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Horrible dog attack - are further laws required?

1246

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  • #92
    IvySlayer
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 17,188 ✭✭✭✭IvySlayer


    The Star says the child went to the pet a smaller dog and the Husky growled and the child went to pet the dog anyway?

    How many others paper reported on that?


  • #93
    DBB
    Moderators, Recreation & Hobbies Moderators Posts: 9,770 Mod ✭✭✭✭DBB


    IvySlayer wrote: »
    The Star says the child went to the pet a smaller dog and the Husky growled and the child went to pet the dog anyway?

    How many others paper reported on that?

    I read it that the little fella was petting the Husky, but when he turned to pet the other dog that was there, the Husky growled and then went for the child?
    The truth of the matter is that we'll never know the real truth... as far as I have read so far, the only witnesses were the little lad and his friend, and with absolutely no disrespect to either of them, it's unlikely they saw, or recognised a lot of what actually happened either, particularly in the moments leading up to the attack.
    There is a strange lack of information coming out about the whole incident, I wonder why? There's usually more information published after these incidents. It is also a real blight across the world that dogs are PTS so quickly after these incidents, so there is no chance for an assessment or medical exam to be carried out on the dog (prior to it being PTS), which might help us gain a better insight and understanding as to why these incidents happen. As it stands, we learn nothing from such events.
    Whatever happened, I hope the poor little fella recovers quickly and doesn't have any mental scars either :(


  • #94
    [Deleted User]
    Posts: 0 ✭ [Deleted User]


    I was talking to people who live in the estate about 30 minutes ago and every story is different :confused: One person said it jumped a wall and attacked a man and then attacked a child. Another said that the boy went into the back garden and got attacked. Another said that it escaped off the lead and it attacked. Also the attack lasted only a couple of seconds.


  • #95
    fiounnalbe
    Registered Users Posts: 90 ✭✭fiounnalbe


    I think many dog bites to people is down to the way dogs are perceived and treated in this country.

    Where I come from dogs are allowed everywhere, restaurants, public transport, pubs etc etc. They are very much part of the family and to own one is a big honour and ownership is taken very seriously. People take them out when they are very young in the arms before they finish their vaccinations so that they are well socalised with all aspects of life, it is just the norm over there. This means that we have very stable and social dogs who behave well when out and about. Going hand in hand with this is that in turn, because dogs have such a large presence everywhere, children are taught how to act responsibly around them e.g ask can you pet them before ever daring to touch them and taught warning signals of dogs that need space.

    Since moving to Ireland, I'm astounded at the number of children who run head first shouting doggy and at my dogs....and even more shocked at the amount of parents who just let this happen?? It's madness! Where is common sense??
    I'm also shocked at how many dogs are aggressive to other dogs here, barking furiously on leads when walking past another. And dogs that simply do not know manners and charge to say hello to other dogs, it's annoying no matter how "friendly" your dog is.

    (Obviously there are exceptions to the rules in both aspects, this is just my generalised opinion)

    I think you can bring in all the laws you like in the country, but until the attidue towards the dog in modern Ireland changes, I think there will always be horrific attacks like this young boy suffered.


  • #96
    Whispered
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 14,772 ✭✭✭✭Whispered


    I want to move to where you're from!!


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  • #97
    mosi
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 620 ✭✭✭mosi


    Deleted User wrote: »
    Again the dog has been put down before any investigation. We can only go on the word of a 4 year old. I grew up across the road from that place. Its a place were kids wander the streets until all hours. Its got drugs problems as well as murders.

    Reason i go on about the background, is because alot of these dog attacks are coming from an impoverished area that suffers with unemployment, drugs etc ....

    I don't live too far away and would walk by there regularly enough. I've seen how it is with kids wandering until all hours, and quite a bit of antisocial behaviour. I've seen dogs roaming there while there is one dog in particular that is a regular on the lost and found pages.

