Grealish called "Plastic Paddy"

We'll, going back to my OP...looks like Quinn got it right!

jacool

S. Goodspeed wrote: »

People born here aren't bothered to watch the team play so its hard to see why someone not born here would opt to play for that same team over the country of his birth.

What on earth has that got to do with anything?
Do you think he's been looking at the attendance figures and thinking "F*** me! They get twice as many people at Wembley. Way more people there to admire my hair!"

crushproof

henke wrote: »

Ireland need to learn from this. They should try to cap the likes of Daniel Crowley now.

Or, you know, we could finally start developing players from a young age and completely overhaul underage football in the country.
Rather than this over-reliance on second rate English born players.

I've no qualms about English born players playing for Ireland, but it's a bit of joke when the management scour the lower leagues looking for someone who has never expressed a desire to play for Ireland but they're eligible through their Granny.

bobbysands81

Best of luck to him.

Hope he goes on and has a great career.

Subcomandante Marcos

I reckon England will cap him in w friendly just to "seal the deal" and from then on he'll struggle to make the squad.

Utopia Parkway

He's still young but he doesn't strike me as someone who is guaranteed to win a lot of caps for England. If I had to guess he'll be in and out of the squad or on the fringes of it for much of his career. Of course it's always possible that he takes his game to a new level as he gets older.

TheCitizen

dixiefly wrote: »

Good post.

While I would accept that he is entitled to his decision and that on the benefit of the doubt it was a genuinely difficult decision he will of course be a loss to us considering our creative options.

Interesting that his statement mentions nothing about having enjoyed playing for Ireland when he did etc.

He isn't a loss to the senior Ireland team. He has never played for the senior Ireland team and never will. So for the Irish senior international set up, you can't be at the loss of something that you never had in the first place. He's no loss.

Lovely Bloke

Subcomandante Marcos wrote: »

I reckon England will cap him in w friendly just to "seal the deal" and from then on he'll struggle to make the squad.

a friendly doesn't cut it as a deal sealer any more.

Francie Barrett

crushproof wrote: »

Or, you know, we could finally start developing players from a young age and completely overhaul underage football in the country.
Rather than this over-reliance on second rate English born players.

Rather have a second rate English born player than a third rate LOI hoofballer.

crushproof wrote: »

I've no qualms about English born players playing for Ireland, but it's a bit of joke when the management scour the lower leagues looking for someone who has never expressed a desire to play for Ireland but they're eligible through their Granny.

What a load of drivel.

Firstly, Grealish doesn't play in the lower leagues and secondly, Grealish has clearly had a desire to play for us at some point given that he refused English call-up's in order to play for us from under 17 level to under 21 level. It's pretty clear that at some point - he's had his head turned for him.

Subcomandante Marcos

Baldy Conscience wrote: »

a friendly doesn't cut it as a deal sealer any more.

I thought that was changed again? Either way they have a few gimmes left in their group they can put him on the bench for and throw him on for 90 seconds at the end.

Francie Barrett

Subcomandante Marcos wrote: »

I thought that was changed again? Either way they have a few gimmes left in their group they can put him on the bench for and throw him on for 90 seconds at the end.

Francie Barrett wrote: »

England have already topped their qualifying group with two remaining competitive games (October 9th/12th). Barring injury, he will almost certainly be called up to the England squad for those games and be given his 5 minute token appearance to lock him down.

fyi

NIMAN

Now that he has declared for England, can I just say "m'eh".

Nothing special, will be surprised if he gets 20 caps for England.

The Golden Miller

Great news in my opinion. Was always just keeping his options open with Ireland. Seems like an attention seeking clown anyway. When financial and personal gain takes preference over one's nationality and allegiance to a country, then your best rid of such superficial types. It's good to know he won't be taking the place of someone who has dreamt their whole life of pulling on the green jersey, who is willing to give 110% to the cause

Ferris_Bueller

Would have liked him to declare for Ireland and I'd think he would have been appreciated much more as an Irish player rather than an English one, but it's his choice at the end of the day and if he feels English then who can blame him. He will probably earn more in his career as an England international than he would have as an Irish international.

Still expect him to get dogs abuse from Irish fans if ever lines out against us for England, he knows that making this decision.

dixiefly

TheCitizen wrote: »

He isn't a loss to the senior Ireland team. He has never played for the senior Ireland team and never will. So for the Irish senior international set up, you can't be at the loss of something that you never had in the first place. He's no loss.

No.

Just because he has not played with the senior team does not mean he is not a potential loss. If he could have been an improvement over what we have then he is a potential loss.

