Periodic electrical assessment

Loopers

I want to get a periodic electrical inspection on my 3 bed duplex. It is for renting purposes. Anyone done one of these and how much did it cost? I've one quote for €300 but that seems a lot. I'd prefer to employ someone local.

Risteard81

Loopers wrote: »

I want to get a periodic electrical inspection on my 3 bed duplex. It is for renting purposes. Anyone done one of these and how much did it cost? I've one quote for €300 but that seems a lot. I'd prefer to employ someone local.

I know this is an old post but that's a very fair price for this.

Sleeper12

Risteard81 wrote:

I know this is an old post but that's a very fair price for this.

I think it should be law that every home get this done every 10 or 15 years. I'm still seeing homes with an electric shower & they have the old screw in fuse type board. Some older houses still have no earth.

2011

Sleeper12 wrote: »

I think it should be law that every home get this done every 10 or 15 years.

I wouldn't ever expect this to be law, however I could imagine that insurance companies may start requiring this in the future.

Irreverent

Sleeper12 wrote: »

I think it should be law that every home get this done every 10 or 15 years. I'm still seeing homes with an electric shower & they have the old screw in fuse type board. Some older houses still have no earth.

Ok so my mothers house has an electric shower and an old screw in fuse board. What would she need to do to remedy this as I presume it’s not a good thing? The electric shower must be there 15 years.

Skedaddle

There's very, very, very low incidence of fatal electric shock in domestic or light commercial scenarios in Ireland. The small number of incidents that do occur tend to be contact with overhead lines or construction accidents.

However, I've never seen an international comparison of fires caused by electrical faults. It would be interesting to see where we stand.

I would say the single biggest risk in old installations here is DIY work and additions that could lead to fire risk.

Installations without earth connections here? Surely they're from before WWII ?! That's incredibly old for a wiring system.

I've seen old pre 1950s wiring regs here and much like the continent, they only suggested earthed Schuko type sockets in areas with water or exposed metal surfaces. Seems they require earthed sockets generally after that.

I've no idea when we standardised on current generation square pin earthed sockets as I've seen ESB show house images from the mid 1960s fully fitted out with Schuko on everything.

Seems the danger here was Schuko plugs being used in UK type sockets without the earth scraper connected.

Was there even a firm standard or was it just different installers opting for DIN standards like Schuko and others using BS round pins and others using the current system before it was officially accepted as a standard here as I've seen it in very old installations from the 50s ...

It's also really hard to date an installation here as you often find the fittings were swapped out for modern ones and the same ancient wiring is behind them.

For example, a friend of mine moved into a place in Drumcondra ana there were modern MK sockets installed on wooden patress plates. One was cracked and I decided to help swap it out.

Behind was a round hole two black and cloth covered wires that seemed to be covered in some kind of tarry insulation. The earth was the same wire type but just tagged with a green band. It definitely wasn't rubber wiring but older again.

All of this was carried in black metal conduit in the wall.

The sparks opened the fuse box and it was all MCBs and PVC cable. It even had two RCDs covering all circuits. There was a separate circuit (modern) going tto the krichen and one for the cooker.

We then traced it and there was a large box in the attic connecting the original 1920s (!!!!!) wiring system to the 1970/80s pvc wiring and the new board under the stairs!

Sleeper12

Irreverent wrote:

Ok so my mothers house has an electric shower and an old screw in fuse board. What would she need to do to remedy this as I presume it’s not a good thing? The electric shower must be there 15 years.

I'm not an electrician so there are others here can give better advice but I believe that the fusebox needs to be replaced with a modern switch type & the shower itself needs to have its own dedicated RCBO. Usually not a very expensive thing to do.

Irreverent

Sleeper12 wrote: »

I'm not an electrician so there are others here can give better advice but I believe that the fusebox needs to be replaced with a modern switch type & the shower itself needs to have its own dedicated RCBO. Usually not a very expensive thing to do.

Grand thanks. I’ll look in to that for her. Good to know.

Risteard81

2011 wrote: »

Sleeper12 wrote: »

I think it should be law that every home get this done every 10 or 15 years.

I wouldn't ever expect this to be law, however I could imagine that insurance companies may start requiring this in the future.

It's very often insurance companies who push these things. However county councils and county borough/city councils have also been proactive where it comes to rented properties. Insurance companies are already pushing Periodic Inspection for many non-domestic installations.

Sleeper12

Risteard81 wrote:

It's very often insurance companies who push these things. However county councils and county borough/city councils have also been proactive where it comes to rented properties. Insurance companies are already pushing Periodic Inspection for many non-domestic installations.