    Statistics from the UK show that people in impoverished are three times as likely to be attacked by a dog.

    http://www.theguardian.com/society/2014/apr/29/poverty-dog-attacks-link-combining-statistics
    http://www.mirror.co.uk/news/uk-news/dangerous-dog-attacks-rspca-warns-3452689

    This is evident in the most serious cases that have hit the media, both in the UK and here. There are probably a huge amount of factors interplaying here...a general lack of responsibility regarding children and dogs, caused by issues related to education, poverty, addiction etc. I've also noticed, from looking at online poundies, that they mostly seem to be picked up in these areas.
    All that said, I know so called "respectable" people who are irresponsible dog owners and I know people from deprived areas who are fantastic owners. However, there seems to be a higher incidence of attacks in poorer areas. If this is indeed a trend, then it needs to be taken seriously rather than just blaming the dog or the breed.
    DBB wrote: »
    It is also a real blight across the world that dogs are PTS so quickly after these incidents, so there is no chance for an assessment or medical exam to be carried out on the dog (prior to it being PTS), which might help us gain a better insight and understanding as to why these incidents happen. As it stands, we learn nothing from such events.

    This is a such an issue. It's like people are hardwired to PTS once a bite or attack has occurred, without establishing the facts or evaluating if the dog is a danger. It's so easy to just blame "a bad dog" and keep on repeating the same mistakes.
    Do you know if they do postmortems here in these cases? Or animal welfare assessments? I know in some of the recent high profile cases in the UK, subsequent court cases have utilised the findings and have found serious welfare issues as a result.


  • #98
    Tranceypoo
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,531 ✭✭✭Tranceypoo


    fiounnalbe wrote: »
    Where I come from dogs are allowed everywhere, restaurants, public transport, pubs etc etc. They are very much part of the family and to own one is a big honour and ownership is taken very seriously. People take them out when they are very young in the arms before they finish their vaccinations so that they are well socalised with all aspects of life, it is just the norm over there. This means that we have very stable and social dogs who behave well when out and about. Going hand in hand with this is that in turn, because dogs have such a large presence everywhere, children are taught how to act responsibly around them e.g ask can you pet them before ever daring to touch them and taught warning signals of dogs that need space.

    .

    Utopia!!


  • #99
    OldNotWIse
    Closed Accounts Posts: 12,468 ✭✭✭✭OldNotWIse


    DBB wrote: »
    I read it that the little fella was petting the Husky, but when he turned to pet the other dog that was there, the Husky growled and then went for the child?
    The truth of the matter is that we'll never know the real truth... as far as I have read so far, the only witnesses were the little lad and his friend, and with absolutely no disrespect to either of them, it's unlikely they saw, or recognised a lot of what actually happened either, particularly in the moments leading up to the attack.
    There is a strange lack of information coming out about the whole incident, I wonder why? There's usually more information published after these incidents. It is also a real blight across the world that dogs are PTS so quickly after these incidents, so there is no chance for an assessment or medical exam to be carried out on the dog (prior to it being PTS), which might help us gain a better insight and understanding as to why these incidents happen. As it stands, we learn nothing from such events.
    Whatever happened, I hope the poor little fella recovers quickly and doesn't have any mental scars either :(


    Good point, hadn't considered this. Distemper can cause this level of aggression afaik?


  • #100
    DBB
    Moderators, Recreation & Hobbies Moderators Posts: 9,770 Mod ✭✭✭✭DBB


    OldNotWIse wrote: »
    Good point, hadn't considered this. Distemper can cause this level of aggression afaik?

    Aggression is not a symptom of distemper that I'm aware of, as the disease makes the dog too sick to mount an aggressive response. No doubt there are exceptions, but that's all they are.


  • #101
    OldNotWIse
    Closed Accounts Posts: 12,468 ✭✭✭✭OldNotWIse


    DBB wrote: »
    Aggression is not a symptom of distemper that I'm aware of, as the disease makes the dog too sick to mount an aggressive response. No doubt there are exceptions, but that's all they are.

