Grealish called "Plastic Paddy"

BOHtox · 20-11-2015 3:53pm

The Golden Miller wrote: »

Surely you could compare and contrast them with any of the other Irish born players in the team then?

This is ridiculous. I was talking about players not born in the 26 counties but who feel Irish but I like playing for us. Anyway that should be enough.

The Golden Miller · 20-11-2015 5:33pm

BOHtox wrote: »

This is ridiculous. I was talking about players not born in the 26 counties but who feel Irish but I like playing for us. Anyway that should be enough.

This attitude is part of the problem. They feel Irish because they are Irish. They aren't playing for "us", they are playing for their country which is Ireland. They are in no way comparable to non-Irish born players who feel Irish

Fr Tod Umptious · 20-11-2015 5:40pm

The Golden Miller wrote: »

This attitude is part of the problem. They feel Irish because they are Irish. They aren't playing for "us", they are playing for their country which is Ireland. They are in no way comparable to non-Irish born players who feel Irish

But they are.
The jurisdiction of the FAI is the 26 counties, all players from outside that juristiction can be compared the same way.
They are not playing for the FA who's jurisdiction they were born in.

LeBash · 20-11-2015 7:52pm

Fr Tod Umptious wrote:

But they are. The jurisdiction of the FAI is the 26 counties, all players from outside that juristiction can be compared the same way. They are not playing for the FA who's jurisdiction they were born in.

Not being smart. Have little interest in loi but how does Derry fit into that? I assume an exception?

Anyway, the Grealish thing sound like he would have played for Ireland but his dad got in his ear. He could even change his decision in time.

I think the agent made a play for the bigger money as agents do and Grealish was advised against what he wanted, followed by a bit of persuasion. He could be exceptional or another kid who flopps out of the Villa academy. Either way, any player we can call on is an asset.

I do find the anti English born players attitude from some horrible. There are none of them in the squad who aren't pulling up trees for Ireland and to be honest I don't care where they are from if they identify themselves as Irish on International duty. Some of the National teams best servants were born abroad.

AllGunsBlazing · 20-11-2015 8:04pm

LeBash wrote: »

I do find the anti English born players attitude from some horrible. There are none of them in the squad who aren't pulling up trees for Ireland and to be honest I don't care where they are from if they identify themselves as Irish on International duty. Some of the National teams best servants were born abroad.

Not a dependable way to source players. Grealish himself is proof of that. The English aren't exactly flush with world class talent themselves either. Any English born players with premier league potential will most likely be guarded jealousy by the FA, increasingly so as time goes by. We need our own means of production and that involves developing young players right here in our own back yard.

BOHtox · 20-11-2015 8:12pm

LeBash wrote: »

Not being smart. Have little interest in loi but how does Derry fit into that? I assume an exception?

Without knowing the full story, I believe it went something like this:
Derry were treated quite poorly by the IFA and they believed this to be down to sectarianism. They weren't allowed play in the Brandywell, for instance.

They played for donkeys years in junior football with no team in any major league.

They then asked permission from the IFA, FAI, FIFA AND UEFA to join the LOI and eventually were accepted in to the league.

eire4 · 20-11-2015 10:05pm

BOHtox wrote: »

This is ridiculous. I was talking about players not born in the 26 counties but who feel Irish but I like playing for us. Anyway that should be enough.

I get the point you were making but using Gibson McClean and Wilson are poor examples. They are all Irish born players and just as entitled to pull on the green shirt as any lad born in Dublin or anywhere else.

eire4 · 20-11-2015 10:12pm

Fr Tod Umptious wrote: »

But they are.
The jurisdiction of the FAI is the 26 counties, all players from outside that juristiction can be compared the same way.
They are not playing for the FA who's jurisdiction they were born in.

The Good Friday Agreement changes that picture. It recognises players such as Gibson and McClean being born in Derry or Wilson born in Antrim as Irish and thus eligible to play for Ireland. A player such as Walters born elsewhere has to have either a parent or grandparent born in Ireland to be eligible to play for Ireland no matter how Irish that person may feel.

monkey9 · 20-11-2015 10:34pm

A player born and raised on the island of Ireland is Irish as far as i'm concerned. If someone born in the North chooses or considers themselves British and want to play for the North, they're absolutely entitled to that and i've no issue with it.

