Student accommodation crisis in Dublin

truffle5

Although this crisis is in Dublin, it affects young people from across Ireland. Many newspaper articles and radio talk shows have been lamenting the fact that some students have had to defer college for a year due to their inability to find suitable student accommodation. Others face daily commutes to Dublin of up to 2 hours each way.

The causes of this problems are:
1. Landlords are reluctant to take on students who have a reputation for being late paying rent, generally causing trouble and wrecking the place before they move out. Students usually only sign short 9 month leases, leaving the apartment empty for the summer months and therefore not making money.

2. Short supply and high demand means rent is too damn high in Dublin. Even house sharing with 3 other people could leave you paying well over 600 euro per month.

3. Too many colleges/third level institutions in Dublin. Half of the county's young people pile into the capital every September. This is on top of all the workers who migrate from villages across Ireland to the big smoke in search of work, putting huge strain on Dublin's infrastructure.

Solutions? Universities should invest in high-rise student apartment blocks. Land is in short supply in the city centre so we need to build upwards. No point in building houses out on the fringes of Blanchardstown, perpetuating urban sprawl. This is a long-term solution. Short-term solutions - Elderly Dubliners could maybe rent out a room. Many students would turn their nose up at digs as it means forgoing the party lifestyle but beggars can't be choosers in my book. I should add that I can't blame landlords for being hesitant to take on students. Why should they when they can rent to a working professional who can pay more?

KERSPLAT!

Moved to Accommodation and Property, please be familiar with the A + P charter here

http://www.boards.ie/vbulletin/showthread.php?t=52883

-KERSPLAT!

Hotfail.com

truffle5 wrote: »

Elderly Dubliners could maybe rent out a room. Many students would turn their nose up at digs as it means forgoing the party lifestyle but beggars can't be choosers in my book.

This sort of thing is already happening. I know 2 guys who are staying in a house in Dublin with a family, and the money they're giving up is going to put towards the owner's children's education when they reach third-level. Quite a clever idea actually.

Gatling

The problem is op its not just students its affected by the shortage or properties its across the whole rental market ,
In some cases students are considered worse risks than dredded rent allowence ,
If the universites and colleges got together and bought land and built high rise student accommodation them selfs you would probably have the same issues to get the money back from the massive outlay for the land and construction of the high rises the rents needed to be charged wouldnt make it vialable for most students especially if there going to be empty 4 months of the year ,

Maybe satellite university's should be built outside the main cities and take the pressure off students having to move to and struggle to find accommodation in cities that are already have insufficient housing stock for anybody

murphaph

Gatling wrote: »

The problem is op its not just students its affected by the shortage or properties its across the whole rental market ,
In some cases students are considered worse risks than dredded rent allowence ,
If the universites and colleges got together and bought land and built high rise student accommodation them selfs you would probably have the same issues to get the money back from the massive outlay for the land and construction of the high rises the rents needed to be charged wouldnt make it vialable for most students especially if there going to be empty 4 months of the year ,

Maybe satellite university's should be built outside the main cities and take the pressure off students having to move to and struggle to find accommodation in cities that are already have insufficient housing stock for anybody

So instead of building high rise halls of residence in Dublin we build entire universities from scratch elsewhere...which still need student accommodation to service them?

Perhaps ballymun should have been converted to halls of residence instead of demolishing the towers. Berlin has such high rise university owned blocks on the fringes.

Gatling

murphaph wrote: »

So instead of building high rise halls of residence in Dublin we build entire universities from scratch elsewhere...which still need student accommodation to service them?

Perhaps ballymun should have been converted to halls of residence instead of demolishing the towers. Berlin has such high rise university owned blocks on the fringes.

No you build smaller campuses out side of the main cities and in more counties this would put less stress on city based accommodation as it would make it easier for students to commute from towns and villlages on a daily basis ,

Unfortunately ballymum needed regeneration more than short term lets for students

drumswan

Gatling wrote: »

No you build smaller campuses out side of the main cities and in more counties this would put less stress on city based accommodation

Except students, like everyone else, don't want to live in small campuses on the middle of the country, they want to live in Dublin.

ProudDUB

Gatling wrote: »

No you build smaller campuses out side of the main cities and in more counties this would put less stress on city based accommodation as it would make it easier for students to commute from towns and villlages on a daily basis ,

UCD, DCU, Trinity and the DIT colleges already exist & have done for years/decades/centuries. You can't just bulldoze them all and rebuild them all from scratch. That is a total non starter.

