Water charges

Aber2012

Thus far it's not exactly clear who pays/registers for the charges, I am a landlord and recently received my registration pack for water ie , but can not find any information on whether I register myself (in which case the bill comes to me) or the tenants directly, or do the tenants register themselves?
Anyone have any info on this?

HeidiHeidi

Aber2012 wrote: »

Thus far it's not exactly clear who pays/registers for the charges, I am a landlord and recently received my registration pack for water ie , but can not find any information on whether I register myself (in which case the bill comes to me) or the tenants directly, or do the tenants register themselves?
Anyone have any info on this?

Here's your sister!

I too got a pack today which looks for all the world like I have to register..... but reading the booklet it's clear(ish) that the OCCUPANT of the property needs to register and is liable for the bills. But they need to provide the owners details (ie me) so that the bills will revert to me when they move out.

I rang the "helpline" to see if the tenant will get his own pack, and do I need to do anything with mine - but it wasn't very helpful, the fella on the phone was even more confused than me. Seemed to think I should have got a "letter" confirming that I own the property, nothing more. Sounded very puzzled when I said I'd got a whole application pack.

I'm waiting to see what, if anything, the tenant receives in the post, and am hoping that the Irish Water staff will get a bit more knowledgeable about their registration procedures!

Nothing required until October 31st, so plenty time for them/me to figure it out. Hopefully.

Aber2012

HeidiHeidi wrote: »

Here's your sister!

I too got a pack today which looks for all the world like I have to register..... but reading the booklet it's clear(ish) that the OCCUPANT of the property needs to register and is liable for the bills. But they need to provide the owners details (ie me) so that the bills will revert to me when they move out.

I rang the "helpline" to see if the tenant will get his own pack, and do I need to do anything with mine - but it wasn't very helpful, the fella on the phone was even more confused than me. Seemed to think I should have got a "letter" confirming that I own the property, nothing more. Sounded very puzzled when I said I'd got a whole application pack.

I'm waiting to see what, if anything, the tenant receives in the post, and am hoping that the Irish Water staff will get a bit more knowledgeable about their registration procedures!

Nothing required until October 31st, so plenty time for them/me to figure it out. Hopefully.

Exactly, it was just my first reaction when I read it today, I will contact tenants to see if they have received anything and hold tough until it's very clear! It's all a bit messy, surely if they register themselves at the address then similar to other utility bills there is no need for landlord involvement, but will wait and see, thanks

Gatling

Read somewhere, now Im open to correction on this .
Apparently if your tenants refuses to pay or can't .
They will then bill the landlord of property ,
I'm sure I read it somewhere here on boards

Grolschevik

You register for the place you're living in, the tenant gets a separate pack and registers for the place he's living in. Or so I would have thought.

If you got a pack, is it not for your primary residence? If not, maybe they don't have a record of a tenancy in place?

rubberdiddies

i also received a 'landlord pack' but its not entirely clear as to whats happening.

it says the tenants would have also received a pack that they should fill in, so not sure why i have to fill it in too or what happens if tenant doesnt pay etc.

im more concerned with how they had access to my details and know that i own another property. isn't Irish Water supposed to be a private company of sorts? Are they legally allowed access to that information?

I'm presuming the answer is yes, but im not 100%

L1011

Irish Water are state owned, they'd have been given access to whatever databases allowable for any other state owned firm.

Arbiter of Good Taste

I haven't received anything, either as landlord or for myself. Should I be concerned?

garhjw

Arbiter of Good Taste wrote: »

I haven't received anything, either as landlord or for myself. Should I be concerned?

I haven't received anything either as landlord or owner. I'm in D4. My father is in D14 and hasn't received anything either. I presume they are releasing packs in waves, possibly by postcode or some other way..

HeidiHeidi

I'm in Dublin as well.

When I spoke to the not-so-helpful chap on the helpline he said they'd be sending out correspondence all during September, so clearly I and the OP got some of the first ones.

It was addressed to me at my own home address, but clearly stated that it referred to the other property I own. I'm assuming they were given access to tax returns and/or PRTB data.

