Viewing access rights?

amorgan · 04-09-2014 4:26pm #1

hi there.

i've just entered the last month of my lease and as the rent is increasing, i am not renewing for another year. i've just been told by the letting agent that he wants access this saturday for 2 hours for viewings. this seems unreasonably short notice. can anyone let me know my rights in this situation? it's less than 48 hours away and i won't be available at that time. there doesn't appear to be any provisions for this in the lease, but it's a fairly standard lease. all advice welcome, thanks!

salamanca22 · 04-09-2014 4:31pm

amorgan wrote: »

hi there.

i've just entered the last month of my lease and as the rent is increasing, i am not renewing for another year. i've just been told by the letting agent that he wants access this saturday for 2 hours for viewings. this seems unreasonably short notice. can anyone let me know my rights in this situation? it's less than 48 hours away and i won't be available at that time. there doesn't appear to be any provisions for this in the lease, but it's a fairly standard lease. all advice welcome, thanks!

There are no provisions for landlords or estate agents to demand viewing times of a property that is rented out.

You can refuse any and all entry from third parties except for your landlord when an agreed upon time for an inspection has come.

Tell the estate agent that you will not be allowing anyone into the house as it is not a good time for you. Do not tell them that the apartment will be vacant as it has happened before that landlords have come anyway and showed the apartment whilst the tenant was not there and without permission.

You can then tell them when they are allowed to have viewing that is okay by your schedule or you can tell them that there will be no viewings at all while you are a tenant in the property. It#s up to you.

amorgan · 04-09-2014 4:36pm

salamanca22 wrote: »

There are no provisions for landlords or estate agents to demand viewing times of a property that is rented out.

You can refuse any and all entry from third parties except for your landlord when an agreed upon time for an inspection has come.

Tell the estate agent that you will not be allowing anyone into the house as it is not a good time for you. Do not tell them that the apartment will be vacant as it has happened before that landlords have come anyway and showed the apartment whilst the tenant was not there and without permission.

You can then tell them when they are allowed to have viewing that is okay by your schedule or you can tell them that there will be no viewings at all while you are a tenant in the property. It#s up to you.

thank you for that, great to know there's a bit of power for the tenant in these situations! it was implied to me by the letting agent that there wasn't an option, i'm relieved to hear otherwise.

salamanca22 · 04-09-2014 4:38pm

amorgan wrote: »

thank you for that, great to know there's a bit of power for the tenant in these situations! it was implied to me by the letting agent that there wasn't an option, i'm relieved to hear otherwise.

If they insist that they can force viewings on the property tell them that you will be referring the case to the prtb. They will then back down as they know they cannot win.

Arbiter of Good Taste · 04-09-2014 4:41pm

salamanca22 wrote: »

If they insist that they can force viewings on the property tell them that you will be referring the case to the prtb. They will then back down as they know they cannot win.

Overkill?

salamanca22 · 04-09-2014 4:43pm

Arbiter of Good Taste wrote: »

Overkill?

Not at all. That is what the prtb is there for. If they want to break tenancy law by forcing viewings on a property against the will of the tenant then the PRTB is the logical step in rectifying the situation. In fact since this is an agent I would also be putting in a complaint with their own regulator.

garhjw · 04-09-2014 6:34pm

OP, go back to the estate agent with a time which is convenient for you to accommodate viewings.

I don't think there is a need to be as militant as suggested in other posts

salamanca22 · 04-09-2014 6:35pm

garhjw wrote: »

OP, go back to the estate agent with a time which is convenient for you to accommodate viewings.

I don't think there is a need to be as militant as suggested in other posts

I would usually agree except in a case like this when the estate agent tries to force the viewings.

TheDriver · 04-09-2014 6:57pm

Why be so against it once its in the spirit of fair play?? Imagine if they get sticky about every penny of your deposit??

L1011 · 04-09-2014 7:08pm

TheDriver wrote: »

Why be so against it once its in the spirit of fair play?? Imagine if they get sticky about every penny of your deposit??

PRTB for that also. Tenants should not, ever, be in fear of making sure the landlord complies with their requirements.

ted1 · 04-09-2014 7:14pm

MYOB wrote: »

PRTB for that also. Tenants should not, ever, be in fear of making sure the landlord complies with their requirements.

Tenants should also be reasonable and not act like dicks. People are so fast to send people to the PRTB for the littlest reason.
People should use common sense and deal with issues like adults. No need to go running to the teacher.

Wabbit Ears · 04-09-2014 7:19pm

teds on the money, PTRB is a last resort, not a stick to beat landlords/letting agents with!

Just arrange with the letting agent for a time that suits you and make sure that its clearly stated that anyone viewing the house must be accompanied at all times, No Free roaming viewings!

