Card minimum spend!

cillit_bang

One thing that has f***ING annoyed me to no end in the last few months is business putting a 'minimum spend' on cards.

It's so infuriating, more and more people are moving to using less cash and they still have this rule, which is wildly variable depending on the business. Why are they refusing business!?

Most don't even put up a sign to say about the minimum spend.

cloud493

Aye it can be annoying. Its something to do with charges for using the card isn't it? Or so the staff tell me. So a bigger shop just absorbs the cost I guess.

Guy:Incognito

cillit_bang wrote: »

. Why are they refusing business!?
.

if you lose money selling something to someone then its business you can do without.

daveohdave

Leave the goods on the counter and walk out.

The Purveyor of Truth

Self service tills ftw.

They even allow 'partial cash, rest of balance with card' payments.

Very annoying to be told to please take your change when it's still coming out though and to please take your groceries when you are still putting the change in your pocket. I'm not.. some fast person you know.

Aint Eazy Being Cheezy

Carry cash too you slaphead. It's bad enough standing in a queue to buy my sunday paper when some bellend pulls out his card to pay a €3.50 bill.

CIARAN_BOYLE

Someone paying by card costs the shop money that cost doesn't change much whether you are paying them 5 cent or €50,000 however the impact of a 10 cent (or whatever it actually is) charge is quite a bit different in their calculation based on the size of the transaction.

EyeSight

Guy:Incognito wrote: »

if you lose money selling something to someone then its business you can do without.

I don't think they are making losses on sales(unless it's a 10 cent sale or something?), but maybe just less profit.
How is it that in other countries you can use card for anything? Maybe the card companies charge a % and not a fixed amount?

cillit_bang

Guy:Incognito wrote: »

if you lose money selling something to someone then its business you can do without.

I think that argument is BS. I don't the charges are that high anymore. There is certainly a vendor that offer very little charges.

mikemac1

The Cunning Linguist wrote: »

Carry cash too you slaphead. It's bad enough standing in a queue to buy my sunday paper when some bellend pulls out his card to pay a €3.50 bill.

With that new card scan feature you can pay and be away faster then cash

cillit_bang

The Cunning Linguist wrote: »

Carry cash too you slaphead. It's bad enough standing in a queue to buy my sunday paper when some bellend pulls out his card to pay a €3.50 bill.

Nope, thats why we have the new nfc function. Which is faster than paying by cash.

CIARAN_BOYLE

EyeSight wrote: »

I don't think they are making losses on sales(unless it's a 10 cent sale or something?), but maybe just less profit.
How is it that in other countries you can use card for anything? Maybe the card companies charge a % and not a fixed amount?

In Ireland big shops are on one type of deal and most small retailers are on another in terms of price. Small retailers pay small monthly fee plus high per transaction charge while big shops pay higher monthly fee for card terminals with no charge per transaction

In other countries more locations have option 2

same ol sh1te

daveohdave wrote: »

Leave the goods on the counter and walk out.

I've done that. Went to a checkout with a roll and coffee, the assistant said 'we don't accept card transactions for less than a tenner'. I said 'i hope you take 2 sugars' and just walked out.

The Purveyor of Truth

I'm more annoyed about the additional fees for phone and ESB top-ups.

Payzone do not approve of these fees by the way, and so report them when you see them.

I heard that the shop across Tesco in Crumlin had their Payzone machine taken off them for charging these fees, hopefully this will keep happening until there is an end to shops doing this.

ukoda

this practice will be dead soon with the use of contactless payments for transactions under 15 euro

they are becoming more and more popular

deise08

I thought that minimum spend was not allowed?
Thought I read somewhere that they have an agreement with the card suppliers, and if they force a minimum spend on customers they are breaking that agreement?

Guy:Incognito

cillit_bang wrote: »

I think that argument is BS. I don't the charges are that high anymore. There is certainly a vendor that offer very little charges.

Maybe do less "thinking" and go find out the facts . At least then it'll be an informed rant.

ukoda

Guy:Incognito wrote: »

Maybe do less "thinking" and go find out the facts . At least then it'll be an informed rant.

credit card transactions cost business between 1 and 2 % of the transaction depending on the deal they have struck

debit cards are usually a fixed cost and are not very expensive at all

Aint Eazy Being Cheezy

mikemac1 wrote: »

With that new card scan feature you can pay and be away faster then cash

Fair enough, but how do you verify the transaction? If you've to enter a pin it can't be faster.

ukoda

The Cunning Linguist wrote: »

Fair enough, but how do you verify the transaction? If you've to enter a pin it can't be faster.

no pin, its for transactions less than 15 euro

duffman13

same ol sh1te wrote: »

I've done that. Went to a checkout with a roll and coffee, the assistant said 'we don't accept card transactions for less than a tenner'. I said 'i hope you take 2 sugars' and just walked out.

