Residents at Athlone asylum seekers centre refusing to eat

Gatling

Nodin wrote: »

I wasn't aware that one ordinarily threw the baby out with the bathwater.

Do you have a link to the story?

http://m.independent.ie/irish-news/violent-rapist-has-visa-renewed-as-he-cannot-be-deported-30336581.html

Nodin

Gatling wrote: »

http://m.independent.ie/irish-news/violent-rapist-has-visa-renewed-as-he-cannot-be-deported-30336581.html

Right, man gets in here in 2005, turns out to be (or turns into) somebody with serious problems and a danger to the public. If he's sent back to Eritrea, there's a good chance he'll be killed, therefore he's kept here, on the sex offenders register and monitored by the Gardaí.

I'm unsure as to what significance this is supposed to have as regards the asylum system as a whole.

Gatling

Nodin wrote: »

Right, man gets in here in 2005, turns out to be (or turns into) somebody with serious problems and a danger to the public. If he's sent back to Eritrea, there's a good chance he'll be killed, therefore he's kept here, on the sex offenders register and monitored by the Gardaí.

I'm unsure as to what significance this is supposed to have as regards the asylum system as a whole.

He claimed political aslyum .
Chances are he's got charges waiting for him back home .

He should be returned full stop war or not .
And as for monitoring Larry Murphy comes to mind .

Nodin

Gatling wrote: »

He claimed political aslyum .
Chances are he's got charges waiting for him back home ..

Wild speculation.

Gatling wrote: »

He should be returned full stop war or not .
And as for monitoring Larry Murphy comes to mind .

People are not deported to where they face death from EU states. Even if that were a death penalty case in the US.

Again - what has this to do with asylum system overall? What point are you trying to make?

walshb

Better that women here in Ireland are at risk of rape and god knows what else from this man than him being at risk of death in his own country. Monitored my ar&e.

walshb

This thread has gone on on and it's clear that this protest about poor food has no merit to it whatsoever. I have seen no evidence to show that these asylum seekers are being mistreated as regards the free food we are providing them. A sham protest.

Gatling

It also shows once your in the system all you have to do is wait because imo it's highly unlikely you Will be deported no matter how many times you have been denied

Nodin

I wonder if theres an expression for jumping to previously arrived at conclusions.

gatling wrote:

It also shows once your in the system all you have to do is wait because imo
it's highly unlikely you Will be deported no matter how many times you have been
denied

What was the point in introducing the case above to the thread?

AlekSmart

Nodin wrote: »

Another post, another dig at an asylum seeker.

The word for a good deal of your posts escaped me earlier - it's NIMBYism.

No digging at all.

This appears to be a recurring element in your responses to several posters recently.

The article itself carries all of the relevant information on this gent's position and his opinion as to what the Irish State SHOULD be doing to accomodate him.

Oddly enough I can see some merit in your NIMBY dig (;)),particularly as Cameroon could be said to be in France's back yard when it comes to offering a safe-haven to somebody fleeing whatever oppression and dangers which exist there today.

I also note,the beginning of a recognition that not ALL of the DP recipients are engaging in the protests....perhaps worth a bit more investigative journalsitc time....?

AlekSmart

Nodin wrote: »

Right, man gets in here in 2005, turns out to be (or turns into) somebody with serious problems and a danger to the public. If he's sent back to Eritrea, there's a good chance he'll be killed, therefore he's kept here, on the sex offenders register and monitored by the Gardaí.

I'm unsure as to what significance this is supposed to have as regards the asylum system as a whole.

You can (and doubtlessly will,cos that's the entire point of a discussion board) argue of individual significances,however,your needs will inevitably be met as the examples come to light.

http://www.irishexaminer.com/archives/2014/0911/ireland/teens-jailed-after-rape-captured-on-phone-285879.html

Sgt O’Shea confirmed both accused had no previous convictions but Simukonda, who is from Malawi, had been issued with a 15-day deportation warning notice in September 2013.

Get the deportation orders processed.
Very little actual progress on the remainder is possible until the State actually proves it will act on it's own principles.
It is,in a way,all about Theatre.

reprise

Nodin wrote: »

Right, man gets in here in 2005, turns out to be (or turns into) somebody with serious problems and a danger to the public. If he's sent back to Eritrea, there's a good chance he'll be killed, therefore he's kept here, on the sex offenders register and monitored by the Gardaí.

