Peter Lawrie

Mysterypunter

vienne86 wrote: »

These players are not machines.

I know, but its a joke having a man like that go on too long and embarrass himself. A couple of years ago, Jimmy Mullen and Matthew Fitzpatrick were in a battle for the silver medal in the open. Jimmy is not playing this week, I wonder did lawrie nick his invite?

Speak Now

Mysterypunter wrote: »

I know, but its a joke having a man like that go on too long and embarrass himself. A couple of years ago, Jimmy Mullen and Matthew Fitzpatrick were in a battle for the silver medal in the open. Jimmy is not playing this week, I wonder did lawrie nick his invite?

Only person that nicks invities is Poulter.

PARlance

Mysterypunter wrote: »

I know, but its a joke having a man like that go on too long and embarrass himself. A couple of years ago, Jimmy Mullen and Matthew Fitzpatrick were in a battle for the silver medal in the open. Jimmy is not playing this week, I wonder did lawrie nick his invite?

Personally I wouldn't begrudge him a year of making the most of the favouritism that was shown. He is regarded as a nice guy who has put in work for the players on tour. You could make a case for 100's of guys to get invites.

The only embarrassment is your attitude. He held his card for about 20 seasons. He only lost his full card last year and whilst he has played more than most in that position, he wasn't far off getting his card back.

Not everyone is a Rory, Jordan or Jason. About half the tour are just trying to grind out a card.

Mysterypunter

PARlance wrote: »

Personally I wouldn't begrudge him a year of making the most of the favouritism that was shown. He is regarded as a nice guy who has put in work for the players on tour. You could make a case for 100's of guys to get invites.

The only embarrassment is your attitude. He held his card for about 20 seasons. He only lost his full card last year and whilst he has played more than most in that position, he wasn't far off getting his card back.

Not everyone is a Rory, Jordan or Jason. About half the tour are just trying to grind out a card.

20 years and one win. Im not slating the chap based on anything but results. I just dont agree with the system. Countless chances and never produces. Nice guy or not is irrelevant.

FixdePitchmark

Mysterypunter wrote: »

20 years and one win. Im not slating the chap based on anything but results. I just dont agree with the system. Countless chances and never produces. Nice guy or not is irrelevant.

I agree with you - was thinking about this today .

Say Peter Lawrie won The Open by qualifying - I'd be over the moon. It has validity.

But - I've found this season by Peter a bit facepalm.

I understand it and all - you have to fight in every way possible. It is his livelihood.

But - he admitted himself - it was his own choices that caused his downfall.

In other sports we say - you underperform your gone. This does just not rest easy with me.

But - I'm sure nobody cares what I think, but can't be fully behind this, when (for example) kids train from 4am every morning on the off chance they could be in Olympics in Brazil in an unpaid sport.

So - best of luck to him.

But just wrong.

PARlance

Mysterypunter wrote: »

20 years and one win. Im not slating the chap based on anything but results. I just dont agree with the system. Countless chances and never produces. Nice guy or not is irrelevant.

I don't care if he's a nice guy or not. I mentioned that as a reason why he got more invites than others, so it's not irrelevant to that point.

There are guys that will go their whole career without a win, he's a "journeyman" golfer, no doubt.... The tour is full of them.
Results will say that he is very close to being Tour standard, so I don't see why there's any slating going on. If you followed him closely throughout the year, which I've no doubt you didn't, you would know that there were plenty of positives, a frustrating amount tbh, he was very well placed at the cut several times. He was a couple of good Saturdays away from securing his card.

If your slating him based on results, you're slating 100+ other guys on tour, your also slating one of our promising young guns, Kevin Phelan, whose record is much more or less the same as his. I suppose he's an embarrassment too? So much promise and he hasn't delivered?

Mysterypunter

Kevin Phelan probably will deliver at some stage. He has qualified for 2 US Opens. I never slated Kevin Phelan. He is only starting out more or less. Should have kept his card for sure, but will be grand in the long run.