I think the colleges themselves should be more proactive in providing student housing. The only problem is that Trinity, UCD and the DIT colleges are all on or near the most expensive land in the country, so building student housing is not as simple, easy or as inexpensive as it may seem.

Gatling

ProudDUB wrote: »

UCD, DCU, Trinity and the DIT colleges already exist & have done for years/decades/centuries. You can't just bulldoze them all and rebuild them all from scratch. That is a total non starter.

I think the colleges themselves should be more proactive in providing student housing. The only problem is that Trinity, UCD and the DIT colleges are all on or near the most expensive land in the country, so building student housing is not as simple, easy or as inexpensive as it may seem.

No I didn't say knock them down and rebuild them , I suggested building smaller satellite campuses outside of the main city based ones .
That can offer the courses and facilities so students aren't forced to travel to the city based centers this reliving the pressures on student accommodation ,

ProudDUB

But the campuses already exist in the city. If you rebuild smaller ones in the suburbs, that would mean getting rid of the ones that are already around, as there is no point in having two sets of everything. Can you really see that happening?

If a brand new UCD/DIT/TCD department decided to build its student facilities out in Clondalkin or Skerries, that would be great. It would ease the demand for city centre accommodation. But what about the hundreds of university departments that have existed for decades where they already are? Moving them out to the 'burbs is a non starter.

You can't just tell all of them that they have to start from scratch all over again, out in Clondalkin or Skerries. It would cost a fortune. It would also be a logistical nightmare for them & their students, having their campuses and facilities scattered from Balbriggan to Bray and from Ringsend to Rathcoole.

on_my_oe

My two cents - students need to reassess whether they want to go to third level, and if they do, accept that they may have to put up with digs. I say that as a full time worker doing a part time degree (defined as full time course load, just attending evenings and weekends - I'll graduate at the same time as the full timers).

The rent a room scheme tax free allowance potentially needs to be amended upwards - with the increase in utility bills (both in rate charged and extra usage) and the additional taxes (water, property tax), it makes it realistic to rent one room but not two, I'd rather have a spare bedroom.

Mrs OBumble

Let them go into digs: it provides a source of income for families / older people, and it will improve the students behaviour, and likely their results too.

The Spider

Load of nonsense, if you can't afford to go to college in Dublin then go somewhere you can, simple as.

The_Morrigan

The Spider wrote: »

Load of nonsense, if you can't afford to go to college in Dublin then go somewhere you can, simple as.

Not every course is available in every college in the country, not to mention some students (and their parents) seek the recognition of some colleges/universities over others.

The Spider

The_Morrigan wrote: »

Not every course is available in every college in the country, not to mention some students (and their parents) seek the recognition of some colleges/universities over others.

Of course they do, Paddy Cosgrove came out and said a degree in Trinity was worth 10 times a degree anywhere else.

Doesn't matter if you or your family can't afford to pay the costs irregardless of points etc, then you cant afford to go. It's incumbent on parents to save for childrens education, if they can't afford to, then their kids can't afford to go to UCD, Trinity etc, if they live outside Dublin.

When I went to college you went where you could afford, simple.

syklops

Im a full time worker in Dublin and I can just about afford to live in Dublin(I live about 4 miles from the border with Wicklow). I have no idea how students and their parents pay for living in Dublin City and going to college there. Even when the kids are working part time, it only brings in a percentage of whats needed and that is before travel and food.

Student accomodation should be cheap and cheerful. 600+ per person sharing is not cheap.

The number 1 problem is there is an accommodation crisis across the city for all demographics, which is putting up the price for all demographics.

Peregrine

The Spider wrote: »

Doesn't matter if you or your family can't afford to pay the costs irregardless of points etc, then you cant afford to go. It's incumbent on parents to save for childrens education, if they can't afford to, then their kids can't afford to go to UCD, Trinity etc, if they live outside Dublin.

When I went to college you went where you could afford, simple.

And is it okay that what a lot of people could have afforded up until just two years ago(and saved for many years before that) is no longer affordable? And even people that can afford it are stuggling to find accommodation?

Are you seriously suggesting that there is no issue here?

Connollacken

ProudDUB wrote: »

But the campuses already exist in the city. If you rebuild smaller ones in the suburbs, that would mean getting rid of the ones that are already around, as there is no point in having two sets of everything. Can you really see that happening?

