Areas in Ireland doing well

barneystinson

antoobrien wrote: »

Because I grew up watching it.

Digital had a reputation for hovering up all the best graduates and engineers in the area, whether they had projects for them nor not. This was at a time when the west was basically exporting its youth to England, USA, Canada & Australia.

Kicking that pool of talent loose in the early 90s created a dozen or more startups. The jobs growth started inn earnest in the mid 90s, when instead of factories replacing other factories (e.g. APC replacing Digital, Nellcor replacing Crown Control), new factories started coming in e.g. Boston Scientific, Merit Medical, new buildings for Medtronic etc.



No they won't, they'll leave the country. Why would you move somewhere that describes itself as having an air of despair and despondency?



First thing you've said that make sense.

Ahhhh, so you're from Galway. Riiiiiight.

Completely unbiased, do carry on!

antoobrien

Rightwing wrote: »

Cash. Cash is King. If there's 1 thing to learn today, that's it.

No, it's not, it's really not. Look at the cash being thrown at soccer players by Russian clubs, it's not enough to keep them there.

No there has to be something to keep them there, and you're not showing any reason to. Galway has a reputation of being a nice places to live, great nightlife and relatively easy access to some of the best landscape in the country.

Try concentrating on what Waterford has and sell that.

Rightwing

antoobrien wrote: »

No, it's not, it's really not. Look at the cash being thrown at soccer players by Russian clubs, it's not enough to keep them there.

No there has to be something to keep them there, and you're not showing any reason to. Galway has a reputation of being a nice places to live, great nightlife and relatively easy access to some of the best landscape in the country.

Try concentrating on what Waterford has and sell that.

It is. Teachers from Ireland are going to Dubai/Libya etc in the hundreds...why ?

Ireland is a fantastic country to live and work in. All of Ireland.

Get a high paying job, and not alone will Irish people move to Waterford, people from abroad will move there. That to me is as clear as can be.

antoobrien

barneystinson wrote: »

Ahhhh, so you're from Galway. Riiiiiight.

Completely unbiased, do carry on!

Yes, I'm from Galway barney, says so in my post information and has done since I joined boards.

If you want to actually check out anything I'm saying about the timelines, then you're free to, facts don't lie.

antoobrien

Rightwing wrote: »

Get a high paying job, and not alone will Irish people move to Waterford, people from abroad will move there. That to me is as clear as can be.

Right, so I'd move from Galway to Waterford if somebody threw enough cash at me.

I lived in Dublin for years for various reasons. I had opportunities to go to both Waterford and Limerick among others. Cash was on offer.

I'm back in Galway.

Cash isn't everything.

Rightwing

antoobrien wrote: »

Right, so I'd move from Galway to Waterford if somebody threw enough cash at me.

I lived in Dublin for years for various reasons. I had opportunities to go to both Waterford and Limerick among others. Cash was on offer.

I'm back in Galway.

Cash isn't everything.

No one is talking about you here. I'm talking about people in general. Why would someone sell their house and move their kids out of a school? :rolleyes:

Young graduates. That's the target market.

antoobrien

Rightwing wrote: »

No one is talking about you here. I'm talking about people in general. Why would someone sell their house and move their kids out of a school? :rolleyes:

Actually you are, directly. No kids, so no school and selling a house in Galway isn't exactly a problem right now and I've a job in hi tech company.

So give me a reason why, besides enough cash to make Yaya Toure jealous (and a birthday cake, mustn't forget that), that I would move to Waterford?

antoobrien

Rightwing wrote: »

If Galway can do it, Waterford can do it. But the politicians & IDA need to step up to mark. And 'we can't force the companies to move here' simply doesn't wash. Give them extra incentives FFS, a 6 year old in primary school would school most of them.

The IDA is already attempting to do in Waterford what it did very successfully in Galway, creating the facilities to attract jobs.

I suggest you get your hands on the export associations top 250 exporters report, you might find more reasons to be cheerful. A quick glance has 8 of the companies based in Waterford, with exports valued at over €3.6bn. Galway has 13 of the companies with exports valued at 7.125 bn

The difference in both job numbers & export value is entirely down to Boston Scientific.

