Grealish called "Plastic Paddy"

~Rebel~

At the end of the day, he made the more difficult decision, opting for the greater challenge, to represent the country of his, and his parents birth.

Can't really fault him for that. Could have done without the fanfare over the past year, but I kind of think he should be commended for not taking the easy route to international football.

CSF

~Rebel~ wrote: »

At the end of the day, he made the more difficult decision, opting for the greater challenge, to represent the country of his, and his parents birth.

Can't really fault him for that. Could have done without the fanfare over the past year, but I kind of think he should be commended for not taking the easy route to international football.

Yeah I'll go with this. Better he's not involved if he's not passionate about it. I don't think he should be resented for that.

Kirby

~Rebel~ wrote: »

At the end of the day, he made the more difficult decision, opting for the greater challenge, to represent the country of his, and his parents birth.

Can't really fault him for that. Could have done without the fanfare over the past year, but I kind of think he should be commended for not taking the easy route to international football.

If he felt that way, it wouldnt have been a difficult decision. If he had come out and said " I want to play for England" I would be fine with that.

But he let it drag on for a year while he weighed up the pro's or cons. If he felt english there would be nothing to weigh. Like when Bale told the English FA to get lost. He was welsh and that was that. He didnt buy into a media circus....he just said it straight. Grealish let it drag on to further his career.

So to be honest, I can very much fault him.

CSF

Kirby wrote: »

If he felt that way, it wouldnt have been a difficult decision. If he had come out and said " I want to play for England" I would be fine with that.

But he let it drag on for a year while he weighed up the pro's or cons. If he felt english there would be nothing to weigh. Like when Bale told the English FA to get lost. He was welsh and that was that. He didnt buy into a media circus....he just said it straight. Grealish let it drag on to further his career.

So to be honest, I can very much fault him.

I don't think the Bale/Grealish situations are comparable. Did Bale come from an almost exclusively English family?

NIMAN

Will he even make the England Euro squad?

AllGunsBlazing

This lad is a long way off playing at international level for anyone, let alone England.

CSF

NIMAN wrote: »

Will he even make the England Euro squad?

He can't even make the Villa starting lineup at the moment. If he's going to France this summer it's as a spectator or on holiday.

tayto lover

NIMAN wrote: »

Will he even make the England Euro squad?

No. He's a poor, light-weight footballer.
I predict he'll be in the Championship in no time and on the way down too.

CSF

tayto lover wrote: »

No. He's a poor, light-weight footballer.
I predict he'll be in the Championship in no time and on the way down too.

Bizarre opinion to have about a lad with so much raw talent who has just turned 20. He will be a very good player when he gets a bit more experience and bulks up a bit.

Saipanne

tayto lover wrote: »

No. He's a poor, light-weight footballer.
I predict he'll be in the Championship in no time and on the way down too.

I predict he'll improve for a while, then Man City will swoop in and put him in the reserves for two years before selling him to... <insert bottom half PL club>

eire4

AllGunsBlazing wrote: »

This lad is a long way off playing at international level for anyone, let alone England.

I would be very surprised if he did.

tayto lover

CSF wrote: »

Bizarre opinion to have about a lad with so much raw talent who has just turned 20. He will be a very good player when he gets a bit more experience and bulks up a bit.

Why is it bizarre?
It's my prediction from watching players like Grealish for almost 50 years and seeing most of them fail to make the grade unfortunately.
Why do I think he'll not make it? He's light, reluctant to tackle or track back and easy to put off his game by average defenders. He thrives on space but won't be allowed it as defenders get to know him. I've seen him play on several occasions and didn't really rate him. He seems to have got his reputation on one good match. Bulking up won't really improve him imo. I also haven't noticed much of his "raw talent".

eire4

whatawaster81 wrote: »

No he can't do that once he's signed the declaration, he's Englands player for better or worse.

Not correct. Until he has played a competitive game for England he is still perfectly entitled to change his mind. Personally I hope he does not. While it would be great to have a young player with such potential the reality is he clearly does not seen himself as Irish so for me I hope he does not change his mind.

CSF

tayto lover wrote: »

Why is it bizarre?
It's my prediction from watching players like Grealish for almost 50 years and seeing most of them fail to make the grade unfortunately.
Why do I think he'll not make it? He's light, reluctant to tackle or track back and easy to put off his game by average defenders. He thrives on space but won't be allowed it as defenders get to know him. I've seen him play on several occasions and didn't really rate him. He seems to have got his reputation on one good match. Bulking up won't really improve him imo. I also haven't noticed much of his "raw talent".

