Residents at Athlone asylum seekers centre refusing to eat

Crann na Beatha

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Augmerson

Some of those people have been in the Direct Provision system for years. What is that costing the government? I'd imagine all of them just want to get out, get a home, find work, move on with their lives. A family member teaches one lad from Africa in one of her classes. Lovely lad, very respectful, always does his work. Lives in one of these places. It must be depressing as ****.

Maybe that's the point. Make it so depressing and hard that people won't want to come here?

Tokyo

Wouldn't mind seeing the stats on "escaped from conflict"? My guess is, those that have actually come from a place where their lives were in constant danger, and people were dropping around them from starvation, hunger striking is probably the last thing on their minds...

Molester Stallone II

If I go on hunger strike will the gubberment look after me too!

Augmerson

Molester Stallone II wrote: »

If I go on hunger strike will the gubberment look after me too!

Actually yeah I think the emergency services would have a duty to keep you alive?

Crann na Beatha

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Crann na Beatha

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skyhighflyer

You can't throw people in a camp and treat them like animals, which is effectively what's happening. This is a separate question from whether or not someone's asylum claim is genuine.

I'd like if my tax money wasn't being used to house asylum seekers for years but I'd prefer even more if people who are stuck in these centres were allowed to work and *pay* tax rather than absorb it.

What needs to be done is to speed up the processing of applications so that those who genuinely need asylum are granted it and non-genuine applications refused. In the meantime, it wouldn't hurt to treat those waiting with a bit of decency and respect.

punisher5112

skyhighflyer wrote: »

You can't throw people in a camp and treat them like animals, which is effectively what's happening. This is a separate question from whether or not someone's asylum claim is genuine.

I'd like if my tax money wasn't being used to house asylum seekers for years but I'd prefer even more if people who are stuck in these centres were allowed to work and *pay* tax rather than absorb it.

What needs to be done is to speed up the processing of applications so that those who genuinely need asylum are granted it and non-genuine applications refused. In the meantime, it wouldn't hurt to treat those waiting with a bit of decency and respect.

Where do you plan on housing them?

They will never integrate with the Irish and sure the way this island is going there is nearly nothing irish left about it.


Rents are crazy even to the point ordinary hard workers can no longer afford it and have to move out of Dublin and other towns so as to keep a roof over their heads.

humanji

Okay, I've had to delete several posts and have moved it over to Politics. Please note the forum charter.

skyhighflyer

punisher5112 wrote: »

Where do you plan on housing them?

They will never integrate with the Irish and sure the way this island is going there is nearly nothing irish left about it.


Rents are crazy even to the point ordinary hard workers can no longer afford it and have to move out of Dublin and other towns so as to keep a roof over their heads.

If they get jobs they can pay for housing like you and me do? I figure I'm already paying for housing for vast numbers of Irish people who've never worked a day in their lives so I wouldn't mind paying to temporarily house a genuine asylum seeker who's looking for work.

gctest50

Augmerson wrote: »

Some of those people have been in the Direct Provision system for years. What is that costing the government? .....

someone is making plenty

Currently, the average PPPD rate for direct provision centres is €29.49

while the same contract rate for State-owned centres averages at €15.50.

As at 8 June 2014, there were 4,353 persons availing of direct provision accommodation and supports in 34 accommodation centres across 16 counties. The expenditure outturn for the accommodation costs incurred by RIA in the last five years is as follows:
Year Outturn
2013 €55.2m
2012 €62.3m
2011 €69.5m
2010 €79m
2009 €86.5m


http://www.nascireland.org/campaign-for-change/direct-provision/pq-direct-provision-expenditure-annual-cost/

johnnyskeleton

mike_ie wrote: »

Wouldn't mind seeing the stats on "escaped from conflict"? My guess is, those that have actually come from a place where their lives were in constant danger, and people were dropping around them from starvation, hunger striking is probably the last thing on their minds...