Maybe you should start praising Waterford for punching above its weight and start encouraging it to kick on.

Rightwing

antoobrien wrote: »

Actually you are, directly. No kids, so no school and selling a house in Galway isn't exactly a problem right now and I've a job in hi tech company.

So give me a reason why, besides enough cash to make Yaya Toure jealous (and a birthday cake, mustn't forget that), that I would move to Waterford?

I think if we offered you €1m p.a you would move quickly to Waterford.
Cash is King.

Case closed.

Silentcorner

antoobrien wrote: »

If you look at the figures behind that report you'll find that employee pay & self employed earnings in Galway are over twice what they are in Waterford, so the effect of averaging over a larger population probably has something do do with it.

Does that make sense, the table I linked to gave the average disposable income. If the average Galway person was earning over twice that of the average Waterford person then the average disposable income would twice that of Waterford.

By your logic Cork and Dublin should be lagging also by virtue of their populations, would they not?

You are probably better at finding and interpreting CSO figures than I am, but I know in the case of Limerick for instance, where the ADI is higher than that of Galway, does not include the population overspill in to South East Clare, which imo would increase the ADI figure for the city. It would also be around the same population of Galway City and county (220,000)

Rightwing

Silentcorner wrote: »

Does that make sense, the table I linked to gave the average disposable income. If the average Galway person was earning over twice that of the average Waterford person then the average disposable income would twice that of Waterford.

By your logic Cork and Dublin should be lagging also by virtue of their populations, would they not?

You are probably better at finding and interpreting CSO figures than I am, but I know in the case of Limerick for instance, where the ADI is higher than that of Galway, does not include the population overspill in to South East Clare, which imo would increase the ADI figure for the city. It would also be around the same population of Galway City and county (220,000)

Good points, but what exactly does that figure mean ?

Punters in Galway for instance may have bought expensive property at the height of the boom, property prices went bananas there. They may not have as much disposable income now as elsewhere as a result.

Silentcorner

Rightwing wrote: »

Good points, but what exactly does that figure mean ?

Punters in Galway for instance may have bought expensive property at the height of the boom, property prices went bananas there. They may not have as much disposable income now as elsewhere as a result.

I am not sure to be honest, it's why I ask the question, ADI would indicate the amount of spending power per person, I do not think property has much to do with it, as a lot of Limerick people have holiday homes in Clare/Kerry etc, which would add to up to a greater property investment total, I am just questioning the reality of the Galway success story that the poster was alluding to, a lot of people buy into it, but I am not so sure. If the figure is highly nuanced then why produce the figure's in the first place.

Lets be honest about it, Irish people are well capable of spinning a yarn, Irish tourist towns are particularly talented in that regard.

con___manx1

mariaalice wrote: »

How come some town and areas in Ireland are doing so much better that others, for example I was in Dungarven recently and its doing very well you don't see the boarded up shops etc you see in say some towns in the midlands. It the same with Waterford. It might be to do with having a wealthy hinterland and to always been well a developed area and maybe to do with having a more diverse economy, tourism farming and manufacturing. Its not something that can be replicated no matter how much the investment.

Visiting various areas in Ireland its amazing the difference economically in areas considering Ireland is so small.

waterford had the highest unemployment rate in the country at one time 25%

Rightwing

Silentcorner wrote: »

I am not sure to be honest, it's why I ask the question, ADI would indicate the amount of spending power per person, I do not think property has much to do with it, as a lot of Limerick people have holiday homes in Clare/Kerry etc, which would add to up to a greater property investment total, I am just questioning the reality of the Galway success story that the poster was alluding to, a lot of people buy into it, but I am not so sure. If the figure is highly nuanced then why produce the figure's in the first place.

Lets be honest about it, Irish people are well capable of spinning a yarn, Irish tourist towns are particularly talented in that regard.

