Common Practice - Bank Statements?

The_Morrigan

murphaph wrote: »

A quick check reveals that AIB will require at least one original statement in the 6 months statements when applying for a mortgage. I don't make the rules! I did say "often" and not "always". Perhaps you got lucky with the bank you applied to for your mortgage. I have read this several times on forums that folks have been requested to produce original statements.

Link to pdf

KBC the same:
Link

In fairness now Murphaph, there is a caveat on the AIB one, it is only applicable to non-AIB customers and KBC are new to the market so the assumption is that they are treating all loan applications as new customers and covering themselves under KYC procedures at the same time.

I've banked with BOI & PTSB and they have accepted electronic statements/e-bills for any lending application. In fact they have accepted the electronic correspondence from the savings/current accounts in the opposing/rival bank with no question.

murphaph

Obviously if you already bank with Acme Bank Limited then they will be able to check the authenticity of your statements directly as they have access to your account information, so they shouldn't really need statements at all.

KBC are not new to the mortgage lending market in Ireland by the way. They are new to the current account market. They've offered mortgages in Ireland for decades.

ec18

The months transactions that i've downloaded from BOI are in CSV format so no headed paper or branding even :S

The_Morrigan

ec18 wrote: »

The months transactions that i've downloaded from BOI are in CSV format so no headed paper or branding even :S

There is a statement section on 365 that has the header.

ec18

Just an update I provided redacted bank statements. Everything was blacked out bar what was relevant to my current apartment(Salary, rent, Utilities) but the landlord/letting agent has come back saying that they need to see the full transaction history for two months

indigo twist

ec18 wrote: »

Just an update I provided redacted bank statements. Everything was blacked out bar what was relevant to my current apartment(Salary, rent, Utilities) but the landlord/letting agent has come back saying that they need to see the full transaction history for two months

That is bull. It is none of their business whatsoever. Look elsewhere. It is NONE of their business what you do with the rest of your money. If I were in your position, I'd be writing a very strongly worded letter to that person, copying in every superviser/manager you can find, and ideally the homeowner if you have their email address. Outline how you are an ideal tenant, and explain why you won't deal with that particular agency again, and explain exactly why. Also mention the fact that you'll be blacklisting them to your acquaintances.

If, after you've paid your rent and bills, you choose to spend every last cent on hookers and booze - none of their business! So long as you're paying the rent and bills and keeping the house well.

I wouldn't rent from them because I've a feeling they'd probably want to inspect the property on a monthly basis or even more! Not worth the hassle.

ec18

indigo twist wrote: »

That is bull. It is none of their business whatsoever. Look elsewhere. It is NONE of their business what you do with the rest of your money. If I were in your position, I'd be writing a very strongly worded letter to that person, copying in every supervisor/manager you can find, and ideally the homeowner if you have their email address. Outline how you are an ideal tenant, and explain why you won't deal with that particular agency again, and explain exactly why. Also mention the fact that you'll be blacklisting them to your acquaintances.

If, after you've paid your rent and bills, you choose to spend every last cent on hookers and booze - none of their business! So long as you're paying the rent and bills and keeping the house well.

I wouldn't rent from them because I've a feeling they'd probably want to inspect the property on a monthly basis or even more! Not worth the hassle.

To be honest I'm not that bothered about the place anymore I'm just going to look elsewhere. It's not worth the hassle or effort

makeorbrake

indigo twist wrote:

That is bull. It is none of their business whatsoever. Look elsewhere. It is NONE of their business what you do with the rest of your money. If, after you've paid your rent and bills, you choose to spend every last cent on hookers and booze - none of their business! So long as you're paying the rent and bills and keeping the house well.

If you've spent cash on hookers and booze, nobody's remotely interested. However, if you've spent "every last cent" - on anything each month - be that hookers n booze or anything else, then that's very much relevant to a LL.


This is normal practice across the water - start getting used to it because it will become standard practice here eventually - regardless of your protests.

Taco Chips

makeorbrake wrote: »

If you've spent cash on hookers and booze, nobody's remotely interested. However, if you've spent "every last cent" - on anything each month - be that hookers n booze or anything else, then that's very much relevant to a LL.


This is normal practice across the water - start getting used to it because it will become standard practice here eventually - regardless of your protests.

