What about moving the Dublin Footballers to Ulster

gormdubhgorm

It would give an even number of counties in both leinster and ulster.
Also it would even up leinster take Dublin out of leinster and suddenly it is way more competitive.
Dublin fans would not have to see other leinster teams be demoralized and hammered.
There would be a huge buzz and entertainment throughout the season, Dublin supporters would not have to wait until August before they get a decent game.
Dublin may get knocked out very early and have to go the qualifier route, huge boost for the economy outside Dublin.


I know it will probably never happen but it would be some craic.:eek:

thoker

Better idea to split Dublin in two natural enemies North and South?. Dublin has thousands of players and that's why they are dominating, how many players have say Carlow to choose form?

Dirty Dingus McGee

Dublin destroyed the second best team in ulster this years so they would have to wait until they played Donegal before they get a good match in Ulster.The overall standard in ulster is only marginally better than in Leinster.

dxhound2005

gormdubhgorm wrote: »

It would give an even number of counties in both leinster and ulster.
Also it would even up leinster take Dublin out of leinster and suddenly it is way more competitive.
Dublin fans would not have to see other leinster teams be demoralized and hammered.
There would be a huge buzz and entertainment throughout the season, Dublin supporters would not have to wait until August before they get a decent game.
Dublin may get knocked out very early and have to go the qualifier route, huge boost for the economy outside Dublin.


I know it will probably never happen but it would be some craic.:eek:

There is no reason to think that Leinster would suddenly become way more comptetive. A look at the Roll of Honour will show that Dublin and Meath have always dominated with only an occasional incursion from other counties in the last 30 years. Who would suddenly emerge from the perennial also rans?

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Leinster_Senior_Football_Championship#Roll_of_honour

Pipjam

Dirty Dingus McGee wrote: »

Dublin destroyed the second best team in ulster this years so they would have to wait until they played Donegal before they get a good match in Ulster.The overall standard in ulster is only marginally better than in Leinster.

What makes Monaghan the "second best team in ulster"?

Derry and Tyrone both operated in Division 1 of the League this year. Monaghan didn't.

Tyrone made an All Ireland semi final last year and beat Monaghan en route.

Armagh went further than Monaghan this year. Incidentally, where would they come in your ranking of Ulster counties? I'm from Meath, who made the last three Leinster finals, and Armagh beat us quite easily.

Ulster will have four teams in Div 1 next year. Leinster only 1.

Dirty Dingus McGee

Pipjam wrote: »

What makes Monaghan the "second best team in ulster"?

Derry and Tyrone both operated in Division 1 of the League this year. Monaghan didn't.

Tyrone made an All Ireland semi final last year and beat Monaghan en route.

Armagh went further than Monaghan this year.

Ulster will have four teams in Div 1 next year. Leinster only 1.

Monaghan have got to the AI quarter final in the last 2 years and are the last team from Ulster to beat Donegal.They have had 2 consistent years back to back which other teams in ulster (apart from Donegal) haven't been able to do.

freddiek

Dublin posters on Boards regularly say they'd love to get the opportunity to travel for championship games so why not put them to the test??

gormdubhgorm

dxhound2005 wrote: »

There is no reason to think that Leinster would suddenly become way more comptetive. A look at the Roll of Honour will show that Dublin and Meath have always dominated with only an occasional incursion from other counties in the last 30 years. Who would suddenly emerge from the perennial also rans?

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Leinster_Senior_Football_Championship#Roll_of_honour

Meath are not the same animal like they were in the 80's and 90's.
I think if you take Dublin out of leinster it would be very even between Kildare, Meath and Wexford. Throw in Laois/Louth for the odd final appearance and it becomes very interesting.

Carlow and Wicklow would have a lot more chance of appearing in a final if Dublin were taken out and they happened to be in the eaasier side of the draw avoiding Kildare/Meath. Imagine what it would mean to those counties. I remember how devastated Louth were when they were robbed in the final v Meath in 2010.

Hibbeler

Is this a wind up?

dxhound2005

gormdubhgorm wrote: »

Meath are not the same animal like they were in the 80's and 90's.
I think if you take Dublin out of leinster it would be very even between Kildare, Meath and Wexford. Throw in Laois/Louth for the odd final appearance and it becomes very interesting.

