Residents at Athlone asylum seekers centre refusing to eat

conorh91

Gatling wrote: »

I can only go with whats published in the public domain i cant post a link getting error note ,
I'll link to some pdf that goes in to details of the costs

I'm not disputing the veracity of the €6 million figure. I assume it's the legal aid bill.

My point is that the legal aid bill is just one component in the total cost of legal services within the Protection system.

Gatling

conorh91 wrote: »

I'm not disputing the veracity of the €6 million figure. I assume it's the legal aid bill.

My point is that the legal aid bill is just one component in the total cost of legal services within the Protection system.

Yeah here a pdf linked in another thread its a long read page 91

Legal aid cost for 2012 was slightly under 6 million ,


http://www.legalaidboard.ie/lab/publishing.nsf/650f3eec0dfb990fca25692100069854/32926ff916f2bdaf80257c780038720e/$FILE/LAB%20Annual%20Report%2020.12.13.pdf

EunanMac

Gatling wrote: »

60 million + per annum for direct provision centre's

Food ,cloithing for 8000 people

Medical care

Then anoither 6+ million pa on legal fees

Thats pretty costly in current climates

Yep, I can see now the usual suspects benefit by making sure the cases take as long as possible.

AlekSmart

Nodin wrote: »

Could please get back to me on this?
http://www.boards.ie/vbulletin/showpost.php?p=92064256&postcount=15

Phew...busy night.....As I prefaced the post,the article is skewed towards the religiousy end of the scale,but does have relevance to Punisher5112's post...

http://www.boards.ie/vbulletin/showpost.php?p=92061937&postcount=9

They will never integrate with the Irish and sure the way this island is going there is nearly nothing irish left about it.

Dr Selim's views appear to contradict Punisher5112's statement above,and the Prof seems very confident of his ground...

More generally,and where Muslim parents in particular are concerned, Dr Selim points out that “when it comes to shaking hands with members of the opposite sex, most Muslims are reluctant and many of them may refuse. This behaviour does not imply a lack of respect or that the other person is not clean.”

For some Muslims to do so would be “a clear breach Muslim teaching” or “is inconsistent with their culture.” Similarly, “Muslims do not believe in eye contact between members of the opposite sex.” This was “significant for teachers when dealing with Muslim parents.”

Also, and “from a Muslim perspective, members of the same sex can stand very close to each other” but members of the opposite sex are to be kept “at arm’s length. Apart from facial features, the entire body is still. Body language, in this case, is limited to facial features.” This too was “significant when dealing with Muslim parents,” he said.

Integtation..assimilation...has this issue relevance to Athlone ?

What's your opinion ?

Nodin

AlekSmart wrote: »

Phew...busy night(...........)opinion ?

It has zero relevance, save scaremongering about asylum via "muslims".

Gatling

** just realised my posts about the number of Asylum seekers i mistakenly posted that there 8000 asylum seekers in direct provision here the actual numbers is just over 4000**

Gatling

The figures in the article linked below seem pretty high providing direct provision for just over 4000 people

http://www.irishexaminer.com/ireland/asylum-centre-firms-enjoy-multi-million-euro-state-payout-261168.html

AlekSmart

Nodin wrote: »

It has zero relevance, save scaremongering about asylum via "muslims".

Zero relevance for your good self perhaps,others may just find room to read and make their own judgements...or does this cause you discomfort ?

Referencing published Media reportage,and joining in debate upon those surely cannot be described as "Scaremongering" can it ...?

johnnyskeleton

AlekSmart wrote:

It appears that Ireland,must accept,at face value and without challenge,whatever reason is given at first contact.

Then,usually,when such stories are proven (at the Irish State's expense) to be without foundation,the same State is harrangued if it dares attempt to expel the perpetrators.

Who exactly insists on acceptance without question or derides the State for carrying out a valid assessment? Certainly not the majority of people.

K-9

punisher5112 wrote: »

Where do you plan on housing them?