I think Jonathan Walters pulling on the Irish jersey is an absolutely beautiful story. His Dublin born ma died when he was eleven and that's why he pulls on the green jersey. That's pride and passion right there. Everything he does in that green jersey, every goal he scores is for his ma.

eire4 · 20-11-2015 10:56pm

monkey9 wrote: »

A player born and raised on the island of Ireland is Irish as far as i'm concerned. If someone born in the North chooses or considers themselves British and want to play for the North, they're absolutely entitled to that and i've no issue with it.

I think Jonathan Walters pulling on the Irish jersey is an absolutely beautiful story. His Dublin born ma died when he was eleven and that's why he pulls on the green jersey. That's pride and passion right there. Everything he does in that green jersey, every goal he scores is for his ma.

It is a great story isn't it with Walters. Walters was without a doubt our best player in qualification for me.

sReq | uTeK · 20-11-2015 11:01pm

eire4 wrote: »

It is a great story isn't it with Walters. Walters was without a doubt our best player in qualification for me.

By a country mile - he's fast becoming one of my all time favourite Irish players. His passion is unrivaled. The picture of him with the president was top class. H just oozed pride after the game. Best moment of his career as he said

monkey9 · 20-11-2015 11:01pm

eire4 wrote: »

It is a great story isn't it with Walters. Walters was without a doubt our best player in qualification for me.

And that's all i want in an Irish player. Someone who pulls that green jersey on with a passion and Walters does that.

sReq | uTeK · 20-11-2015 11:05pm

eire4 wrote: »

The Good Friday Agreement changes that picture. It recognises players such as Gibson and McClean being born in Derry or Wilson born in Antrim as Irish and thus eligible to play for Ireland. A player such as Walters born elsewhere has to have either a parent or grandparent born in Ireland to be eligible to play for Ireland no matter how Irish that person may feel.

Ah seriously, give it a rest. The entire island is called IRELAND. in my opinion if you're born within the island youre more than welcome to call yourself irish. I don't need an IFA rule to tell me otherwise.

CSF · 20-11-2015 11:51pm

Politics of the North aside, my god do I love Walters.

The Golden Miller · 20-11-2015 11:55pm

BOHtox wrote: »

Derry were treated quite poorly by the IFA and they believed this to be down to sectarianism. They weren't allowed play in the Brandywell, for instance.

What "they believed" to be sectarianism? More like blatant sectarianism

Fr Tod Umptious · 21-11-2015 12:57am

eire4 wrote: »

The Good Friday Agreement changes that picture. It recognises players such as Gibson and McClean being born in Derry or Wilson born in Antrim as Irish and thus eligible to play for Ireland. A player such as Walters born elsewhere has to have either a parent or grandparent born in Ireland to be eligible to play for Ireland no matter how Irish that person may feel.

Yes I'm aware of what the GFA means for eligibility.
But my point is that the football in the place they are from is not run by the FAI, LOI or whom ever in Dublin*, its run from Belfast by the IFA. Irish League or whomever.

The place they are from is not part of the jurisdiction of the football authorities of the Republic of Ireland.

And its the very same for players born in England/Scotland/Wales who represent Ireland.

(*With the obvious exception of Derry City)

The Golden Miller · 21-11-2015 2:04am

Fr Tod Umptious wrote: »

Yes I'm aware of what the GFA means for eligibility.
But my point is that the football in the place they are from is not run by the FAI, LOI or whom ever in Dublin*, its run from Belfast by the IFA. Irish League or whomever.

The place they are from is not part of the jurisdiction of the football authorities of the Republic of Ireland.

And its the very same for players born in England/Scotland/Wales who represent Ireland.

(*With the obvious exception of Derry City)

Why are you so hung up on technicalities when in practice the FAI consider themselves a 32 county team? Well it's not the same for players born in England/Scotland/Wales. Eligibility is the whole crux of that point.