Speak Now

Mysterypunter wrote: »

Kevin Phelan probably will deliver at some stage. He has qualified for 2 US Opens. I never slated Kevin Phelan. He is only starting out more or less. Should have kept his card for sure, but will be grand in the long run.

Disaster for Kevin today.

First Up

PARlance wrote: »

I don't care if he's a nice guy or not. I mentioned that as a reason why he got more invites than others, so it's not irrelevant to that point.

There are guys that will go their whole career without a win, he's a "journeyman" golfer, no doubt.... The tour is full of them.
Results will say that he is very close to being Tour standard, so I don't see why there's any slating going on. If you followed him closely throughout the year, which I've no doubt you didn't, you would know that there were plenty of positives, a frustrating amount tbh, he was very well placed at the cut several times. He was a couple of good Saturdays away from securing his card.

If your slating him based on results, you're slating 100+ other guys on tour, your also slating one of our promising young guns, Kevin Phelan, whose record is much more or less the same as his. I suppose he's an embarrassment too? So much promise and he hasn't delivered?

I think the point about Peter Lawrie is the number of missed opportunities. He had 27 starts this year, which is good going for someone who didn't have a full card. The guy sitting in last qualifying place had 11 starts.
You have to feel for the guy but that simply isn't good enough. His mental approach to tour school will be important.
Phelan is in a very different place.

Russman

Mysterypunter wrote: »

20 years and one win. Im not slating the chap based on anything but results. I just dont agree with the system. Countless chances and never produces. Nice guy or not is irrelevant.

What system ? The one where a sponsor decides to put hundreds of thousands or even millions of his cash into a tournament and, in return, gets to give out a few invites to said tournament ?

Hundreds of guys on tour "never produce", golf isn't like other sports where you might just need to run a bit faster.
I really can't understand the logic that suggests that any player on tour is a "waster".

Maybe someone should have told Peter all he needed to do to keep his card was play better.

PARlance

First Up wrote: »

I think the point about Peter Lawrie is the number of missed opportunities. He had 27 starts this year, which is good going for someone who didn't have a full card. The guy sitting in last qualifying place had 11 starts.
You have to feel for the guy but that simply isn't good enough. His mental approach to tour school will be important.
Phelan is in a very different place.

I brought Phelan into the mix because the poster mentioned that things should be purely based on results. Based on results, Phelan doesn't cut the mustard.
Stepping away from that context, there are obvious differences, Phelan should hopefully improve and Peter is at a stage where decline seems to have set in.

The starts issue divides opinion, personally I say fair play to him, if you go through life making more friends than enemies and giving your time for others then you deserve a bit of goodwill. 1 year of goodwill to him was perfectly reasonable imo.

I certainly feel sorry for him, I think this year was a brilliant chance to secure his card. I doubt the goodwill will continue, I think one year was enough. From hearing a few interviews throughout the year, I'm not sure he has the hunger or fight in him for a Tour School slog.

Calling him an embarrassment, as has been done (by some hacker like the rest of us) is completely out of order though. Lawrie is getting on, he doesn't show any signs of major improvement and decline is more likely...but all that said, he didn't disgrace himself this year and still showed glimpses that he isn't far off a card... a journeyman with a card, but there's no shame in that (or just falling short of that) in my eyes.

The guy in last place with 11 starts could be still in last place with 22 starts, such is the fine margin and nature of golf.

First Up

PARlance wrote: »

I brought Phelan into the mix because the poster mentioned that things should be purely based on results. Based on results, Phelan doesn't cut the mustard.
Stepping away from that context, there are obvious differences, Phelan should hopefully improve and Peter is at a stage where decline seems to have set in.

The starts issue divides opinion, personally I say fair play to him, if you go through life making more friends than enemies and giving your time for others then you deserve a bit of goodwill. 1 year of goodwill to him was perfectly reasonable imo.

