Landlady cut off electricity

Michael D Not Higgins

seamus wrote: »

There was a case a couple of years back about an immigrant worker who was working insane hours and getting paid pittance in the kitchen of some dingy takeaway. He was fired and took a case to sue for the underpayment of wages, whereon he was awarded something like €80,000. His former boss appealed on the grounds that as an illegal worker he was not entitled to make any civil claims under employment law, and the boss won. No compensation despite having been treated basically like a slave for some stupid amount of years. Can't find a link at the moment.

They should have then fined him 80k for hiring illegal workers.

Timberrrrrrrr

seamus wrote: »

The PRTB may in fact be prevented from assisting her by virtue of her status. Though that's not to say she can't leave the country temporarily (like a week or two), obtain the visa and return to the property. There's no requirement to be in continuous occupation of the rented property. Someone else could move in to mind the property while she's gone.

There was a case a couple of years back about an immigrant worker who was working insane hours and getting paid pittance in the kitchen of some dingy takeaway. He was fired and took a case to sue for the underpayment of wages, whereon he was awarded something like €80,000. His former boss appealed on the grounds that as an illegal worker he was not entitled to make any civil claims under employment law, and the boss won. No compensation despite having been treated basically like a slave for some stupid amount of years. Can't find a link at the moment.

So the same could theoretically be used here; as someone with an expired visa she has no entitlement to be in the country therefore cannot deal with the PRTB.

Getting the visa sorted should be priority one.

T'was this lad

http://www.thejournal.ie/restaurant-worker-awarded-e86000-after-years-of-forced-labour-in-dublin-225856-Sep2011/

A RESTAURANT WORKER who was forced to work for seven years for paltry pay and almost no days off has been awarded €86,000 by the Labour Court.
Muhammad Younis, who is originally from Pakistan, worked as a chef at the Poppadom restaurant in Clondalkin from 2002 to 2009 in what have been described as ‘chronic conditions’ by the Migrant Rights Centre Ireland (MRCI).

then

http://www.newstalk.ie/exploited-worker-denied-compensation-due-to-illegal-status

The High Court has overturned a Labour Court ruling in which a Dublin restaurant was ordered to pay an exploited migrant worker €86,000.

Amjad Hussein – trading as the Poppadom Restaurant in Newlands Cross – has successfully challenged the decision because of the illegal status of his employee Muhammad Younis.

Young Blood

I spoke to electric Ireland this morning and they said the electricity wasn't cut off. It is a one bedroom apartment in a townhouse and each apartment has its own meter reader and the electricity is in the landlords name.

I also tried replacing the fuse for her but it didn't work.

We contacted the landlady but she never answers and is totally neglectful when it comes to repairing anything. It can take up to a week before she will respond.

She is an old fashioned landlord. She comes up from the country once a week and then disappears until the next. Her son is living on the same street as far as i know.

the_syco

Young Blood wrote: »

An expired student visa. But im sure that doesnt negate her human rights.

Does the landlady know this, and is she using this against her?

Young Blood wrote: »

no notice was given. But the landlady has been pressuring her to move out the last couple of months. The landlady has also refused to collect last months rent.

Last couple of months? How many of the four months that she was staying there did the landlady want her out? Doesn't add up. Unless she has been there longer than the last four months, and is in arrears?

Young Blood wrote: »

I spoke to electric Ireland this morning and they said the electricity wasn't cut off. It is a one bedroom apartment in a townhouse and each apartment has its own meter reader and the electricity is in the landlords name.

I also tried replacing the fuse for her but it didn't work.

So in the end, it wasn't the landlady/landlord(?). You may need to fork out money for electrician to look at it.

Anyhoos, where is she from? I'm assuming non-EU, as otherwise she could just get a job, and she'd be a legal migrant.

The_Conductor

Young Blood- please answer the questions I posed.

Regards,

The_Conductor

Young Blood

The_Conductor wrote: »

Does the tenant have a lease?
Are they renting the property in its entirety?
Are they there with the specific and forewarned knowledge and acceptance of the landlord (aka- if they took over from someone else- was the permission of the landlord sought, and granted)?
Are there other housemates?
If not- when did they leave and under what circumstances?
If there were previously- is the current tenant paying the rent for the entire property now- or are they attempting to only pay the rent for a single room, in a property in which they are the sole tenant?