Your a wild thing

MadYaker

deise08 wrote: »

I thought that minimum spend was not allowed?
Thought I read somewhere that they have an agreement with the card suppliers, and if they force a minimum spend on customers they are breaking that agreement?

No. Businesses get charged by the card companies on a per transaction basis. So if you are spending less than a certain amount the cost of the transaction can cancel out the profits of the sale, that is why there are sometimes transaction limits. It's generally in smaller businesses as they have to pay more for card services.

cloud493

I do love contactless. I try to carry €15 or so in cash as well though, some places don't have card reading machines and what not.

cillit_bang

The Cunning Linguist wrote: »

Fair enough, but how do you verify the transaction? If you've to enter a pin it can't be faster.

Because it is under 15e (That's the rule), you don't have to enter pin. Mind you, A security risk? Yes.

same ol sh1te

duffman13 wrote: »

Your a wild thing

If more did the same they'd soon change their policy

Senna

Remember Laser cards, business paid very little commission on those transactions but banks realised they were losing out so replaced them with visa debit.
Card transactions range from 1.5-2.5% on average, for many shops, that is their net profit.

ukoda

Senna wrote: »

Remember Laser cards, business paid very little commission on those transactions but banks realised they were losing out so replaced them with visa debit.
Card transactions range from 1.5-2.5% on average, for many shops, that is their net profit.

no thats only for credit cards, debit cards are much much less, its hard to give an exact figure as it varies from card companies and banks and providers. but its really not that much at all

dgt

What's more annoying is when there is a surcharge of €1 under a €20 spend. What if you buy something that amounts to €19.99?

Senna

ukoda wrote: »

no thats only for credit cards, debit cards are much much less, its hard to give an exact figure as it varies from card companies and banks and providers. but its really not that much at all

We pay 1.5% on visa debit, so unless maybe your a big customer, as in over xx million Euro in transactions.

ukoda

Senna wrote: »

1.5% on visa debit, unless maybe your a big customer, as in over xx million Euro in transactions.

no i believe thats incorrect, its more like 0.05% capped at a maximum of 20 or 30 cent

where are you getting that figure from?

srsly78

cillit_bang wrote: »

Nope, thats why we have the new nfc function. Which is faster than paying by cash.

Not if it's a shop in the sticks without a proper internet connection. The slow machines still work using a telephone and 56k modem! If the place has a modern broadband connection the transaction can be almost instant.

Toto Wolfcastle

deise08 wrote: »

I thought that minimum spend was not allowed?
Thought I read somewhere that they have an agreement with the card suppliers, and if they force a minimum spend on customers they are breaking that agreement?

Yeah, I've read that on Boards before. I found this when I did a search.

ukoda

Bobblehead Panda wrote: »

Yeah, I've read that on Boards before. I found this when I did a search.

yes thats correct, its also listed as not allowed on the AIB merchant services FAQ's

http://www.aibms.com/accepting-card-payments/faqs/

Can I set a minimum transaction value?
No, you may not set any minimum limit on credit and debit card transactions.

anncoates

same ol sh1te wrote: »

I've done that. Went to a checkout with a roll and coffee, the assistant said 'we don't accept card transactions for less than a tenner'. I said 'i hope you take 2 sugars' and just walked out.

He/she probably still in counselling to deal with the devastation they feel.

JustAddWater

The Cunning Linguist wrote: »

Carry cash too you slaphead. It's bad enough standing in a queue to buy my sunday paper when some bellend pulls out his card to pay a €3.50 bill.

But (especially with NFC) it's much quicker paying by card, especially over some granny going "€1" ... "€1.20" .... *rummage* "how much did I give you?".... "How much do I owe you?" .... "€1.25" ... "Is that a 5c or a 10c I gave you there?"

Your logic is on par with those who read Georgia's column in Star Sunday alright

Senna

ukoda wrote: »

no i believe thats incorrect, its more like 0.05% capped at a maximum of 20 or 30 cent

where are you getting that figure from?

The business I work for is charged 1.5%, I think the figures you are thinking of is the old laser rates, which were definitely lower, but I wouldn't know what they were.
I know AIB and fexico were both charging 1.5% for visa debit transactions, maybe larger shops get better rates.

ukoda

Senna wrote: »

The business I work for is charged 1.5%, I think the figures you are thinking of is the old laser rates, which were definitely lower, but I wouldn't know what they were.
I know AIB and fexico were both charging 1.5% for visa debit transactions, maybe larger shops get better rates.