Carlow and Wicklow would have a lot more chance of appearing in a final if Dublin were taken out and they happened to be in the eaasier side of the draw avoiding Kildare/Meath. Imagine what it would mean to those counties. I remember how devastated Louth were when they were robbed in the final v Meath in 2010.

I don't think there is an argument for trying to make things more equal in Leinster unless you also make them more equal in Munster and Connacht. Where most counties are also perennial losers. Kerry have far more Munsters than Dublin have Leinsters. The obvious change would be 4 x 8 by moving a few counties into their neighbouring province but this would make things even easier for Dublin.

Pipjam

Dirty Dingus McGee wrote: »

Monaghan have got to the AI quarter final in the last 2 years and are the last team from Ulster to beat Donegal.They have had 2 consistent years back to back which other teams in ulster (apart from Donegal) haven't been able to do.

I'm a Meath supporter and in the last two years I have watched Meath lose to Cavan, Monaghan x 3, Tyrone and Arnagh x 2.

For me there is a big difference between Ulster and Leinster.

corny

thoker wrote: »

Better idea to split Dublin in two natural enemies North and South?. Dublin has thousands of players and that's why they are dominating, how many players have say Carlow to choose form?

Did i ****ing miss something.

sammy37

Also if kerry and cork were moved to connaught with leitrim and sligo moving to munster along with antrim going to leinster. Down could go down to munster and meath back over to connaught. That should even up all the provinces and we would then have a proper provincial championship.

dxhound2005

sammy37 wrote: »

Also if kerry and cork were moved to connaught with leitrim and sligo moving to munster along with antrim going to leinster. Down could go down to munster and meath back over to connaught. That should even up all the provinces and we would then have a proper provincial championship.

Radical.

Stabshauptmann

Personally, I find the provincial structure archaic

thelad95

Sure why not move Roscommon footballers to Leinster and Cork hurlers to Leinster. Am I doing this right..?

Even if the hypothetical situation did arrive, Dublin would still end up playing all their games in Croker...

dxhound2005

thelad95 wrote: »

Sure why not move Roscommon footballers to Leinster and Cork hurlers to Leinster. Am I doing this right..?

Even if the hypothetical situation did arrive, Dublin would still end up playing all their games in Croker...

No, you're doing it all wrong. Hurling is competely different.

Mal-Adjusted

In 3/4 of the country the provinces are broken as there is one clearly dominant force that will essentially cruise through. The thing is, they're still going to be there at the business end of the season regardless of structural changes. Hypothetically speaking in order to even up the provinces, you could just disband Ulster and scatter them throughout the other three competitions. (and i'm not saying i'm in favor of this, just thinking out loud)

Amprodude

gormdubhgorm wrote: »

It would give an even number of counties in both leinster and ulster.
Also it would even up leinster take Dublin out of leinster and suddenly it is way more competitive.
Dublin fans would not have to see other leinster teams be demoralized and hammered.
There would be a huge buzz and entertainment throughout the season, Dublin supporters would not have to wait until August before they get a decent game.
Dublin may get knocked out very early and have to go the qualifier route, huge boost for the economy outside Dublin.


I know it will probably never happen but it would be some craic.:eek:

Then you would have the problem of Dublin not coming out of Ulster.

dxhound2005

Mal-Adjusted wrote: »

In 3/4 of the country the provinces are broken as there is one clearly dominant force that will essentially cruise through (2 in Munster). The thing is, they're still going to be there at the business end of the season regardless of structural changes. Hypothetically speaking in order to even up the provinces, you could just disband Ulster and scatter them throughout the other three competitions. (and i'm not saying i'm in favor of this, just thinking out loud)

Just a small point of correction, but it doesn't really matter since as you say this is a pointless discussion.

The two horse race is really in Connacht where both Mayo and Galway have more provincial championships than Cork have in Munster. Galway also have more All Irelands than Cork 9 against 7. Meath also have 7. Cork are not really a force in historical terms compared to Kerry and Dublin.