They will never integrate with the Irish and sure the way this island is going there is nearly nothing irish left about it.


Rents are crazy even to the point ordinary hard workers can no longer afford it and have to move out of Dublin and other towns so as to keep a roof over their heads.

That seems a huge blanket statement given the history of asylum seekers in Ireland which goes back to Jewish people arriving in Ireland in the 19th century. They seemed to integrate well, didn't stop a Catholic priest organising a pogrom in 1904!

There also seems to be a history of refugees going on hunger strike, as far back as the Hungarians fleeing from the failed revolution in 1956. We've also accepted Chilean, Vietnamese, Bosnian and Kosovan refugees at different times for obvious reasons, and I've yet to see any problems with integration there.

AlekSmart wrote: »

Zero relevance for your good self perhaps,others may just find room to read and make their own judgements...or does this cause you discomfort ?

Referencing published Media reportage,and joining in debate upon those surely cannot be described as "Scaremongering" can it ...?

Mod: I've no problem with the article as long as it stays on topic, the asylum system, which is about far more than Muslims in Ireland.

EunanMac

K-9 wrote: »

That seems a huge blanket statement given the history of asylum seekers in Ireland which goes back to Jewish people arriving in Ireland in the 19th century. They seemed to integrate well, didn't stop a Catholic priest organising a pogrom in 1904!

Oh here we go, Catholics again . . . .

AlekSmart

K-9 wrote: »

That seems a huge blanket statement given the history of asylum seekers in Ireland which goes back to Jewish people arriving in Ireland in the 19th century. They seemed to integrate well, didn't stop a Catholic priest organising a pogrom in 1904!

There also seems to be a history of refugees going on hunger strike, as far back as the Hungarians fleeing from the failed revolution in 1956. We've also accepted Chilean, Vietnamese, Bosnian and Kosovan refugees at different times for obvious reasons, and I've yet to see any problems with integration there.

The main difference with the previous Refugee programmes was their realistic structure.

Ireland accepted those Countries refugees under controlled and properly funded and managed programmes.....and (in the main) It worked...and worked well.

I work with,and socialize with people from 3 of those schemes,who are now totally comfortable within "mainstream" Irish society.

They have not been required to forget or deny their past and the journey which brought them here,but,interestingly,Ireland is now home to them and their families,whereas their old haunts are for Holidays only!

When we discuss the acceptance of large numbers of asylum seekers,the Eastern European folk in particular are dead-set against it,vehemently so in some cases,as their experience is that organized criminal outfits have long ago taken control of this "market".

All of my work-mates are very happy with how the Irish State treated them,and particularly how it facilitated,in a controlled manner the reuniting of their families.

It is interesting that they see the liberalization policy as destructive in ethos rather than desirable.

Nodin

AlekSmart wrote: »

The main difference with the previous Refugee programmes was their realistic structure.

Ireland accepted those Countries refugees under controlled and properly funded and managed programmes.....and (in the main) It worked...and worked well.

I work with,and socialize with people from 3 of those schemes,who are now totally comfortable within "mainstream" Irish society.

They have not been required to forget or deny their past and the journey which brought them here,but,interestingly,Ireland is now home to them and their families,whereas their old haunts are for Holidays only!

When we discuss the acceptance of large numbers of asylum seekers,the Eastern European folk in particular are dead-set against it,vehemently so in some cases,as their experience is that organized criminal outfits have long ago taken control of this "market".

All of my work-mates are very happy with how the Irish State treated them,and particularly how it facilitated,in a controlled manner the reuniting of their families.

It is interesting that they see the liberalization policy as destructive in ethos rather than desirable.

What policy is this?

AlekSmart

Nodin wrote: »

What policy is this?

Essentially,what some might call the open-door policy.

However the lads I speak of are realistic enough to recognize the limitations on how many Asymum/Refugee/Subsidiary/Leave to Remain etc applications we can sustainably accede to.