I'm unsure as to what significance this is supposed to have as regards the asylum system as a whole.

Does it take your child, wife or girlfiend to be raped to understand?

reprise

Nodin wrote: »

Right, man gets in here in 2005, turns out to be (or turns into) somebody with serious problems and a danger to the public. If he's sent back to Eritrea, there's a good chance he'll be killed, therefore he's kept here, on the sex offenders register and monitored by the Gardaí.

I'm unsure as to what significance this is supposed to have as regards the asylum system as a whole.

Does it take your child, wife or girlfiend to be raped to understand or are you happier dealing in the abstract?

Nodin

reprise wrote: »

Does it take your child, wife or girlfiend to be raped to understand or are you happier dealing in the abstract?

Understand what?

jank

Nodin wrote: »

And the import of this is...?

Should a convicted criminal with no inherent right to reside in a country be allowed stay? If one wants to get a residents visa to a country like Australia, Canada, USA, NZ and a host of other countries a conviction of rape will disqualify you from a visa. Simple enough. Why then is it acceptable to have an asylum seeker be granted a visa and not someone who applies via the other 'economic' means?

Of course, given the attitudes that some men form various countries (See Rotherham issue) have towards sex, woman and young girls should the state not take this issue seriously or would this be seems as 'Un-PC'?

Recently there was a case of an asylum seeker having raped someone in Australia who was granted a right of appeal to the conviction due to..and this is not a joke.. the fact claimed by the defence that rape of women is a 'cultural norm' in the country where he was from. ie. he did not know it was wrong. Even more disturbingly this judge gave him the appeal..
Well if rapping of women is a cultural norm in some countries and not seen as a wrong thing to do, then shouldn't we in Ireland and other western countries where we treat women by and large with a degree of greater respect not do everything we can to stop people of these attitudes entering our shores legally?

jank

Nodin wrote: »

Right, man gets in here in 2005, turns out to be (or turns into) somebody with serious problems and a danger to the public. If he's sent back to Eritrea, there's a good chance he'll be killed, therefore he's kept here, on the sex offenders register and monitored by the Gardaí.

I'm unsure as to what significance this is supposed to have as regards the asylum system as a whole.

Surely it is obvious. The guy takes up resources that could be granted to help other more deserving cases.

The guy claims asylum in the state, the state help him and the thanks the state and the taxpayer gets is a guy who then proceeds to rape someone and then wastes more tax payers money..and then the bleeding heart crowd have a hard time seeing why the general public sees the who asylum seeking system as a scam? Really??

He should be sent back. He is a danger to the public and he had his chance.

Nodin

jank wrote: »

Should a convicted criminal with no inherent right to reside in a country be allowed stay? If one wants to get a residents visa to a country like Australia, Canada, USA, NZ and a host of other countries a conviction of rape will disqualify you from a visa. Simple enough. Why then is it acceptable to have an asylum seeker be granted a visa and not someone who applies via the other 'economic' means?
..............

He had no conviction before he arrived, and he was granted a visa before the rape took place.

States in the EU do not deport people to where they face death, even if that's as the result of a crime committed in that jurisdiction.

jank

He commited the crime as you said after the visa was granted so therefore was the in violation of its terms. He is not a citizen so has no automatic right to live permanently and indefinitely in Ireland. People who have residency rights in countries but commit henious crimes are often deported. It should be the case here and resources be spent on a more deserving case.

AlekSmart

jank wrote: »

He commited the crime as you said after the visa was granted so therefore was the in violation of its terms. He is not a citizen so has no automatic right to live permanently and indefinitely in Ireland. People who have residency rights in countries but commit henious crimes are often deported. It should be the case here and resources be spent on a more deserving case.

This thread is (or should be ) about more than just Nodin vs "The Rest".

As I see it,any form of debate is to be encouraged,and this thread and others have certainly broadened my understanding of the challenges faced by this State in formulating an Asylum or Refugee System capable of satisfying the precieved minimums required by some.

Some see a connection between relaxing our requirements and somehow creating a multi-cultural society without having to do much more than "allow them to work" etc etc.

However,there is also a healthy debate concerning whether this "Multiculturalism" is all it's cracked up to be.

The contrary side (;)),tend to be a bit less acceptant of the suggestion that merely releasing all of the current direct-provision recipients into the Labour Market (and giving them a house) will solve the problem.