What if they are gay and come from a part of wedt africa where it is illegal to be gay, or they believe in democracy for their native Iran. The problem is that they cant live openly in their coubtry of origin and then they come to ireland and find themselves stuck in a system that doesnt allow them to have any self worth and limited freedom while it takes yesrs for their claims to be resolved or their cases to be heard? So you flee one oppressive state to a supposedly liberal democracy and are told "heres basic food and shelter, dont make a fuss, just be glad youre not in a hell hole where people are dying of starvation or armed conflict"?

AlekSmart

punisher5112 wrote: »

Where do you plan on housing them?

They will never integrate with the Irish and sure the way this island is going there is nearly nothing irish left about it.

Rents are crazy even to the point ordinary hard workers can no longer afford it and have to move out of Dublin and other towns so as to keep a roof over their heads.

Ohhh I dunno,Punisher5112...This lad appears to think different,albeit from more of a religious perspective...however,given his elevated status,Dr Ali Selim's opinions may well be somewhat more pertinent....;)

http://www.irishtimes.com/news/social-affairs/religion-and-beliefs/muslims-in-ireland-seek-integration-not-assimilation-1.1917937?fb_action_ids=635353163229296&fb_action_types=og.recommends&fb_ref=.VAiSNhMYayQ.like

Nodin

AlekSmart wrote: »

Ohhh I dunno,Punisher5112...This lad appears to think different,albeit from more of a religious perspective...however,given his elevated status,Dr Ali Selim's opinions may well be somewhat more pertinent....;)

http://www.irishtimes.com/news/social-affairs/religion-and-beliefs/muslims-in-ireland-seek-integration-not-assimilation-1.1917937?fb_action_ids=635353163229296&fb_action_types=og.recommends&fb_ref=.VAiSNhMYayQ.like

I'm sorry, but could you explain what that post has to do with the thread?

walshb

What's so bad about the free food they are being given? The link doesn't give much.

SilverScreen

punisher5112 wrote: »

They will never integrate with the Irish and sure the way this island is going there is nearly nothing irish left about it.

I find that most non-nationals are integrating with the Irish just fine. We're all stuck on the same small island, on a tiny planet floating in an infinite universe. I couldn't give a toss if there was nothing Irish left about this island. It would be of no significance in the grand scheme of things.

Rents are crazy even to the point ordinary hard workers can no longer afford it and have to move out of Dublin and other towns so as to keep a roof over their heads.

I find rent in Athlone just fine. No complaints there.

walshb

SilverScreen wrote: »

I couldn't give a toss if there was nothing Irish left about this island. It would be of no significance in the grand scheme of things.
.

Thank god not every Irish person is like you then...

And it would have significance to plenty of Irish people.

Nodin

walshb wrote: »

What's so bad about the free food they are being given? The link doesn't give much.

Some more detail here

"In a letter to management on August 3rd, residents say they do not receive enough food for children’s lunches or dinners and that families are paying for basic items out of their weekly allowances."
http://www.irishtimes.com/news/social-affairs/asylum-seekers-refuse-food-in-protest-over-conditions-at-direct-provision-centre-1.1918296

Seeing as this is an outsourced centre, its not too hard to imagine what's going on.

walshb

Nodin wrote: »

Some more detail here

"In a letter to management on August 3rd, residents say they do not receive enough food for children’s lunches or dinners and that families are paying for basic items out of their weekly allowances."
http://www.irishtimes.com/news/social-affairs/asylum-seekers-refuse-food-in-protest-over-conditions-at-direct-provision-centre-1.1918296

Seeing as this is an outsourced centre, its not too hard to imagine what's going on.

Thanks for the link.

So, these people are fleeing hardship I take it. Real hardship, otherwise they would hardly be traveling all the way here. I don't know the quality of the care provided or food provided, but seeing as it's all laid on and free, then maybe they are just chancing their arm. I wonder what their expectations are? It's an asylum centre, not a 4 star hotel. They should be fed/clothed and housed to a minimum standard at least. If the authorities can vouch for this and assure that it is happening then be grateful.