I certainly feel sorry for him, I think this year was a brilliant chance to secure his card. I doubt the goodwill will continue, I think one year was enough. From hearing a few interviews throughout the year, I'm not sure he has the hunger or fight in him for a Tour School slog.

Calling him an embarrassment, as has been done (by some hacker like the rest of us) is completely out of order though. Lawrie is getting on, he doesn't show any signs of major improvement and decline is more likely...but all that said, he didn't disgrace himself this year and still showed glimpses that he isn't far off a card... a journeyman with a card, but there's no shame in that (or just falling short of that) in my eyes.

I don't begrudge him his 27 starts. I just bemoan his failure to take advantage of them.
The comparison with Phelan is unfair. Phelan is still finding his way as a touring pro and playing most of these courses for the first or second time. I don't know if he will make it or not but if you look at Justin Rose's career track, you wouldn't make a hasty judgement.

PARlance

First Up wrote: »

I don't begrudge him his 27 starts. I just bemoan his failure to take advantage of them.
The comparison with Phelan is unfair. Phelan is still finding his way as a touring pro and playing most of these courses for the first or second time. I don't know if he will make it or not but if you look at Justin Rose's career track, you wouldn't make a hasty judgement.

I wasn't making a hasty judgement, they are on opposite curves, but the poster said things should only judged on results... based on results, they are very close.
I agree with you on Phelan and I brought him into the equation to highlight that it's far too simplistic to judge someone on results for one year.

Mysterypunter

A waster in terms of wasting opportunitys. Not a waster who drinks cans every day and doesnt mind his kids. Lots of more deserving players in the game.

PARlance

Mysterypunter wrote: »

A waster in terms of wasting opportunitys. Not a waster who drinks cans every day and doesnt mind his kids. Lots of more deserving players in the game.

Let's hope he hasn't wasted the €6 million in prizemoney and the other couple of million he was bound to earn outside of that.

Russman

Mysterypunter wrote: »

A waster in terms of wasting opportunitys. Not a waster who drinks cans every day and doesnt mind his kids. Lots of more deserving players in the game.

Yes, and those players qualify for a given tournament through their ranking, order of merit position etc etc. The sponsors invites are for a sponsor to invite anyone he/she sees fit, and for whatever reason. Nobody, including Peter, is necessarily "deserving" of one of those, but he's been lucky enough to have gotten quite a lot. I don't see the issue tbh, sponsor invites player, player accepts, big deal. I guess the sponsor could have any number of reasons, friendship, sympathy, returning a favour, quid pro quo for someone else, wanting to give a player a break etc, maybe he played with him in a pro-am and wants to help. I think those 5 or 6 spots in a tournament are a pretty small price to pay for the money a sponsor brings, the deserving players have their chance with the other 150 spots in the field.

FixdePitchmark

Is an interesting one.

In fairness we wouldn't know much about it - if it wasn't an Irish man.

I'm from the camp that sport should be one of the pure meritocracies of life - but the points made about being on the tour a long time and sponsor making a big contribution to the tour, are well made.

I would just prefer - if like every other sport , you had to play the sport to qualify for the event.

But - It is a big bad world out there and contacts in life add up.

I just feel - or was told that the competition is fierce - there are hundreds of kids on the Euro Tour ready to win when they come online - hard to understand why main tour events need or could justify an invite. If the game is in such a strong place ?

A more reasonable end of career would be a gradual reduction in playing rights. It seems that the drop off is far too harsh for a guy like Peter who has played well to keep his card for as long as he has. You perhaps should establish credit over a longer period.

So - I'm not comfortable with the concept of an Invite - but the arguments from the other side have been well made.

Aidric

I doubt even Lawrie himself would argue with the title of journeyman being attributed to him.

His long career on tour has probably earned him the amount of invites he's got this year but he has squandered them massively. His game isn't there at the moment and his position on the R2D reflects that.

vienne86

I presume he is going to Q school - has that been conirmed?

denishurley

He has an exemption to the final stage at the end of this month

coylemj

denishurley wrote: »

He has an exemption to the final stage at the end of this month

He's currently 124th on the R2D rankings, only the top 60 after the BMW Masters (this week) get to play in the World Tour Championship in Dubai at the end of the month - there are no exemptions or invitations, you're either in (the top 60) or not.