This viewpoint can,of course,be a result of becoming an integral part of the Taxpaying system,which can skew one's viewpoint somewhat.

Although,I must say when the Calais situation comes on telly News reports the general feeling appears to be....we're next up !

http://www.independent.co.uk/news/world/europe/ethnic-riots-in-calais-as-albanian-gangs-charge-african-migrants-for-access-to-port-area-9650338.html

Mind you,those Albanians sure have Capitalist Principles down to a T....

“The Albanian people smugglers lie to the African migrants and tell them that they can work in the UK which they describe as El Dorado.” Mr Larue told The Independent that the gangmasters were demanding between €2,000 to €3,000 from the migrants.

However,it appears the Irish Refugee Council may have the answer....

http://www.irishrefugeecouncil.ie/wp-content/uploads/2011/08/Roadmap-for-Asylum-Reform3.pdf

Nodin

AlekSmart wrote: »

Essentially,what some might call the open-door policy.
...........

We do not have an "open door" policy.

AlekSmart wrote: »

This viewpoint can,of course,be a result of becoming an integral part of the Taxpaying system,which can skew one's viewpoint somewhat...........

Do please explain.

AlekSmart

Nodin wrote: »

We do not have an "open door" policy.

Hopefully we can maintain that so ?




Do please explain.

I'm sure somebody will explain in due course.....;)

Nodin

AlekSmart wrote: »

I'm sure somebody will explain in due course.....;)

You said there was an open door policy, and when that was pointed out to be false you start going on about "Hopefully we can maintain that so "?

You stated

This viewpoint can,of course,be a result of becoming an integral part of the
Taxpaying system,which can skew one's viewpoint somewhat

What do you mean by that, exactly?

jank

Phoenix wrote: »

Although seems the government will finally look to review the direct provision system
http://www.thejournal.ie/direct-provision-system-review-1615462-Aug2014/
But considering all these well documented cases in the media one wonders does it tarnish Irelands reputation internationally with cases such as this

Eh, no. Most if not all other countries could not give a **** on what happens in regards this issue. Similar utterances have been said by the 'usual crowd' of people here in Australia when it comes to how Australia deals with refuges. Instead of using reason and logic which the latest Liberal policy of stopping the boats has destroyed, they use emotion.

jank

On the topic at hand, does anyone have actual details of the grievances apart from generic statements like "long processing times", "Substandard food", "allowance too small".
Surely if the conditions are so bad, then there would be documented evidence of this. Malnutrition? Episodes of mental health issues, A wave of suicides, rat infested rooms etc.etc.etc

It seems this story is more media driven than anything else. A right to reside in a country should be seen as a privilege not a right. This is a common discussion in Australia where the housing of refuges is outsourced to neighboring countries in order to stop people profiting from human trafficking. It seems to have worked so far. Also, those who then do follow the rules, submit the paper work, do all that is required and then rightly pissed off when others come in and jump the queue.

I would be much more in favor of a 'conflict' refugee system where a block of places could be assigned to people displaced by war in say Syria or the Congo and where we could go over, look at the situation and then bring them over to be rehoused, given a visa, education and so on. Most people would have no issue with that at all. Obviously we could not take all 3 million Syrian refuges but say a few hundred places per year would be helpful. This was done with Bosnian refuges in 1994 which was seen as a success.

Instead we have a situation where people rock up to Ireland then say, 'I am a refugee, please help me'. Then all amounts of time and money is then spent on the process and needless to say this system is rife for abuse and discontent grows within the established populace and new immigrants and genuine refuges.

Regards outsourcing, well the Irish PS are not the most efficient bunch when it comes to other peoples money so it makes sense for the taxpayer to limit costs here if we can. It may not be PC but that's the way it is.

Nodin

jank wrote: »

On the topic at hand, does anyone have actual details of the grievances apart from generic statements like "long processing times", "Substandard food", "allowance too small".
Surely if the conditions are so bad, then there would be documented evidence of this. Malnutrition? Episodes of mental health issues, A wave of suicides, rat infested rooms etc.etc.etc.

