ROKEBY & HAWKRIDGE [Article] Lucan estate full of €1.7m mansions remains a ghost town

The_Conductor

http://www.independent.ie/irish-news/news/estate-full-of-17m-mansions-remains-a-ghost-town-30567408.html

The hawks will snap these up" was the breathless editorial commentary on the property pages when a new "millionaires' row" of five-bedroom mansions came to the market in west county Dublin in late June, 2007.

They were right.

When the show house opened with a €1.7 million price tag it boasted extra high ceilings, underfloor heating and American-style chrome appliances including an integrated, restaurant-standard, coffee-maker.

Sale was agreed on one of the houses in jig time - despite the eye-watering price tag. And in short order, hefty deposits were laid on the table for three more of the high specification homes that enjoyed panoramic views of the Dublin mountains.

Hawkridge on Old Celbridge Road also overlooked the 17th and 18th green of Lucan Golf Club.

The evocative ping of well-struck drives by golfers on the tee box could be heard from the third-floor balcony.

Interest was sky-high for the enclave of 10 properties of 3,100 sq ft in a sylvan setting yet only 20 minutes from O'Connell Street.

But when Lehman Brothers went wallop, so did the home buyers' dreams.

And for the developers, Welcan Builders, headed up by the respected builder James Kielty, it was a nightmare.

Seven years later Hawkridge can lay claim to be the most expensive and prestigious ghost estate in the country.

During that time there was some vandalism and illegal dumping outside the gated entrance - despite the best efforts of the principals.

It meant that 24-hour CCTV security and on-the-ground security personnel had to be employed at considerable expense.

In the intervening period Welcan Builders entered into lengthy negotiations with its project bankers Irish Nationwide Building Society. But of course the ground rules were constantly changing.

Irish Nationwide's loans were transferred or lumped in with Anglo Irish Bank's loans and came under the control the Irish Bank Resolution Corporation (IRBC).

Thence, the loans on Hawkridge came under the control of the State's bad bank, National Asset Management Agency (NAMA). All the while Hawkridge, with its lofty ceilings, wood panelling, underfloor heating, sandstone fireplaces and colour video intercom, remained vacant.

Seven years after the show house opened, a notice appeared dated July 1 in the Irish State Gazette, Iris Oifigiuil announcing the appointment of a receiver to Welcan Builders Limited.

It will now be up to Declan Taite and Patrick Brennan of Receivers, RSM Farrell Grant Sparks to dispose of Hawkridge on behalf of Nama.

Mr Taite declined to comment when contacted by the Sunday Independent last week.

The builder of Hawkridge Jim Kielty also declined to comment but said he was co-operating with the Receivers.

EmilyHoward

They are decent size houses, good location. They would be snapped up if priced reasonably - I'd say €500,000 - €550,000 would be good value.

mikemac1

Is that right by Weston? I don't think the noise would bother me but I read a lot of posts in aviation forum about local estates objecting to expansion at Weston. Might be a factor when considering a price

Eric Cartman

Great looking houses, but the space between them side to side is terrible, only 8 of them actually got built afaik.

Would be great at 500k

the_syco

Ifn the gardens were proportionately bigger, compared to the houses, I'd say they would've been sold by now. As it is, it's big houses with tiny gardens with big price tags. Add in that it may be near to a flight path that can handle jet aircraft, means that it won't get that much.

The_Conductor

Looking at comparable houses at Laraghcon- and their recent sale prices- personally I think 400k is more reasonable- if they actually want to shift these.

Laraghcon is expanding of course (if you go up the Clonee Road- you'll see O'Flynn Construction are doing all the ground works for Laraghcon itself- presumably it will link into the pre-existing Hillsborough site- though it will be confusing if anyone ever insists on the correct names being given to the two developments).

They have to get these out the door now- before there are more 'luxury' properties built in Lucan- with proper sized gardens etc (and not on the Weston landing path).

They're making a song and a dance about them overlooking the 17th and 18th holes of the golf course- which has to be a stretch if ever I heard one- yes, they're across the road from the golf course- but good luck seeing anything (mind- its Lucan golf course- so you're not missing an awful lot.......)

The location is annoying- being so close to Weston- and you do have a lot of drivers racing on the road outside- because its perceived as safe to do so (as its a one-way), there are property developments happening within 200 yards of the property (as you go around the corner down towards the junction with the dodsboro road), it is not 'exclusive'- it is a small estate of nice houses that they have to shift before nice houses in far better locations in the immediate Lucan area- hit the market.

Toulouse

Ah! I often drove by and wondered what the story with this estate was. No way I thought that the houses in it would have a 1.7m asking price though. Also my definition of mansion must be incorrect if this is what these are being classified as.

Will be interesting to see what they go on the market for. Personally I think 500k is too much but as always it will be down to what people are be willing to pay.

gaius c

So they've sat on these for 7 years and folk try to make out that there's no market manipulation going on!

