Hurling advantage rule, dismissals and referee reports

Filfot

Was at a club hurling game a few weeks and two players were competing for a ball and one pulled across the other, the player who was pulled across won the ball and played it. When the ball went dead some time later the referee sent off the player who pulled. Is this permissible should he have blown up for the foul straight away? Also would one have grounds for an appeal if the ref never waved his hand up to state advantage was being played - if there is such in hurling ? Or on a more technical point of not submitting his match report to the competitions control committee within the prescribed three day period ?

KK4life

Filfot wrote: »

Was at a club hurling game a few weeks and two players were competing for a ball and one pulled across the other, the player who was pulled across won the ball and played it. When the ball went dead some time later the referee sent off the player who pulled. Is this permissible should he have blown up for the foul straight away? Also would one have grounds for an appeal if the ref never waved his hand up to state advantage was being played - if there is such in hurling ? Or on a more technical point of not submitting his match report to the competitions control committee within the prescribed three day period ?

There can be no issue with a referee playing advantage and then returning to send the perpetrator off. It is not that much different to a ref not seeing a particular incident and sending a player off on the advice of a linesman or umpire. The ref is fully entitled to play advantage as it is perceived to benefit the team more than a free would. I do not believe he has to raise his hand to signal advantage, plus can it be definitively proved that he did not wave for advantage?

With regards to the match report, there may be a case with that but i am not certain

homerjay2005

Filfot wrote: »

Was at a club hurling game a few weeks and two players were competing for a ball and one pulled across the other, the player who was pulled across won the ball and played it. When the ball went dead some time later the referee sent off the player who pulled. Is this permissible should he have blown up for the foul straight away? Also would one have grounds for an appeal if the ref never waved his hand up to state advantage was being played - if there is such in hurling ? Or on a more technical point of not submitting his match report to the competitions control committee within the prescribed three day period ?

i think you should accept your punishment and stop looking for technicalities to get off on.

Filfot

homerjay2005 wrote: »

i think you should accept your punishment and stop looking for technicalities to get off on.

If it was me who put in the hard graft all year every year and nothing in return only to be put off for a minor offence which wouldn't be a free in most cases I would consider taking my punishment, but if rule is in the official rule book I think it should be challenge in the interests of getting a fair hearing at least ?

DaveR1

Filfot wrote: »

two players were competing for a ball and one pulled across the other

Your not much of a defence attorney...... Red Card! You just gave that description, so why challenge it?

It is becoming a joke at this stage. Lee Keegan in the football quater final this year, henry shefflin and pa horgan in the hurling last year. How the GAA are overturning some of these red cards is ridiculous. Lee Keegan kicked out and got sent off. I just can't see why a committee can overturn a refs decision when he clearly followed the rule book. Pa Horgan last year, harsh yes but he did pull across another plays head.

But I suppose if the counties can do it why shouldn't the clubs!

blue note

DaveR1 wrote: »

Your not much of a defence attorney...... Red Card! You just gave that description, so why challenge it?

It is becoming a joke at this stage. Lee Keegan in the football quater final this year, henry shefflin and pa horgan in the hurling last year. How the GAA are overturning some of these red cards is ridiculous. Lee Keegan kicked out and got sent off. I just can't see why a committee can overturn a refs decision when he clearly followed the rule book. Pa Horgan last year, harsh yes but he did pull across another plays head.

But I suppose if the counties can do it why shouldn't the clubs!

This exactly. Undermining referees when they make a technically correct decision is disgraceful. The three sendings off which were overturned should never have been. They were all harsh, the players and teams should feel aggrieved, but it should stop there.

Should we start reviewing tackles in games to see what we can upgrade to yellow and red cards?

Realt Dearg Sec

blue note wrote: »

Should we start reviewing tackles in games to see what we can upgrade to yellow and red cards?

don't be giving them ideas.

OP, sounds like this person (you? because if it wasn't you I can't imagine anyone else caring enough to start following up on the appeals process) was caught pulling across someone and rightly sent off, and are now looking for some kind of technicality because you're butt-hurt about it. The best way to avoid being sent off in those situations would be to not pull across someone in the first place. And if you're going to do it, at least do it well enough that the man doesn't still win the ball! But yeah, the ref is entitled to come back and card/send off a player for an earlier infraction, far as I know. I have no idea whether he is under some kind of obligation to wave his hands in the air to signal advantage but for the sake of all that's holy and sacred I hope not and that the CCC wouldn't uphold such a ludicrous objection (which you could never prove to any degree of satisfaction either).

flasher0030

I'm afraid, Filfot, you're not making too many friends on this thread.

Filfot

flasher0030 wrote: »

I'm afraid, Filfot, you're not making too many friends on this thread.

Afraid not, there is video evidence however and the pull is not deliberate a 50/50 ball which although a little contact was made with player he played on and didn't even feel any pain .. The rule is striking with force with the Hurley but what constitutes force in this regard? IMO refs are too soft in my county and blow up for everything and the inter-county team is suffering as a result .. Saw a game in kk recently and for the infraction in the op there would have been 15 red cards in this game if ref in op was in charge

Realt Dearg Sec

Filfot wrote: »

Afraid not, there is video evidence however and the pull is not deliberate a 50/50 ball which although a little contact was made with player he played on and didn't even feel any pain .. The rule is striking with force with the Hurley but what constitutes force in this regard? IMO refs are too soft in my county and blow up for everything and the inter-county team is suffering as a result .. Saw a game in kk recently and for the infraction in the op there would have been 15 red cards in this game if ref in op was in charge

Saying it didn't deserve a red card is one thing, but what you were asking was if there's some way to wriggle out of a punishment based on some minor technicality or other. The player should just take his punishment, like a man, and move on. Far too many appeals against cards these days on often matters of interpretation without entertaining the cute-hoorism as well. If the card was wrong, and you can make a case for that, then fair enough (but CCCs aren't usually inclined to undermine their referees), but trying to get out of it because a ref didn't wave his hands in the air or whatever? That's only ****e.

Filfot

Realt Dearg Sec wrote: »

Saying it didn't deserve a red card is one thing, but what you were asking was if there's some way to wriggle out of a punishment based on some minor technicality or other. The player should just take his punishment, like a man, and move on. Far too many appeals against cards these days on often matters of interpretation without entertaining the cute-hoorism as well. If the card was wrong, and you can make a case for that, then fair enough (but CCCs aren't usually inclined to undermine their referees), but trying to get out of it because a ref didn't wave his hands in the air or whatever? That's only ****e.

Yes the appeal will be on the grounds that it was unfair or even a disproportionate punishment for the infraction and the video evidence shows that . However you hit the nail on the head about the CCC not undermining their refs, therefore an action on the impairment of technical rules will have to go ahead, the referees report I think should be vital as it is no lie to say the ref in question has for some reason a vendetta or else it's just coincidental that bizarre decisions have been made against the club in the prior 5 games he reffed involving the club. In one game a few years ago he sent off three players and all were subsequently rescinded. Although such can't be said in an appeal or even that there was a hint of bias on the refs part an argument that the refs report was in two weeks later than the prescribed time could be made in the interests of obtaining a fair hearing, what do ye all think ? I know ye are coming down hard on technicalities but rules are rules and the official rule book is not that difficult to understand, at the very least referees should have knowledge of it anyway and adhere by it oer else what would we have?