Horrible dog attack - are further laws required?

Twas Not

http://m.independent.ie/irish-news/child-model-cameron-10-was-lucky-not-to-lose-an-eye-in-vicious-dog-attack-30561585.html

Horrible attack by a husky, should greater penalties be introduced for owners of unmuzzled dogs off the lead that are on the restricted dogs list?

brianon

Twas Not wrote: »

...should greater penalties be introduced for owners of unmuzzled dogs off the lead that are on the restricted dogs list?

Are such laws enforced ... ever ?

How far would anyone have to go to find a dog off it's lead and no owner in sight ? How far would you have to go to find an unmuzzled dog that should be muzzled ? How far would you have to go to step in some dog sh*t ?

Not f'ing far.

Rommie

Since when are huskies on the restricted breeds list? To be fair, there are absolutely no details of what happened in that story, no background on the dog or its owners or an explanation of what actually happened. How do we know the child didn't kick the dog in the head beforehand? We don't. All it says is that he was attacked. Obviously enough it's a horrible thing to happen to anyone but until we know what actually happened, its a bit unfair to start punishing all dogs

cocker5

In my opinion NO dogs should be outside their owners property unsupervised... EVER. and I am a dog owner

I am sick to death of the irish attitude to alllowing their dogs to roam... apart from them sh*tting eveywhere, it can lead to such horrific incidents...

Unfair on the child and also on the dog :mad:

andreac

Huskies are not on the restricted breeds list.

salamanca22

The restricted breeds list is a farce anyway as evidenced in this situation. Any dog can cause injury to someone and not just those ones that society deems dangerous enough to be on a list somewhere because some people do not train the dogs correctly.

I wonder though what the moments before the attack entailed. If the dog did not show signs of aggression in the past was something done to aggravate it this time? Not condoning the horrific attack but I am just wondering if there is another side to this coin.

brianon

Rommie wrote: »

How do we know the child didn't kick the dog in the head beforehand? We don't.

Wow. Such BS. Let's say the kid kicked the dog. That make it somehow ok for the child to get mauled ?

Even if a kid did kick a dog. Surely the owner would have the dog under control/lead to stop such a mauling ?

A dog on a lead ? Ha. Not likely.

Tombo2001

Rommie wrote: »

Since when are huskies on the restricted breeds list? To be fair, there are absolutely no details of what happened in that story, no background on the dog or its owners or an explanation of what actually happened. How do we know the child didn't kick the dog in the head beforehand? We don't. All it says is that he was attacked. Obviously enough it's a horrible thing to happen to anyone but until we know what actually happened, its a bit unfair to start punishing all dogs

No details except a picture of a child with scars all over his face.

I have news for you: it doesnt matter if the child kicked the dog in the face.

This dog was not under control, when the law very clearly says it should be under control.

Dog owners flaunt the law all the time. Go to any park in the country and you will see heaps of people walking dogs without leads. You will see dog crap all over the place.

Its an attitude thing that SOME, NOT ALL dog owner things have......"its my dog, so that makes it ok".

Tombo2001

salamanca22 wrote: »

The restricted breeds list is a farce anyway as evidenced in this situation.

I'd agree with that. A jack russell thats bad tempered is far more dangerous than an alsatian thats been well trained.

OldNotWIse

brianon wrote: »

Wow. Such BS. Let's say the kid kicked the dog. That make it somehow ok for the child to get mauled ?

Even if a kid did kick a dog. Surely the owner would have the dog under control/lead to stop such a mauling ?

A dog on a lead ? Ha. Not likely.

There are plenty of dogs on leads, everywhere. I think you are suffering from an agenda induced willful blindness.

From: a dog owner who cleans her dog's sh1t and keeps her dog under control.

hidinginthebush

Tombo2001 wrote: »

I have news for you: it doesnt matter if the child kicked the dog in the face.

Except it does

Tombo2001

OldNotWIse wrote: »

There are plenty of dogs on leads, everywhere. I think you are suffering from an agenda induced willful blindness.

From: a dog owner who cleans her dog's sh1t and keeps her dog under control.

Hence my SOME, NOT ALL comment.

The are loads of dog owners who let their animals of the lead. That does not mean ALL, but there are certainly a lot of them.

As for the dog crap....I have my own theory on this, that a lot of elderly people who own dogs dont see anything wrong with letting them crap everywhere, they've done it this way all their lives and aint changing now. I know of several elderly people near me who let their dogs out to 'do their business' each night.

brianon

OldNotWIse wrote: »

There are plenty of dogs on leads, everywhere. I think you are suffering from an agenda induced willful blindness.

From: a dog owner who cleans her dog's sh1t and keeps her dog under control.

What's 'plenty' ? I walk to and from my daughters school everyday. I see dogs crapping with no owners. I see dogs crapping with owners. IMO (and from what I have seen), I'd guess about 50% of dog owners are responsible dog owners.