There appears to be a strongly held belief that aboloshing Direct Provision and generally relaxing our rules will save the State (us) a vast amount,thus allowing even more to grow and prosper under the "Irish" flag.

Personally,I see our current situation as being of the utmost importance,as we are at a tipping point.

The current situation is being observed very closely by interested parties,who if the opportunity arises,will satisfy every Multicultural craving we can muster.

In the meantime,supporting our system,and those who'se task it is to operate it,is the least we can do .

Nodin

jank wrote: »

He commited the crime as you said after the visa was granted so therefore was the in violation of its terms. He is not a citizen so has no automatic right to live permanently and indefinitely in Ireland. People who have residency rights in countries but commit henious crimes are often deported. It should be the case here and resources be spent on a more deserving case.

And as just explained to you, EU states so not deport people to where they face death.

walshb

They just import people who commit rape!

Nodin

walshb wrote: »

They just import people who commit rape!

A non-sequitur, as obviously they'd no idea he would commit the crime in advance.

Nodin

"Minister for State at the Department of Justice Aodhán Ó Ríordáin has said he does not stand over the way direct provision centres for asylum seekers are being operated.
The junior minister who has responsibility for Equality, New Communities and Culture said the system is inhumane.
He said the amount of time people are spending in these centres is outrageous and he said the conditions they live in are intolerable.
Mr Ó Ríordáin said a working group that is examining the system have three months to come up with firm proposals on how to reform the system.
He also said legislation going through the Oireachtas will limit the time a person spends in the system to between six months and a year."
http://www.rte.ie/news/2014/0914/643687-direct-provision/

It would seem that whatever about the naysayers elsewhere, in Government something is believed to be wrong and will be acted on.

walshb

Nodin wrote: »

A non-sequitur, as obviously they'd no idea he would commit the crime in advance.

Good point. Another area we need to brush up on is thorough criminal checks on people we allow to enter the EU from outside the EU. I would say a fair few nasty heads slip through the net.

Gatling

Probably explains why he came her in the first place lack of checks his details should be traced through the UN mission in eirthea .

Either way he should be taken to Baldonell put on a casa and returned to sender asap.

So this junior minister thinks that aslyum seekers shouldn't spend no more than 6 months and a year in DP .
So either he's going to give 3000 + aslyum and passports over night or give the 3000+ access to social welfare and social housing .
Or deny 3000+ aslyum and start deportations

reprise

Nodin wrote: »

It would seem that whatever about the naysayers elsewhere, in Government something is believed to be wrong and will be acted on.

Easy prediction:

(1) No "naysayer" will oppose a turnaround of weeks or months to a final call on status and action to implement or deport. That means really deport.

(2) People like yourself will be up in arms saying that the system is not thorough enough.

There is something wrong Nodin, everyone knows that, the system is plagued with people it is not intended to serve and it is highly attractive to them, and those making a fine living out of its rampant abuse and maladministration.

The Government will be applauded for implementing a system for refugees, not economic migrants.

in case you are wondering, that latter are the ones with their photos names and "professions" displayed to the entire world on internet based media. Bizzare way to hide in this day and age don't you think?

The food is a footnote.

Nodin

reprise wrote: »

Easy prediction:

(1) No "naysayer" will oppose a turnaround of weeks or months to a final call on status and action to implement or deport. That means really deport.

(2) People like yourself will be up in arms saying that the system is not thorough enough.

There is something wrong Nodin, everyone knows that, the system is plagued with people it is not intended to serve and it is highly attractive to them, and those making a fine living out of its rampant abuse and maladministration.

The Government will be applauded for implementing a system for refugees, not economic migrants.

in case you are wondering, that latter are the ones with their photos names and "professions" displayed to the entire world on internet based media. Bizzare way to hide in this day and age don't you think?

The food is a footnote.

An asylum seeker can't have a profession?

reprise

Nodin wrote: »

An asylum seeker can't have a profession?

It's irrelevant if they do or don't.

Nodin

reprise wrote: »

It's irrelevant if they do or don't.

Then do please explain what you meant by this

The Government will be applauded for implementing a system for refugees, not
economic migrants.

in case you are wondering, that latter are the ones
with their photos names and "professions" displayed to the entire world on
internet based media. Bizzare way to hide in this day and age don't you
think?

reprise

Nodin wrote: »

Then do please explain what you meant by this

What I meant by what?