It's a gross invasion of privacy. I would definitely refer to Data Protection Commission and refuse to deal with such an agency. Regardless of where it might be normal practice, that doesn't make it correct or sustainable.

makeorbrake

makeorbrake wrote: »

This is normal practice across the water - start getting used to it because it will become standard practice here eventually - regardless of your protests.

If it is common it shouldn't be. An estate agent/LL has absolutely no business having any access at all to a persons private bank statements never mind requesting to see the entire statement not just the relevant bits (salary in and previous rent out).

Bank statements are a private and personal thing and shouldn't be just handed over to any old clown.

ec18

My issue is more of who I'm handing over bank statements to. In essence I am handing over some of my most private details to a private individual or company that is in no way regulated as to how they handle that data.

ec18

ec18 wrote: »

My issue is more of who I'm handing over bank statements to. In essence I am handing over some of my most private details to a private individual or company that is in no way regulated as to how they handle that data.

Yes of course, handing over a bank statement to another financial institution or similar which has clear guidelines in how to deal with private documents is of course fine (and necessary for different things). Handing it over to basically a random person on the street (which is all an LL or estate agent is) is a different matter entirely.

makeorbrake

Taco Chips wrote: »

Regardless of where it might be normal practice, that doesn't make it correct or sustainable.

Sound. And in a few years time, you can select from a non existant pool of properties that are available without producing bank statements.

I understand it's personal data. However, there is a reason why they are requesting it - and that reason is not to have a nose. I doubt they care what you spend your money on so long as they see you#re managing your finances and not living from week to week....ergo...there's less of a likelihood of you defaulting on your rent.


The other way round that is that an independent body holds deposits and also checks bank statements, etc. However, that's simply something that can't be considered whilst it would be an organisation like the prtb that would be doing it!

makeorbrake

makeorbrake wrote: »

Sound. And in a few years time, you can select from a non existant pool of properties that are available without producing bank statements.

Avoiding rubbish like that is another thing to add to the list of why buying is far better than renting long term.

That said I'd be surprised if it takes off here as far too many people will refuse to give statements to random LL's, whats in a bank statement is none of their business.

Mikros

It sounds like a grossly disproportionate request for your personal data. The Data Protection Acts require that only the minimum necessary personal data should be sought and used to allow for the performance of the function to which it relates.

A bank statement can contain a huge amount of sensitive information - especially if you pay for a lot of things using a debit card or bank transfers. I would say things like payments related to your health, to your own personal beliefs (e.g. payments to religious and political organisations) and what you do for fun would be considered "sensitive personal data" under the law which gives you even more rights.

I would be referring it to the Data Protection Commissioner and refusing to deal with such a request.

makeorbrake

Mikros wrote: »

It sounds like a grossly disproportionate request for your personal data. The Data Protection Acts require that only the minimum necessary personal data should be sought and used to allow for the performance of the function to which it relates.

A bank statement can contain a huge amount of sensitive information - especially if you pay for a lot of things using a debit card or bank transfers. I would say things like payments related to your health, to your own personal beliefs (e.g. payments to religious and political organisations) and what you do for fun would be considered "sensitive personal data" under the law which gives you even more rights.

I would be referring it to the Data Protection Commissioner and refusing to deal with such a request.

No problem - then redact the bits that are not relevant. The whole purpose (and whether you like it or not, LLs have a purpose in requesting this info) is to determine if the prospective tenant is keeping his head above water. Redact the descriptions beside each transaction with the exception of salary/wages. For those that don't want to provide the running balance and salary details, then go and look at another property where this isn't a requirement....end of

Noah Shaggy Whimsy wrote:

That said I'd be surprised if it takes off here as far too many people will refuse to give statements to random LL's, whats in a bank statement is none of their business.

Well, it 'took off' in the UK and although not always the case, they are generally more progressive than we are with many things. You think that the brits just give away their data OR do they do so in this instance in the knowledge that its necessary i.e. theres a genuine purpose. Of course, we can continue to disregard that totally......

Mikros

makeorbrake wrote: »

No problem - then redact the bits that are not relevant. The whole purpose (and whether you like it or not, LLs have a purpose in requesting this info) is to determine if the prospective tenant is keeping his head above water. Redact the descriptions beside each transaction with the exception of salary/wages. For those that don't want to provide the running balance and salary details, then go and look at another property where this isn't a requirement....end of

I understand the purpose in looking for the information, and think a redacted statement is one compromise in the absence of any other way for a landlord to check tenants credit worthiness. But the OP already said the agent wouldn't accept a redacted statement. My post was in response to requesting a full statement - and in that regard I think they are outside the Data Protection Acts - IMO of course.

makeorbrake

Mikros wrote: »

But the OP already said the agent wouldn't accept a redacted statement. My post was in response to requesting a full statement - and in that regard I think they are outside the Data Protection Acts - IMO of course.

