Grealish called "Plastic Paddy"

Beefy78 · 10-09-2015 4:12pm

TheCitizen wrote: »

This is not about ambition. It's about money.

I think it is about the fact that he is English.

Beefy78 · 10-09-2015 4:13pm

Mr.H wrote: »

England will likely qualify for every tournament over the next 12 years.

You're more confident than I am.

Laois_Man · 10-09-2015 4:16pm

Beefy78 wrote: »

I think it is about the fact that he is English.

Didn't seem to bother him when he was showing up for his 19 Irish caps at U17, U18 and U21 level.

Mr.H · 10-09-2015 4:16pm

secman wrote: »

So Gareth Bale chose Wales over England. ..no ambition there! And he ends up at RM !
. The same agent by the way....
.. claims he's lost out on millions because he chose Wales

! Don't think he's stuck for a few bob.

The same Gareth Bale who is WELSH

Grealish is ENGLISH

He choose to stay and represent his country of birth

We are talking about Grealish representing a country he probably hasnt even been to for more than a couple of days at a time or else representing his country of birth who can give him a higher standard of football..............

But yes he would show way more ambition playing for Ireland:rolleyes:

Mr.H · 10-09-2015 4:17pm

Laois_Man wrote: »

Didn't seem to bother him when he was showing up for his 19 Irish caps at U17, U18 and U21 level.

Carra played for everton as a schoolboy. Doesnt mean he gives a toss about Everton

FlawedGenius · 10-09-2015 4:22pm

Mr.H wrote: »

Carra played for everton as a schoolboy. Doesnt mean he gives a toss about Everton

Clubs is completely different there paying your wages, you should care about the country you represent. And Carra was an Everton fan growing up so I think he more than gives a toss about them, fool

GLaDOS · 10-09-2015 4:23pm

Beefy78 wrote: »

I think it is about the fact that he is English.

If it was a matter of just being English he would have decided a year ago tbf. This will be a calculated decision one way or another, based on what's best for himself careerwise and financially.

TheCitizen · 10-09-2015 4:31pm

Mr.H wrote: »

If he was a top player for Ireland he would be able to ask for more money anyway

Ok I'll try to put it a different way to see if you understand where I am coming from

The choice:

Ireland
If he chooses Ireland he is "almost" very likely to play a lot of games in the set up and go on to be one of the higher capped players in our squad. We may get to a tournament or a couple of tournaments in the next 12 years.

England
If he chooses England he has way more players to compete with to get a squad role let alone a starting one. England will likely qualify for every tournament over the next 12 years.

So if he chooses Ireland its the easy option. If he chooses England he has to play at a higher standard to get a spot but if he does then he will get to play in every competition at International level.

So how is choosing England above Ireland nothing to do with ambition?

Surely footballers want to play at the highest possible level and test themselves against the top players in the world? While money may happen because of that, surely choosing the more ambitious path is at least a little to do with ambition??

Another poster mentioned Bale, the same agent said the same about Bale but he failed to persuade Bale to make him more money by turning his back on Wales and switching to England. It was money - not ambition - that drove Grealish's decision to switch to England and the agent was clearly the one driving it.

The agent spelt it out for you, there is no debate about it, it had nothing to do with ambition.

Mr.Nice Guy · 10-09-2015 4:34pm

A lot of people seem quite cynical about this. I'm inclined to give him the benefit of the doubt. I think he has an affection for both countries and after taking time over the decision, he has gone with the country of his birth. I don't have any ill will towards him over that choice.

I really hope this guy isn't going to be inundated with a load of abuse, threats etc. on social media over this. I hope people show a bit of cop on.

The real disappointment is that we find ourselves clamouring for English-born players to represent us rather than directing more energy into coaching for Irish-born youngsters so we can develop players here who have no doubts about who they wish to represent.

Laois_Man · 10-09-2015 4:41pm

TheCitizen wrote: »

Another poster mentioned Bale, the same agent said the same about Bale but he failed to persuade Bale to make him more money by turning his back on Wales and switching to England. It was money - not ambition - that drove Grealish's decision to switch to England and the agent was clearly the one driving it.

The agent spelt it out for you, there is no debate about it, it had nothing to do with ambition.

Money and ambition are not mutually exclusive

In fact, they go hand-in-hand

More trophies and/or international success = more hype = higher transfer fee = higher wages and higher profile clubs to play for = more trophies.

TheCitizen · 10-09-2015 4:43pm

Mr.Nice Guy wrote: »

A lot of people seem quite cynical about this. I'm inclined to give him the benefit of the doubt. I think he has an affection for both countries and after taking time over the decision, he has gone with the country of his birth. I don't have any ill will towards him over that choice.