Nodin

reprise wrote: »

What I meant by what?

This -

reprise wrote:

The Government will be applauded for implementing a system for refugees, not economic migrants.

in case you are wondering, that latter are the ones
with their photos names and "professions" displayed to the entire world on
internet based media. Bizzare way to hide in this day and age don't you think?

reprise

Nodin wrote: »

This -

If you would like a link to online dictionaries, translators etc, Google them.

Nodin

reprise wrote: »

If you would like a link to online dictionaries, translators etc, Google them.

What did you mean by the following?

The Government will be applauded for implementing a system for refugees, not economic migrants.

in case you are wondering, that latter are the
ones with their photos names and "professions" displayed to the entire
world on internet based media. Bizzare way to hide in this day and age
don't you think?

reprise

Nodin wrote: »

What did you mean by the following?

I repeat, If you would like a link to online dictionaries, translators etc, Google them.

jank

Nodin wrote: »

A non-sequitur, as obviously they'd no idea he would commit the crime in advance.

How thorough was his background check?

Nodin

jank wrote: »

How thorough was his background check?

Is there a point to this question?

reprise

Nodin wrote: »

He had no conviction before he arrived, and he was granted a visa before the rape took place.

Link please.

jank

Nodin wrote: »

Is there a point to this question?

The person may have had a criminal background so therefore it stands to reason that the Irish authorities could have given a risk assessment if this person could indeed have committed a crime in the first place. So I will ask again, how thorough was the background check?

This uber contrarian stuff is tiring after a while Nodin. Seems your single line posts are there just for the sake of it without adding anything substantive here.

Nodin

jank wrote: »

The person may have had a criminal background so therefore it stands to reason that the Irish authorities could have given a risk assessment if this person could indeed have committed a crime in the first place. So I will ask again, how thorough was the background check? .

"How thorough" presumes some universal standard of thorough against which I'm supposed to weigh the background check done against this person. The facts are that the same standard of checking that was applied to thousands of others was applied to him (there being no evidence to the contrary), nothing was found, and he was let in.

Reprise wrote:

Link please. .

"Bereket Mekonnen (25) received a seven-year jail term after being found guilty in 2007 of raping a 42-year-old woman in the city centre park in August 2005. -
"Mekonnen was granted refugee status in August 2005"
http://www.independent.ie/irish-news/violent-rapist-has-visa-renewed-as-he-cannot-be-deported-30336581.html

Black Swan

jank wrote: »

This uber contrarian stuff is tiring after a while Nodin. Seems your single line posts are there just for the sake of it without adding anything substantive here.

MOD REMINDER:
Please focus on making meaningful contributions to the thread topic, and NOT each other. Thanks.

AlekSmart

Nodin wrote: »

An asylum seeker can't have a profession?

Perhaps reprise is nodding in the direction of a certain contradiction of an "Asylum Seeker" supposedly fleeing persecution and a real threat of death,yet working assisiously to establish,and advertise, their on-line presence over Social Media.

Some people could see this as "odd" or even unadvisable,whilst yet others could see it as evidence of no actual "fear of persecution or death" at all.

Regardless of Junior Minister O Riordán's statements on Direct Provision,the ability of substantial numbers of DP clients to maintain this on-line presence would tend to counter the somewhat OTT campaign to demonise our Asylum System .

It is noteworthy also that the Jumior Minister is less than forthcoming in details of actual ACTION in relation to this current campaign.

Reports and Working Groups are the fodder of the Civil Service,but actual action is the only way out.

The Political will to start at the beginning,by deporting those who are illegally present in Ireland is not there,as yet.

jank

Nodin wrote: »

"How thorough" presumes some universal standard of thorough against which I'm supposed to weigh the background check done against this person. The facts are that the same standard of checking that was applied to thousands of others was applied to him (there being no evidence to the contrary), nothing was found, and he was let in.

So in other words we have no idea as no information about the case has been made public. Perhaps the public deserve better.

"Bereket Mekonnen (25) received a seven-year jail term after being found guilty in 2007 of raping a 42-year-old woman in the city centre park in August 2005. -
"Mekonnen was granted refugee status in August 2005"
http://www.independent.ie/irish-news/violent-rapist-has-visa-renewed-as-he-cannot-be-deported-30336581.html

Also..

