Grealish called "Plastic Paddy"

Diabhal Beag

super_furry wrote: »

This is getting to be as tedious as the Rory McIlroy Olympic saga.

Nothing is more tedious than golf.

CSF

Don't think Grealish does himself any favours with that tweet. Someone so young should really be getting better guidance on use of social media, particularly on such a media hungry topic.

Should have said nothing.

Kidchameleon

Get rid of the granny rule, its a joke. If your not from a country then you cant play for that country, simples. I'd love to be part of a German world cup winning squad but guess what? I'm not feckin German! I have to deal with that, I don't want some stupid and frankly embarrassing rule to help me out.

EuropeanSon

Kidchameleon wrote: »

Get rid of the granny rule, its a joke. If your not from a country then you cant play for that country, simples. I'd love to be part of a German world cup winning squad but guess what? I'm not feckin German! I have to deal with that, I don't want some stupid and frankly embarrassing rule to help me out.

You do know not all German people get to be in that squad, right?

There are some other qualifications needed, which no current Irish person could actually meet, such as being good enough at football. A rule saying you are allowed wouldn't help you out much.

J Mysterio

CSF wrote: »

Don't think Grealish does himself any favours with that tweet. Someone so young should really be getting better guidance on use of social media, particularly on such a media hungry topic.

Should have said nothing.

What tweet?

CSF

J Mysterio wrote: »

What tweet?

He tweeted giving out that the papers knew more about him than he does, should have just kept it quiet rather than giving the papers another story

Paully D

How good is Grealish anyway? He's played one season in League One and made a few appearances in the Premier League. Maybe he'll turn out to be brilliant, how do any of us know now really?

People getting in a twist over a kids decision is very strange.

CSF

Paully D wrote: »

How good is Grealish anyway? He's played one season in League One and made a few appearances in the Premier League. Maybe he'll turn out to be brilliant, how do any of us know now really?

People getting in a twist over a kids decision is very strange.

He is very very highly rated, not that every young lad who we can say that about always ends up being a great player but still.

Utopia Parkway

Paully D wrote: »

How good is Grealish anyway? He's played one season in League One and made a few appearances in the Premier League. Maybe he'll turn out to be brilliant, how do any of us know now really?

People getting in a twist over a kids decision is very strange.

Saw him play against Germany U-21's there recently. Thought he was the best player on the pitch. Was definitely the most skillful.

He has a long way to go though but all the raw materials are there to be a really good player as long as he puts the head down.

Roy Keane when asked was Grealish close to making a decision...

"No, not that I am aware of. I don't ask him anymore. You don't want to pester people but, unfortunately, a lot would be coming from Jack's dad. We could be waiting a long bloody while, knowing his dad".

On the one hand, that won't really entice him. On the other hand, I'm glad he said it. As with the Martinez comments Keane seems to be doing a bit of a bull in a china shop routine, but in lashing out he is making some points...

http://www.birminghammail.co.uk/sport/football/football-news/aston-villas-roy-keane-hits-8119524

bucketybuck

Deleted User wrote: »

As with the Martinez comments Keane seems to be doing a bit of a bull in a china shop routine, but in lashing out he is making some points...

And I would be confident that O'Neill is more than happy for him to keep doing it.

anncoates

Kidchameleon wrote: »

Get rid of the granny rule, its a joke. If your not from a country then you cant play for that country, simples. I'd love to be part of a German world cup winning squad but guess what? I'm not feckin German! I have to deal with that, I don't want some stupid and frankly embarrassing rule to help me out.

I'd be favour of only allowing players to be eligible if they were born here or both their parents were.

MaroonAndGreen

Its fairly obvious that Grealish is waiting to get game time with Villa, so he can impress and get an England call up.. thats his No.1 choice here

~Rebel~

anncoates wrote: »

I'd be favour of only allowing players to be eligible if they were born here or both their parents were.

These kinds of rules don't work. You can't be so clean cut with it.

The most reasonable thing is to keep it as it is, and you then have the freedom to decide on a case by case basis.

For example with the above rules. What if a nice Polish couple move here with a one year old. He's raised here. He goes to school here. He gets Irish citizenship. He learns Irish, irish history and celebrities irish traditions. He's a great footballer.

Is he not Irish enough for our team?