If a brand new UCD/DIT/TCD department decided to build its student facilities out in Clondalkin or Skerries, that would be great. It would ease the demand for city centre accommodation. But what about the hundreds of university departments that have existed for decades where they already are? Moving them out to the 'burbs is a non starter.

You can't just tell all of them that they have to start from scratch all over again, out in Clondalkin or Skerries. It would cost a fortune. It would also be a logistical nightmare for them & their students, having their campuses and facilities scattered from Balbriggan to Bray and from Ringsend to Rathcoole.

I don't think it's really doubling up or scattering the facilities, just merely accommodating for the huge amount of students that go to Dublin every year. Specially with that relatively new music college BIMM, in which the courses last about 4 years, it's harder than ever now to find accommodation even at an unreasonable price.

If colleges in Dublin were to set up facilities across the country it would decrease the insurgence of students ever year, thus decreasing the high demand for accommodation which would force the price demands of rent in the Capital down. It would also help to pump money into the rest of the country, and increase jobs nationwide I'd say. However then there'd be less money coming into Dublin every year, and clearly they'd probably want to avoid that.

on_my_oe wrote: »

My two cents - students need to reassess whether they want to go to third level, and if they do, accept that they may have to put up with digs. I say that as a full time worker doing a part time degree (defined as full time course load, just attending evenings and weekends - I'll graduate at the same time as the full timers).

I think to be honest in this country, it's too much of a necessity to go to college rather than a desire to. Our colleges accessibility for say less "well-off" citizens (of which I am one and it's great, don't get me wrong) is completely taken for granted at times. Even for some people who are able to afford college, they're simply going to college because it's the next step not the right step. Probably not worth complaining about though, considering how good it is that we have this kind of accessibility.

Gatling

That's exactly what I said last night

drumswan

Connollacken wrote: »

If colleges in Dublin were to set up facilities across the country it would decrease the insurgence of students ever year, thus decreasing the high demand for accommodation which would force the price demands of rent in the Capital down. It would also help to pump money into the rest of the country, and increase jobs nationwide I'd say. However then there'd be less money coming into Dublin every year, and clearly they'd probably want to avoid that.

Why do country folk always suggest spending money and creating jobs elsewhere to 'solve' Dublins issues?

Connollacken

Yea I know, I was kinda backing up your point I guess to ProudDUB, as he didn't see the logic in it. I just came 12 hours to late the thread...

Connollacken

I think it's more student's issues to be honest that I care about. We'd be here until Christmas if we were trying to find solutions to Dublin's issues

Mrs OBumble

The_Morrigan wrote: »

Not every course is available in every college in the country, not to mention some students (and their parents) seek the recognition of some colleges/universities over others.

And the problem with that is?

Seriously - not everyone (who has the brains) can afford to train as a doctor, vet or astro-physicist.

People have to cut their coat, to so speak.





But I am wondering where exactly the smaller towns that have plenty of accommodation and empty buildings suitable for 3rd level education are. I know Galway isn't one of them (no spare accommodation).

The_Conductor

We have plenty of good colleges and universities other than those in Dublin.
The issue is Dublin has a critical shortage of housing.
It is not a shortage that is specific to students- or indeed any other group of people- its across the board.

The government are well aware of this- and the housing Minister, Jan O'Sullivan, has established a task force to explore the issue, alongside how to implement the government's 2020 housing strategy.

This issue came to a head for a number of reasons- not least of which was the removal of over 8000 housing units, when bedsits were outlawed (there was no cognisance of the simple fact that removing 8,000 units from the market in one foul swoop would reek havoc.

Nothing is going to be done anytime soon- probably not for several years- we are going to have to get used to the constraints of the current system.

Connollacken

Mrs OBumble wrote: »

But I am wondering where exactly the smaller towns that have plenty of accommodation and empty buildings suitable for 3rd level education are. I know Galway isn't one of them (no spare accommodation).

I too am from Galway and yes while there is a shortage of accommodation for students, there is also a large amount of housing estates that had been built during the boom years that are mostly empty. I wonder why they aren't being used? Sure there are quite a few out towards places like Oranmore or whatever, but there still perfectly good houses.

I'd say there's plenty of unused buildings across the country that could be used as college facilities. Whole industrial estates full of them. Getting the funding for them is another thing though.

Connollacken

The_Conductor wrote: »

Nothing is going to be done anytime soon- probably not for several years- we are going to have to get used to the constraints of the current system.