    It can be:
    http://www.buzzle.com/articles/distemper-in-dogs-symptoms.html

    A symptom is a symptom, regardless of frequency of occurence. All possibilities should be looked at - there are very few diseases where the "patient" will tick all the boxes, so to speak. But, as you said sadly there is never any chance for tests to be carried out anyway :(


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  • #102
    DBB
    Moderators, Recreation & Hobbies Moderators Posts: 9,770 Mod ✭✭✭✭DBB


    OldNotWIse wrote: »
    It can be:
    http://www.buzzle.com/articles/distemper-in-dogs-symptoms.html

    A symptom is a symptom, regardless of frequency of occurence. All possibilities should be looked at - there are very few diseases where the "patient" will tick all the boxes, so to speak.

    You found an article on one website, written by a non-vet, out of all the veterinary sites that don't list aggression as a symptom of distemper, to prove your point that distemper, a rather uncommon disease in Ireland, may have caused an adult dog, bearing in mind that this uncommon disease is most likely to affect puppies not adults, to bite a child?
    I have no idea why someone would pick distemper out of a long, long list of diseases and infections that dogs can get, as their first port of call when trying to find a medical explanation for why a dog would display aggression.


  • #103
    OldNotWIse
    Closed Accounts Posts: 12,468 ✭✭✭✭OldNotWIse


    I was in Brazil with the OH a number of years ago and one of the little towns we stayed in had a wonderful approach to dogs much like the one described above. I have a lovely photograph somewhere that I took on this really old, cobbled street with little cafes and clothes stores, of a GSD type lying on a rug in the doorway of a clothes shop. You can see a rial of designer clothes behind him, and part of a shelf with beautiful shoes, and then him on a rug that the shop owner had clearly put out for him. It was beautiful. In Ireland people would be up in arms, gabbing on about hygiene and safety and calling the pound. We think we have a lesser problem than places like Brazil wrt stray dogs because there aren't as many wandering the streets but the reality is our problem is just more sanitised. We still have indiscriminate breeders and people unwilling to spay/neuter and a general overpopulation - we are just better at sweeping them up off the street and euthanaising. The strays I saw there were not being bothered by thugs or shoed away. People gave scraps and restaurant/shop owners tolerated them and there wa very much a live and let live approach :)


  • #104
    borderlinemeath
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 5,340 ✭✭✭borderlinemeath


    Any illness or pain can cause unexplained aggression, it makes the dog more tense and wary. I had a dog here that has visited loads of times, never a problem, then on one visit he was a bit tetchy, then had a go at another dog for what seemed no reason only she ran past him. There was no limping, he wasn't off his food, although he was the type of dog that he was never that into food anyway, he didn't seem to be in pain when I had a look at him but then I had a look in his mouth and he had a big lump out of one of his teeth :(. It seemed fairly recent there wasn't a huge amount of food staining compared to his other teeth so I said it to his owner when he was collected. Turns out he was in pain and had to get the tooth extracted.


  • #105
    OldNotWIse
    Closed Accounts Posts: 12,468 ✭✭✭✭OldNotWIse


    DBB wrote: »
    You found an article on one website, written by a non-vet, out of all the veterinary sites that don't list aggression as a symptom of distemper, to prove your point that distemper, a rather uncommon disease in Ireland, may have caused an adult dog, bearing in mind that this uncommon disease is most likely to affect puppies not adults, to bite a child?
    I have no idea why someone would pick distemper out of a long, long list of diseases and infections that dogs can get, as their first port of call when trying to find a medical explanation for why a dog would display aggression.

    It was an example. Aggression is a symptom of distemper. An uncommon one? Yes. And I never claimed that this may have been an operating factor in the case at hand so I would appreciate if you refrain from suggesting that I did.

    Our previous dog had a genetic condition that took almost a year to be diagnosed because of vets who were unwilling (or incapable) of looking beyond their noses for an alternative explanation. In the end, a simple DNA swab sent over to the US confirmed the disease I had suggested all along. Its not always good to assume there is an obvious cause for something and dismiss any possible alternative just because its less likely.