Or even if I marry some American chick over here, have a kid, and then move back home with a 2 year old. So he's not born in Ireland, and only has one Irish parent, but grows up completely Irish. Not Irish enough according to the rules above?

And I do think you can be raised in England, with a very strong Irish identity. I dunno, just really think there's no point in imposing some strict rules upon what is considered 'Irish'. The key is going for the right people, who feel a personal pride in the country, and will fight to do everything they can for the team.

J Mysterio

Fully agree.

AllGunsBlazing

Either way the granny rule wont be anywhere near as fruiful for the FAI as it was in the past, especially when it comes to English born players. With so many foreign imports occupying the top EPL teams England has to cast it's own net that bit wider. Players that wouldn't have got a look in ten years ago now have a decent shot at making an England squad. The knock on effect is that some, like Grealish, will have Irish connections and may well have opted for Ireland in the past as a means of playing at international level.

And it's not like Ireland are an attractive proposition anymore either. We're currently navigating our way around the backwaters of international football and will be for quite some time to come.

J Mysterio

You're missing the point though... It's not about 'attractive propositions' and 'casting the net' and all that - it's about selecting a team of Irish/ Irish identifying players who are proud to play for Ireland and will give it socks.

Players who just want to further their career or who see playing for Ireland as a lesser alternative can go fucķ off!

AllGunsBlazing

I'm afraid you might have to make do with the mercenary types. Players who are simply 'proud to wear the shirt' seem to be going the way of the dinosaur at both club and international level.

Mezcita

AllGunsBlazing wrote: »

I'm afraid you might have to make do with the mercenary types. Players who are simply 'proud to wear the shirt' seem to be going the way of the dinosaur at both club and international level.

Who are the "mercenary types" who regularly get a game for us?

You have to assume that the guys who play for us on a regular basis are there because they want to be. That they will get a higher profile by appearing on the international stage is fair enough. But the reality is if they want to engineer a move to a bigger club they will still have to be good enough in the first place.

Sean St. Ledger is a decent example. 29 years old and 37 caps for us but currently without a club. Not saying he's a mercenary but my point is that just appearing for us on the international stage is not a guarantee of a move to a big club.

anncoates

~Rebel~ wrote: »

Is he not Irish enough for our team?

I don't think he is, no. IMO of course.

~Rebel~

anncoates wrote: »

I don't think he is, no. IMO of course.

How odd. I just can't see how someone being raised just as Irish as any of us, with full Irish citizenship, could be considered anything other than Irish just because they left the womb in a different location 20 odd years before.

anncoates

~Rebel~ wrote: »

How odd. I just can't see how someone being raised just as Irish as any of us, with full Irish citizenship, could be considered anything other than Irish just because they left the womb in a different location 20 odd years before.

Just how I feel.

That said, you have devised the most emotively edge case you could think of. :pac: A lot of these cases would be somebody born and bred in another country with a tenuous connection at best to Ireland.

I shroud confess that I was born in England to Irish parents and moved here when I was young. If I was a footballer, no matter what chances I had to play for another country, I'd declare for Ireland at the first opportunity if I was allowed.

GLaDOS

Fairly sure Paul McGrath wouldn't have been eligible for Ireland by those criteria, wasnt his father Nigerian?

Fitz*

The lad is born & bred English. I don't get why there is so much pressure on him to declare for Ireland. He is from Birmingham, a Villa fan all his life and yet he is continually being talked about declaring for Ireland? It doesn't make sense tbh. I know he played underage for Ireland but lot's of players have played for a different nation underage due to many circumstances like better facilities, more opportunities or parent pressure. And then go on to play for the country of their birth;

Rafinha - Born in Brazil. Played underage for Spain, and then declared for Brazil.
Kevin Prince Boateng - Born in Germany, played underage for Germany, then declared for Ghana.
Subotic - Born in Yugoslavia, played underage for US and then declared for Serbia (former Yugoslavia).

Why? - is it because we have no serious talent around the ages of 17-20 at a Premier League club, let alone a top one, and we are trying to claw onto the closest thing to a 'wonderkid' that we can? It sounds like it to me.