Snake · 04-09-2014 7:20pm

I wouldn't want to be put out of my house for 2 hours either... Some strangers walking around my living space

Marcusm · 04-09-2014 9:20pm

amorgan wrote: »

hi there.

i've just entered the last month of my lease and as the rent is increasing, i am not renewing for another year. i've just been told by the letting agent that he wants access this saturday for 2 hours for viewings. this seems unreasonably short notice. can anyone let me know my rights in this situation? it's less than 48 hours away and i won't be available at that time. there doesn't appear to be any provisions for this in the lease, but it's a fairly standard lease. all advice welcome, thanks!

As others have said, you are under no obligation at all to facilitate viewings. However, if you are willing to permit them, I would do so against a pre viewing inspection and a written commitment to return the deposit in full. The alternative for most landlords is a void period of some sort. Better to come to an agreement that works for you all, if you are willing to consider viewings at all.

L1011 · 04-09-2014 9:42pm

Wabbit Ears wrote: »

teds on the money, PTRB is a last resort, not a stick to beat landlords/letting agents with!!

When there's veiled threats of "let us abuse you or we keep your cash", that is the time for the PRTB; and that's what I was quoting.

Arbiter of Good Taste · 05-09-2014 1:12pm

People complain about how long it takes for the PRTB to act - maybe it's because people are treating it as a surrogate mommy for every single vexatious complaint.

Step back a minute

Is the agent correct to demand viewings against your wishes? No. But what value will you get from the PRTB, considering you only have a month left in your lease.

What is the problem with being accommodating? Just being a nice person? To arrange a mutually agreeable time with the EA?

And frankly a landlord can be sticky about the deposit if it complies with the law.

Arbiter of Good Taste · 05-09-2014 1:13pm

MYOB wrote: »

When there's veiled threats of "let us abuse you or we keep your cash", that is the time for the PRTB; and that's what I was quoting.

That was not implied at all.

A LL might be more inclined to let, say, a few broken mugs or missing cutlery slide when dealing with an accommodating tenant. If the tenant was a d!ck, not so much.

foggy_lad · 05-09-2014 1:37pm

Arbiter of Good Taste wrote: »

That was not implied at all.

A LL might be more inclined to let, say, a few broken mugs or missing cutlery slide when dealing with an accommodating tenant. If the tenant was a d!ck, not so much.

Those items would be covered under general wear and tear, cutlery goes missing and mugs get broken during a tenancy just as carpets and floors get worn and walls get a bit grubby and will not look like new even after a bit of a wash at the end of the tenancy.

Why should a tenant be all nice when the Landlord is being a Cnut and threatening to withhold a deposit without good reason??

whippet · 05-09-2014 2:30pm

foggy_lad wrote: »

Those items would be covered under general wear and tear, cutlery goes missing and mugs get broken during a tenancy just as carpets and floors get worn and walls get a bit grubby and will not look like new even after a bit of a wash at the end of the tenancy.

Why should a tenant be all nice when the Landlord is being a Cnut and threatening to withhold a deposit without good reason??

what is wear and tear about cutlery going missing and mugs getting broken? That is theft/loss/damages from where I look at it. From your posting history Foggy you are one for the hard and fast rule .. apart from examples when it suits your argument.

The OP has declined the offer of extending the lease in the property the LL isn't turfing him out ... let the EA show the property rather than just being pedantic for pedantic's sake.

But it this way; if you are a stubborn git about a the viewing the chances are the LL will look for and deduct front he deposit just about anything they are entitled to. However, if you are accommodating and allow the LL get a new tenant in without too much of a vacancy by facilitating viewings i'm sure they will ignore the little things that may otherwise be deductible.

amorgan · 05-09-2014 3:46pm

thanks for all the input everyone. at the moment, the EA is trying to elbow in viewings as if they are standard as part of the lease, but isn't trying to force them. it's more of an introducing them as if they're standard practice. i'm all for keeping things sweet as far as deposit goes, i don't want to burn bridges unnecessarily. i think marcusm's comment regarding a pre-viewing inspection and guaranteed return of deposit sounds like a smart option. once it's in writing with limited viewings, all parties should be reasonably happy?

i do appreciate the hard line view of getting the PRTB involved, but really would rather avoid them as the delays are enormous and i kinda view them as a last point of contact once reason has been abandoned by the other party!

L1011 · 05-09-2014 3:51pm

Arbiter of Good Taste wrote: »

That was not implied at all.

Yes, it was - nothing in that about cups, just a general vague threat that a landlord might withhold money if you didn't bend over backwards for their demands at incredibly short notice.