He is 20. All those things you stated apply to most players his age, hence why most of them don't come into Premier League football at that age. Grealish has significantly more natural talent than most of the lads you'd have been watching for almost 50 years.

Was outstanding last season from when Sherwood came in, only Benteke was a more impressive performer during that period of time. Hasn't happened for him this season but I'd expect immature players his age to be among the most affected by the sort of slump Villa are in at the moment.

tayto lover

CSF wrote: »

He is 20. All those things you stated apply to most players his age, hence why most of them don't come into Premier League football at that age. Grealish has significantly more natural talent than most of the lads you'd have been watching for almost 50 years.

Was outstanding last season from when Sherwood came in, only Benteke was a more impressive performer during that period of time. Hasn't happened for him this season but I'd expect immature players his age to be among the most affected by the sort of slump Villa are in at the moment.

It's my opinion.
I don't rate him as highly as some here do and i don't see his natural talent.
Time will tell both of us.

CSF

tayto lover wrote: »

It's my opinion.
I don't rate him as highly as some here do and i don't see his natural talent.
Time will tell both of us.

You're entitled to your opinion but I'm pretty confident that it is incorrect, particularly the natural talent bit. Nobody can predict the future but his natural talent is obvious.

tayto lover

CSF wrote: »

You're entitled to your opinion but I'm pretty confident that it is incorrect, particularly the natural talent bit. Nobody can predict the future but his natural talent is obvious.

Not to all of us.

CSF

tayto lover wrote: »

Not to all of us.

No, seemingly you are the exception.

tayto lover

CSF wrote: »

No, seemingly you are the exception.

You need to read the threads on him then, seemingly.

Mezcita

tayto lover wrote: »

Not to all of us.

Whaaa!?!?!? He wouldn't be anywhere near a Premier League squad if he didn't have a degree of footballing ability.

Suggesting that he DEFINITELY won't make the grade is a bit much.

"I think he has got the talent to be an England player, he has a lot of work today before that day is concreted - but I was happy that in a choice between the two countries he took the bolder decision to try and be an England international."

Woy

tayto lover

Mezcita wrote: »

Whaaa!?!?!? He wouldn't be anywhere near a Premier League squad if he didn't have a degree of footballing ability.

Suggesting that he DEFINITELY won't make the grade is a bit much.

"I think he has got the talent to be an England player, he has a lot of work today before that day is concreted - but I was happy that in a choice between the two countries he took the bolder decision to try and be an England international."

Woy

Loads of players who make the EPL don't make the grade in it and end up in lower leagues. Loads of them.

Mezcita

tayto lover wrote: »

Loads of players who make the EPL don't make the grade in it and end up in lower leagues. Loads of them.

Agreed. But why would O'Neill and Hodgson chase a player who apparently does not have the ability to make the grade?

tayto lover

Mezcita wrote: »

Agreed. But why would O'Neill and Hodgson chase a player who apparently does not have the ability to make the grade?

O'Neill would have picked him because we pick nearly every player who makes a debut in the EPl.
Hodgson picked him just in case he was good and we'd get him.

I don't think he'd make it with either country from what i've seen. That's just my opinion as i've said already. I don't rate him from what i've seen of him.
Just an opinion that time will prove right or wrong.

TheCitizen

~Rebel~ wrote: »

At the end of the day, he made the more difficult decision, opting for the greater challenge, to represent the country of his, and his parents birth.

Can't really fault him for that. Could have done without the fanfare over the past year, but I kind of think he should be commended for not taking the easy route to international football.

:pac: this isn't still going on is it. He made his decision based on potential future earnings on the advice of his agent. He was happy to play for Ireland at u-21 level but then his agent said something like; you might be good enough to win England caps, and you will be much more likely to get a move to a bigger club if you have England caps than Ireland caps. That is why he made his decision.

Whether it works out that way or not is a different matter, time will tell on that.

Beefy78

TheCitizen wrote: »

:pac: this isn't still going on is it. He made his decision based on potential future earnings on the advice of his agent. He was happy to play for Ireland at u-21 level but then his agent said something like; you might be good enough to win England caps, and you will be much more likely to get a move to a bigger club if you have England caps than Ireland caps. That is why he made his decision.

Whether it works out that way or not is a different matter, time will tell on that.