My bad - missed that. In that case, I agree - and think they are being unreasonable.

Tarzana

ec18 wrote: »

Just an update I provided redacted bank statements. Everything was blacked out bar what was relevant to my current apartment(Salary, rent, Utilities) but the landlord/letting agent has come back saying that they need to see the full transaction history for two months

Don't do it, man! (or woman) I know it's a competitive market out there, but what they're requesting is far too much. As long as they can see that you consistently are paid and pay rent, then that's all they should need.

indigo twist

The funny thing is, the landlords who have these unreasonable requirements like two months deposit and full bank statements etc ... They might think it's going to ensure that they get the "best" tenants, but it's not. The "best" tenants will always go for the property which comes with reasonable requirements.

Last two times we were looking (quite recently) it was in a very high-demand area. Several other families were also viewing the same houses. We were pretty much ideal tenants - good references, two permanent jobs, nice people, working professionals, non-smokers, no pets or kids (at the time.) We were given first refusal on all properties we viewed; in fact, one landlord offered us a reduced rent when we declined - even though they'd have easily gotten the full advertised rent from someone else.

If any landlord had asked us for full bank statements - not a hope in hell. We'd have looked elsewhere.

I'm aware it's a landlord's market at the moment - but the "best" tenants will still have their choice of places to rent. And will expect reasonable terms. If I'm viewing two identical properties, one is looking for a months deposit and verifiable references, the other is looking for two months deposits and verifiable references and full bank statements ... of course I'll choose the first; who wouldn't?! So the landlords with unreasonable requirements are left with the "dodgier" tenants who couldn't get offered the better places.

ec18

Tarzana wrote: »

Don't do it, man! (or woman) I know it's a competitive market out there, but what they're requesting is far too much. As long as they can see that you consistently are paid and pay rent, then that's all they should need.

I'm not going to provide the data and am looking elsewhere

gaius c

makeorbrake wrote: »

If you've spent cash on hookers and booze, nobody's remotely interested. However, if you've spent "every last cent" - on anything each month - be that hookers n booze or anything else, then that's very much relevant to a LL.


This is normal practice across the water - start getting used to it because it will become standard practice here eventually - regardless of your protests.

Something that's relevant to a tenant is if the landlord is paying their mortgage but I doubt tenants getting copies of the landlord's mortgage statements will become common practice either.

gaius c

murphaph wrote: »

In Germany a landlord doesn't need to see bank statements except in rare cases. This is because here they have a proper credit rating system that issues people with % scores. Landlords won't take anyone with a poor credit rating. In addition, it is generally requested to provide a statement from the previous landlord that no rent is outstanding (mietschuldenfreiheitsbescheinigung). Landlords won't issue them to tenants who owe them money obviously.

When such systems are absent, as in Ireland, landlords must protect themselves some other way. Bank statements are a really useful indicator of at least raw ability to pay. If, for example, the applicant had no salary on his bank statement, it would raise eyebrows.

Out of curiosity, is it all one way traffic? Do tenants get to check their prospective landlord's credit score?

wonski

gaius c wrote: »

Out of curiosity, is it all one way traffic? Do tenants get to check their prospective landlord's credit score?

I doubt it.

Years ago I had to agree to have a credit check run on me in the UK (letting agency). It was a standard procedure at that time.

I wouldn't be happy to give them bank statements, though.

Employer's and previous landlord's references should suffice.

makeorbrake

gaius c wrote:

Something that's relevant to a tenant is if the landlord is paying their mortgage but I doubt tenants getting copies of the landlord's mortgage statements will become common practice either.

Sounds reasonable to me (to make them available). What's the big deal?


The only reason I agree with the op in this case is that they wont accept redacted statements.

Grandpa Hassan

Credit checks on tenants plus bank statements are standard in the UK if renting through an agent. Whether they'd accept redacted ones, I don't know. But the credit check is a big deal.....fail, and the chances of you renting through a reputable agency is zero