The original point made was about players "feeling Irish". The jurisdiction is actually irrelevant. The point is an Irish player from the north will play for Ireland, because in their head, the FAI's team is Ireland and they are Irish. It has nothing to do with "feeling Irish" but because they ARE Irish, which is not the case for the other players born in England/Scotland/Wales

Fr Tod Umptious · 21-11-2015 2:58am

The Golden Miller wrote: »

Why are you so hung up on technicalities when in practice the FAI consider themselves a 32 county team? Well it's not the same for players born in England/Scotland/Wales. Eligibility is the whole crux of that point.

The original point made was about players "feeling Irish". The jurisdiction is actually irrelevant. The point is an Irish player from the north will play for Ireland, because in their head, the FAI's team is Ireland and they are Irish. It has nothing to do with "feeling Irish" but because they ARE Irish, which is not the case for the other players born in England/Scotland/Wales

Well that will come as a surprise to many.
With the obvious unique exception of Derry City the FAI have no jurisdiction outside of the 26 counties.

They cannot consider themselves a 32 county body, there would be lawsuits all over the place if they did.

Yes they can play players who were born anywhere on the island, but that's as far as it goes.

The Golden Miller · 21-11-2015 3:01am

Fr Tod Umptious wrote: »

Well that will come as a surprise to many.
With the obvious unique exception of Derry City the FAI have no jurisdiction outside of the 26 counties.

They cannot consider themselves a 32 county body, there would be lawsuits all over the place if they did.

Yes they can play players who were born anywhere on the island, but that's as far as it goes.

You'll see I used the word team and not body. Anyway check the crest and all team merchandise. You'll see they've dropped "Republic of" and "FAIreland" names. What are you anyway? A freelance unionist debater?

eire4 · 21-11-2015 4:09am

Fr Tod Umptious wrote: »

Yes I'm aware of what the GFA means for eligibility.
But my point is that the football in the place they are from is not run by the FAI, LOI or whom ever in Dublin*, its run from Belfast by the IFA. Irish League or whomever.

The place they are from is not part of the jurisdiction of the football authorities of the Republic of Ireland.

And its the very same for players born in England/Scotland/Wales who represent Ireland.

(*With the obvious exception of Derry City)

Ok so the FAI does not control the day to day running of football in say Tyrone. So what. That has nothing to do with the fact that anybody born in Tyrone who wants to play for Ireland can do so because he is Irish. Anybody born in Scotland can only represent Ireland if they have a parent or a grandparent born here no matter how Irish they feel.

eire4 · 21-11-2015 4:13am

sReq | uTeK wrote: »

Ah seriously, give it a rest. The entire island is called IRELAND. in my opinion if you're born within the island youre more than welcome to call yourself irish. I don't need an IFA rule to tell me otherwise.

Give what a rest I am well award that the entire island is Ireland and that anybody born anywhere on this island is thus automatically eligible to play for Ireland. That is the very point I was making!

As for IFA rules they have nothing to do with it. In fact they fought tooth and nail to stop any Irish players born in Derry, Belfast etc from representing Ireland and thankfully they failed.

eire4 · 21-11-2015 4:18am

sReq | uTeK wrote: »

By a country mile - he's fast becoming one of my all time favourite Irish players. His passion is unrivaled. The picture of him with the president was top class. H just oozed pride after the game. Best moment of his career as he said

He is the very definition of the attitude you want to see from anybody pulling on the green jersey. Hopefully he can keep this brilliant form up for at least 2 more years and help see us through to the next World Cup Finals as well. That would be the perfect way for him to cap off his international career.

BOHtox · 22-11-2015 4:02pm

eire4 wrote: »

I get the point you were making but using Gibson McClean and Wilson are poor examples. They are all Irish born players and just as entitled to pull on the green shirt as any lad born in Dublin or anywhere else.

I never said they weren't. If you all read my post you should clearly see that there are two types of players
1) People who feel Irish (Be that born in Ireland, Belfast, Londonderry(Awaits bite*) or Manchester.
2) People who don't feel Irish but play for Ireland because it's their only chance of international football

tonycascarino · 22-11-2015 9:51pm

Jack was brutal yesterday with many Villa fans on their forum now realising he has a poor attitude & is just all hype. Good luck with that England call up Jack because it's miles off!

Dozen Wicked Words · 22-11-2015 10:46pm

tonycascarino wrote: »

Jack was brutal yesterday with many Villa fans on their forum now realising he has a poor attitude & is just all hype. Good luck with that England call up Jack because it's miles off!