So you still don't think the fact that Jack Grealish is English has anything to do with it at all yeah?

TheCitizen

Beefy78 wrote: »

So you still don't think the fact that Jack Grealish is English has anything to do with it at all yeah?

Why did he play for Ireland for years at under age level? The agent let the cat out of the bag. Everyone knows what happened.

kevthegaff

He reminds me of Lee hendrie in type of footballer and looks. Only saw him twice, his passing was safe but decent, other than that no raw pace or many goals. Think hel follow hendrie s path or a little better

blueser

TheCitizen wrote: »

:pac: this isn't still going on is it. He made his decision based on potential future earnings on the advice of his agent. He was happy to play for Ireland at u-21 level but then his agent said something like; you might be good enough to win England caps, and you will be much more likely to get a move to a bigger club if you have England caps than Ireland caps. That is why he made his decision.

Whether it works out that way or not is a different matter, time will tell on that.

Spot on. It's time to move on.He's made his decision; time will tell if it turns out to be the right one or not. The squad we have now haven't done too badly in the meantime.

Dirty Dingus McGee

I'm delighted he chose to play for England.The amount of players born outside of this country playing for Ireland is an embarassment for the game in Ireland.

We should be fielding a team which is almost 100% consisting of players born and raised here and only the odd player to add to the squad should be got through their parents/grandparents.

I've no problem with the grandparents rule but we shouldn't be relying on it as much as we do and the players that do come through it should be 100% committed to playing for Ireland and Ireland should be their first and only choice.

kevthegaff

blueser wrote: »

Spot on. It's time to move on.He's made his decision; time will tell if it turns out to be the right one or not. The squad we have now haven't done too badly in the meantime.

True also he won't suit our "direct style".. last night the game bypassed wes at times due to long balls from our back line and Glen passing it back to them. England's style suits him better if he can make it?

AdamD

Going out of our way to give out about ourselves here. People weren't giving him abuse for not picking Ireland, they were giving him abuse for quite clearly flirting with Ireland for as long as possible whilst waiting for an indication that he'd get a shot with England.

~Rebel~

TheCitizen wrote: »

Why did he play for Ireland for years at under age level? The agent let the cat out of the bag. Everyone knows what happened.

Because Ireland were offering underage experience and it would in no way negatively impact his future career. Underage doesn't tie you to any country, so it's always better to play it than turn it down. I've no doubt if England had offered him underage football first, he'd have played with them.

Yes, the agent pointed out that financially it made much more sense to join England - just as he pointed out with Bale. Did we need anyone to point that out? It's pretty obvious. Just because he stated a simple fact doesn't actually make it the reason.

Particularly nonsensical viewpoint when a) he's miles away from the England team at present, and b) he's English, clearly considers himself English, and his whole family consider themselves English.

If anything, the cynical viewpoints should have only come in if he'd picked Ireland.

Beefy78

TheCitizen wrote: »

Why did he play for Ireland for years at under age level? The agent let the cat out of the bag. Everyone knows what happened.

Because Ireland have a strategy of attempting to poach talented British kids who haven't made it into their own country's international setup yet. Grealish playing a handful of matches at various age levels here doesn't magically make him Irish and obviously when he has a sniff of playing for his actual country he is going to want to consider it.

Beefy78

kevthegaff wrote: »

He reminds me of Lee hendrie in type of footballer and looks. Only saw him twice, his passing was safe but decent, other than that no raw pace or many goals. Think hel follow hendrie s path or a little better

I'm one of the few who witnessed in person the entire International career of Lee Hendrie, against the Czechs at Wembley in maybe 1998.

Mezcita

Dirty Dingus McGee wrote: »

I'm delighted he chose to play for England.The amount of players born outside of this country playing for Ireland is an embarassment for the game in Ireland.

We should be fielding a team which is almost 100% consisting of players born and raised here and only the odd player to add to the squad should be got through their parents/grandparents.

I've no problem with the grandparents rule but we shouldn't be relying on it as much as we do and the players that do come through it should be 100% committed to playing for Ireland and Ireland should be their first and only choice.

Easier said than done. 100% Irish rules Keogh, Clark, McCarthy and Walters out from our starting eleven last night.

If they qualify to play and are as committed as the above players showed last night, they have every right to play for us. Without them we wouldn't have been anywhere near good enough to qualify for France.