There is one remaining way for him to get to Dubai and that's by playing in and finishing well up the leaderboard in the BMW Masters this week but he would only get playing with an invitation as he's way too far down the R2D rankings to get in on merit - they have currently filled three of the four available invitation slots: Justin Rose, Paul McGinley and John Daly (USA) are listed so there's one slot to be filled.

pistol_75

coylemj wrote:

There is one remaining way for him to get to Dubai and that's by playing in and finishing well up the leaderboard in the BMW Masters this week but he would only get playing with an invitation as he's way too far down the R2D rankings to get in on merit - they have currently filled three of the four available invitation slots: Justin Rose, Paul McGinley and John Daly (USA) are listed so there's one slot to be filled.

coylemj wrote:

He's currently 124th on the R2D rankings, only the top 60 after the BMW Masters (this week) get to play in the World Tour Championship in Dubai at the end of the month - there are no exemptions or invitations, you're either in (the top 60) or not.

The original poster is referring to sn excemption into the final stage of Q school.

abff

coylemj wrote: »

He's currently 124th on the R2D rankings, only the top 60 after the BMW Masters (this week) get to play in the World Tour Championship in Dubai at the end of the month - there are no exemptions or invitations, you're either in (the top 60) or not.

There is one remaining way for him to get to Dubai and that's by playing in and finishing well up the leaderboard in the BMW Masters this week but he would only get playing with an invitation as he's way too far down the R2D rankings to get in on merit - they have currently filled three of the four available invitation slots: Justin Rose, Paul McGinley and John Daly (USA) are listed so there's one slot to be filled.

Final stage of Q School.

denishurley

Yes, I was referring to the final stage of qualifying school, the post directly before mine asked the question regarding that

coylemj

denishurley wrote: »

Yes, I was referring to the final stage of qualifying school, the post directly before mine asked the question regarding that

Missed that, the page break and 15 day gap between the question and your post threw me!

vienne86

He only missed out by one stroke last year, so here's hoping he can make it.

A New earth

Playing in Q School today, 8.40 Irish Time, playing with Kenny Ferrie & Peter Whiteford

vienne86

A New earth wrote: »

Playing in Q School today, 8.40 Irish Time, playing with Kenny Ferrie & Peter Whiteford

Any way of getting score updates?

First Up

vienne86 wrote: »

Any way of getting score updates?

Suspect it will be like previous qualifying rounds where scores just posted after they finish. Doubt we'll get hole by hole updates. Nothing on ET website except tee times.
Unless someone posts news on Twitter or Facebook I'd say we just have to wait.

A New earth

No there's a full hole by hole leader board, Peter parred the first 3 holes.

http://www.europeantour.com/europeantour/qualifying/season=2015/tournamentid=2015995/leaderboard/index.html#ckczLZgRgeZmbcPa.97

vienne86

A New earth wrote: »

No there's a full hole by hole leader board, Peter parred the first 3 holes.

http://www.europeantour.com/europeantour/qualifying/season=2015/tournamentid=2015995/leaderboard/index.html#ckczLZgRgeZmbcPa.97

Updating is slow, but better than nothing.

vienne86

+4 for Peter today. I would say that that seems to be that.

abff

He's 10 over after 12 holes today and in last place on 13 over. Difficult to see where he can go from here, but I guess his Category 16 membership would get him a few starts next season.

Speak Now

abff wrote: »

He's 10 over after 12 holes today and in last place on 13 over. Difficult to see where he can go from here, but I guess his Category 16 membership would get him a few starts next season.

Better Category than last season I suppose although with Sponsors invites he was practically on a full card.

vienne86

Jerry Seinfeld wrote: »

Better Category than last season I suppose although with Sponsors invites he was practically on a full card.