I wonder how many threads/people/taxi drivers have complaints about the state of a lot of our country's systems, but nothing ever actually gets done about it. It's sad to say, but we're a very inactive country when it comes to putting words to action (not everyone obviously, but a lot of us). Is this due to the fact that whenever we do protest, it ends up being completely in vain as nothing ever changes?

I do love complaining though.

The Spider

Ok everyone is shouting how unaffordable this is, lets see how unaffordable it is really. I moved to Dublin in 1995, I was earning buttons with a part time job, young enough at the time 21. I was earning I think 75 quid a week and paying 150 quid a month in rent, that 150 converts to 294.92 euro's, roughly 300.

Now where I lived was in a dodgy house in the dodgy north inner city so certainly not salubrious. I wanted to compare that cost to when I started out, so I did a search for a room share for at a maximum 300 a month.

So there's 78 rooms available at what I would consider 1995 rents in Dublin, so certainly not overpriced. Some of them are in a helluva lot better locations than where I lived and believe me when I say the rooms are way better than the one I had.

So there you go 78 rooms at 1995 prices, natural inflation means that prices should be higher so lets say that in a 20 year period prices have risen by 1 third (they haven't every other price within the economy has risen way more than that). So rooms under 400 euro come in at 330 available.

I rented a really ****ty basement apartment in 2002 for 1270 a month adjusted for inflation that basement apartment is now 1630 a month, and that's just inflation.

Link below for anyone interested in actually calculating costs now versus historic costs, to see if prices have actually risen as much as being talked about.

http://fxtop.com/en/inflation-calculator.php?A=300&C1=IEP&INDICE=IECPI2013&DD1=31&MM1=01&YYYY1=1995&DD2=04&MM2=09&YYYY2=2014&btnOK=Compute+actual+value

rosedream

drumswan wrote: »

Why do country folk always suggest spending money and creating jobs elsewhere to 'solve' Dublins issues?

Because people do still exist outside of Dublin, and could do with some new jobs and money happening in their area.

The_Conductor

In all honesty- and I am quite familiar with the Galway market- there are very few vacant properties within an easy commute of NUIG. Supply is in constraint- which is why rents have risen to the extent that they have. If you are talking about Oranmore- keep in mind its 12km from NUIG- which can take a half hour in the car (15 mins off peak).....

Also- I'd seriously dispute your assertion that there are large volumes of vacant properties in the area- a quick trawl of Daft.ie and Rent.ie shows 9 vacant properties in the Oranmore area, and 64 properties in the entire Galway county- the whole county- available to rent. So- I'm not sure where these vacant properties are that you're talking about.........

The_Conductor

rosedream wrote: »

Because people do still exist outside of Dublin, and could do with some new jobs and money happening in their area.

There is very much an 'us' and 'them' mentality.
Dublin is our only city of any relative size- and is where people tend to gravitate to.

However- far from it being the centre of activity that a lot of people assume- less than 1/3 of the civil service and 1/6 of the public sector- work in Dublin city or county.

It is a little ridiculous that in such small a country we practice parochial politics and insist on tearing lumps out of each other and cannibalizing our compatriots- when we should be looking at whats best for Ireland as a whole.

Connollacken

The_Conductor wrote: »

In all honesty- and I am quite familiar with the Galway market- there are very few vacant properties within an easy commute of NUIG. Supply is in constraint- which is why rents have risen to the extent that they have. If you are talking about Oranmore- keep in mind its 12km from NUIG- which can take a half hour in the car (15 mins off peak).....

Also- I'd seriously dispute your assertion that there are large volumes of vacant properties in the area- a quick trawl of Daft.ie and Rent.ie shows 9 vacant properties in the Oranmore area, and 64 properties in the entire Galway county- the whole county- available to rent. So- I'm not sure where these vacant properties are that you're talking about.........

Okay disregard Oranmore.. That clearly isn't the most accessible place, unless you were going to GMIT possibly, but even then still not too suitable. Although in saying that, there's a new Bus Eireann route that comes in from there every hour.

In relation to their being empty housing estates, I was referring to the estate just out past Circular Road. I'm not sure what the name of it is, but I know the one below it is Cnoc an Oir - It could even be part of it. The thing is, I'm not sure even if the estate was ever fully finished. There a small community of people that were campaigning (squatting) recently in these "ghost estates", trying to make the point that there were a huge amount of houses that were unfilled. Although I think they were talking about real homeless people, not students.

I'm not able to post the link to the article about it, but I could pm it to you if you haven't already read it