Mal-Adjusted

dxhound2005 wrote: »

Just a small point of correction, but it doesn't really matter since as you say this is a pointless discussion.

The two horse race is really in Connacht where both Mayo and Galway have more provincial championships than Cork have in Munster. Galway also have more All Irelands than Cork 9 against 7. Meath also have 7. Cork are not really a force in historical terms compared to Kerry and Dublin.

point taken, post edited

Godge

thoker wrote: »

Better idea to split Dublin in two natural enemies North and South?. Dublin has thousands of players and that's why they are dominating, how many players have say Carlow to choose form?

And if Donegal win the All-Ireland this year will you be suggesting splitting them in two because they have won two All-Irelands in three years?

People won't be able to have it both ways. Either Donegal should be split in two as well or Donegal are undeserving winners.

gormdubhgorm

thelad95 wrote: »

Sure why not move Roscommon footballers to Leinster and Cork hurlers to Leinster. Am I doing this right..?

Even if the hypothetical situation did arrive, Dublin would still end up playing all their games in Croker...

In hurling they have already moved Antrim and Galway into leinster so I fail to see how you seem to think this is far fetched.

Hibbeler

gormdubhgorm wrote: »

In hurling they have already moved Antrim and Galway into leinster so I fail to see how you seem to think this is far fetched.

The situation in hurling was completely different. Galway and Antrim basically had no provincial championship to compete in at all. The benefits of letting them play in Leinster were a no brainer.

In football the only logical changes I can see being made to the provincials would be to either make the provinces even numbers or to do away with them altogether. Suggesting moving Dublin into Ulster is in my opinion not only illogical and ridiculous, it is an insult to the other remaining Leinster counties

gormdubhgorm

Hibbeler wrote: »

The situation in hurling was completely different. Galway and Antrim basically had no provincial championship to compete in at all. The benefits of letting them play in Leinster were a no brainer.

In football the only logical changes I can see being made to the provincials would be to either make the provinces even numbers or to do away with them altogether. Suggesting moving Dublin into Ulster is in my opinion not only illogical and ridiculous, it is an insult to the other remaining Leinster counties

Personally I don't think it is an insult to the remaining Leinster counties. Leinster has become a joke competitively. Bar the 2010 one off where Meath won against Louth. Lienster is a one horse race.
I think the quality of Leinster is harming the development of this potentially great Dublin team. This year they were not tested until September. Leinster was not in the least bit entertaining for Dublin supporters the sizes of the crowds showed this. Also for the neutrals the games were non-events.

Imagine the interest if Dublin were put in Ulster it would be massive.

Hotfail.com

gormdubhgorm wrote: »

Personally I don't think it is an insult to the remaining Leinster counties. Leinster has become a joke competitively. Bar the 2010 one off where Meath won against Louth. Lienster is a one horse race.
I think the quality of Leinster is harming the development of this potentially great Dublin team. This year they were not tested until September. Leinster was not in the least bit entertaining for Dublin supporters the sizes of the crowds showed this. Also for the neutrals the games were non-events.

Imagine the interest if Dublin were put in Ulster it would be massive.

Mayo have it just as "easy" in Connacht, and Kerry often do as well in Munster because Cork collapse so often when they're playing them.

Pipjam

Hotfail.com wrote: »

Mayo have it just as "easy" in Connacht, and Kerry often do as well in Munster because Cork collapse so often when they're playing them.

Have Mayo or Kerry only lost one competitive game in their province in the last decade? The poster above is right. I'm from Leinster myself and the standard apart from Dublin is embarrassing.

dxhound2005

Pipjam wrote: »

Have Mayo or Kerry only lost one competitive game in their province in the last decade? The poster above is right. I'm from Leinster myself and the standard apart from Dublin is embarrassing.

If someone looked at Leinster from 1974 to 1985 they would see a very similar thing. Dublin won 9 out of those 12 and only failed to make the final in one of those years. They also won 6 in a row which the teams of the last 10 years have not done. I would give it another 10 years to see what develops. It won't be the end of the world if Leinster becomes a one team province. It really has always been Dublin with Meath lagging far behind and the rest perennial also rans anyway.