He had lots of chances to get himself a card for this season. He's +13 for today. Very hard to figure out what is going on with him.

Speak Now

vienne86 wrote: »

He had lots of chances to get himself a card for this season. He's +13 for today. Very hard to figure out what is going on with him.

Looks like he shot 86 and NR.

vienne86

Jerry Seinfeld wrote: »

Looks like he shot 86 and NR.

Disqualified is what it says. I wonder what happened.

pistol_75

vienne86 wrote: »

Disqualified is what it says. I wonder what happened.

He wasn't happy with a drop he took according to reports. Could be another way of saying get me to hell out of here :cool:

abff

pistol_75 wrote: »

He wasn't happy with a drop he took according to reports. Could be another way of saying get me to hell out of here :cool:

Sad end to the season for him.

pistol_75

Quote from interview.

"I won't give up," said Lawrie, who expects to get around 22 starts next year - having finishing 124th in the Race to Dubai - on the back of receiving some 17 sponsors' invitations.

"I have never been a giver-upper, so I will carry on and I will play next year though apart from the Irish Open, I won't be seeking invites. I have had my fair share and it's time for somebody else to get them."

vienne86

pistol_75 wrote: »

Quote from interview.

"I won't give up," said Lawrie, who expects to get around 22 starts next year - having finishing 124th in the Race to Dubai - on the back of receiving some 17 sponsors' invitations.

"I have never been a giver-upper, so I will carry on and I will play next year though apart from the Irish Open, I won't be seeking invites. I have had my fair share and it's time for somebody else to get them."

Fair enough - he got a great lot of invites this year.

A New earth

Alfred Dunhill Championship in South Africa.

Peter began the first event of the 2016 season hoping for a change in his fortunes but after opening with a triple bogey seven and a 79 on Thursday, he didn’t tee it up in round two due to food poisoning.
That brought a disappointing year to an end, even though it marked the start of the new European Tour season.
Peter failed to win back his full card at Q-School and while he’ll still get around 20 starts next season as he's got the same category as Phelan and Ruaidhri McGee) for 2016 despite missing out at PGA Catalunya

vienne86

A New earth wrote: »

Alfred Dunhill Championship in South Africa.

Peter began the first event of the 2016 season hoping for a change in his fortunes but after opening with a triple bogey seven and a 79 on Thursday, he didn’t tee it up in round two due to food poisoning.
That brought a disappointing year to an end, even though it marked the start of the new European Tour season.
Peter failed to win back his full card at Q-School and while he’ll still get around 20 starts next season as he's got the same category as Phelan and Ruaidhri McGee) for 2016 despite missing out at PGA Catalunya

Thanks for that - unfortunate start to the season.

denishurley

Peter's first event since the Dunhill is in the Tshwane Open in Pretoria, starting tomorrow

Speak Now

denishurley wrote: »

Peter's first event since the Dunhill is in the Tshwane Open in Pretoria, starting tomorrow

+ 6 after round 1.

vienne86

Speak Now wrote: »

+ 6 after round 1.

That's very disappointing. He just can't seem to get it together. I wonder is it time to retire.

The Premier Man

Finished +12...last year he looked promising in several early season tournaments especially on the Thursday and Friday, seemed to fall away over the weekend but this year has got off to an awful start.Missing the cut by around 9 shots really must destroy your confidence

First Up

The Premier Man wrote: »

Finished +12...last year he looked promising in several early season tournaments especially on the Thursday and Friday, seemed to fall away over the weekend but this year has got off to an awful start.Missing the cut by around 9 shots really must destroy your confidence

Bad day all round for the Irish boys. Phelan blew it after getting into a good position and will miss by one. McGee withdrew.

vienne86

Very disappointing week for the Irish in South Africa - at least we have plenty of interest in the PGA tour this week.

Goldenjohn

Looking at he Stats for the 2 days ....driving 10/28 fairways hit and scrambling 4/18. Cant seem to build any platform off the tee.