As I said, I'm going to give it a few weeks and see what else (if anything) I receive, and what (if anything) the tenant receives. And take it from there.

Danger Fourpence

I got the letter this week with application number and pin. The application form suggests I skip a number of sections that include water allowances but when I try to register online I get asked if I want to apply for water allowances. I have a private well. Do I need to register for these?

murphaph

Danger Fourpence wrote: »

I got the letter this week with application number and pin. The application form suggests I skip a number of sections that include water allowances but when I try to register online I get asked if I want to apply for water allowances. I have a private well. Do I need to register for these?

Do you have a septic tank as well? If you have a well and no mains supply and no connection to public sewer then you have nothing to do with Irish Water.

Danger Fourpence

murphaph wrote: »

Do you have a septic tank as well? If you have a well and no mains supply and no connection to public sewer then you have nothing to do with Irish Water.

I have my own water treatment unit. I was under them impression that even if you weren't connected to the public water supply and had your own water treatment that you still had to register to not be a customer?

The_Conductor

Danger Fourpence wrote: »

I have my own water treatment unit. I was under them impression that even if you weren't connected to the public water supply and had your own water treatment that you still had to register to not be a customer?

Correct.
Until such time as you make an official declaration to them stating you treat your own water, and have a septic tank or other sewage/seepage disposal system- you are presumed to be a customer.
Also, under the 2007 Act- they are supposed to inspect these systems- and its an offence to make a false declaration.

Daith

I'm not entirely sure what happens if myself and the housemate move out in Nov. I presume we would just pay to our move out date but the first bills aren't due to Jan.

Best give them a shout.

Danger Fourpence

The_Conductor wrote: »

Correct.
Until such time as you make an official declaration to them stating you treat your own water, and have a septic tank or other sewage/seepage disposal system- you are presumed to be a customer.
Also, under the 2007 Act- they are supposed to inspect these systems- and its an offence to make a false declaration.

Yeah that was my thinking too, but do I need to apply for an allowance then considering I'm not a customer? I'll just ring them tomorrow I think. Seems a little ridiculous that I have to go to the hassle of registering to tell them I'm not going to be a customer.

Linda15

I got my application pack today.. Apparently charges begin on 1st October but still no information on what charges to expect. They say the bill will come in January but no motif action of what date the payment is due. I'm sure most people can't afford an extra bill in January of all months

Linda15

My own small protest is that I am going to change my gas and electricity company because the one I am currently with is involved with the set up of the water charges. It's probably the only protest that can be made without running the risk of having your water supply reduced to a trickle

L1011

Linda15 wrote: »

My own small protest is that I am going to change my gas and electricity company because the one I am currently with is involved with the set up of the water charges. It's probably the only protest that can be made without running the risk of having your water supply reduced to a trickle

Rather pointless as they've sold the consumer retail arm to British Gas. But the same company anymore.

ted1

Linda15 wrote: »

My own small protest is that I am going to change my gas and electricity company because the one I am currently with is involved with the set up of the water charges. It's probably the only protest that can be made without running the risk of having your water supply reduced to a trickle

Different companies .

mauraf

Hey there

I got my 'landlord' pack yesterday as well - looking for PPS and details of the people who live in my rented property...which I obviously dont have.

I was just going to send onto the tenants and ask them to complete (they are on hols at the moment) and send back to the required address...

Seems an odd way of conducting business - anyone else any update on what their plan of action is?

Maura

Mrs OBumble

mauraf wrote: »

Hey there

I got my 'landlord' pack yesterday as well - looking for PPS and details of the people who live in my rented property...which I obviously dont have.

Obviously? How did you register the tenancy with the PRTB, then?

mauraf

Fully registered with PRTB - but I didnt hang onto any of the 'details' the tenants gave me with regard to PPS numbers.....

Mrs OBumble

In that case, you'll need to ask the tenants again.

(It's good practice to keep a copy of all paperwork you submit to official bodies).

ted1

Does the data protection act allow you to pass on the details of tenants?