There are more questions here than answers.

She has a verbal lease agreement.
Yes it is a one bedroom flat with exclusive possession.
There are no other housemates.

The_Conductor

In which case- the landlord is perfectly within his/her rights to ask her to leave. They don't have to give a reason- and it is not up to you to speculate- it is their prerogative to ask the tenant to leave, she has been there 4 months, and doesn't have a written lease. She has been asked to leave. The rent was not accepted- as she has been asked to vacate the property. Had she been there 6 months- she would have had the right to refuse to leave, however, she was asked to leave, before she was there 6 months- so she doesn't have the right to dispute it.

The issue with the electricity/lack thereof- would appear to be a separate issue- from the little you've told us, and its entirely possible its coincidental- though obviously you are reading a lot more into it- given the circumstances.

The tenant has been requested to leave. She is effectively living there rent-free now- as the rent was not collected. The next step is for the landlord to issue official eviction proceedings- why you want to allow things to escalate going down this road- I don't know.

The tenant needs to find alternate accommodation- and move. Period.

D3PO

Whilst whats occuring form a tennancy perspective here is a disgrace I find it hard to have any sympathy for somebody here illegally.

I hope both the Landlady and your friend get their comeuppance.

foggy_lad

OP It sounds like the landlady has pulled out the main fuse or has some switch to enable turning off power to individual units.

Also I would imagine her next step could be to ring the Gardai immigration bureau and report your girlfriend being here illegally.

cluelez

OP I suggest you bring your girlfriend to your relatives and stay there until you sort out her's immigration status.
If you have known here for over 2 years you can ask INIS about de-facto relationship visa.

Man up!

Young Blood

The_Conductor wrote: »

In which case- the landlord is perfectly within his/her rights to ask her to leave. They don't have to give a reason- and it is not up to you to speculate- it is their prerogative to ask the tenant to leave, she has been there 4 months, and doesn't have a written lease. She has been asked to leave. The rent was not accepted- as she has been asked to vacate the property. Had she been there 6 months- she would have had the right to refuse to leave, however, she was asked to leave, before she was there 6 months- so she doesn't have the right to dispute it.

The issue with the electricity/lack thereof- would appear to be a separate issue- from the little you've told us, and its entirely possible its coincidental- though obviously you are reading a lot more into it- given the circumstances.

The tenant has been requested to leave. She is effectively living there rent-free now- as the rent was not collected. The next step is for the landlord to issue official eviction proceedings- why you want to allow things to escalate going down this road- I don't know.

The tenant needs to find alternate accommodation- and move. Period.

She has not been asked to leave. She is being pressured to leave. No written notice was given to her. It would make a lot more sense if there was.

I think the reason no written notice was given is becuase the landlady doesn't want to expose herself to an unfair eviction suit.

Arbiter of Good Taste

Young Blood wrote: »

She has not been asked to leave. She is being pressured to leave. No written notice was given to her. It would make a lot more sense if there was.

OP. Does it really matter at this stage? At the end of the day, the LL wants your GF out, why in the name of God does she want to stay?

What do you think will happen? Your GF will remain in situ and the LL will just happily accept that? Unlikely. Whatever about normal circumstances, your GF is in the country illegally (and that's a topic for another day..........). If the LL knows this, what is to stop her from going to the Gardaí? For God's sake, she has (allegedly) cut off the electricity? Do you think she will have any qualms about reporting your girlfriend?

You said in your first post that your GF is a human being. That's right, she is. Why aren't you showing her some humanity by offering her a roof over her head while she is in this situation instead of posting to a load of randomers on the internet?

Arbiter of Good Taste

Young Blood wrote: »

I think the reason no written notice was given is becuase the landlady doesn't want to expose herself to an unfair eviction suit.

So far you have given no evidence that the eviction is illegal. Just sounds to me like an unprofessional landlord.

ted1

You may need to get an electrician it could simple be an issue with the electrics

Grandpa Hassan

Young Blood wrote: »

She has not been asked to leave. She is being pressured to leave. No written notice was given to her. It would make a lot more sense if there was.