The Golden Miller

Beefy78 wrote: »

Because Ireland have a strategy of attempting to poach talented British kids who haven't made it into their own country's international setup yet. Grealish playing a handful of matches at various age levels here doesn't magically make him Irish and obviously when he has a sniff of playing for his actual country he is going to want to consider it.

No "obviously" about it. Depends on the person and what country they identify with and have an affinity to. Many people of Irish diaspora identify as Irish only, some don't identify as Irish at all.

Anyway I couldn't care less about who Grealish plays for. He looks rubbish anyway. Some man for the side passes without ever carving an opening in a teams defense. Seems all about the commercialism of the game and the superficial, has no heart. Would hate to see someone like that in the Ireland jersey who isn't prepared to run through walls for the cause

secman

Beefy78 wrote: »

Because Ireland have a strategy of attempting to poach talented British kids who haven't made it into their own country's international setup yet. Grealish playing a handful of matches at various age levels here doesn't magically make him Irish and obviously when he has a sniff of playing for his actual country he is going to want to consider it.

Grealish as a kid not only played under age for Ireland at soccer but he also played GAA and actually played in Croke Park for a GAA Club in Birmingham. He was somewhat immersed in "irishness " but all of a sudden he feels more English. Too many people in his ear and he obviously is not strong enough character.... too easily swayed...no loss so. Irony is that he won't get many caps for England . He's not Irish enough !

Bridge93

Serious amounts of ****e being spouted in here. Fair enough to be pissed off at how long the whole process took but Jesus nobody knows the whole situation and feelings here. He's more English than Irish looking from the outside. Besides the shoe is on the other foot for once with us losing a player rather than gaining one.

Some pretty bitter comments calling him crap. He's ****ing 20 years old playing in the Premiership give him a chance for gods sake. He was good at the end of last season.
He's always been among the top rated young players in the league when pundits pick names to watch.

TheCitizen

~Rebel~ wrote: »

Because Ireland were offering underage experience and it would in no way negatively impact his future career. Underage doesn't tie you to any country, so it's always better to play it than turn it down. I've no doubt if England had offered him underage football first, he'd have played with them.

Yes, the agent pointed out that financially it made much more sense to join England - just as he pointed out with Bale. Did we need anyone to point that out? It's pretty obvious. Just because he stated a simple fact doesn't actually make it the reason.

Particularly nonsensical viewpoint when a) he's miles away from the England team at present, and b) he's English, clearly considers himself English, and his whole family consider themselves English.

If anything, the cynical viewpoints should have only come in if he'd picked Ireland.

He had chosen Ireland, he switched to England when his agent persuaded him on the benefits of playing for England over playing for Ireland or other countries for that matter. A couple of caps for England and Man City might buy him. He may not get to play much for City but he's more likely to get the opportunity to play for them if he has a couple of England caps.

He was offered a chance at underage level with England but turned it down I believe to remain with the Irish underage set up.

I am 100% convinced he switched to England solely because of potential earnings and to enhance his opportunity to get a move to a bigger EPL side, nothing you or anyone else including Grealish himself might say, will change my view on that. His delaying on the decision until he got an "undertaking" of sorts from Roy Hodgson that he would give him a call up confirms that for me. He was entitled to choose England if he wanted to - of course, 'cos he was born there - it was his delaying on the decision that annoyed people.

The annoyance is over, no-one cares. This story is finished, you are just rehashing the same arguments again.

Mezcita

TheCitizen wrote: »

He had chosen Ireland, he switched to England when his agent persuaded him on the benefits of playing for England over playing for Ireland or other countries for that matter.

Agree with that.

TheCitizen wrote: »

A couple of caps for England and Man City might buy him. He may not get to play much for City but he's more likely to get the opportunity to play for them if he has a couple of England caps.

What? Why would City buy him just because he would have played for England a few times? He qualifies as a home grown player so his nationality is of no real importance. City would buy him if he was doing well and was better than what they have. Much like any of the big money purchases they have made in the last few years. Fraser Forster has played three times for England under Hodgson. Doesn't mean that City, United, Arsenal are going to sign him any time soon.

TheCitizen wrote: »

I am 100% convinced he switched to England solely because of potential earnings and to enhance his opportunity to get a move to a bigger EPL side, nothing you or anyone else including Grealish himself might say, will change my view on that. His delaying on the decision until he got an "undertaking" of sorts from Roy Hodgson that he would give him a call up confirms that for me. He was entitled to choose England if he wanted to - of course, 'cos he was born there - it was his delaying on the decision that annoyed people.