Is that plenty ?

Tombo2001

hidinginthebush wrote: »

Except it does

Well you explain that to the judge.

Rommie

brianon wrote: »

Wow. Such BS. Let's say the kid kicked the dog. That make it somehow ok for the child to get mauled ?

Even if a kid did kick a dog. Surely the owner would have the dog under control/lead to stop such a mauling ?

A dog on a lead ? Ha. Not likely.

I didn't saw it was okay for the child to get mauled, where did I say that?? What I'm saying it's unfair to immediately assume all dogs are going to attack kids because we have no idea of the circumstances surrounding this incident. Yes the owner is at fault for letting the dog escape, and I am also sick of unleashed dogs roaming around doing what they want, but I also wish people in this country would teach their kids what is right and wrong when it comes to animals. For example, not approaching or handling an unknown dog.

cocker5

Tombo2001 wrote: »

Hence my SOME, NOT ALL comment.

The are loads of dog owners who let their animals of the lead. That does not mean ALL, but there are certainly a lot of them.

As for the dog crap....I have my own theory on this, that a lot of elderly people who own dogs dont see anything wrong with letting them crap everywhere, they've done it this way all their lives and aint changing now. I know of several elderly people near me who let their dogs out to 'do their business' each night.

In fairness…. I know a number of people (myself excluded) mid 30’s and 40’s who let their dogs out for a “run” each day… and these same people all have kids that play on the green – it’s ridiculous really

ignorance knows no age limit im afraid

brianon

What I'm saying it's unfair to immediately assume all dogs are going to attack kids because we have no idea of the circumstances surrounding this incident.

I disagree. Any dog off a lease poses a threat to a child/adult.

Tombo2001

Rommie wrote: »

I didn't saw it was okay for the child to get mauled, where did I say that?? What I'm saying it's unfair to immediately assume all dogs are going to attack kids because we have no idea of the circumstances surrounding this incident. Yes the owner is at fault for letting the dog escape, and I am also sick of unleashed dogs roaming around doing what they want, but I also wish people in this country would teach their kids what is right and wrong when it comes to animals. For example, not approaching or handling an unknown dog.

What you did say is that if somehow found out 'the full facts', and that maybe the child provoked the dog, that the dog might be somehow exonerated and not to blame.

Which is complete BS.

Except for this one thing, you are completely right in that it is never the dogs fault ever, its the owners fault.

OldNotWIse

Blah blah all dogs are evil, blah blah the streets are swimming in dog faeces, all dog owners are irrespnsible, blah de dah. Wont someone please think of the children. A dog doesn't attack unless provoked. Keep your child away from my dog, keep your dog away from my child. Dog sh1t, dog sh1t, dog sh1t...

These threads all follow the exact same script.

Everybody gets angry.

Nobody accommodates another's view.

Nothing is ever achieved.

Rommie

Tombo2001 wrote: »

What you did say is that if somehow found out 'the full facts', and that maybe the child provoked the dog, that the dog might be somehow exonerated and not to blame.

Which is complete BS.

Except for this one thing, you are completely right in that it is never the dogs fault ever, its the owners fault.

'Since when are huskies on the restricted breeds list? To be fair, there are absolutely no details of what happened in that story, no background on the dog or its owners or an explanation of what actually happened. How do we know the child didn't kick the dog in the head beforehand? We don't. All it says is that he was attacked. Obviously enough it's a horrible thing to happen to anyone but until we know what actually happened, its a bit unfair to start punishing all dogs'

Is exactly what I said. Where does it say the dog would be exonerated if it was provoked?

OldNotWIse

brianon wrote: »

What's 'plenty' ? I walk to and from my daughters school everyday. I see dogs crapping with no owners. I see dogs crapping with owners. IMO (and from what I have seen), I'd guess about 50% of dog owners are responsible dog owners.

Is that plenty ?

Are we taking to inventing statistics now to suit our agenda? Where are you walking that you see dogs crapping everywhere you go??

Tombo2001

OldNotWIse wrote: »

Blah blah all dogs are evil, blah blah the streets are swimming in dog faeces, all dog owners are irrespnsible, blah de dah. Wont someone please think of the children. A dog doesn't attack unless provoked. Keep your child away from my dog, keep your dog away from my child. Dog sh1t, dog sh1t, dog sh1t...

These threads all follow the exact same script.

Everybody gets angry.

Nobody accommodates another's view.

Nothing is ever achieved.

Well thats true, but what are you going to do. I rang the Gardai twice when I saw large dogs wandering around parks without leads and owners not bothered to watch them. They never showed up, werent interested....

What do you suggest?