The theory that Dublin are some now sort of super team was knocked on the head by Donegal. Don't assume that their recent dominance in Leinster will necessarily continue.

freddiek

I'd like to see the back of the Provincial football championships. Even in Ulster Donegal are now forging ahead.


Anyone think its days are numbered??

dxhound2005

freddiek wrote: »

I'd like to see the back of the Provincial football championships. Even in Ulster Donegal are now forging ahead.


Anyone think its days are numbered??

Cavan won 17 out of 19 Ulsters from 1931 to 1949. But that didn't lead to the championship being abandoned and other teams emerged since. Two big teams have always dominated in the other three provinces. There is nothing new in recent times compared to the longer view so I doubt the format will be abandoned.

freddiek

dxhound2005 wrote: »

Cavan won 17 out of 19 Ulsters from 1931 to 1949. But that didn't lead to the championship being abandoned and other teams emerged since. Two big teams have always dominated in the other three provinces. There is nothing new in recent times compared to the longer view so I doubt the format will be abandoned.

the GAA have always moved slowly when it comes to change. I'm not going to say the system is satisfactory just because that is the way things have always been done.

I think players these days want more out of the sport than pulling on your county jersey in a championship match and getting mauled by a much stronger side. Its no fun for them or spectators.

its time to get innovative with regard to the format for the football championship.

dxhound2005

freddiek wrote: »

the GAA have always moved slowly when it comes to change. I'm not going to say the system is satisfactory just because that is the way things have always been done.

I think players these days want more out of the sport than pulling on your county jersey in a championship match and getting mauled by a much stronger side. Its no fun for them or spectators.

its time to get innovative with regard to the format for the football championship.

The most a bad team will get is two games in the Championship. What can you suggest to change that? There really is no interest in secondary competitions giving the losers another go. There already is a league where teams in theory play against comparable opposition.

GAA is unusual in that the league is the secondary competition with the knockout competition being the primary one. And if anyone was starting from scratch they would not make that into a 12/9/6/5 format with a couple of teams from abroad thrown in. But I still think there would be major resistance to any move to do away with provincial championships.

Hibbeler

gormdubhgorm wrote: »

Personally I don't think it is an insult to the remaining Leinster counties. Leinster has become a joke competitively. Bar the 2010 one off where Meath won against Louth. Lienster is a one horse race.
I think the quality of Leinster is harming the development of this potentially great Dublin team. This year they were not tested until September. Leinster was not in the least bit entertaining for Dublin supporters the sizes of the crowds showed this. Also for the neutrals the games were non-events.

Imagine the interest if Dublin were put in Ulster it would be massive.

The insult is that you are basically saying to the likes of Meath and Kildare in particular that just because you're not good enough to beat Dublin now at this moment in time, then what's the point in even letting you try. And all this in spite of the historical evidence which shows that Meath have also had their periods of dominance in Leinster.

As a Meath supporter I'm not going to gloss over the fact that we've been severely underperforming in the last decade or so, but I for one believe that all the current problems in Meath football are fixable. I think we have the basis of a decent team at the moment and need to focus on promotion to division 1 in the league and staying there. No doubt a Kildare fan will tell you the same.

I would also point out that both Meath and Kildare have larger populations than 3 out of the 4 all Ireland semi finalists this year. And looking at the likes of Donegal (going nowhere for a long time and now going for 2nd AI in 3 years) I think there is no real reason the likes of Meath can't do the same

gormdubhgorm

Hibbeler wrote: »

The insult is that you are basically saying to the likes of Meath and Kildare in particular that just because you're not good enough to beat Dublin now at this moment in time, then what's the point in even letting you try. And all this in spite of the historical evidence which shows that Meath have also had their periods of dominance in Leinster.

As a Meath supporter I'm not going to gloss over the fact that we've been severely underperforming in the last decade or so, but I for one believe that all the current problems in Meath football are fixable. I think we have the basis of a decent team at the moment and need to focus on promotion to division 1 in the league and staying there. No doubt a Kildare fan will tell you the same.