NGC999888 · 05-09-2014 6:59pm

With landlords now calling 2 or 3 previous landlords for references as well as your current one imagine the conversation.

Hi ..... Do you know amorgan.

Yes lovely fella, he rented from me a couple of years ago.

And did you have any problems with him like late rent etc.

No, he always paid rent on time, but the only time he really got my goat up was when i was trying to re-let when he was leaving. He didnt cooperate with viewing during his notice period, as he was entitled, but it cost me vacant time, which cost me money and it was kind of was a nuisance for both myself and the agent.

Oh. I see. Well i assume i'll be re-letting when he decides to move out too. I know he isnt legally required to help out, but that wouldnt be good at all for me if he had that attitude. Probably better I knock that one on the head and go with another person whos previous landlords have been delighted with all aspects of their tenancy. Lovely lad im sure, but Im sure he'll find somewhere where a landlord is happy with that situation.

Bidd · 05-09-2014 8:51pm

First time renter-signing the lease next week. I trawled the threads on here looking for info - which I have to say a huge "thank you" to all! Received copy of the lease today - bog standard from what I've read on here and fine by me. It says:

"3.31 Within the last 1 month of the tenancy to permit the Landlord, or any person authorised by the Landlord or the Landlord's Agent at reasonable hours of the day or night, to enter and view the property with prospective Tenants or purchasers."

I've also sold property and the agent/s only give you 24 hours notice re viewings.

athtrasna · 05-09-2014 8:53pm

Bidd wrote: »

First time renter-signing the lease next week. I trawled the threads on here looking for info - which I have to say a huge "thank you" to all! Received copy of the lease today - bog standard from what I've read on here and fine by me. It says:

"3.31 Within the last 1 month of the tenancy to permit the Landlord, or any person authorised by the Landlord or the Landlord's Agent at reasonable hours of the day or night, to enter and view the property with prospective Tenants or purchasers."

I've also sold property and the agent/s only give you 24 hours notice re viewings.

That clause should agree a notice period. At the moment it's pretty much a carte blanche to enter at any time without notice

Bidd · 05-09-2014 9:03pm

Thanks for the advice. I'll ask the Agent to change it

womandriver · 05-09-2014 10:41pm

Bidd wrote: »

First time renter-signing the lease next week. I trawled the threads on here looking for info - which I have to say a huge "thank you" to all! Received copy of the lease today - bog standard from what I've read on here and fine by me. It says:

"3.31 Within the last 1 month of the tenancy to permit the Landlord, or any person authorised by the Landlord or the Landlord's Agent at reasonable hours of the day or night, to enter and view the property with prospective Tenants or purchasers."

I've also sold property and the agent/s only give you 24 hours notice re viewings.

That clause is not legally binding, you can not sign your rights away with a clause like that. You are entitled to peaceful enjoyment of the property FR the entire duration of your lease, final month included.

Carawaystick · 06-09-2014 3:46am

A tenant can always hang fetish porn while viewings are to take place, or play audio recordings of porn, or other things a person could do inside their house, if they owned their own home.

Arbiter of Good Taste · 06-09-2014 8:55am

MYOB wrote: »

Yes, it was - nothing in that about cups, just a general vague threat that a landlord might withhold money if you didn't bend over backwards for their demands at incredibly short notice.

Whatever. Read whatever you want into it.

deirdremf · 06-09-2014 9:15am

Bidd wrote: »

Thanks for the advice. I'll ask the Agent to change it

I wouldn't bother - in my experience, contracts will not be changed, it's a standard contract, and they are unlikely to put themselves out for your benefit.

Rather when you're in, write a note to the letting agent and tell them that you understand that the clause is has no standing in law. Get advice from the PRTB or Citizens Information on the matter if in doubt.

Or, when the time comes, just make sure that any viewings are by agreement and at a time that suits yourself.

Also if possible, I'd advise you to change the lock on any entrances so that they cannot get in without your permission. There is likely a clause against this too, but short of a genuine emergency, the only way they will find out is if try to use their key to get in without permission, which would of course be illegal.

ted1 · 06-09-2014 9:35am

womandriver wrote: »

That clause is not legally binding, you can not sign your rights away with a clause like that. You are entitled to peaceful enjoyment of the property FR the entire duration of your lease, final month included.

I wouldn't completely agree with you and if it came up on court I doubt a judge would to.

deirdremf · 06-09-2014 9:42am

"I wouldn't completely agree" "I doubt"

You wouldn't be too sure about what you've written would you?
I'd say the PRTB would be able to set you right there.
Or just a little read of the relevant law. IIRC, clauses like that are dismissed by the act, the tenant is allowed greater rights by agreement, but not lesser rights.

Viewing access rights?

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