  • #106
    DBB
    Moderators, Recreation & Hobbies Moderators Posts: 9,770 Mod ✭✭✭✭DBB


    Edited
    OldNotWise, I don't know why you even brought distemper into this discussion, because it's irrelevant. Of all the conclusions in all the world that an expert eye could draw for why dogs bite people, distemper would be at the bottom of a list of hundreds. As I said above, aggression as a symptom of distemper would be the exception.
    Suffice to say, and bearing in mind the pm conversation we had prior to you bringing the subject of distemper up here, that's all I'm saying on this subject to you, as once again this thread is going off-topic.

    @borderlinemeath, one of the reasons aggression is not a particularly likely symptom of distemper is because the disease is, when it gets to the neurological stage, extremely debilitating, making the dog too sick to be bothered with aggression.


  • #107
    muddypaws
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 3,610 ✭✭✭muddypaws


    borderlinemeath wrote: »
    Any illness or pain can cause unexplained aggression, it makes the dog more tense and wary. I had a dog here that has visited loads of times, never a problem, then on one visit he was a bit tetchy, then had a go at another dog for what seemed no reason only she ran past him. There was no limping, he wasn't off his food, although he was the type of dog that he was never that into food anyway, he didn't seem to be in pain when I had a look at him but then I had a look in his mouth and he had a big lump out of one of his teeth :(. It seemed fairly recent there wasn't a huge amount of food staining compared to his other teeth so I said it to his owner when he was collected. Turns out he was in pain and had to get the tooth extracted.

    I adopted a dog from the RSPCA years ago, a big rottie cross. They said he wasn't good with other dogs, but when I brought my two bitches to meet him, he was fine with them. However, he was very, very dog aggressive to other dogs. He then had a huge fight with another dog and lost one of his canine teeth. The change in that dog was unreal once that tooth came out. He was so placid and friendly, I used to be able to walk him off lead with no problems, he never showed any aggression to another dog after that, was a huge teddy bear. So yes, I would urge anyone that sees a change in a dog's behaviour like that to get their teeth checked out while the vet is checking for any medical issues. Mowgli could have been put to sleep just for toothache.


  • #108
    OldNotWIse
    Closed Accounts Posts: 12,468 ✭✭✭✭OldNotWIse


    DBB wrote: »
    Edited
    OldNotWise, I don't know why you even brought distemper into this discussion, because it's irrelevant. Of all the conclusions in all the world that an expert eye could draw for why dogs bite people, distemper would be at the bottom of a list of hundreds. As I said above, aggression as a symptom of distemper would be the exception.
    Suffice to say, and bearing in mind the pm conversation we had prior to you bringing the subject of distemper up here, that's all I'm saying on this subject to you, as once again this thread is going off-topic.

    @borderlinemeath, one of the reasons aggression is not a particularly likely symptom of distemper is because the disease is, when it gets to the neurological stage, extremely debilitating, making the dog too sick to be bothered with aggression.

    In your opinion it is irrelevant. In my opinion it is relevant. Opinions are subjective and may differ. I made the point because it is a possibility when aggression is displayed - that is all. A possibility. I have already conceded that said possibility is remote.

    I think it very unprofessional of you to allude to a pm conversation on a thread and I also question the point of hashing it up for everyone to see. My point wrt distemper was made in a reasonable and civilised manner and I do not understand why you appear to have a problem with this. If I have said something offensive then I apologise but I do not see where this may be. Thank you.


  • #109
    muddypaws
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 3,610 ✭✭✭muddypaws


    And of course now we have the knee jerk reaction. Two phone calls and 3 messages today asking me to take in unwanted sibes and malamutes. :(


  • #110
    OldNotWIse
    Closed Accounts Posts: 12,468 ✭✭✭✭OldNotWIse


    muddypaws wrote: »
    And of course now we have the knee jerk reaction. Two phone calls and 3 messages today asking me to take in unwanted sibes and malamutes. :(

    Why? :confused::(


  • #111
    muddypaws
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 3,610 ✭✭✭muddypaws


    We've recently had a baby ....