I would also point out that both Meath and Kildare have larger populations than 3 out of the 4 all Ireland semi finalists this year. And looking at the likes of Donegal (going nowhere for a long time and now going for 2nd AI in 3 years) I think there is no real reason the likes of Meath can't do the same

I think there is more of a chance of Westmeath winning the AI then Meath at this stage.
It was great to see happy Westmeath supporters floating on pure joy leaving croke park. I hope they make some sort of go at it in the final.
Otherwise it could be yet another year where the provincial finals are non-competitive.

iDave

I'd prefer splitting Dublin in 2 than moving them to Ullster and I'm massively against splitting them in 2.
What would it solve? Instead of walloping Longford, Offaly, Kildare etc they'll wallop Antrim, Down, Derry etc. And the games WILL remain in Croke Park
And I cant see how artificially making Leinster more competitive will solve the deep rooted coaching and structural problems in places like Meath.

JeffKenna

I'm surprised it's not debated more but I think we should split London in two as well. They have a population of over 8m to choose from. Hardly fair compared to some of the smaller counties with 40/50/60k?

keeponhurling

JeffKenna wrote: »

I'm surprised it's not debated more but I think we should split London in two as well. They have a population of over 8m to choose from. Hardly fair compared to some of the smaller counties with 40/50/60k?

Don't get me started on the Beijing Gaels or the Delhi Wolfhounds....

keeponhurling

Just because one team wins a few in a row, doesn't mean structures need to be revamped.
The Dubs have won a few Leinsters, but I also recall Laois, Westmeath, Kildare and Meath winning, with Louth also being robbed of one.
I think Wexford also reached an All-Ireland semi-final.

People said Kilkenny would dominate Leinster hurling forever, but recently Dublin and Galway have both won it.
Going back a bit more Offaly and Wexford were regular winners.

FionnK86

Here lads here's a better idea....get better at football?

Hibbeler

gormdubhgorm wrote: »

I think there is more of a chance of Westmeath winning the AI then Meath at this stage.
It was great to see happy Westmeath supporters floating on pure joy leaving croke park. I hope they make some sort of go at it in the final.
Otherwise it could be yet another year where the provincial finals are non-competitive.

Last weekend was Westmeath's All-Ireland and well done to them in fairness. I really do hope that they can give the Leinster final a good lash but can't see them winning. Perhaps a kind rd 4 qualifier draw will see them in an AI Qf and if so I'm sure it will be richly deserved.

However I know in my own heart that Meath are better than the last 20 minutes or so of the game last Sunday would have you believe. We currently have the talent imo to have a strong team in the coming years and will still be best placed in Leinster to challenge Dublin in the future.

Roger_007

freddiek wrote: »

I'd like to see the back of the Provincial football championships. Even in Ulster Donegal are now forging ahead.


Anyone think its days are numbered??

It's surprising that the provincial structure has lasted so long, or was ever adopted by the GAA in the first place. It's totally artificial. The provinces are dominated by a few counties and there are too many meaningless games.
It would make much more sense if the championship was based initially on the current league structure.
The league and the championship should be amalgamated into a single competition with the final league positions being used for the draw for the championship. The top sixteen teams, (currently divisions 1 and 2), would then go on to play on a strict knockout basis, (with a seeded draw), for the Sam Maguire and the rest would play on a strict knockout basis for a secondary cup.
The two finals could be played the same day.
Promotion and relegation to and from the top sixteen for the following year would be based on the final league positions with the winners of the secondary cup also being promoted regardless.

ardmacha

Well there was a plan to give the Ulster counties a bigger population to counter Dublin's ridiculous advantage
http://www.breakingnews.ie/ireland/uk-officials-debated-moving-entire-population-of-hong-kong-to-ireland-684888.html

Nidgeweasel

Be some craic if Dublin was split in two and both sides simply ended up in the final every year.

DEFTLEFTHAND

Leinster was very competitive in the past and will be again, things move in cycles. This is a great Dub generation, don't punish them for being successful.

nxbyveromdwjpg

Nidgeweasel wrote: »

Be some craic if Dublin was split in two and both sides simply ended up in the final every year.