I am surprised RAR haven't jumped on this yet...

Nodin

walshb wrote: »

Thanks for the link.

So, these people are fleeing hardship I take it. Real hardship, otherwise they would hardly be traveling all the way here. I don't know the quality of the care provided or food provided, but seeing as it's all laid on and free, then maybe they are just chancing their arm. ..........

Or maybe the company which has the contract does the bare minimum to maximise profits, the world being the way it is.

walshb

Nodin wrote: »

Or maybe the company which has the contract does the bare minimum to maximise profits, the world being the way it is.

Sounds like a shrewd business model to me. Maybe those people in the center should do a pros and cons list for staying in the asylum process or returning to their home country. I bet staying put probably wins out.

oscarBravo

walshb wrote: »

Sounds like a shrewd business model to me. Maybe those people in the center should do a pros and cons list for staying in the asylum process or returning to their home country. I bet staying out probably wins out.

Posts like this depress the living crap out of me, because I would imagine they have a great deal of currency in the wider population. It would be comforting to think they were the views of only a tiny minority, but I sadly doubt it.

EunanMac

Phoenix wrote: »

Seems just weeks after another hunger striker at a direct provision centre in limerick

We have another one,which brings into question what kind of facilities are these poor people kept in,they have already been through trauma escaping from conflict to experience this?
I wonder if there is a government body that actually inspects these centre to make sure they are up to standard?

I hope there is no abuses of power and bullying going on in there.
Irish institutions and their staff would not have a great record for treating others well.

Nodin

walshb wrote: »

Sounds like a shrewd business model to me. Maybe those people in the center should do a pros and cons list for staying in the asylum process or returning to their home country. I bet staying put probably wins out.

It's hard to respond to that while staying within the charter.

walshb

Nodin wrote: »

It's hard to respond to that while staying within the charter.

How so? Just respond and obey the charter rules. Refugees supposedly fleeing extreme hardship in their countries are up in arms because the free food and accommodation they are receiving from a helping and caring foreign country is not to their standard. Head back home if it's not up to it.

walshb

oscarBravo wrote: »

Posts like this depress the living crap out of me, because I would imagine they have a great deal of currency in the wider population. It would be comforting to think they were the views of only a tiny minority, but I sadly doubt it.

Have you inspected the centers? Are you qualified to tell us that this protest is legitimate and correct? Are the standards sub human?

Nodin

walshb wrote: »

How so? Just respond and obey the charter rules. Refugees supposedly fleeing extreme hardship in their countries are up in arms because the free food and accommodation they are receiving from a helping and caring foreign country is not to their standard. Head back home if it's not up to it.

A remarkably ignorant post. They are entitled to decent standards by international law. This "head back home" nonsense wouldn't be acceptable for hospital patients, children in care or any other group in institutional care.

Gatling

Apparently this particular centre has several issues brought up by residents over the last 12-18 months .
The last time it on involved supplying fruit juices .
Now there not on hunger strike there refusing food from the center itself and have apparently brought in food supplies from outside the center for themselfs

Some are claiming the centre wanted to host a bbq and invite people to see the centre which in turn annoyed the residents

oscarBravo

walshb wrote: »

Have you inspected the centers? Are you qualified to tell us that this protest is legitimate and correct? Are the standards sub human?

I haven't. I'm sure you're right: they're probably just miffed because the jacuzzi wasn't at precisely the right temperature, and it spoiled their brunch.

Asylum seekers are so bloody demanding.

walshb

oscarBravo wrote: »

Asylum seekers are so bloody demanding.

Seems they could be. I'll wait for more details before slating the Irish who are paying for these people to reside here, sparing them pain and suffering in their home countries.

johnnyskeleton

walshb wrote: »

Sounds like a shrewd business model to me. Maybe those people in the center should do a pros and cons list for staying in the asylum process or returning to their home country. I bet staying put probably wins out.

Unfortunately thats exactly the governments plan. If they make life as difficult as possible for asylum seekers they will become someone elses problem. Of course ireland is not alone in seeking to make life unpleasant for asylum seekers.