Dirty Dingus McGee

FitzShane wrote: »

The lad is born & bred English. I don't get why there is so much pressure on him to declare for Ireland. He is from Birmingham, a Villa fan all his life and yet he is continually being talked about declaring for Ireland? It doesn't make sense tbh. I know he played underage for Ireland but lot's of players have played for a different nation underage due to many circumstances like better facilities, more opportunities or parent pressure. And then go on to play for the country of their birth;

Rafinha - Born in Brazil. Played underage for Spain, and then declared for Brazil.
Kevin Prince Boateng - Born in Germany, played underage for Germany, then declared for Ghana.
Subotic - Born in Yugoslavia, played underage for US and then declared for Serbia (former Yugoslavia).

Why? - is it because we have no serious talent around the ages of 17-20 at a Premier League club, let alone a top one, and we are trying to claw onto the closest thing to a 'wonderkid' that we can? It sounds like it to me.

He's played underage for Ireland so in most circumstances you would think a a player who has played underage with a country will play at senior level with the country.I would imagine a very low percentage of players switch countries after they have played u-21 with a country.

Why shouldn't there be pressure on him to declare.He either wants to play for us or not.It isn't really that big a decision for him as most players would go with their heart and it really shouldn't be a logical decision that you have to put any thought into.

It seems obvious now that he's holding out and hoping England will pick him.Due to his humming and hawing I wouldn't even bother pursuing him and let him off.If he isn't 100% for playing with Ireland we shouldn't be bothering with him.

CSF

FitzShane wrote: »

The lad is born & bred English. I don't get why there is so much pressure on him to declare for Ireland. He is from Birmingham, a Villa fan all his life and yet he is continually being talked about declaring for Ireland? It doesn't make sense tbh. I know he played underage for Ireland but lot's of players have played for a different nation underage due to many circumstances like better facilities, more opportunities or parent pressure. And then go on to play for the country of their birth;

Rafinha - Born in Brazil. Played underage for Spain, and then declared for Brazil.
Kevin Prince Boateng - Born in Germany, played underage for Germany, then declared for Ghana.
Subotic - Born in Yugoslavia, played underage for US and then declared for Serbia (former Yugoslavia).

Why? - is it because we have no serious talent around the ages of 17-20 at a Premier League club, let alone a top one, and we are trying to claw onto the closest thing to a 'wonderkid' that we can? It sounds like it to me.

If he is English, is he is English, and that is fine. But then he shouldn't be playing in the Irish underage team.

If he is Irish, he is Irish, and that is fine. But then he shouldn't be holding out for the English national team.

DerekDGoldfish

I really don't see why people have such an issue with people being more that one nationality and having to be all or nothing to one as soon as you can walk.

Kidchameleon

DerekDGoldfish wrote: »

I really don't see why people have such an issue with people being more that one nationality and having to be all or nothing to one as soon as you can walk.

No, people are having a problem with this lad because he clearly wants to play for England.

CSF

DerekDGoldfish wrote: »

I really don't see why people have such an issue with people being more that one nationality and having to be all or nothing to one as soon as you can walk.

I don't really, but playing for the underage teams should be a declaration that that's the nationality you wish to pursue in your sports career and it bothers me when it's not, which is increasingly common.

LeBash

Its the lads choice and he clearly is in no rush. End of the day, hes played about 30 mins of prem football.

He clearly makes a effort to turn up for the youth set up and id say in time he will turn to Ireland.

From Keanes comments it sounds like his old man who is his agent that is holding him back. Cant argue with the fact he is following an agents advice. Tbh Villa have tradition of a convayer belt of wonderkids that have become duds. Hopefully hes not 1 but dont be surprised.

LeBash

LeBash wrote: »

Cant argue with the fact he is following an agents advice.

On the contrary, I think anyone who has to look to an agent to decide their identity should be given a kick up the hole and told to take some bit of control back in their lives. It's not a decision that should be delegated out to a money counter.

CSF

LeBash wrote: »

Its the lads choice and he clearly is in no rush.

Yes and that is why he is being criticised.

anncoates

Kidchameleon wrote: »

No, people are having a problem with this lad because he clearly wants to play for England.

Some Irish supporters - while paradoxically claiming to be the most patriotic fans in the whole world ever - seem to be fireproof to the embarrassment of cravenly mooning after players for whom Irish declaration appears to be a second choice.

scruff321

Ive really lost interest in all the hype surrounding this kid! What has he done to warrant this much attention??