I really hope this guy isn't going to be inundated with a load of abuse, threats etc. on social media over this. I hope people show a bit of cop on.

The real disappointment is that we find ourselves clamouring for English-born players to represent us rather than directing more energy into coaching for Irish-born youngsters so we can develop players here who have no doubts about who they wish to represent.

Ireland are not clamouring for players. They are offering opportunities to players to play for Ireland if they are eligible. There is no clamouring involved. Harry Kane for example was offered the opportunity but declined stating he wanted to play for England.

Grealish is a different story. He used the media tug of war saga to boost his profile, and ultimately force a call up to the England squad. He won't care about online abuse, that doesn't matter and is juvenile and harmless. However he has behaved poorly in this matter in a very obvious way.

AllGunsBlazing · 10-09-2015 4:46pm

The granny rule is fast becoming a shortcut to nowhere. Sooner or later we're going to have to bite the bullet and begin to develop the game properly in this country. Step one would involve routing the current power structure within the FAI.

TheCitizen · 10-09-2015 4:49pm

Laois_Man wrote: »

Money and ambition are not mutually exclusive

In fact, they go hand-in-hand

More trophies and/or international success = more hype = higher transfer fee = higher wages and higher profile clubs to play for = more trophies.

In this case it's about money. In fact he could've had a longer and ultimately more successful international career with Ireland, simply because he'd have played more often. Robbie Keane for example has had a very successful international career, if he had been playing for England he'd have won maybe 1/4 of the caps he has won.

TheCitizen · 10-09-2015 4:54pm

AllGunsBlazing wrote: »

The granny rule is fast becoming a shortcut to nowhere. Sooner or later we're going to have to bite the bullet and begin to develop the game properly in this country. Step one would involve routing the current power structure within the FAI.

I agree with this but it's a separate issue. There will still be non Irish born players who will wish to play for Ireland and we're not the only country that picks players that are not born in the countries they play for.

Beefy78 · 10-09-2015 4:54pm

TheCitizen wrote: »

In this case it's about money.

In your opinion. Unless you know the guy....

TheCitizen · 10-09-2015 4:58pm

Beefy78 wrote: »

In your opinion. Unless you know the guy....

No, not my opinion. I'm basing that judgement on what his agent said. His agent was very clear; that it was money that motivated this switch.

lertsnim · 10-09-2015 4:59pm

If it is taking him this long to choose then I would rather he chose England.

Mr.Nice Guy · 10-09-2015 5:10pm

TheCitizen wrote: »

Ireland are not clamouring for players. They are offering opportunities to players to play for Ireland if they are eligible. There is no clamouring involved. Harry Kane for example was offered the opportunity but declined stating he wanted to play for England.

Grealish is a different story. He used the media tug of war saga to boost his profile, and ultimately force a call up to the England squad. He won't care about online abuse, that doesn't matter and is juvenile and harmless. However he has behaved poorly in this matter in a very obvious way.

Of course there has been a clamour. The media have gone totally overboard on this since day one and I don't think I'm the only supporter who found the whole saga embarrassing and cringeworthy.

And your views on Grealish are just pure speculation on your part. You have no more of an insight into his mind than I do. The reality is the Irish set-up gave him plenty of time to make the decision and he took it, as was his right. If they wanted a speedier decision then all they had to do was give him a deadline to decide by and stick by it.

There's no need for sour grapes if he chooses England. He had the right to choose and he appears to have chosen.

It's a pity but we move on and look forward and, I hope, wish the guy good luck without bitterness.

Laois_Man · 10-09-2015 5:17pm

TheCitizen wrote: »

In this case it's about money. In fact he could've had a longer and ultimately more successful international career with Ireland, simply because he'd have played more often. Robbie Keane for example has had a very successful international career, if he had been playing for England he'd have won maybe 1/4 of the caps he has won.

It depends on your criteria for successful international career

For Ireland, Keane has played in 2 tournament finals
If English, he could have played in about 6 - although a smaller part - but a smaller part for England is still bigger than no part for Ireland

TheCitizen · 10-09-2015 5:18pm

Mr.Nice Guy wrote: »

Of course there has been a clamour. The media have gone totally overboard on this since day one and I don't think I'm the only supporter who found the whole saga embarrassing and cringeworthy.

And your views on Grealish are just pure speculation on your part. You have no more of an insight into his mind than I do. The reality is the Irish set-up gave him plenty of time to make the decision and he took it, as was his right. If they wanted a speedier decision then all they had to do was give him a deadline to decide by and stick by it.

There's no need for sour grapes if he chooses England. He had the right to choose and he appears to have chosen.

It's a pity but we move on and look forward and, I hope, wish the guy good luck without bitterness.