I think it depends on the merchant used

This article seems to say that debit cards are charged between 11 to 20 cent per transaction - in comparison to laser which was 8 cent per transaction

http://m.independent.ie/business/personal-finance/debit-card-charges-to-rise-as-laser-checks-out-30051902.html

They also say that banks have waived fees for contactless payment, altho that's only temporary it appears in order to help them become popular

I really really don't think debit cards use a % of the transaction.

Are you sure it's not 1.5% for visa credit?

markpb

Senna wrote: »

The business I work for is charged 1.5%, I think the figures you are thinking of is the old laser rates, which were definitely lower, but I wouldn't know what they were.
I know AIB and fexico were both charging 1.5% for visa debit transactions, maybe larger shops get better rates.

I've never heard of any business being charged a percentage for debit cards, it's usually a fixed amount somewhere between 13 and 25c. Credit cards are all charged a percentage. This isn't an Irish thing, it's pretty common worldwide. I wonder if the person who told you the rates made a mistake between them.

Bobblehead Panda wrote: »

Yeah, I've read that on Boards before. I found this when I did a search.

That's pretty interesting, thanks!

MadYaker wrote: »

No. Businesses get charged by the card companies on a per transaction basis. So if you are spending less than a certain amount the cost of the transaction can cancel out the profits of the sale, that is why there are sometimes transaction limits. It's generally in smaller businesses as they have to pay more for card services.

It's worth remembering that businesses pay for accepting cash too. They have to pay to get change from the bank, they have to pay their staff to count it at the end of the shift, they have to pay to lodge it back into the bank and they have to pay to secure it on-premises. Depending on the size of the business, they may also need to pay to transport it to and from the bank. The difference is that there's no fixed per-transaction charge so businesses can't easily quantify those costs.

Senna wrote: »

Remember Laser cards, business paid very little commission on those transactions but banks realised they were losing out so replaced them with visa debit.

That's a lovely conspiracy theory but it's slightly off the mark. Laser cards only worked in Ireland so they, like all the other national debit card schemes, were made illegal by the first round of SEPA legislation passed by Europe. Visa Debit won out and the banks decided to push up the MSC for handling it, probably because Visa are charging them more than IPSO used to.

Mint Aero

Only in Ireland

Senna

markpb wrote: »

I've never heard of any business being charged a percentage for debit cards, it's usually a fixed amount somewhere between 13 and 25c. Credit cards are all charged a percentage. This isn't an Irish thing, it's pretty common worldwide. I wonder if the person who told you the rates made a mistake between them.



That's a lovely conspiracy theory but it's slightly off the mark. Laser cards only worked in Ireland so they, like all the other national debit card schemes, were made illegal by the first round of SEPA legislation passed by Europe. Visa Debit won out and the banks decided to push up the MSC for handling it, probably because Visa are charging them more than IPSO used to.

I see our monthly statment from too different providers, both are 1.5% for visa debit, you can either trust that I know what we are charged or you can assume what ever you like.

Conspiracy theories? Just so happens the banks make a huge amount more profit out of visa debit than Laser, of course the banks didn't want that.

ukoda

Senna wrote: »

Just so happens the banks make a huge amount more profit out of visa debit than Laser, of course the banks didn't want that.

Yes they do, it's about twice laser. But I'm sorry, it's not charged at a % it's a fixed fee, as per the article I posted above

You really must be looking at credit cards

What you are claiming is a long the lines of "Believe what you want, but I know that in our office water boils at 80 degrees" it's kinda hard to believe....

Shakespeare's Sister

daveohdave wrote: »

Leave the goods on the counter and walk out.

same ol sh1te wrote: »

I've done that. Went to a checkout with a roll and coffee, the assistant said 'we don't accept card transactions for less than a tenner'. I said 'i hope you take 2 sugars' and just walked out.

Why the **** blame the counter-assistant?

same ol sh1te wrote: »

If more did the same they'd soon change their policy

Would they? Soon? It's not in place just to annoy you you know.

I don't understand people never carrying cash anyway. Seems pretentious. It's hardly risky to have a €20 note in your wallet.

Mint Aero wrote: »

Only in Ireland

It is?

Senna

ukoda wrote: »

Yes they do, it's about twice laser. But I'm sorry, it's not charged at a % it's a fixed fee, as per the article I posted above

You really must be looking at credit cards

What you are claiming is a long the lines of "Believe what you want, but I know that in our office water boils at 80 degrees" it's kinda hard to believe....