Tombo2001

Rommie wrote: »

'Since when are huskies on the restricted breeds list? To be fair, there are absolutely no details of what happened in that story, no background on the dog or its owners or an explanation of what actually happened. How do we know the child didn't kick the dog in the head beforehand? We don't. All it says is that he was attacked. Obviously enough it's a horrible thing to happen to anyone but until we know what actually happened, its a bit unfair to start punishing all dogs'

Is exactly what I said. Where does it say the dog would be exonerated if it was provoked?

How do we know the child didn't kick the dog in the head beforehand? We don't.

It is the direct follow-on from this comment, as interpreted by me and several other posters.

Rommie

Tombo2001 wrote: »

How do we know the child didn't kick the dog in the head beforehand? We don't.

It is the direct follow-on from this comment, as interpreted by me and several other posters.

Well if you had read the rest of my comment, you would see i said 'it's a bit unfair to start punishing all dogs'. What I obviously meant was that we don't know if the dog was provoked or not, so we don't know why it attacked. Assuming it just did and assuming other dogs just will is completely unfair.

brianon

OldNotWIse wrote: »

Are we taking to inventing statistics now to suit our agenda? Where are you walking that you see dogs crapping everywhere you go??

Inventing statistics ? I said IMO about 50%. Just from what I've seen in my experience. Let's say my guess is way off (it could well be). There's still WAY too many dogs roaming around either with no owner or an owner who doesn't think their dog is a threat to anyone.

Only yesterday I walked my daughter and her friend to school. We got just outside the estate and this dog starts growling at the kids and heading their way. The kids are terrified. I turn to confront the dog and the owner (who's about 50 yards away) shouts down ... "He's grand he won't bite". Sums pretty much most of my experiences with dog owners up nicely.

Ofc there are many responsible owners out there but imo and in my experience they are outnumbered by the irresponsible.

I live in a village outside of Limerick. Great little community. Regular particapants in tidy towns. The regular route to school is littered with dog crap. There are 5 or 6 strays in the village. Saw one do a nice dump there this morning.

Lovely sunny morning, birds singing, dogs dumping.

OldNotWIse

Tombo2001 wrote: »

Well thats true, but what are you going to do. I rang the Gardai twice when I saw large dogs wandering around parks without leads and owners not bothered to watch them. They never showed up, werent interested....

What do you suggest?

I never purported to have a solution to the packs of wild dogs and seas of sh1t in out streets, all I am saying is that bickering about it on boards tends to solve very little. I keep my dog under control. I clean up her sh1t (I think I have a poop bag in every pair of trousers I own!) and that's where my obligations end.

tbh I'm not really surprised the Gardai weren't interested. They likely had better things to be doing.

OldNotWIse

brianon wrote: »

Inventing statistics ? I said IMO about 50%. Just from what I've seen in my experience. Let's say my guess is way off (it could well be). There's still WAY too many dogs roaming around either with no owner or an owner who doesn't think their dog is a threat to anyone.

Only yesterday I walked my daughter and her friend to school. We got just outside the estate and this dog starts growling at the kids and heading their way. The kids are terrified. I turn to confront the dog and the owner (who's about 50 yards away) shouts down ... "He's grand he won't bite". Sums pretty much most of my experiences with dog owners up nicely.

Ofc there are many responsible owners out there but imo and in my experience they are outnumbered by the irresponsible.

I live in a village outside of Limerick. Great little community. Regular particapants in tidy towns. The regular route to school is littered with dog crap. There are 5 or 6 strays in the village. Saw one do a nice dump there this morning.

Lovely sunny morning, birds singing, dogs dumping.

You are clearly a very unfortunate individual then.

And also, at the risk of pedantry, if something occurs 50% of the time, it doesn't "outnumber" what happens, by default the other 50% of the time.

Pat Mustard

Politicians often call for new laws when something bad happens.

They often fail to look at the existing law.

It's a waste of time introducing new laws for everything, when the issues are already covered but the law isn't adequately enforced.

The laws are already there. It's an enforcement issue.

Tombo2001

OldNotWIse wrote: »

I never purported to have a solution to the packs of wild dogs and seas of sh1t in out streets, all I am saying is that bickering about it on boards tends to solve very little. I keep my dog under control. I clean up her sh1t (I think I have a poop bag in every pair of trousers I own!) and that's where my obligations end.

tbh I'm not really surprised the Gardai weren't interested. They likely had better things to be doing.

That there is the thing.

You mightn't think its important.

But I have to bring my kids home from the park when this happens. I cant let them run around when a dog I know nothing about is wandering around.

OldNotWise, try to see other people's point of view.

Pat Mustard

The local authority deals with stray dogs. Not the guards.

brianon

OldNotWIse wrote: »

You are clearly a very unfortunate individual then.

And also, at the risk of pedantry, if something occurs 50% of the time, it doesn't "outnumber" what happens, by default the other 50% of the time.

Thanks for the free maths lesson
I'll calm down a little and I'll just go back to my first post.

Who far would you need to travel to see a stray dog or a dog not properly supervised ?