He can make whatever decision he wants, he was eligible for England, play for them - that's fine. Just like Harry Kane and Bamford and others, there's no bitterness towards those players choosing to represent England - why would there be?

Grealish is a different story. My views on Grealish are based on the reality that he prevaricated on the decision long enough to get an indication from Roy Hodgson that he would pick him for the England squad. He used Ireland and the whole saga surrounding him to boost his profile and get into the England squad.

Corholio · 10-09-2015 5:23pm

I don't wish the guy bitterness either at all but it went on longer than it should have to be honest. If he went on another year or so, that would be his right as well, but in reality it would be a ridiculous amount of time. It's disappointing in a way because his international affinity has always been Ireland up through the different ages, it was only when he started to break through at Villa that all this talk began.

But hey hopefully he announces it soon so it can end. For what it's worth, I can't see the type of player he is fitting into Hodgson's style at all so it'll be interesting to see.

Beefy78 · 10-09-2015 5:40pm

TheCitizen wrote: »

No, not my opinion. I'm basing that judgement on what his agent said. His agent was very clear; that it was money that motivated this switch.

The representative was talking about a different player. Was he even talking in relation to Grealish at the time or has a historic quote been dug up by the media now? It wasn't at all clear from the article I read earlier.

tayto lover · 10-09-2015 6:10pm

Grealish used us. Plain and simple.
He won't make it with England anyway.
Very average player.

tonycascarino · 10-09-2015 6:53pm

There is no mention at all of Grealish switching or willing to switch in any other newspaper bar the UK Independent & even that has no quotes. The Irish media just copied their news from that one paper.

GLaDOS · 10-09-2015 6:54pm

tonycascarino wrote: »

There is no mention of Grealish switching or willing to switch in any other newspaper bar the UK Independent & even that has no quotes. The Irish media just copied their news from that one paper.

If he did declare for Ireland in the end the back-peddling form people will be funny

JPA · 10-09-2015 7:19pm

tayto lover wrote: »

Grealish used us. Plain and simple.
He won't make it with England anyway.
Very average player.

Used Ireland for what?

TheCitizen · 10-09-2015 7:32pm

JPA wrote: »

Used Ireland for what?

To force Roy Hodgson to bring him into the England squad and cap him.

JPA · 10-09-2015 9:14pm

TheCitizen wrote: »

To force Roy Hodgson to bring him into the England squad and cap him.

How will that benefit him?

Kidchameleon · 10-09-2015 10:43pm

From Grealish's press conference today...

Corholio · 10-09-2015 11:52pm

'Hasn't made a decision yet'

http://www.irishtimes.com/sport/soccer/international/jack-grealish-may-still-go-green-despite-reports-1.2347941

FlawedGenius · 11-09-2015 12:40am

Probably waiting to see if we qualify for the euros

mikeym · 11-09-2015 1:45am

Grealish and his buddy Steven Ireland can go to Mars.

I could have said worse but I would get an infraction.

11-09-2015 8:42am

Corholio wrote: »

'Hasn't made a decision yet'

http://www.irishtimes.com/sport/soccer/international/jack-grealish-may-still-go-green-despite-reports-1.2347941

Ah jaysus enough already, this is getting a bit embarrassing for all concerned

CSF · 11-09-2015 8:52am

Deleted User wrote: »

Ah jaysus enough already, this is getting a bit embarrassing for all concerned

The media are the problem here, not Grealish, O'Neill or Hodgson. If the media don't come out with a fabricated story saying Grealish has made a decision, nobody has to come out and clarify. Grealish has kept his head down throughout the thing and gotten on with his club football. People that want to pass him off as a spoilt primadonna here are way off. The chap has a genuine choice to make as regards nationality. Full Irish background, but lived in England all his life. He is genuinely both Irish and English.

The chap will have to live his whole career with whatever decision he makes so it is natural that he isn't making it on a whim. The will he/won't he stuff is all being driven by the media, not him.

TheCitizen · 11-09-2015 9:03am

CSF wrote: »

The media are the problem here, not Grealish, O'Neill or Hodgson. If the media don't come out with a fabricated story saying Grealish has made a decision, nobody has to come out and clarify. Grealish has kept his head down throughout the thing and gotten on with his club football. People that want to pass him off as a spoilt primadonna here are way off. The chap has a genuine choice to make as regards nationality. Full Irish background, but lived in England all his life. He is genuinely both Irish and English.

The chap will have to live his whole career with whatever decision he makes so it is natural that he isn't making it on a whim. The will he/won't he stuff is all being driven by the media, not him.

He can put an end to it and should have done by now. He could commit to one country or the other. He could even say I am concentrating on club football right now but I will play for Ireland - or England whichever he likes - when the time comes. It's a ridiculous saga and he's the one to blame for it.