Eric Cartman

gaius c wrote: »

So they've sat on these for 7 years and folk try to make out that there's no market manipulation going on!

well the receiver was only appointed recently, these 'assets' have been in limbo for 7 years with the builder probably keeping them on the books to leverage against credit. Now the builder is gone to the wall they can finally be sold off to recoup money to pay debts. Not a hope theyll even break the million barrier but id say theyll all be sold fairly quickly at the right price.

emo72

I remember when these originally went up for sale. I couldn't see the attraction in paying over a million for a house and living in an estate. The houses are too close together.

NickD

Have tried googling the interiors of these houses. Dying for a goo!! Yes I am a nosey lady I admit it!!

Idbatterim

1.7 million for the show house, the entrance and presentation looks like something you would get in an estate of asking prices of 170,000! Also 3100 sq ft being referred to as a mansion, LOL!

ceadaoin.

Clicked on that link expecting to see some nice houses. They are not 'mansions' in any sense of the word ffs! It's mind boggling how people bought into this crap.

NuckChorris1

These are going on sale later this year for "in excess of 650k". Called by the estate yesterday for a nose and building started in early Feb and will take 36 weeks to complete. 5 houses to be renovated, 3 to be completed and 2 to be built from scratch. Am interested in detached property in Leixlip/Lucan area but these haven't really captured my imagination the way I was hoping they would. Can't imagine you'd see much of a view from the houses on the bottom half of the hill.

The_Conductor

Rokeby Park will be completed in a similar time frame- and is in a similar price range. 72 properties- just past Laraghcon, on the Clonee Road. Apparently several current owners of property in Laraghcon have already approached the developer interested in selling in Laraghcon and moving there instead. The layout and designs are far superior to Laraghcon. I don't think they'll have show houses ready for a while- but they really are making fast progress....... Check it out.

Rokeby was the second Lord Lucan back in the 14th Century apparently- which is where the estate gets its name from........

farrerg

The_Conductor wrote: »

Rokeby Park will be completed in a similar time frame- and is in a similar price range. 72 properties- just past Laraghcon, on the Clonee Road. Apparently several current owners of property in Laraghcon have already approached the developer interested in selling in Laraghcon and moving there instead. The layout and designs are far superior to Laraghcon. I don't think they'll have show houses ready for a while- but they really are making fast progress....... Check it out.

Rokeby was the second Lord Lucan back in the 14th Century apparently- which is where the estate gets its name from........

72 houses for 650k plus, do you think they'll go easily? It's a lot of money, most people will need 130k deposit (assuming mainly non ftbs). I agree though, better location and layout than hawk ridge from what I've seen, and with st Catherine's park straight across the road

farrerg

NuckChorris1 wrote: »

These are going on sale later this year for "in excess of 650k". Called by the estate yesterday for a nose and building started in early Feb and will take 36 weeks to complete. 5 houses to be renovated, 3 to be completed and 2 to be built from scratch. Am interested in detached property in Leixlip/Lucan area but these haven't really captured my imagination the way I was hoping they would. Can't imagine you'd see much of a view from the houses on the bottom half of the hill.

They're on top of each other, can't believe someone was going to pay 1.7m for one! But big sq footage, it'll be interesting to see what they get

The_Conductor

Personally- I imagine 500-550k would be an accurate ball-park for them- given recent sale prices from Laraghcon- which would be the only comparable development in Lucan. North of 650k- would be purely aspirational........ Sure they're nice- but its not Ailesbury or Shrewsbury Road..........

seamus

The_Conductor wrote: »

Personally- I imagine 500-550k would be an accurate ball-park for them- given recent sale prices from Laraghcon- which would be the only comparable development in Lucan. North of 650k- would be purely aspirational........ Sure they're nice- but its not Ailesbury or Shrewsbury Road..........

Dunno. Per sq.m. you're looking at pretty good value.

This one @ 173 sq.m. sold for €535k. http://www.myhome.ie/residential/brochure/264-laraghcon-lucan-dublin-west/2951786

The houses in Hawkridge are 297 sq.m.

So if you were someone looking for that rural/suburban mish-mash not too far from Dublin and with a large house, you could certainly do worse than €700k for these.
That said, I'm making some pretty big assumptions there about build quality and local safety and accessibility. The gardens are tiny too and according to Google Maps, are all north or north east facing. Which badly impact their value.

Plus, if you were willing to take yourself just another 20 minutes out of Dublin, you could pick up something like this:
http://www.myhome.ie/residential/brochure/908-ladycastle-the-k-club-straffan-kildare/3075163

desertcircus

Are there seventy buyers looking to live in Lucan who have a six-figure salary and a six-figure deposit?

mariaalice

desertcircus wrote: »

Are there seventy buyers looking to live in Lucan who have a six-figure salary and a six-figure deposit?