Mekonnen was granted refugee status in August 2005.

So he was granted his visa the same month where he then committed this violent act. Lovely!
I wonder which came first...

Seems like a great addition to the community alright

The sentencing of the Eritrean national for the rape was delayed several times because Mekonnen would either become very violent in court, drunk, or would remove his clothes.

On one occasion he had to be carried kicking and screaming by prison officers across the Four Courts because he was deemed too dangerous to be left in court.

He had become so aggressive that it took six prison officers to subdue him before he was forcefully restrained and carried across back to his waiting cell.

During one of his court appearances, Mekonnen was brought to the building barefoot and dressed only in his underwear.

The man is a lunatic and totally unsuitable to live freely among the public. He should be on the first plane back.

walshb

jank wrote: »

The man is a lunatic and totally unsuitable to live freely among the public. He should be on the first plane back.

No no, the poor man faces death if returned.

Seems like a great way for these countries to get rid of those that they don't want. Ship them to the EU and let the EU face the hassle.

jank

Ironically, Dublin City Council is look at prefabs at a way in alleviating the chronic housing issue regards homelessness. Someone better tell them that taking someone off the street and giving them accommodation in a prefab is against that persons human rights....

http://www.thejournal.ie/homeless-people-prefabs-1671628-Sep2014/

conorh91

Nodin wrote: »

"Minister for State at the Department of Justice Aodhán Ó Ríordáin has said he does not stand over the way direct provision...

...It would seem that whatever about the naysayers elsewhere, in Government something is believed to be wrong and will be acted on.

Ó Ríordáin is not a member of the Government.

There is no indication that the Government finds Direct Provision unacceptable.

Whatever anyone's personal beliefs on Direct Provision, the Governemnt would be extremely foolish to change the system when the UK already offers a comparable, or even a weaker, support system for asylum seekers (£36 per week, are offered less direct services). Substantially liberalizing the system, without prior movement by the UK, would result in a 'pull' of asylum seekers into this jurisdiction from across the border.

Ó Ríordáin probably is that stupid, but we have to hope the Government isnt.

Nodin

AlekSmart wrote: »

Perhaps reprise is nodding in the direction of a certain contradiction of an "Asylum Seeker" supposedly fleeing persecution and a real threat of death,yet working assisiously to establish,and advertise, their on-line presence over Social Media.

..............

Fleeing a war torn country or a militia is rather different from being a defector as in the cold war period.

Jank wrote:

.............in other words we have no idea as no information about the case has
been made public. Perhaps the public deserve better.

A judge reviewed the file. She raised no concerns.

"Mekonnen was found guilty last February of raping a 42-year-old woman at St Stephen's Green in August, 2005 and Ms Justice Clark directed at the last hearing that his refugee status file be produced and examined. This was with the consent of Mekonnen's legal team, Mr Blaise O'Carroll SC (with Ms Biggs).
Ms Justice Clark said she had now received the file from Oifig Choimisinéir Iarratais na dTeifeach and reviewed the information relating to Mekonnen's background. "

http://www.breakingnews.ie/ireland/rapist-carried-kicking-and-screaming-from-court-338053.html

reprise

Nodin wrote: »

He had no conviction before he arrived, and he was granted a visa before the rape took place.

States in the EU do not deport people to where they face death, even if that's as the result of a crime committed in that jurisdiction.

Do you think you could provide a link for this claim.

Nodin

reprise wrote: »

Do you think you could provide a link for this claim.

I already did, unless you're referring to the deportation to states that inflict the death penalty
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Extradition#Extradition_and_abduction

reprise

Nodin wrote: »

I already did, unless you're referring to the deportation to states that inflict the death penalty

Sigh.

Do you think you can provide a link sustaining your claims about the rapist?

Nodin

reprise wrote: »

Sigh.

Do you think you can provide a link sustaining your claims about the rapist?

He wouldn't have been granted the visa had the rape occurred beforehand. The Judge examined the file as shown post 246 and she raised no concerns.

reprise

Nodin wrote: »

He wouldn't have been granted the visa had the rape occurred beforehand. The Judge examined the file as shown post 246 and she raised no concerns.

That's not what you said Nodin and you still seem unable to post a link that underpins your assertions. Why so evasive?