Would the Irish call up have been much closer? Doubt it myself, surely Ireland have much better options than him as well at present.

tayto lover · 22-11-2015 10:57pm

Dozen Wicked Words wrote: »

Would the Irish call up have been much closer? Doubt it myself, surely Ireland have much better options than him as well at present.

He's just not good enough and wouldn't make it with either country. All hype.

Laois_Man · 22-11-2015 11:14pm

Not particularly interested in how good Grealish is going to be in the future but the judging by some of a 20 year old's ability which is to be valid forever more is ludicrous

Agent Coulson · 24-11-2015 10:51am

The English media are after him now that he is an English player

GLaDOS · 24-11-2015 10:54am

Agent Coulson wrote: »

The English media are after him now that he is an English player

Would have happened either way tbf, they'd have been happy to stick the boot in if he'd chosen us after all the coverage it got. He'll have to be smarter than that, the media will be happy to jump an anything he does after all the attention he's gotten.

Dozen Wicked Words · 24-11-2015 10:58am

ScienceNerd wrote: »

Would have happened either way tbf, they'd have been happy to stick the boot in if he'd chosen us after all the coverage it got. He'll have to be smarter than that, the media will be happy to jump an anything he does after all the attention he's gotten.

Yeah happened before he'd even decided.

http://www.independent.co.uk/sport/football/news-and-comment/jack-grealish-pictured-laying-in-the-floor-after-a-night-out-on-holiday-in-tenerife-10319867.html

RayCon · 24-11-2015 2:37pm

Don't worry ... his agent and his Dad are there to advise him.

TheDoc · 25-11-2015 1:30pm

While I've sympathy for him in this instance, and don't like that tribal knuckle dragging fan opinion that if a player loses a match they should sit in their house and cry about it for the weekend, you can't help but think he is missing a large portion of his brain, is being collymoddled by his father, and while he will likely go on to earn a fairly good financial income from football, he is very much doing what I felt he would.

Pretty much nothing of note.

Beefy78 · 25-11-2015 1:53pm

He's just turned 20 for goodness sake.

CSF · 25-11-2015 2:13pm

Beefy78 wrote: »

He's just turned 20 for goodness sake.

Yeah grand, but he's not performing on the pitch either so he can't get away with it.

You'll accept a few childish indiscretions when you're performing and establishing yourself in the team but Grealish needs to win it back right now.

He seems to think he has made it already, and he needs to get his head screwed back on his shoulders ASAP or he could be a Championship player in no time.

He has tonnes of potential but that's not going to count for much without hard work and a good attitude, neither of which Grealish is displaying right now. Never mind all the international talk, right now, in recent performances, Grealish isn't good enough to be a starter for Villa, Ireland or England.

AllGunsBlazing · 25-11-2015 8:03pm

The Daily Mail holds a dim view of footballers in general. A bit too working class for their liking, some of them even come from council estates! How vulgar....

Beefy78 · 25-11-2015 11:20pm

CSF wrote: »

Yeah grand, but he's not performing on the pitch either so he can't get away with it.

You'll accept a few childish indiscretions when you're performing and establishing yourself in the team but Grealish needs to win it back right now.

He seems to think he has made it already, and he needs to get his head screwed back on his shoulders ASAP or he could be a Championship player in no time.

He has tonnes of potential but that's not going to count for much without hard work and a good attitude, neither of which Grealish is displaying right now. Never mind all the international talk, right now, in recent performances, Grealish isn't good enough to be a starter for Villa, Ireland or England.

He's just turned 20 for goodness sake!

SantryRed · 25-11-2015 11:21pm

Beefy78 wrote: »

He's just turned 20 for goodness sake!

He's not a normal 20 year old and he's not living a normal 20 year old's lifestyle.

Marty McFly · 27-11-2015 6:55am

Beefy78 wrote: »

He's just turned 20 for goodness sake!

Your point being? Does it mean at 20 we all have carte blanche to be **** at our jobs and not perform?

I'm 20 it's ok don't fire me I'm allowed hide from all my responsibilities due to my age.

As others have said if he was performing well he'd be given much more leeway for that kind of behaviour but when your not you will always be more closely scrutinised.

Grealish called "Plastic Paddy"

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