At the same time, we have to accept his decision and get on with it and rely more on home grown players.

henke

Soups123 wrote:

Wrong on so many levels

How so? Playing in a dead rubber two years ago when he was in good form for Notts County.

henke

crushproof wrote:

Or, you know, we could finally start developing players from a young age and completely overhaul underage football in the country. Rather than this over-reliance on second rate English born players.

I don't disagree with that for one minute that should be a priority but in the here and now it's the most likely scenario for a better team. Of course if these guys actually want to play for us.

TheCitizen

dixiefly wrote: »

No.

Just because he has not played with the senior team does not mean he is not a potential loss. If he could have been an improvement over what we have then he is a potential loss.

At the same time, we have to accept his decision and get on with it and rely more on home grown players.

I disagree. He's no loss. You can't be at the loss of something you never had.

If he had played for us at senior level on a few occasions - and played well - but then decided he didn't want to play for us anymore, then he's be a loss. Like Stephen Ireland.

ricero

what position does Grealish even play ?

Decision today did not surprise me what so ever. Was always gonna declare for england

Soups123

henke wrote: »

How so? Playing in a dead rubber two years ago when he was in good form for Notts County.

How many other players do you want to cap in this dead rubber, everyone from 15-18 that looks like they might be a good players.

Do you also think it is fair to rail road a 15/16/17 year old playing in the lower leagues of English football into a decision rather than allowing everyone choose there path?

There's many other reasons why its wrong but I dont have the time.

magma69

It's about time we got rid of the granny rule. It's a load of nonsense. I don't care if it weakens us. It undermines the whole idea of international football.

The Golden Miller

magma69 wrote: »

It's about time we got rid of the granny rule. It's a load of nonsense. I don't care if it weakens us. It undermines the whole idea of international football.

I wouldn't get rid of it. It can be easily abused for sure, but should the people of Irish descent who are genuine lose out?

magma69

The Golden Miller wrote: »

I wouldn't get rid of it. It can be easily abused for sure, but should the people of Irish descent who are genuine lose out?

What constitutes someone or Irish decent who is genuine?

I think it shouldn't go more than one generation. If you're from a country and your parents are from the same country, that's who you play for.

henke

Soups123 wrote:

How many other players do you want to cap in this dead rubber, everyone from 15-18 that looks like they might be a good players.

No one is putting a gun to their head they can simply can refuse like Grealish did recently. And no not everyone ideally players who look like genuine talents and have played underage for Ireland. Eg Grealish. There isn't that many in the lower leagues.

bazza1

The guy made a decision, good luck to him. If the English FA limit the number of "Foreigners" that a team may have in their squads,in the future, he becomes more valuable to his team as an "englishman". He looks a decent type of player. He feels that he has a better chance of qualifying for tournaments with England....probably right too! Harder for him to get into the England team, imo though.

The Golden Miller

magma69 wrote: »

What constitutes someone or Irish decent who is genuine?

I think it shouldn't go more than one generation. If you're from a country and your parents are from the same country, that's who you play for.

Well there is no definition, hence why the rule can be abused. But of course there are many genuine people of Irish decent who's allegiance's are only to Ireland. Should they lose out because a few abuse the rule?

NIMAN

He ain't all that.

But it kinda shows how desperate we are for players that many wanted him to declare for us. He's a good player, no better than that. Has been hyped up as per usual by the media who declare players world-beaters if they have a couple of good games.

tayto lover

Expected this. Greedy little sod who won't make it with England anyway.
He's not good enough.
He's no Richie Towell.

Lovely Bloke

magma69 wrote: »

If you're from a country and your parents are from the same country, that's who you play for.

What if you're from a country and your dad is from another, and your mother is from a different one?

magma69

Baldy Conscience wrote: »

What if you're from a country and your dad is from another, and your mother is from a different one?

Can play for any three. It's the granny rule I want gone, not the parent one.

NIMAN

Imagine if your Da, your Ma, Your granny, your other granny, your grandda, your other grandda were all from different countries!!

What a choice you'd have.

magma69

The Golden Miller wrote: »

Well there is no definition, hence why the rule can be abused. But of course there are many genuine people of Irish decent who's allegiance's are only to Ireland. Should they lose out because a few abuse the rule?

There is a definition, it extends to the grandparent. I think it should only extend to the parent.

After that, I think it should be tough luck imo. You have to draw the line somewhere.

magma69

NIMAN wrote: »

Imagine if your Da, your Ma, Your granny, your other granny, your grandda, your other grandda were all from different countries!!

What a choice you'd have.

Janusaj had a load of options available to him I believe.