CSF

scruff321 wrote: »

Ive really lost interest in all the hype surrounding this kid! What has he done to warrant this much attention??

Alex Bruce got a decent amount of attention...

jaykay74

scruff321 wrote: »

Ive really lost interest in all the hype surrounding this kid! What has he done to warrant this much attention??

Think he has done well in training or something, maybe also the reserves.

keeponhurling

He has à Twitter account , so it's easy for lazy journalists to present his latest musings as significant news

Two English born players declared for Ireland and made their debuts last night (having actually done stuff at club level) and it doesn't get half the attention

CSF

keeponhurling wrote: »

He has à Twitter account , so it's easy for lazy journalists to present his latest musings as significant news

Two English born players declared for Ireland and made their debuts last night (having actually done stuff at club level) and it doesn't get half the attention

Those players haven't been linked with Chelsea though. The media loves nothing more than a prospect.

LeBash

[Deleted User] wrote: »

On the contrary, I think anyone who has to look to an agent to decide their identity should be given a kick up the hole and told to take some bit of control back in their lives. It's not a decision that should be delegated out to a money counter.

Maybe the plastic paddy comment made him change his mind.

O'Neill says hes not going looking for him but those 2 shock jocks on rte made the point several times that he is actively calling up the other lads on the granny rule. So there is conflicting info there.

And maybe his old man wants him to play for England?

Taking his time on a choice that will effect the rest of his career doesnt make him a bad guy.

LeBash

CSF wrote: »

Yes and that is why he is being criticised.

Why should he rush?

PhlegmyMoses

Tbh, if I identified as both Irish and some other nation that is guaranteed to get to World Cups every 4 years, I'd be going for the World Cup team if I was good enough to get into it.

keeponhurling

LeBash wrote: »

O'Neill says hes not going looking for him but those 2 shock jocks on rte made the point several times that he is actively calling up the other lads on the granny rule. So there is conflicting info there.

Grealish told O'Neill we didn't want to be considered for the senior squad.

The other two told O'Neill they DID want to be considered.

How is that inconsistent ?

Did the RTE panel really say that to bash O'Neill ?

LeBash

LeBash wrote: »

And maybe his old man wants him to play for England?

Taking his time on a choice that will effect the rest of his career doesnt make him a bad guy.

Oh absolutely not. It's entirely his choice and good luck to him.

Far from saying he is bad or wrong, my posts on this thread were really a reaction to those who said he wants to play for us and he will declare for us and he only had to sort out his villa contract and he'd hop on board etc. when the evidence suggests he is not that enthused.

MaroonAndGreen

For those of you who havent seen Jack play before (I'd imagine there are a lot that haven't considering hes barely played in the Premier League) here is a sample of what he can do, although it is League One defending he is facing in this clip.

Seems talented, but if he doesn't really 100% want to commit then should we be chasing him?

Actually its clear enough that he isn't 100% committed to the Ireland set-up (its not been injury thats keeping him out, just wanting to concentrate on his club apparently). Does his talent make up for this lack of commitment?

J Mysterio

[Deleted User] wrote: »

On the contrary, I think anyone who has to look to an agent to decide their identity should be given a kick up the hole and told to take some bit of control back in their lives. It's not a decision that should be delegated out to a money counter.

:pac: spot on

J Mysterio

keeponhurling wrote: »

He has à Twitter account , so it's easy for lazy journalists to present his latest musings as significant news

Two English born players declared for Ireland and made their debuts last night (having actually done stuff at club level) and it doesn't get half the attention

Who?

MaroonAndGreen

J Mysterio wrote: »

Who?

Christie and McGoldrick

J Mysterio

Oh right yeah, cheers.

CSF

LeBash wrote: »

Why should he rush?

He shouldn't have played for the Irish underage teams if he hadn't made that decision. This boll*x of stringing along one nation for your development before defecting to another is exactly that.

keeponhurling

on one hand , the longer he stays with the Irish U21s , perhaps the less likely he is to switch to England, as he sees his team mates moving up to senior.

On the other hand, he's occupying a spot on a team whose purpose is to develop players for the senior squad. Which isn't right if he's not willing to play for the senior squad.