The difference is, we both know at what temp water boils, but in this case I do know the charges, you are just disagreeing as they sound expensive.

I'm on the phone here, but below is the first link on Google


the fees being charged to retailers for using the new Visa debit cards are up to 5,000pc higher than for Laser.

When you buy something with a Laser card, there is a fixed charge of 15c.

But the new Visa cards have charges imposed on retailers of up to 1.55pc per transaction.

On a €500 purchase, this will mean charges for the retailer of 15c for a Laser card, but €7.75 for the new Visa debit cards -- a rise of more than 5,000pc.
- See more at: http://m.independent.ie/business/personal-finance/latest-news/customers-to-suffer-as-shops-pass-on-hike-in-card-fees-26760577.html#sthash.euS3asbE.dpuf

ukoda

Senna wrote: »

The difference is, we both know at what temp water boils, but in this case I do know the charges, you are just disagreeing as they sound expensive.

I'm on the phone here, but below is the first link on Google


the fees being charged to retailers for using the new Visa debit cards are up to 5,000pc higher than for Laser.

When you buy something with a Laser card, there is a fixed charge of 15c.

But the new Visa cards have charges imposed on retailers of up to 1.55pc per transaction.

On a €500 purchase, this will mean charges for the retailer of 15c for a Laser card, but €7.75 for the new Visa debit cards -- a rise of more than 5,000pc.
- See more at: http://m.independent.ie/business/personal-finance/latest-news/customers-to-suffer-as-shops-pass-on-hike-in-card-fees-26760577.html#sthash.euS3asbE.dpuf

Well the link I posted says the exact opposite to that. And it's the same paper. The only difference is that mine is more recent article.

And there are multiple other media sources that back up my claim.

The link you posted is 2 years old and I think the indo got their facts wrong back then tbh

same ol sh1te

Shakespeare's Sister wrote: »

Why the **** blame the counter-assistant?

Would they? Soon? It's not in place just to annoy you you know.

I don't understand people never carrying cash anyway. Seems pretentious. It's hardly risky to have a €20 note in your wallet.

It is?

My visa debit card has been accepted everywhere including the USA and UK for micro transactions in the last few years, only in Ireland have I come across a policy like this and I refuse to accept it. I very often find myself in situations where I have just a card and no cash. How is leaving the stuff behind you and refusing the transaction blaming the shop assistant?

Senna

Ok don't believe me, about a year ago I asked the accountant to approach other merchant service providers and see if anyone can offer a better rate than 1.5% on debit cards (used in about 80% of transactions), they all came back with the same rates only differing charges for terminals and contracts lengths.

rob316

The Purveyor of Truth wrote: »

I'm more annoyed about the additional fees for phone and ESB top-ups.

Payzone do not approve of these fees by the way, and so report them when you see them.

I heard that the shop across Tesco in Crumlin had their Payzone machine taken off them for charging these fees, hopefully this will keep happening until there is an end to shops doing this.

You should take issue with the phone companies instead who are wholesaling the credit to retailers at a price higher than what you pay. Yes report the retailers because god forbid the corner shop don't make a loss on the service they provide.

Consumers love to be all high and mighty until they actually run a business themselves.

JustAddWater

rob316 wrote: »

You should take issue with the phone companies instead who are wholesaling the credit to retailers at a price higher than what you pay. Yes report the retailers because god forbid the corner shop don't make a loss on the service they provide.

Consumers love to be all high and mighty until they actually run a business themselves.

Why should customers take up the issue? The contract is between the retailer and the service provider. If they're wholesaling it for more than its worth, the retailer needs to push back and say NO, and not just pass it to customers

Customers should not pay €21/€22 or whatever for something with a value of only €20

Consumer as usual is the only loser

irishgeo

cillit_bang wrote: »

One thing that has f***ING annoyed me to no end in the last few months is business putting a 'minimum spend' on cards.

It's so infuriating, more and more people are moving to using less cash and they still have this rule, which is wildly variable depending on the business. Why are they refusing business!?

Most don't even put up a sign to say about the minimum spend.

Its against both visa and Mastercard merchant rules. Report the various business and Mastercard and visa will come down heavy on them. They dont like it very much.

JustAddWater

irishgeo wrote: »

Its against both visa and Mastercard merchant rules. Report the various business and Mastercard and visa will come down heavy on them. They dont like it very much.

Who do you report them to? Couldn't find much info online!

irishgeo

JustAddWater wrote: »

Who do you report them to? Couldn't find much info online!

I'll get the info later.