Missing Great grandfather

Pretzill

Hello new to the forum - (not new to tracing but hitting dead ends!!)

This specifically in relation to my Great Grandfather who seems to have a chequered history. James Lydon born circa 1867 in Vctoria Australia ( I've traced as far back as his mother and father Dad Micheal born circa 1829 Co Sligo - travelled to Australia in 1860 met his Wife had 3 children and came back home in 1874 -

Thing is Great Grandad lived and married in Ireland but travelled to.the US three times - I have him on the Ellis Island records - however the last date of travel 1911 leaving wife and 5 kids here - he never returned - strong family rumour is he died or was killed in the US sometime between 1911 - 1914 - but although I can find many James Lydons through the LDS records ( last known residence Philadelphia) I can't find any with the same combination of Mother/Father/ Wife names and most importantly place of birth which should narrow it down.

Sorry for the rambling post...but where do I go from here re: American search? I thought about enlisting but he near 40 in 1911 so maybe too old. Thing is the strong rumour was a fight in which he died are there any routes to investigate further?

TIA and looking forward to having a look around here.

Coolnabacky1873

What was the name and address he put down for relative/friend on the passenger list and what port did he arrive into?

Shur while I am asking, what was the same information for the first two trips?

L1011

Newspaper records can often be of help if you've got a rumoured death and cause thereof, but there's not really one cohesive newspaper source for the US - it may be an idea to look for ones that match where the potential death records are from. Our resident US expert (above ^ ) may know the best places to look for specific areas papers.

Deaths by brawls would, then as now, usually be reported in papers.

Pretzill

Ah cr*p - up until a few days ago I was able to search Ellis Island.org for free - now they won't recognise my email addy, username or password when I went to reregister all my saved searches were gone - from what I can remember - 1899 travelled on the Teutonic stayed in NY - 1904 stayed in NY and 1911 stayed with a cousin in Philadelphia - unfortunately I'm only getting scant information now - and would have to pay 30 dollars to look at the manifest - This probably won't help you but thanks for looking for the info and so quickly responding.

And MYOB yeah I have had no luck regarding brawl deaths or newspapers - because tbh I don't know where it happened - rumoured to be NY though he was travelling to Philadelphia in 1911. Thanks guys

Pretzill

P.s I'm so peeved I didn't take screenshots of the manifests when I had the chance - have a lot of relatives who travelled through Ellis Island - and I know charging for this info is lucrative but I always respected Ellis island.org for letting you look at the manifests for free before you considered buying.

Tbh I started researching the tree about a decade ago and have tried to do it as much as possible without incurring costs - looks like I'll have to prise open the wallet to carry on further. I'm stuck too with the destroyed records and at ggg maternal and just gg on my dads side.

L1011

Welcome to the most frustrating and expensive hobby you'll ever have!

Pretzill

MYOB wrote: »

Welcome to the most frustrating and expensive hobby you'll ever have!

Yeah but it is so interesting!! I had some help with the australian side which was great - the goldrush in victoria is now becoming an obsession

Coolnabacky1873

They just totally redesigned the Ellis Island site; that would be terrible if all your searches are permanently lost.

So, for NYC I had a look at the death cert indexes, New York Times and Brooklyn Eagle newspaper. Nothing really stood out in the newspapers and the only death index that had some potential (based on name and approx age) was:
James Layton, age 42, died 16 Jan 1915 in Brooklyn. It's just one year outside your estimate and you can guarantee there will be all sorts of spelling variations for Lydon. NYC death certs are not online.

I'm not as well versed with Philadelphia but if you consulted Familysearch, I presume you consulted the Pennsylvania, Philadelphia City Death Certificates, 1803-1915 database.

For finding out what newspapers are digitized consult: UPenn guide and ICON.

Other than that, even a 4 year window and not knowing the state sure makes it difficult. It's such a huge country with so many Irish immigrants.

Coolnabacky1873

To be specific about the question you asked:

From 1911, I would consult Phil and NYC city directories to try and get a trace on him. He might not appear until the 1913 editions but check from 1912. If you do get a trace on him, keep tracking him year by year until he disappears. If you get lucky with that, then he might have died anytime in the previous 12 months.

Pretzill

Coolnabacky1873 wrote: »

They just totally redesigned the Ellis Island site; that would be terrible if all your searches are permanently lost.

So, for NYC I had a look at the death cert indexes, New York Times and Brooklyn Eagle newspaper. Nothing really stood out in the newspapers and the only death index that had some potential (based on name and approx age) was:
James Layton, age 42, died 16 Jan 1915 in Brooklyn. It's just one year outside your estimate and you can guarantee there will be all sorts of spelling variations for Lydon. NYC death certs are not online.

I'm not as well versed with Philadelphia but if you consulted Familysearch, I presume you consulted the Pennsylvania, Philadelphia City Death Certificates, 1803-1915 database.

For finding out what newspapers are digitized consult: UPenn guide and ICON.

Other than that, even a 4 year window and not knowing the state sure makes it difficult. It's such a huge country with so many Irish immigrants.

Thanks so much for this. Yes the name variation anything from Leydan - Layton - even Liddon. And your 1915 could be a link all I know is my granny who was in an Industrial School after her da left - reckon her mum couldn't cope and most of the children were taken from her - she remembers been told her father had died whilst she was a child - on the 1911 census she was 10 going on 11 and I presume would have left the home at max 18 - so it could be between 1911 and 1918 his death. I will check out your links ta.

Still peeved over losing all my ellis searches 8 grand aunts/uncles and gg 3 times through. Oh well as I said a lucrative market this genealogical biz but so addictive.