We'd have to split it 4 ways then

cj maxx

Nidgeweasel wrote: »

Be some craic if Dublin was split in two and both sides simply ended up in the final every year.

May happen , and best of luck to them but to have 1/3 of the population assigned to 1 team out of 31 ( not counting some) is crazy . I dont advocate chopping and changing all counties depending on population but the discrepancy in population between dublin and other teams is tooo big

gaffer91

The provincial structure is worth keeping, not for the bigger teams but the smaller ones. Teams like Roscommon, Sligo, Louth etc have no hope at winning the All-Ireland and don't care about winning a lower division in the league but a provincial title means the world to the players and the fans.

With regards to Dublin they should absolutely be split in two, if not more. The population advantage they have is absurd. Their dominance since 2005 has already destroyed football in Leinster- who is going to be inspired to play football in any of the other counties when you see all those months of training culminating in a drubbing by Dublin? It's becoming more uncompetitive year on year. With Dublin poised to dominate the All-Ireland series for the forseeable future as well, let's save gaelic football and pre-empt that by splitting Dublin into 2, 3 or even 4 teams to ensure a more level playing field.

ProudDUB

gaffer91 wrote: »

The provincial structure is worth keeping, not for the bigger teams but the smaller ones. Teams like Roscommon, Sligo, Louth etc have no hope at winning the All-Ireland and don't care about winning a lower division in the league but a provincial title means the world to the players and the fans.

With regards to Dublin they should absolutely be split in two, if not more. The population advantage they have is absurd. Their dominance since 2005 has already destroyed football in Leinster- who is going to be inspired to play football in any of the other counties when you see all those months of training culminating in a drubbing by Dublin? It's becoming more uncompetitive year on year. With Dublin poised to dominate the All-Ireland series for the forseeable future as well, let's save gaelic football and pre-empt that by splitting Dublin into 2, 3 or even 4 teams to ensure a more level playing field.

Oh FFS !

We have won 3 All Irelands in 30 years. Three ! Lets revisit this argument when we actually HAVE been dominating the All Ireland series for the forseeable past, instead of coming up with all this nonsense based on what people think MAY happen in the future.

Dublin has always had the biggest population, but it has not always translated into All Ireland success. Where was this urgent need to split Dublin into two, when the startled earwigs were getting hammered out the gate by Kerry and Meath back in 2009/10...hmmmm????

cj maxx

ProudDUB wrote: »

Oh FFS !

We have won 3 All Irelands in 30 years. Three ! Lets revisit this argument when we actually HAVE been dominating the All Ireland series for the forseeable past, instead of coming up with all nonsense based on what people MAY think will happen in the future.

Dublin has always had the biggest population, but it has not always translated into All Ireland success. Where was this urgent need to split Dublin into two, when the startled earwigs were getting hammered out the gate by Kerry and Meath back in 2009/10...hmmmm????

I can see where your coming from but this idea didnt start because dublin won AI 's .

ProudDUB

That's funny, because if I cast my mind back a few years, I don't remember all that many newspaper articles, radio panel discussions or internet forums, banging on about the need to split us up. They were far more interested in constantly going on about how rubbish we were. My, how times have changed ! :rolleyes:

gaffer91

ProudDUB wrote: »

Oh FFS !

We have won 3 All Irelands in 30 years. Three ! Lets revisit this argument when we actually HAVE been dominating the All Ireland series for the forseeable past, instead of coming up with all nonsense based on what people MAY think will happen in the future.

Dublin has always had the biggest population, but it has not always translated into All Ireland success. Where was this urgent need to split Dublin into two, when the startled earwigs were getting hammered out the gate by Kerry and Meath back in 2009/10...hmmmm????

Even if Dublin weren't currently dominating the All-Ireland series they should still be split in two. Both for the sake of gaelic football in Leinster and because they have a massive population advantage. If they have historically failed to take advantage of that advantage that's their own fault and no argument against splitting them. For instance, if a team in the premier league started with a 10 point head-start every year but ultimately never won the league it still wouldn't change the fact they have an unfair advantage.

If you had asked me should Dublin have been split in two in 2010 I'd have said yes then too.