone give me any idea what kind of cost I'm looking at here to get this up to date?

When I use the LPT calculator the tax for 2013 is €45 (house is under €100k in value) and €90 for 2014.

What is the situation with interest and penalties here? This was a genuine oversight on our part and it won't happen again as I'm going to take responsibility for this from now on...are they completely strict on payment of the arrears and all penalties associated with it?

Paulownia

Ring them up, you will have to pay a fine, my mother is 92 and I had the same thing, they have no interest in how old people are from my experience. The sooner you do it the less the fine and you can pay over the telephone immediately.

Mrs OBumble

Whoever has Power of Attorney for your grandmother really is the one who should be paying the penalty (themselves, not from your grandmother's assets - because they are the person who f*** up here).

If no one has a PoA, then I'm not sure that anyone other than your grandmother is actually entitled to pay it, as it's her responsibility, not yours.

No reason why the person's age should matter: 20% of the country is illiterate, next you'll be saying that people who cannot read should be exempt from penalties too.

Frank Lee Midere

Mrs OBumble wrote: »

Whoever has Power of Attorney for your grandmother really is the one who should be paying the penalty (themselves, not from your grandmother's assets - because they are the person who f*** up here).

If no one has a PoA, then I'm not sure that anyone other than your grandmother is actually entitled to pay it, as it's her responsibility, not yours.

No reason why the person's age should matter: 20% of the country is illiterate, next you'll be saying that people who cannot read should be exempt from penalties too.

Dubious stat.

Paulownia

There is no indication that the OP has a power of attorney at all. Powers of attorney nowadays are absolute and should not be entered into lightly either by the person who takes responsability or the person who relinquishes it. it means that the person cannot write a cheque for instance, change their will or sign any legally binding document.
In the past you could give someone a power of attorney and also act on your own behalf.

MouseTail

If the grandmother is on the pension, and has no other source of income, she can defer payment until house is sold or passed on in probate, at an interest rate of 4% p.a.

Mrs OBumble

Frank Lee Midere wrote: »

Dubious stat.

Not at all:

ref: https://www.nala.ie/literacy/literacy-in-ireland

The OECD Adult Skills Survey shows that 17.9% or about 1 in 6, Irish adults are at or below level 1 on a five level literacy scale. Ireland ranks 15th out of 24 participating countries. At this level a person may be unable to understand basic written information.

25% or 1 in 4 Irish adults score at or below level 1 for numeracy compared to just over 20% on average across participating countries. This places Ireland even further down the international rankings in 19th place.

gctest50

Frank Lee Midere wrote: »

Dubious stat.

close

The OECD Adult Skills Survey shows that 17.9% or about 1 in 6, Irish adults are at or below level 1 on a five level literacy scale.

https://www.nala.ie/literacy/literacy-in-ireland

The_Morrigan

Folks this is A&P, can you keep to the topic at hand and not the level of literacy in Ireland.

Sh1tbag OToole

Great little country isn't it, you have been living in your house for the past 50 odd years, never bothered a soul and now suddenly you owe the government money for the privilege of being allowed to live in the said house.

Mrs OBumble

Sh1tbag OToole wrote: »

Great little country isn't it, you have been living in your house for the past 50 odd years, never bothered a soul and now suddenly you owe the government money for the privilege of being allowed to live in the said house.

A great little country indeed, where people don't understand that a wealth tax is a very fair tool for raising the funds needed to provide the roads and sewerage system going to and from the house.

And cannot tell the difference between being allowed to live in a house, and owning it.

mrsbyrne

Ring them. Pay whst she owes over the phone and then set it up for her to let it go out of her pension every week. That way you she or anybody else won't need to think about it again until they ask for a re estimate in 2016.

Rabbo

Mrs OBumble wrote: »

Whoever has Power of Attorney for your grandmother really is the one who should be paying the penalty (themselves, not from your grandmother's assets - because they are the person who f*** up here).

If no one has a PoA, then I'm not sure that anyone other than your grandmother is actually entitled to pay it, as it's her responsibility, not yours.

No reason why the person's age should matter: 20% of the country is illiterate, next you'll be saying that people who cannot read should be exempt from penalties too.

Thats a little harsh isn't it?