There is, documented over years.

http://www.ombudsman.gov.ie/en/News/Speeches-Articles/2013/Asylum-Seekers-Wrong.html

http://www.irishexaminer.com/ireland/icrime/fears-for-young-asylum-seekers-125618.html


http://www.irishexaminer.com/ireland/health/asylum-seekers-needs-not-met-165084.html

http://www.irishexaminer.com/ireland/more-asylum-seekers-spending-longer-in-direct-provision-says-report-273824.html

http://www.irishexaminer.com/ireland/women-asylum-seekers-forced-into-prostitution-284630.html

http://www.irishtimes.com/news/social-affairs/how-should-ireland-treat-asylum-seekers-1.1893848

http://www.irishtimes.com/news/social-affairs/asylum-seekers-transferred-with-10-minutes-notice-after-protest-1.1898659

GarIT

I think if they are on hunger strike they have declared that we are worse than their original country so we should send them back. Asylum seekers should have no rights at all until they are approves, food and a roof is all they should get.

This might annoy some people but I'm going to say it anyway because it's how I feel. Asylum seekers may not have a right to be in this country so they should be imprisoned until their application is processed. There should be a list of countries that get automatic approval once that person has proven to be from that country. Other than that we need must faster approvals, but the people shouldn't be free to be in the public until they have been approved.

Gatling

The refugees in athlone aren't on hunger strike , there refusing food supplied through the center instead they sourced food from an outside source .
Which it's self should be looked at ie how does aslyum seekers manage to organise and fund there own supplies and yet claiming they can't afford to live on €19 pw.

walshb

I'm still waiting for some solid facts relating to this appalling standard of care. Refugees aren't happy with their food. Sourcing their own. Problem solved.

jank

Nodin wrote: »

There is, documented over years.

http://www.ombudsman.gov.ie/en/News/Speeches-Articles/2013/Asylum-Seekers-Wrong.html

http://www.irishexaminer.com/ireland/icrime/fears-for-young-asylum-seekers-125618.html


http://www.irishexaminer.com/ireland/health/asylum-seekers-needs-not-met-165084.html

http://www.irishexaminer.com/ireland/more-asylum-seekers-spending-longer-in-direct-provision-says-report-273824.html

http://www.irishexaminer.com/ireland/women-asylum-seekers-forced-into-prostitution-284630.html

http://www.irishtimes.com/news/social-affairs/how-should-ireland-treat-asylum-seekers-1.1893848

http://www.irishtimes.com/news/social-affairs/asylum-seekers-transferred-with-10-minutes-notice-after-protest-1.1898659

Not one of those links actually answer any of my questions. The one bit of detail I got regarding accommodation conditions is that some of the showers were broken in one of the buildings... which means that there were other showers working in an other building.
Again, all very generic, very scant on details and very high on emotion. Personally I think most of those in direct provisioning are bored out of their trees and have nothing to do. As the saying goes "The Devil finds work for idle hands". If the process was speed-ed up then this topic would disappear.

oscarBravo

GarIT wrote: »

Asylum seekers should have no rights at all...

Black people should have no rights at all.

Women should have no rights at all.

Jews should have no rights at all.

You're talking about people. You don't get to say that human beings should have no rights at all. That's not your call to make. They have intrinsic rights by the mere virtue of the fact that they were born human.

They should have no rights at all? Shame on you!

walshb

They absolutely should have rights. They should be treated with respect and dignity and provided with materials for life. This is where it gets tricky. Subjectivity comes into it. Give a person an inch and he takes a yard mentality. I am hearing one side of this story. Are these refugees ungrateful, greedy and demanding something that isn't a right or a necessity?

jank

Of course refugees have rights, however, it seems that innate human rights are confused with the right to have a shower in the morning, paid for by the tax payer. This is when it all gets confused and muddled as everything and its dog then gets proclaimed by high heaven as human rights.