I think the reason no written notice was given is becuase the landlady doesn't want to expose herself to an unfair eviction suit.

There would be no 'unfair eviction suit' upon giving a written notice. Your GF is within the first 6 months, and therefore can be evicted with no reason given.

But I would echo other posters....why on earth would she want to stay?

JustAddWater

GarIT wrote: »

The landlady could get in trouble for knowingly aiding an illegal immigrant to stay in the country, if it was me I'd want the remnant out ASAP which I think is reasonable given the circumstances. She is being nice by not contacting the gardai IMO.

Cutting off the electricity? Yeah really nice. She sounds lovely.

Don't confuse the LL not going to the Gardai because she is being 'nice' with the fact that she herself is the one doing something that's quite possibly illegal

Graham

Grandpa Hassan wrote: »

There would be no 'unfair eviction suit' upon giving a written notice. Your GF is within the first 6 months, and therefore can be evicted with no reason given.

Assuming notice has been given (verbally or otherwise) do the laws that prescribe a legal/illegal eviction still apply?

_Kaiser_

Let's all take a step back here.. lots of conflicting back n forth here muddying the waters..

- First off, the ESB have confirmed the electricity was NOT cut off. It may be a fault or something the landlady has done (but without an electrician or contacting the landlady there's no way to know for sure)

- The OP's GF is in the place < 6 months and so can be asked to leave at any point (as confirmed by TC). Part 4 rights do not apply.

- The OP's GF has an expired Visa. Separate to this issue but important she get that sorted (if possible)

Bottom line (as far as I can tell) is that the Landlady (while being a bit of a prat about it) is perfectly entitled to ask the OP's GF to leave ASAP. That's what she (the GF) should do.

It's a crappy situation that could have been handled better by the Landlady (and I certainly wouldn't want to rent from her either) but there's no alternatives for the OP's GF from what I can see.

Graham

I think everyone has accepted the landlady is entitled to ask the tenant to leave. What I'm not sure about (hence the questions), is the landlady entitled under the law to evict the tenant in the manner she is doing it?

Young Blood

Grandpa Hassan wrote: »

There would be no 'unfair eviction suit' upon giving a written notice. Your GF is within the first 6 months, and therefore can be evicted with no reason given.

But I would echo other posters....why on earth would she want to stay?

I understand. But she still has to follow protocol and issue written notice. She can't just kick her out.

Gatling

Surely if the landlord refused last month's rent (unless i read wrong)
Would suggest the landlord either asked her to move out last month or informed the tenant she was to vacate by a certain date and has gone over

The_Conductor

Young Blood wrote: »

She has not been asked to leave. She is being pressured to leave. No written notice was given to her. It would make a lot more sense if there was.

I think the reason no written notice was given is becuase the landlady doesn't want to expose herself to an unfair eviction suit.

There is no justification for even suggesting it would be an unfair/illegal eviction. The tenant quite simply- has not acquired tenancy rights- and has been asked to leave, within 6 months of commencing the tenancy. This is written in law.

The landlady is being a bit of a tool- but hasn't broken any laws whatsover (from the information you have given).

The tenant has been asked verbally to leave- and for whatever reason is refusing and is digging in her heels. This is not her prerogative. She has no right to do so.

You can ask for a written letter from the landlord requesting the tenant vacate the property- if you choose. If you do- you are splitting atoms to try to come to some reason for not leaving- and ultimately- as it is not in dispute that she was asked to leave (albeit verbally) in the first 6 months of residence- she really doesn't have a foot to stand on.

This has nothing whatsoever to do with your girlfriend being from elsewhere- or the fact that she is illegally here (information you volunteered- for whatever reason I don't know- as it has nothing whatsoever to do with the case).

She does not have a written lease. She has not acquired Part IV protections. She has been requested to leave, as is the want of the landlord. You can ask for it in writing if you want (you are not entitled to a reason for the tenant being asked to leave though- the landlord is not obliged to give you any reason whatsoever- she is perfectly within her rights to simply ask you to go).