There are many elderly people out there who have no support or no one with POA over them. They may not be fully aware or the property tax or may have forgotten due to their age. Are you suggesting that these people should be penalised? There should be no allowance made for elderly people who, through no fault of their own, may have omitted paying the property charge?

I can only presume you have no elderly relatives yourself.

GerardKeating

Mrs OBumble wrote: »

A great little country indeed, where people don't understand that a wealth tax is a very fair tool for raising the funds needed to provide the roads and sewerage system going to and from the house.

And cannot tell the difference between being allowed to live in a house, and owning it.

Almost no where in the world can one live in one's own house for "free".

Most/all houses have/need services of some kind, Some countries even charge for Electricity..

MouseTail

Rabbo wrote: »

Thats a little harsh isn't it?


There are many elderly people out there who have no support or no one with POA over them. They may not be fully aware or the property tax or may have forgotten due to their age. Are you suggesting that these people should be penalised? There should be no allowance made for elderly people who, through no fault of their own, may have omitted paying the property charge?

I can only presume you have no elderly relatives yourself.

There is allowances, they can defer, and even if they don't do that, no one is going to pursue a 90 year old for payment. The State will get the payment after probate.

P. Breathnach

Sh1tbag OToole wrote: »

Great little country isn't it, you have been living in your house for the past 50 odd years, never bothered a soul and now suddenly you owe the government money for the privilege of being allowed to live in the said house.

For the first 13 of those 50 years you would have been paying rates, which were far more onerous than LPT.

Mrs OBumble

Rabbo wrote: »

Thats a little harsh isn't it?


There are many elderly people out there who have no support or no one with POA over them. They may not be fully aware or the property tax or may have forgotten due to their age. Are you suggesting that these people should be penalised? There should be no allowance made for elderly people who, through no fault of their own, may have omitted paying the property charge?

I can only presume you have no elderly relatives yourself.

On the contrary, I've held POA for elderly relatives.

Neither age nor lack of education removes a person's obligations as a citizen.

If a person lacks the capability to manage their own affairs, then they need to have someone acting for them. Just because some have been too irresponsible to arrange this does not mean the state should exempt them from their obligations.

Sh1tbag OToole

Mrs OBumble wrote: »

On the contrary, I've held POA for elderly relatives.

Neither age nor lack of education removes a person's obligations as a citizen.

If a person lacks the capability to manage their own affairs, then they need to have someone acting for them. Just because some have been too irresponsible to arrange this does not mean the state should exempt them from their obligations.

That's funny, you simply accept the state's drumming up everyone who owns a house up for an arbitrary amount of cash after the most colossal financial fcuk up this country has seen as their "obligations as a citizen"? And you're calling a 90 year old irresponsible just because they havn't been tuning into RTE to hear the demands for money (or arranging for someone else to do it on their behalf)?

What a twisted view of the world you have, I thought in our modern socialist paradise the state should be trying to look after 90 year olds rather than trying to slip the houses out from under them

mrsbyrne

No body is going to evict this lady over non payment of LPT. If she falls financially into the deferral criteria then the liability will be discharged on the sale of her house after her death. Whats the problem?

Zamboni

Wow. Does anybody remember a time when somebody could ask a question and simply have it answered.
All without people drawing enemy lines and getting up on soapboxes?

GerardKeating

Zamboni wrote: »

Wow. Does anybody remember a time when somebody could ask a question and simply have it answered.
All without people drawing enemy lines and getting up on soapboxes?

Not really

Tigger

Zamboni wrote: »

Wow. Does anybody remember a time when somebody could ask a question and simply have it answered.
All without people drawing enemy lines and getting up on soapboxes?

Way back when in the faraway time
When everyone rode tigers and ate decking

Mrs OBumble

Sh1tbag OToole wrote: »

That's funny, you simply accept the state's drumming up everyone who owns a house up for an arbitrary amount of cash after the most colossal financial fcuk up this country has seen as their "obligations as a citizen"? And you're calling a 90 year old irresponsible just because they havn't been tuning into RTE to hear the demands for money (or arranging for someone else to do it on their behalf)?

What a twisted view of the world you have, I thought in our modern socialist paradise the state should be trying to look after 90 year olds rather than trying to slip the houses out from under them

Paying taxes that are levied by a legitimately elected government is part of a person's obligations as a citizen.

And socialists believe in wealth taxes.

The_Morrigan

Folks, this is not the politics forum.