ZeroImpurities

I was going to go on hunger strike once.

walshb

ZeroImpurities wrote: »

I was going to go on hunger strike once.

You sound like the voice-over guy on Little Britain.

ZeroImpurities

walshb wrote: »

You sound like the voice-over guy on Little Britain.

I don't watch that.
But seriously, I was going to go on hunger strike once. Then I got hungry.

Nodin

jank wrote: »

Not one of those links actually answer any of my questions. The one bit of detail I got regarding accommodation conditions is that some of the showers were broken in one of the buildings... which means that there were other showers working in an other building.
Again, all very generic, very scant on details and very high on emotion. Personally I think most of those in direct provisioning are bored out of their trees and have nothing to do. As the saying goes "The Devil finds work for idle hands". If the process was speed-ed up then this topic would disappear.

I suspect that regardless of what I provide you'll come to the same conclusion, however -

http://www.nascireland.org/latest-news/asylum-system-a-ryan-report-waiting-to-happen/

http://www.independent.ie/irish-news/asylum-centres-condemned-as-open-prisons-26437194.html

http://www.medicalindependent.ie/419/one_third_of_male_asylum_seekers_in_hostels_medicated

Nodin

jank wrote: »

Of course refugees have rights, however, it seems that innate human rights are confused with the right to have a shower in the morning, paid for by the tax payer. This is when it all gets confused and muddled as everything and its dog then gets proclaimed by high heaven as human rights.

You've a problem with basic hygiene?

punisher5112

Nodin wrote: »

You've a problem with basic hygiene?

Plenty of room in the sea to wash...

You are extremely defensive thats not what the poster was saying.

But everything is at a price/cost to all tax payers.

Nodin

punisher5112 wrote: »

Plenty of room in the sea to wash...

................

I have to say that's fairly vile and xenophobic in the extreme.

The poster has a problem with the provision of washing facilities. Whether this is on financial grounds or not really doesn't matter.

walshb

Still waiting on proof for this particular case. Still waiting on some official report or document that shows that Ireland is not meeting the 'required standards' for sheltering and feeding refugees in asylum centers.

Nodin

walshb wrote: »

Still waiting on proof for this particular case. Still waiting on some official report or document that shows that Ireland is not meeting the 'required standards' for sheltering and feeding refugees in asylum centers.

The UN any good?

"There is much for the Government to consider in the area of immigration and asylum. The Committee is concerned at the negative impact that the policy of direct provision has had on the welfare of asylum seekers who, “due to inordinate delay in the processing of their applications and the final outcomes of their appeals and reviews, as well as poor living conditions, can suffer health and psychological problems that in certain cases lead to serious mental illness”.
The Committee notes that the lapsed Immigration, Residence and Protection Bill and the fact that current legislation does not provide adequate protection for separated children and unaccompanied minors. It calls on the Government both to improve the existing draft legislation and to pass it into law. In particular, the State should improve the Immigration, Residence and Protection Bill to provide for the right of migrants to judicial review against administrative actions and to “ensure the right of migrant women in abusive relationships to legal protection by providing them with separate residence permits”.

http://enarireland.org/un-committee-issues-concluding-observations/

walshb

The UN commented on this particular protest?

Nodin

walshb wrote: »

The UN commented on this particular protest?

It's very hard to kick a ball at ever moving goalposts. Conditions which would lead to a protest have been outlined as pertaining to the system generally. You might show where this centre is somehow exempt from them.

walshb

Nodin wrote: »

It's very hard to kick a ball at ever moving goalposts. Conditions which would lead to a protest have been outlined as pertaining to the system generally. You might show where this centre is somehow exempt from them.

I know well that the system isn't perfect. Carlsberg don't do asylum centers. In relation to this protest I am waiting to hear more.

Gatling

The UN can't say we don't do enough for immigrant and housing them

We've social housing lists in some cases where non nationals make up 75% of housing lists in some areas .