You don't know Lucan very well, have a look at Laraghcon in particular the five bed houses, there are plenty of wealthy purchasers in Lucan.

seamus

mariaalice wrote: »

You don't know Lucan very well, have a look at Laraghcon in particular the five bed houses, there are plenty of wealthy purchasers in Lucan.

Yeah, that whole area along the Liffey basin is considered pretty desirable because it's the last section of undeveloped land all the way into the city. It's as close as you can get to living in the Phoenix Park without actually living there.

As such, many people would consider it prestigious to have a 5 bed house on a quarter-acre plot, surrounded by fields and golf courses but within 10km of the city centre.

farrerg

seamus wrote: »

Yeah, that whole area along the Liffey basin is considered pretty desirable because it's the last section of undeveloped land all the way into the city. It's as close as you can get to living in the Phoenix Park without actually living there.

As such, many people would consider it prestigious to have a 5 bed house on a quarter-acre plot, surrounded by fields and golf courses but within 10km of the city centre.

72 houses is a lot, but there seems to be plenty appetite for houses in Laraghcon whenever they go up. they seem to be flying along with the build so I'd say we'll see soon enough. It might mean Hawkridge will go up for sale sooner rather than later to avoid the direct comparisons in terms of garden size and aspect

NuckChorris1

seamus wrote: »

Plus, if you were willing to take yourself just another 20 minutes out of Dublin, you could pick up something like this:
http://www.myhome.ie/residential/brochure/908-ladycastle-the-k-club-straffan-kildare/3075163

Looked at that one too. It's great value for the 650k. It's the ~12k per year in compulsory golf memberships and maintenance fees that kill it. :eek::eek:

farrerg

NuckChorris1 wrote: »

Looked at that one too. It's great value for the 650k. It's the ~12k per year in compulsory golf memberships and maintenance fees that kill it. :eek::eek:

Yikes

desertcircus

mariaalice wrote: »

You don't know Lucan very well, have a look at Laraghcon in particular the five bed houses, there are plenty of wealthy purchasers in Lucan.

I'm sure there are, but seventy luxury houses in one specific location at a time when mortgage drawdowns are heavily reduced and probably about to fall again in number? That seems like a dangerously high number. Searching for houses in Lucan on Myhome only gives 87 map results at the moment - introducing almost that much again in luxury housing pitched at people earning over 125k with a six-figure deposit (an extremely small population) seems extremely risky and likely to carry a high risk.

The_Conductor

desertcircus wrote: »

I'm sure there are, but seventy luxury houses in one specific location at a time when mortgage drawdowns are heavily reduced and probably about to fall again in number? That seems like a dangerously high number. Searching for houses in Lucan on Myhome only gives 87 map results at the moment - introducing almost that much again in luxury housing pitched at people earning over 125k with a six-figure deposit (an extremely small population) seems extremely risky and likely to carry a high risk.

They're NAMA'ed. The Developer is constructing the development under contract (aka they get a fixed percentage of the sale price). The site and access costs for the 72 houses- is well over 40 million- before a single sod is even turned. Selling the houses @ 650k- is selling them at significantly below their (inflated) cost of construction.

farrerg

The_Conductor wrote: »

They're NAMA'ed. The Developer is constructing the development under contract (aka they get a fixed percentage of the sale price). The site and access costs for the 72 houses- is well over 40 million- before a single sod is even turned. Selling the houses @ 650k- is selling them at significantly below their (inflated) cost of construction.

I'm surprised then that they haven't amended the plans to include some 4 bed or 5 bed semi's to improve the return, or maybe they feel they need to keep them all detached to maintain the exclusivity (or the planners won't let them)

desertcircus

The_Conductor wrote: »

They're NAMA'ed. The Developer is constructing the development under contract (aka they get a fixed percentage of the sale price). The site and access costs for the 72 houses- is well over 40 million- before a single sod is even turned. Selling the houses @ 650k- is selling them at significantly below their (inflated) cost of construction.

True. I'll be curious to see how this pans out; if these houses all hit the market tomorrow, they'd represent over a quarter of the entire Dublin market in the 600-700k bracket.

Reg_hurley

The_Conductor wrote: »

The layout and designs are far superior to Laraghcon. I don't think they'll have show houses ready for a while- but they really are making fast progress....... Check it out.

Hi The_Conductor, would you know where we could view the layouts and designs? I've tried google but I'm not getting much back.

thanks.

NuckChorris1

Reg_hurley wrote: »

Hi The_Conductor, would you know where we could view the layouts and designs? I've tried google but I'm not getting much back.

thanks.

Pics on here are all I could find. Some house layouts and site layouts.

http://dobrien-engineers.ie/index.php/projects/residential/