The_Conductor

Mrs OBumble wrote: »

Obviously? How did you register the tenancy with the PRTB, then?

While the registration form asks for the tenants PPS numbers- they are not obligatory- and the PRTB (SWS) are happy enough to register the tenancy without them. There are a significant cohort of tenants who will not give landlords their PPS numbers under any circumstances- they changed the rule to reflect this- as the registration system was getting hopelessly gummed up.

Fkall

No PPS number, no rental.

Zamboni

ted1 wrote: »

Does the data protection act allow you to pass on the details of tenants?

This is a very important question that I do not see answered amongst all the other hullabaloo.

Irish Water would breach data protection legislation by not obtaining the data fairly and nor would it be used for the purpose it was collected by the landlord (i.e PTRB registration).


I still don't see where Irish Water are listed on the Register of Users for PPS numbers - although I'm getting old and my eyesight is getting bad and I would be obliged if somebody could point out that they are there?
They have no legal entitlement to use PPS numbers.
The question has been dodged by the PR lady (can't remember her name) in every interview.

http://www.welfare.ie/en/Pages/Personal-Public-Service-Number-Register-of-Users.aspx

I'm not against water charges in theory - but by god that is one serious financial black hole of a monolithic complex organisation funded by us morons.
It doesn't appear to be accountable to anyone.

The_Conductor

Meanwhile- Irish Water are in trouble after erroneously sending people's personal data to incorrect recipients- at issue are 6,329 letters sent to the owners of more than one property where other people's data were included in the letters........

I hate linking to TV3- but here goes: http://www.tv3.ie/news_sub_page.php?video_id=84271&locID=1.2.883

joeysoap

I received the information pack and had a read through it. Appears they are going to bill anyone who is not metered anyway in January regardless of usage ie they are going to estimate it based on the number of occupants based on your completed return. I don't see how this will stand up in court if they disconnected for non payment (reducted the water supply to a trickle). For all Irish Water know I could be in Spain or 2 months with no usage but still get billed for water I don't use? I can see why a familiy would complete the form and claim for children under 17, I can see why a single person would complete the form and claim he/she was living alone (the household allowance appears to be the same for single occupancy or multiple occupancy) but I can see no reason why a couple (or more) living in a house together would complete the form. Am I missing something. I pay my tv licence, I pay my property tax, I pay bin charges so no problem paying for something that is qualified but how can it be right to send out a bill in January for water used in Oct/Dec when I and Irish Water can have no idea what the actual usage is without a proper meter. If a court case was taken against Irish Water I don't see how a judge could find in their favour for non payment when they couldn't prove you used any water.

Victor

Zamboni wrote: »

I still don't see where Irish Water are listed on the Register of Users for PPS numbers

http://www.welfare.ie/en/Pages/Personal-Public-Service-Number-Register-of-Users.aspx

It's under "other".

http://www.welfare.ie/en/Pages/PPSN-Register-of-Users---Other-Users.aspx

An Foras Aiseanna Saothair (FÁS)
An tÁrd-Chláraitheoir (The General Registrar)
Central Applications Office
Central Statistics Office (CSO)
Coillte Teoranta
Companies Registration Office (CRO)
Courts Service
Enterprise Ireland
General Medical Services Payments Board
Health and Social Care Professionals Council (known as Coru)
The Higher Education Authority (An tUdaras um Ard-Oideachas)
Irish Prison Service (IPS)
Irish Water
...

http://www.welfare.ie/en/Pages/PPSN-Register-of-Users---Other-Users.aspx

Irish Water

The Social Welfare and Pensions Act 2014 contains an amendment to include 'Irish Water' as a specified body in Schedule 5 of the Social Welfare Consolidation Act, 2005 (as amended). This Legislation was enacted on the 17th of July 2014.

We have requested a Return from Irish Water for our website detailing how they use the PPS number and we would hope to have this updated on our website shortly.

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See: http://www.boards.ie/vbulletin/showpost.php?p=91772658&postcount=41