It's not like there's mass discrimination seems by most report immigrant are quite happy and happy about access to services such as social welfare and social housing.

Aslyum seekers are treated alot better than our homeless people .
And you can bet some aslyum seeking families have more disposable income than some families on low incomes after taxes .bills
Rent /mortgages and other family related spending

oscarBravo

We're not talking about immigrants; we're talking about asylum seekers.

AlekSmart

walshb wrote: »

Still waiting on proof for this particular case. Still waiting on some official report or document that shows that Ireland is not meeting the 'required standards' for sheltering and feeding refugees in asylum centers.

As with many similar "Campaigns",this one required a bit of a kick-start.

In the absence of any verifiable incidents of deliberate State mistreatment of Direct Provision clients,something needed to be fashioned into a bunch of twigs for us to flagellate ourselves with.

http://www.thejournal.ie/direct-provision-limerick-1644078-Aug2014/

As the OP's linked article shows,the State and it's agents have entered into dialogue with those who are objecting...

Karen McHugh of Doras Luimní told TheJournal.ie that the situation is of great concern so Doras Luimní is “doing as much as we can to keep the public informed and keep the support”.

She said that they have “unanimous public support here in Limerick” and that they are “very pleased that the public are getting behind it and some politicians locally are getting behind it as well”.

Which is all well and good,but it can also be taken as an outside agency making a bit of work for itself in it's chosen field.

But all of this aside,we learn that the Reception & Integration Agency (RIA) is engaging with the dissatisfied clients and putting resources in place....

The RIA said it has been informed by the service provider “that a number of additional services have been put in place including a range of additional recreational facilities and improved internet systems as well as an increase in the daily bus service to Limerick from three to six days per week”.

"RIA has also been liaising closely with the service provider on the repair of other facilities damaged in the centre in recent days."

The RIA said it will be seeking to engage with a representative of Doras Luminí in relation to recent developments there “as soon as practicable”.

Interestingly there is no elaboration on the "recently damaged facilities" mentioned in the piece.

It is equally of note that the Irish Refugee Council is fully supportive of the new protest impetus,and maintains a fully stocked website to ensure the oxygen of Publicity is fully available.

Nowhere,in any of the various websites,publications or media appearances is there ever any recognition by the Asylum/Refugee advocacy industry,of the State's efforts to juggle it's day to day committments to ordinary citizens.

Instead,we are asked again and again to unquestioningly accept that whatever level of provision is made for this grouping,can never be enough...it is always a strident cry for more,more,more.

No limits,financial,material or social can ever be suggested,as that would infringe upon the human rights of the seeker.

Instead we are told that there is

“unanimous public support here in Limerick” and that they are “very pleased that the public are getting behind it and some politicians locally are getting behind it as well”..

Perhaps.....perhaps...perhaps.

With the rapidly deteriorating situation in Sangette/Calais and the Channel Ports it cannot be assumed that Ireland is going to remain off the radar for much longer,with some rather interesting scenario's developing rapidly as the mood there changes.

Nodin

AlekSmart wrote: »

As with many similar "Campaigns",this one required a bit of a kick-start.

In the absence of any verifiable incidents of deliberate State mistreatment of Direct Provision clients,something needed to be fashioned into a bunch of twigs for us to flagellate ourselves with.
...................

Whether its deliberate or otherwise is neither here nor there. The effect on those stuck in the system is well catalogued.

AlekSmart

Nodin wrote: »

Whether its deliberate or otherwise is neither here nor there.The effect on those stuck in the system is well catalogued.

It is well catalogued for sure.

Equally well catalogued is the unwillingness of those who eventually fail to satisfy the requirements to leave the country.

Nobody is denying that there is an overabundance of people "stuck in the system",however,that of itself cannot imply that the system be abandoned and those people allowed through "on the nod" a lá the Driving Licence fiasco of the early 1980's.