While I'd agree that he probably had his head turned, it doesn't give him any guarantee of moving to a bigger club just because he's English. Being Welsh has hardly held Gareth Bale back. As you say, it's your view on things. But as Bridge93 points out we don't know the full situation apart from what the press speculates about. Meaning, you don't know that Hodgson gave him any promise about playing him for England. Best stick to the facts as opposed to making things up just because you don't like how he conducted himself.

Put it this way, he looks way off getting a cap now and it's only been six weeks since he declared for England.

Dirty Dingus McGee

Mezcita wrote: »

Easier said than done. 100% Irish rules Keogh, Clark, McCarthy and Walters out from our starting eleven last night.

If they qualify to play and are as committed as the above players showed last night, they have every right to play for us. Without them we wouldn't have been anywhere near good enough to qualify for France.

We're relying far too much on players like that though and as a result it reduces the incentive to produce players here and thus further weakens our team and our future prospects.The desperation with which we chase non Irish born players to declare for us indicates that the FAI view to to be as important as producing our own players.

eire4

Dirty Dingus McGee wrote: »

We're relying far too much on players like that though and as a result it reduces the incentive to produce players here and thus further weakens our team and our future prospects.The desperation with which we chase non Irish born players to declare for us indicates that the FAI view to to be as important as producing our own players.

I am not trying to be cheeky. But this fits right in with FAI policy because for so long we have abdicated developing our own players by not having a full tie professional residential academy for the top 40 or so 13-17 years olds in Ireland and continuing to let local non professional schoolboy clubs coach in a non full time or professional environment our best young talant until they move across the water where the FAI hope they then are developed into the finished product.

ozymandias10

eire4 wrote: »

I am not trying to be cheeky. But this fits right in with FAI policy because for so long we have abdicated developing our own players by not having a full tie professional residential academy for the top 40 or so 13-17 years olds in Ireland and continuing to let local non professional schoolboy clubs coach in a non full time or professional environment our best young talant until they move across the water where the FAI hope they then are developed into the finished product.

the world of ETP awaits you. The FAI now have Emerging Talent Programmes from U11 up to U16. The advent of the U17and u19 national league is an extension of these. This should finally allow us produce and develop players ourselves. Wont see the benefits for a good few years yet though

eire4

ozymandias10 wrote: »

the world of ETP awaits you. The FAI now have Emerging Talent Programmes from U11 up to U16. The advent of the U17and u19 national league is an extension of these. This should finally allow us produce and develop players ourselves. Wont see the benefits for a good few years yet though

No question the new national leagues are a step in the right direction. The ETP programme is also a step in the right direction too. But it is still only a part time programme and our best young talent is still playing in non professional local schoolboy clubs for the most part. We really need a full time fully professional residential programme.

BOHtox

It's fine poaching the odd player. Jon Walters has never represented England because he never wanted to. His mother was Irish and he has said numerous times that he pulls on the green shirt for her. Kilbane being another. James McLean, Darron Gibson and Mark Wilson obviously feel very Irish.

That's all very well and good if you can get 1 of them a year. But a large part of the squad should not be built of them, particularly when they're mediocre at very best and have dodgy enough irish roots. Paul Green, Jermaine Pennant, Kevin Nolan, Mark Noble, Simon Cox and Anthony Pilkington etc. Would much prefer to see actual irish players playing

The Golden Miller

BOHtox wrote: »

James McLean, Darron Gibson and Mark Wilson obviously feel very Irish.

Most probably because they are Irish

BOHtox

The Golden Miller wrote: »

Most probably because they are Irish

As opposed to Kyle Lafferty, Steven Davis and Johnny Evans who don't but you got what I meant...

The Golden Miller

BOHtox wrote: »

As opposed to Kyle Lafferty, Steven Davis and Johnny Evans who don't but you got what I meant...

Yes, because they are born on the unionist side of the divide. The others clearly aren't, so they ARE Irish like the rest of us. I do get what you mean but I dunno why you're throwing them into a post about poaching non-Irish players.

BOHtox

The Golden Miller wrote: »

Yes, because they are born on the unionist side of the divide. The others clearly aren't, so they ARE Irish like the rest of us. I do get what you mean but I dunno why you're throwing them into a post about poaching non-Irish players.

Further explanation given on request

The Golden Miller

BOHtox wrote: »

Surely you could compare and contrast them with any of the other Irish born players in the team then?