Your call- you can create a fuss- and end up at the PRTB- and aside from the Landlady being a tool- I genuinely can't see how she would loose this case (if you want to use the electricity issue as some sort of a bargaining block- good luck- but there is no proof that the landlord was involved in the outage).

I can't see why any tenant would want to dig in their heels in the circumstances- aside from sheer cussedness. If she were there over 6 months when all this happened- it would be entirely a different story- she was asked to leave before this cutoff though.

It is preferable that the notice to vacate the property (and it is a notice to vacate the property- not an eviction)- be in writing- but verbal is fine too- and in this case it would be very hard to refute that the request was made........

You're digging in your heels- when you really don't have two legs to stand on. You can drag it out- and end up in a PRTB adjudication- why you'd want to do that though- I genuinely don't know. If you had basic rights accrued under the 2004 Act- I'd be the first one to tell you to lodge a PRTB case, and make the landlord's life hell. Those rights did not accrue- and even if you refuse to leave- given the request to leave was in the first 6 months- they cannot later accrue.

Your call- but really- you need to find somewhere else to stay.

ct5amr2ig1nfhp

I have to laugh at your comment Young Blood. Is your gf following protocol by being here illegally? You want the LL to follow the rules yet your GF won't follow the rules herself.

Put yourself in the LL's position. You have a tenant, you want them out. You've asked them to leave. They won't leave. What would you do?

Beano

Has the OP actually confirmed how long his GF is living in the apartment? He has been asked several times but i cannot where he has answered.

The_Conductor

Young Blood wrote: »

I understand. But she still has to follow protocol and issue written notice. She can't just kick her out.

Protocol?
She doesn't have a lease.
She has been there less than 6 months.
She was given verbal notice to leave.
This is not disputed.
She is not 'just being kicked out'- she has been given sufficient time to leave.
She is not entitled to a reason- and indeed the request to leave does not have to be a written request (have a look at the PRTB adjudications).

You seem to be hammering on about an 'illegal eviction'- based on the information you've supplied- its nothing of the sort.

Grandpa Hassan

if this is escalated to the PTRB (by either side), it risks your GF's immigration status being uncovered, with the resulting repercussions. Why on earth would you risk that happening by digging in your heels over this?

bucketybuck

Graham wrote: »

I think everyone has accepted the landlady is entitled to ask the tenant to leave. What I'm not sure about (hence the questions), is the landlady entitled under the law to evict the tenant in the manner she is doing it?

What I'm not sure about is the supposed manner she is doing it. There appears to be zero evidence that the Landlady cut off the electricity gangster style, it could easily be a simple fault on the line. If so the facts are that the landlady asked the tenant to leave and stopped accepting rent, and has done absolutely nothing else wrong.

The same can't be said for the illegal tenant.

Young Blood wrote: »

I understand. But she still has to follow protocol and issue written notice. She can't just kick her out.

Were you as quick to ask for a written lease agreement in the first place?

the_syco

JustAddWater wrote: »

Cutting off the electricity? Yeah really nice. She sounds lovely.

Thus far the OP hasn't had an electrician out, so it's unknown if this has happened.

=-=

IMO, the OP's GF doesn't want to leave as she'll be probably asked for her PPS number in a new house, and as she's an illegal, is fearful that this may get reported to the authorities. Although possible, I doubt the left hand talks to the right hand in this country, so it's doubtful that this would happen.

The OP seems keen to point out that the GF has been paying rent for the past 4 months she has been there, but why? Was someone else paying it beforehand?

salamanca22

Even if it was an illegal eviction in the end of the day the prtb will rule in favor of the tenant but when it comes to court if they want the prtb ruling enforced it would all come out in a court of law about your other halfs illegal status and things would be a lot worse for her.

But it's not an illegal eviction and if the LL in this case wants the tenant out then the tenant is staying illegally in the premises and the country.

Don't rock the boat.

_oveless_

sorry to go off topic but one or two people have said that the ll can ask a person to leave with reason or notice if they are there less than 6 months, is that true? I assume you would get your deposit back in such a situation yes? And is the reverse true? can tenant just up and leave if they are there less than 6 months?