Just to be clear, the problem isnt the food and shelter being inadequate, its he fact that they can be stuck there for years while thr system slowly processes their claims.

walshb

Nodin wrote: »

A remarkably ignorant post. They are entitled to decent standards by international law. This "head back home" nonsense wouldn't be acceptable for hospital patients, children in care or any other group in institutional care.

I take it that you have some actual proof that they are not receiving these international decent standards?

EunanMac

Gatling wrote: »

Apparently this particular centre has several issues brought up by residents over the last 12-18 months .
The last time it on involved supplying fruit juices .
Now there not on hunger strike there refusing food from the center itself and have apparently brought in food supplies from outside the center for themselfs

Some are claiming the centre wanted to host a bbq and invite people to see the centre which in turn annoyed the residents

People don't protest for no reason, there is two sides to this story I would wager.
I wonder is there a bit of profiteering by supplying the residents with sub standard food, while claiming for good quality food. It wouldn't be beyond some Irish people, that's for sure.

walshb

johnnyskeleton wrote: »

Of course ireland is not alone in seeking to make life unpleasant for asylum seekers

Society is trying to tell us something?

Nodin

walshb wrote: »

Society is trying to tell us something?

Maybe the same way it did for young women in laundries or young children in care.......

walshb

EunanMac wrote: »

People don't protest for no reason, there is two sides to this story I would wager.

Yes, and it seems that we're only getting one side. The side that have been taken in, welcomed in and given shelter and food by a helping nation. A nation trying to ease the pain and suffering that these people claim they are fleeing. I am sure many are fleeing for very valid reasons.

walshb

Nodin wrote: »

Maybe the same way it did for young women in laundries or young children in care.......

A "poor standard" of food was the least of their worries.

Gatling

EunanMac wrote: »

People don't protest for no reason, there is two sides to this story I would wager.
I wonder is there a bit of profiteering by supply the residents with sub standard food, while claiming for good quality food. It wouldn't be beyond some Irish people, that's for sure.

This is true , but one of the issues is on length of time to process and get either a your granted full asylum or your not is part self inflected a good few have be denied aslyum but go through multiple protracted legal actions ,

But now we have in the media give them access and full grants for 3 level education and within days we have food refusals .

If we made it easier and shorter to get a decision on aslyum we would still have issues because many won't like the decisions made .

johnnyskeleton

walshb wrote: »

Society is trying to tell us something?

Society has always been trying to tell us that we hate minorities and thr poor downtrodden masses. Rightly to be great is to rise above societys basest demands and to do what is decent in my opinion. The whole UN refugee system arose out of serious atrocities, and it is important that we recognise uts abiloty to lessen the impact of current and future outlashes of society

EunanMac

Gatling wrote: »

This is true , but one of the issues is on length of time to process and get either a your granted full asylum or your not is part self inflected a good few have be denied aslyum but go through multiple protracted legal actions ,

But now we have in the media give them access and full grants for 3 level education and within days we have food refusals .

If we made it easier and shorter to get a decision on aslyum we would still have issues because many won't like the decisions made .

What is the delay for the decisions ? A primary principle of justice, is that justice delayed is justice denied.

Gatling

EunanMac wrote: »

What is the delay for the decisions ? Justice delayed is justice denied.

I've no idea been honest we've 560,000 non nationals residing here working ,studying and so on
Surely it shouldn't take 6-10 years to tell a person sorry your application for full aslyum had denied or congratulations you have been granted full asylum here's you passport .

The legal fees and cost of provisions are huge for so few people

AlekSmart

oscarBravo wrote: »

Posts like this depress the living crap out of me, because I would imagine they have a great deal of currency in the wider population. It would be comforting to think they were the views of only a tiny minority, but I sadly doubt it.

Absolutely oscarBravo,not just a great deal of currency,but I venture to suggest the content IS effectively the currency of choice for the majority.