Lovely Bloke · 11-09-2015 9:30am

Why should he put an end to it? Because it's annoying a few people? Well boohoo, stop reading the stories then.

TheCitizen · 11-09-2015 9:34am

Baldy Conscience wrote: »

Why should he put an end to it? Because it's annoying a few people? Well boohoo, stop reading the stories then.

Eh? There's people complaining that the media are speculating on Grealish. Grealish has the power to stop the speculation.

boohoo:pac: what are you talking about?

GLaDOS · 11-09-2015 9:36am

TheCitizen wrote: »

Grealish has the power to stop the speculation.

And everyone has the power to stop reading the speculation

TheCitizen · 11-09-2015 9:42am

ScienceNerd wrote: »

And everyone has the power to stop reading the speculation

A new mass movement has begun. Everyone is going to stop reading speculative articles in the papers.:pac:

CSF · 11-09-2015 9:46am

He obviously hasn't decided yet. There's no reason he should have to rush his decision to prevent people on the internet being annoyed by the media driven speculation.

TheCitizen · 11-09-2015 9:51am

CSF wrote: »

He obviously hasn't decided yet. There's no reason he should have to rush his decision to prevent people on the internet being annoyed by the media driven speculation.

What's stopping him committing one way or the other as Roy Hodgson has said? Blaming the papers and the internet for this dragged out saga is ridiculous.

Laois_Man · 11-09-2015 10:02am

I don't understand why it's so hard to make a decision

If it's a matter of the heart, everyone instantly or instinctively knows where their heart is.

The decision to be made only gets complicated and more difficult when you bring other criteria into the mix. And that simply has to be what's really going on here.

CSF · 11-09-2015 10:09am

Laois_Man wrote: »

I don't understand why it's so hard to make a decision

If it's a matter of the heart, everyone instantly or instinctively knows where their heart is.

The decision to be made only gets complicated and more difficult when you bring other criteria into the mix. And that simply has to be what's really going on here.

There is other criteria in the mix. Of course there is. For someone who is legitimately both Irish and English it is not a simple matter of the heart.

The_Kew_Tour · 11-09-2015 10:15am

TheCitizen wrote: »

Ireland are not clamouring for players. They are offering opportunities to players to play for Ireland if they are eligible. There is no clamouring involved. Harry Kane for example was offered the opportunity but declined stating he wanted to play for England.

Grealish is a different story. He used the media tug of war saga to boost his profile, and ultimately force a call up to the England squad. He won't care about online abuse, that doesn't matter and is juvenile and harmless. However he has behaved poorly in this matter in a very obvious way.

Ha!

You have changed your tune from few months.

Thought he was to play for Ireland?

CSF · 11-09-2015 10:20am

TheCitizen wrote: »

What's stopping him committing one way or the other as Roy Hodgson has said? Blaming the papers and the internet for this dragged out saga is ridiculous.

He hasn't decided. It's not for me or you to legislate what his decision should be or when he should make it. His responsibility is ultimately to himself.

TheCitizen · 11-09-2015 10:24am

The_Kew_Tour wrote: »

Ha!

You have changed your tune from few months.

Thought he was to play for Ireland?

I haven't changed my tune. I have always said he can play for England if he wants, my view is he should commit one way or the other.

TheCitizen · 11-09-2015 10:30am

CSF wrote: »

He hasn't decided. It's not for me or you to legislate what his decision should be or when he should make it. His responsibility is ultimately to himself.

If he's playing for Ireland or England his responsibility is for the team and country he represents. You are trying to make out that the media is causing the speculation - he is causing the speculation. Maybe he likes to be the centre of attention, and maybe he's waiting to see if he'll get an England call up with help from the attention he's getting. One way or the other, he is causing the speculation by delaying his commitment, nobody else.

Laois_Man · 11-09-2015 10:36am

CSF wrote: »

There is other criteria in the mix. Of course there is. For someone who is legitimately both Irish and English it is not a simple matter of the heart.

Why isn't it?
The heart can be in two places as far as I am concerned!

CSF · 11-09-2015 10:44am

TheCitizen wrote: »

If he's playing for Ireland or England his responsibility is for the team and country he represents. You are trying to make out that the media is causing the speculation - he is causing the speculation. Maybe he likes to be the centre of attention, and maybe he's waiting to see if he'll get an England call up with help from the attention he's getting. One way or the other, he is causing the speculation by delaying his commitment, nobody else.

Or maybe he just hasn't decided yet.

CSF · 11-09-2015 10:46am

Laois_Man wrote: »

Why isn't it?
The heart can be in two places as far as I am concerned!

Decisions are best made using the head. Whichever decision he makes, people won't really be able to say he abandoned his real nation as he has strong links to both so other factors do come into play.

Grealish called "Plastic Paddy"

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