NIMAN

Would be interesting to see all the international sides along with the figures for numbers of players they have that are in on the parent rule, and the grandparent rule.

AllGunsBlazing

crushproof wrote: »

Or, you know, we could finally start developing players from a young age and completely overhaul underage football in the country.
Rather than this over-reliance on second rate English born players.

I've no qualms about English born players playing for Ireland, but it's a bit of joke when the management scour the lower leagues looking for someone who has never expressed a desire to play for Ireland but they're eligible through their Granny.

That would require patience and long term investment. Stumbling blind from one qualifying process to another and throwing insane money at marquee name managers is how we do it. Olé, Olé!

Beefy78

Guys, FYI after lengthy deliberations I too am committing my international future to England. I await my call up for the October qualifiers.

bobbysands81

Man (Jack Grealish) who chooses English team over Irish team gets slated by men who choose English teams (Man U etc...) over Irish teams.

Nationality is a complex thing. Best of luck Jack.

death1234567

bazza1 wrote: »

If the English FA limit the number of "Foreigners" that a team may have in their squads,in the future, he becomes more valuable to his team as an "englishman".

It wouldn't be possible to do this under EU law. That' why the current system uses "homegrown" players so players like Fabregas count eventhough they aren't English. Grealish would be a "homegrown" player regardless of which international country he picked.

Lovely Bloke

What's even weirder is that there is this "agreement" in place where England, Scotland, Wales and NI don't "poach" each other's players, when there's really no way to show one's Welshness, Englishness or Scottishness, it's all the same country.

Vinny Jones, as English as jellied eels, represented Wales pretty much because England didn't want him.

The Golden Miller

magma69 wrote: »

There is a definition, it extends to the grandparent. I think it should only extend to the parent.

After that, I think it should be tough luck imo. You have to draw the line somewhere.

You said define what constitutes someone being genuine

The_Kew_Tour

Dont blame the lad at all. Good look to him. Be nice to be able to have our own talent come through besides depending on 1 lad.

martyos121

I would much rather have Mark Noble playing for Ireland than Grealish.

Rooney would've been ok too.

NIMAN

The number of Irish players making it at English clubs seems to be on the slide, so we can either develop a long term plan to produce better talent here, or else forever be a 4th rate nation picking scraps and leftovers from our big neighbours.

ceegee

Baldy Conscience wrote: »

What's even weirder is that there is this "agreement" in place where England, Scotland, Wales and NI don't "poach" each other's players, when there's really no way to show one's Welshness, Englishness or Scottishness, it's all the same country.

Vinny Jones, as English as jellied eels, represented Wales pretty much because England didn't want him.

Jones had a Welsh granny so was just as Welsh as many of our players are Irish

magma69

The Golden Miller wrote: »

You said define what constitutes someone being genuine

I thought you meant in the context of eligibility rules.

magma69

NIMAN wrote: »

The number of Irish players making it at English clubs seems to be on the slide, so we can either develop a long term plan to produce better talent here, or else forever be a 4th rate nation picking scraps and leftovers from our big neighbours.

The FAI aren't interested in developing home grown players or any kind of decent footballing infrastructure here. Ship em off to England to sort them out, like pregnant young wans getting abortions.

Paully D

He'll do the square root of **** all for England. I'd be amazed if he got into double figures in caps (not including the one Hodgson will be forced to give him to lock him up as soon as they get a chance), even more amazed if he sees playing time consistently in competitive games when England are playing their regulars.

Not that I think he'd have been the saviour for Ireland that some seem to think either. I've said it from day 1 so it's not sour grapes, but I think he's vastly overrated.

It'll be an interesting one to come back to in 5 years time.

CSF

He's done very well for Villa since coming in so I don't get where the overrated thing comes from. He's a good young prospect who is already a pretty decent Premier League player. Nothing more.

jacool

martyos121 wrote: »

I would much rather have Mark Noble playing for Ireland than Grealish.

Not playing the kind of cross field "passes" he played on Saturday.
Although, that did play in Robbie Brady, so maybe you're right

Duck Soup

CSF wrote: »

He's done very well for Villa since coming in so I don't get where the overrated thing comes from. He's a good young prospect who is already a pretty decent Premier League player. Nothing more.

He's shown decent form, no denying that. But an England team player? I wouldn't bet my house on it. Still, a footballer's professional life is a short one and if he can get into the team, then his profile is vastly improved.

On the other hand, would the likes of Andy Townsend or Mick McCarthy have ever had such long and varied careers, post-playing, without the springboard of playing for Ireland?

He's taking a calculated gamble that he's good enough to crack the England team. Personally, I can't see it. Good, but not good enough.