Whether you can take this to indicate that the "Irish" are somehow all,evil slavering oppressors of every prospective refugee who is landed,or perhaps,just perhaps have used their own senses and/or experiences to inform their own opinion,is open to debate.

The Media driven line,peddled here and elsewhere,centres upon the Irish State failing in it's duties to a physically great range of persons seeking entry to Ireland.

Much wailing and gnashing of teeth is directed at how crass and unfeeling Ireland,and those Irish who are'nt hugely enamoured with any expansion of our current systems have become.

Very little merit is ever given to the Irish System when it is proven to work,with usually in those cases,cries of "make an exception","this person is different","what about our emigrants" etc etc...much in evidence.

It appears that Ireland,must accept,at face value and without challenge,whatever reason is given at first contact.

Then,usually,when such stories are proven (at the Irish State's expense) to be without foundation,the same State is harrangued if it dares attempt to expel the perpetrators.

The focus is usually required to be on the Individual,with rarely a nod in the direction of the large,well-developed and lucrative Business model which operates in and around the economic migrant.

Todays example has great potential to develop into a nice bunch of twigs with which to lash ourselves.....

http://www.independent.ie/irish-news/education/exams/phenomenal-asylum-seeker-student-who-achieved-615-points-in-her-leaving-cert-faces-15000-bill-30564630.html

So,perhaps it is all down to the two native camps being,The Depressed on one side,and The Oppressed on the other...?

EunanMac

Gatling wrote: »

The legal fees and cost of provisions are huge for so few people

Hmmm, in other words a nice little earner for the usual suspects in Ireland if the cases take as long as possible, that's starting to make sense now.

oscarBravo

AlekSmart wrote: »

Absolutely oscarBravo,not just a great deal of currency,but I venture to suggest the content IS effectively the currency of choice for the majority.

I hope not, but if it's true, then I'm deeply ashamed to be Irish.

Nodin

AlekSmart wrote: »

Absolutely (.............)on the other...?

Could please get back to me on this?
http://www.boards.ie/vbulletin/showpost.php?p=92064256&postcount=15

Gatling

EunanMac wrote: »

Hmmm, in other words a nice little earner for the usual suspects in Ireland if the cases take as long as possible, that's starting to make sense now.

60 million + per annum for direct provision centre's

Food ,cloithing for 8000 people

Medical care

Then anoither 6+ million pa on legal fees

Thats pretty costly in current climates

Timberrrrrrrr

walshb wrote: »

Seems they could be. I'll wait for more details before slating the Irish who are paying for these people to reside here, sparing them pain and suffering in their home countries.

Yup

The Irish who are paying for it, but are probably paying xxx amount for xxx service but the company are only giving x service, a great business model according to you :rolleyes:

strandroad

Not sure if this was discussed...

http://www.broadsheet.ie/2014/09/05/he-took-me-around-some-bushes/

conorh91

Gatling wrote: »

Then anoither 6+ million pa on legal fees

Nit to be pedantic but it's a lot more than 6 million, when you consider that the DJE provides legal services to the Determining Bodies (ORAC and the Refugee Appeals Tribunal) free of charge, and also when you factor in the cost of the Asylum list in the High Court, which is ultimately borne by the Exchequer and by deserving, delayed litigants.

€6 million is the cost of providing legal services to one stakeholder alone. The true figure is undoubtedly far greater.

And it is unheard of for the State to recover costs, even in the most frivolous of cases.

Gatling

conorh91 wrote: »

Nit to be pedantic but it's a lot more than 6 million, when you consider that the DJE provides legal services to the Determining Bodies (ORAC and the Refugee Appeals Tribunal) free of charge, and also when you factor in the cost of the Asylum list in the High Court, which is ultimately borne by the Exchequer and by deserving, delayed litigants.

€6 million is the cost of providing legal services to one stakeholder alone. The true figure is undoubtedly far greater.

I can only go with whats published in the public domain i cant post a link getting error note ,
I'll link to some pdf that goes in to details of the costs