You can't sell a house/apartment without a BER. I'd love to see the same an electricial inspection.

meercat

Sleeper12 wrote: »

I'm not an electrician so there are others here can give better advice but I believe that the fusebox needs to be replaced with a modern switch type & the shower itself needs to have its own dedicated RCBO. Usually not a very expensive thing to do.

If a fuseboard is replaced by a consumer unit then the minimum requirements are
Upgrade mains tails
Upgrade earthing including rod, gas ,cylinder and equipotential bonding
Test and certification

It may be more expensive than you think

Risteard81

meercat wrote: »

Sleeper12 wrote: »

I'm not an electrician so there are others here can give better advice but I believe that the fusebox needs to be replaced with a modern switch type & the shower itself needs to have its own dedicated RCBO. Usually not a very expensive thing to do.

If a fuseboard is replaced by a consumer unit then the minimum requirements are
Upgrade mains tails
Upgrade earthing including rod, gas ,cylinder and equipotential bonding
Test and certification

It may be more expensive than you think

I agree, although gas etc. are equipotential bonding rather than Earthing.

But certainly I would expect reasonable cost for the work. Older style meters are also likely to require DSO (ESB) involvement.

2011

Skedaddle wrote: »

There's very, very, very low incidence of fatal electric shock in domestic or light commercial scenarios in Ireland. The small number of incidents that do occur tend to be contact with overhead lines or construction accidents.

Agreed, however a fatality is not the only concern for insurance companies. There is also injury, loss of earnings and risk to property damage.

I would say the single biggest risk in old installations here is DIY work and additions that could lead to fire risk.

Yes, I have seen some crazy DIY sh!t :eek:

There are still installations out there with very outdated wiring. This wiring may have complied with the regulations at the time and therefore would have been fit for purpose (back then). The issue is at the time there would have been less electrical loads and these loads would have been smaller. These old systems can easily become overloaded, fuses blow and the guttering starts. Cables with the old natural rubber insulation are particularly dodgy.

Installations without earth connections here? Surely they're from before WWII ?! That's incredibly old for a wiring system.

I have seen the odd one (admittedly not in a while).
You would be surprised.

We then traced it and there was a large box in the attic connecting the original 1920s (!!!!!) wiring system to the 1970/80s pvc wiring and the new board under the stairs!

It's amazing what you find people doing at times.

I was doing some work in a beautiful old period house in Enniskerry once and noticed that the sparks that was rewiring the house was installing a large distribution board. The enclosure was metal and he had mixed up the socket RCD neutral bar with the earth bar. The problem was that this bar was connected directly to the (conductive) enclosure which made it impossible to turn the RCD on as it would trip immediately. He dealt with this the only way he knew how, by bypassing the RCD :eek::eek:

2011

Sleeper12 wrote: »

You can't sell a house/apartment without a BER. I'd love to see the same an electricial inspection.

Sometimes people simply don't have the money for the upgrade which is why they may have the house on the market in the first place. This can happen when someone inherits a property.

I would think that it would be good to have an electrical inspection report as being mandatory for the sale, but not the upgrade for the reason stated above. That way people thinking of buying the property know what they are getting into.

Bruthal

Sleeper12 wrote: »

You can't sell a house/apartment without a BER. I'd love to see the same an electricial inspection.

What would you like to see in the electrical inspection requirements?

Sleeper12

Bruthal wrote:

What would you like to see in the electrical inspection requirements?

I don't know the answer to this. You can never be 100 percent certain of quality unless you actually rewire I suppose. Even with the closest inspection you'll miss a dying connection block under flooding.

Some things are easy enough to catch. Two immersions wired into a timer so both run at the same time.

Skedaddle

The problem too is that the newer regs all try to avoid unserviceable junction boxes. The old ones absolutely didn't. That's largely been driven by harmonisation with CENELEC and IEC norms.

Actually, despite the usual scathing comments you get from British sparks on forums about French electrics, they've always required recessed junctions on the wall / in the ceiling in France.

You'll tend to get a square junction box with a flat plate on it in most rooms, with everything going back there. Or, a large serviceable junction box in the attic, not lots of small ones. In some cases they get papered over but they're usually very easy to find. They also use singles in flexible conduit so usually rewiring is a very simple task.

I have seen a few French sparks being horrified at the idea of junctions thrown under floorboards in England and here.

It's all designed with inspection in mind in France

But you'll get UK and Irish sparks being horrified at rooms without earths and mandatory double sockets (RCD protected) at the bathroom sink

Different regulatory focuses in different countries