    We have kids .....

    I don't trust him anymore .......


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  • #112
    OldNotWIse
    Closed Accounts Posts: 12,468 ✭✭✭✭OldNotWIse


    muddypaws wrote: »
    We've recently had a baby ....

    We have kids .....

    I don't trust him anymore .......

    :( Poor dogs. Are you taking cats? (only joking :D) - I have 8! All rescues :rolleyes:


  • #113
    muddypaws
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 3,610 ✭✭✭muddypaws


    OldNotWIse wrote: »
    :( Poor dogs. Are you taking cats? (only joking :D) - I have 8! All rescues :rolleyes:

    Lol cats and huskies, hmmmmmmm. I have one cat, he lives in the non dog end of the house, behind a locked door. :P


  • #114
    SoapMcTavish
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 485 ✭✭SoapMcTavish


    I've got a Bichon and 3 rescue cats. The dog ( female ) mounts and humps the eldest cat ( male ). Thats about as aggressive as she gets .... very funny to watch.

    Dog is Poppy, cat is Percy ... so Poppy pumps Percy .... :)


  • #115
    dodderangler
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 9,204 ✭✭✭dodderangler


    OldNotWIse wrote: »
    :( Poor dogs. Are you taking cats? (only joking :D) - I have 8! All rescues :rolleyes:

    Jesus would you not just get a snake??
    Won't seem as crazy than someone with 8 cats


  • #116
    OldNotWIse
    Closed Accounts Posts: 12,468 ✭✭✭✭OldNotWIse


    dodderangler wrote: »
    Jesus would you not just get a snake??
    Won't seem as crazy than someone with 8 cats


    Eugh no :(


  • #117
    muddypaws
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 3,610 ✭✭✭muddypaws


    dodderangler wrote: »
    Jesus would you not just get a snake??
    Won't seem as crazy than someone with 8 cats

    So now may not be the time to mention I actually have 12 dogs? :p:eek:


  • #118
    Hooked
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 2,814 ✭✭✭Hooked


    muddypaws wrote: »
    And of course now we have the knee jerk reaction. Two phone calls and 3 messages today asking me to take in unwanted sibes and malamutes. :(

    Christ MP... How do you put up with it!

    Just flicked thru the 'star' and the 'sun' there in the staff canteen. On one it's front page news.

    One minute it's a husky, the next paragraph it's 'reportedly' a husky and further down its suddenly a 'husky type' dog.

    Oh... And the Garda reported that the smaller dog was being petted, so the bigger dog got jealous, and attacked. Professional behaviourists now are they?

    And did the vet responsible for killing the dog not confirm its breed for these rags...

    Was just talking to my fiancée there... Today's walk did not go well.

    Christ almighty!!!


  • #119
    OldNotWIse
    Closed Accounts Posts: 12,468 ✭✭✭✭OldNotWIse


    muddypaws wrote: »
    So now may not be the time to mention I actually have 12 dogs? :p:eek:

    I'll see your 12 dogs and raise you 8 cats, an incoming stray and a JRT :P


  • #120
    Nody
    Moderators, Category Moderators, Arts Moderators, Business & Finance Moderators, Entertainment Moderators, Society & Culture Moderators Posts: 18,326 CMod ✭✭✭✭Nody


    muddypaws wrote: »
    So now may not be the time to mention I actually have 12 dogs? :p:eek:
    But how do you ensure you stay the Alpha dog with that many dogs? Do you push them all over one after another or simply bring out a zap collar and randomly zap them show them that you're the boss?




    Yes I'm joking


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  • #121
    muddypaws
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 3,610 ✭✭✭muddypaws


    Nody wrote: »
    But how do you ensure you stay the Alpha dog with that many dogs? Do you push them all over one after another or simply bring out a zap collar and randomly zap them show them that you're the boss?




    Yes I'm joking

    Lots of alpha rolling and biting of ears :p Actually, its usually my ears that get nibbled by these vicious huskies, as they lie across my shoulders, along the back of the sofa!


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