The conditions may not inddded be perfect,BUT they are far from the abject deliberate oppression which certain media attempt to portray it as.

Nodin

AlekSmart wrote: »

It is well catalogued for sure.

Equally well catalogued is the unwillingness of those who eventually fail to satisfy the requirements to leave the country..

.....which is entirely irrelevant to the discussion at hand.

Annasopra

Gatling wrote: »

The UN can't say we don't do enough for immigrant and housing them

We've social housing lists in some cases where non nationals make up 75% of housing lists in some areas .

It's not like there's mass discrimination seems by most report immigrant are quite happy and happy about access to services such as social welfare and social housing.

Aslyum seekers are treated alot better than our homeless people .
And you can bet some aslyum seeking families have more disposable income than some families on low incomes after taxes .bills
Rent /mortgages and other family related spending

Where are the social housing lists with 75% non national?

jank

Nodin wrote: »

You've a problem with basic hygiene?

Yes, that is exactly it...

jank

Nodin wrote: »

I suspect that regardless of what I provide you'll come to the same conclusion, however -

http://www.nascireland.org/latest-news/asylum-system-a-ryan-report-waiting-to-happen/

http://www.independent.ie/irish-news/asylum-centres-condemned-as-open-prisons-26437194.html

http://www.medicalindependent.ie/419/one_third_of_male_asylum_seekers_in_hostels_medicated

Again, no actual detail to what constitutes poor living conditions and more generalities on poor food, low allowances and long processing times.

It is mentioned for example that 36% of asylum seekers live in prefabricated buildings or mobile homes (this means that 64% of them are living in a permanent structure). Not to sound glib but I spent the best part of 10 years being educated in such a prefabricated structure. Does that make me heartless?

Anyone who has been to 3rd world country and sees what real poverty is like up close will know that living in a prefabricated structure or mobile home is to western eyes 'below average' living conditions but to someone from a war torn third world country who has been living in a tent or a shack will know which one they would rather every day of the week.

This is interesting though

According to Dr Gretta Tarrant, a public health doctor, up to 95 per cent of asylum seekers who do not initially receive refugee status opt to go through an appeals process, which can take up to six years in some cases.

As I mentioned the problem here is the length of time applications and appeals take to process. If this was more speedy then such idle hands would not be making noises and I suspect that this is the primary motive of the latest complaints. Of course though if the state decided to give a 'NO' to a would be claimant after a few weeks then you will have the same groups complaining now screaming blue murder about the lack of thoroughness and detail gone into the process. Dammed if you do, dammed if you don't.

Nodin

jank wrote: »

Again, no actual detail to what constitutes poor living conditions and more generalities on poor food, low allowances and long processing times.

It is mentioned for example that 36% of asylum seekers live in prefabricated buildings or mobile homes (this means that 64% of them are living in a permanent structure)..

5 or 6 to a room in some cases.

jank wrote: »

Not to sound glib but I spent the best part of 10 years being educated in such a prefabricated structure. Does that make me heartless?.

It does sound glib, because it is.

jank wrote: »

Anyone who has been to 3rd world country and sees what real poverty is like up close will know that living in a prefabricated structure or mobile home is to western eyes 'below average' living conditions but to someone from a war torn third world country who has been living in a tent or a shack will know which one they would rather every day of the week.?.

You've no idea what living conditions they come from, stereotypes aside.

jank wrote: »

This is interesting though.

Why?

jank wrote: »

Yes, that is exactly it... .

Perhaps you might explain yourself then?

jank

Nodin wrote: »

You've no idea what living conditions they come from, stereotypes aside.

You are right, I do not (and neither do you) but I have traveled extensively such countries. Where they are living now would be superior then anything they had before in the vast majority of cases.
However, it does not stop people like your good self bemoaning their current poor accommodation when facts are thin on the ground.

Nodin wrote: »

Perhaps you might explain yourself then?

I thought it was obvious. There is no human right to a shower.