I found your point interesting, but I wouldn't pay too much attention to this disposable income. But property has a lot to do with it, any investments do, as does age profile, a region with more retired people will have cash. Galway has a young population. Also Galway has a lot of restaurants etc, these wages are basically not much better than welfare.

murphaph

Rightwing wrote: »

Agreed, but if skilled people are prepared to emigrate for a job, I suspect they'd go to Waterford. For the benefit of the overall country I think these extra incentives should be rolled out at the expense of Dublin. People in Dublin foolishly like to see most of the jobs go there, all that does is put pressure on housing and infrastructure.

You mean like the overcrowded metro system and all that stuff in Dublin lol....

You can't beat the Irish for wanting to spread the butter so thinly it's transparent.

Rightwing

murphaph wrote: »

You mean like the overcrowded metro system and all that stuff in Dublin lol....

You can't beat the Irish for wanting to spread the butter so thinly it's transparent.

No, I mean the 37 kids in a classroom, or the hospitals overflowing.

murphaph

Simple answer. Build infrastructure for Dublin and 2 or 3 other cities and STOP trying to provide jobs in every one horse town in Ireland. It doesn't work. Rural Danes, Germans, Scots, Spanish etc. etc. migrate to their cities to live and work. The Irish used to as well.

Rightwing

murphaph wrote: »

Simple answer. Build infrastructure for Dublin and 2 or 3 other cities and STOP trying to provide jobs in every one horse town in Ireland. It doesn't work. Rural Danes, Germans, Scots, Spanish etc. etc. migrate to their cities to live and work. The Irish used to as well.

Well I'd say the main regions. No harm for instance in seeing Dundalk get paypal etc.

Dannyboy83

I'm not sure if there has been a big increase in employment in Cork, or if it's because they made such a mess of the road network with all the lane reductions due to the cycling infrastructure, but traffic in Cork is starting to become problematic.

Hopefully people will start to use the cycling lanes; it seems a lot of students are driving these days.

Packrat

murphaph wrote: »

Simple answer. Build infrastructure for Dublin and 2 or 3 other cities and STOP trying to provide jobs in every one horse town in Ireland. It doesn't work. Rural Danes, Germans, Scots, Spanish etc. etc. migrate to their cities to live and work. The Irish used to as well.

No, the Irish specifically did not. Please stop repeating this lie.

antoobrien

Silentcorner wrote: »

Does that make sense, the table I linked to gave the average disposable income.

You never posted a table, you posted an indo graphic that put up headline averages for counties without any analysis of the contents of the report.

Silentcorner wrote: »

If the average Galway person was earning over twice that of the average Waterford person then the average disposable income would twice that of Waterford.

Go take a read of the tables I linked, they're fairly straightforward. The the only information they are missing is the populations numbers they're using to create the "average household income", which can be obtained from census information.

What I said was correct, there is over twice as much income in Galway than there is in Waterford. There is also over twice as many people to balance that out when it comes to averages.

Silentcorner wrote: »

By your logic Cork and Dublin should be lagging also by virtue of their populations, would they not?

How do you get that kind of misinterpretation from the figures? Gross county wages divided by the number of households is a great leveller.

Dublin & Cork, by virtue of their larger populations will have a larger proportion of low earners. Cork will have a larger amount of farmers, same with Galway.

Silentcorner wrote: »

You are probably better at finding and interpreting CSO figures than I am,

Google is great, you should try it.

Or even read the articles, the report name is usually buroed in thre and sreach the CSO website.

Also reading the actual statistics and not relying on the shoddy "analysis" of joournos will help.

Silentcorner wrote: »

but I know in the case of Limerick for instance, where the ADI is higher than that of Galway, does not include the population overspill in to South East Clare, which imo would increase the ADI figure for the city. It would also be around the same population of Galway City and county (220,000)

Yeah and Galway is the regional employment center for Mayo Roscommon and North Clare. By the same token Dublin's income should also be recalculated for those living in Lough, Meath, Westmeath, Kildare, Offally, Loais, Carlow, & Wicklow (at an absolute minimum) that work in Dublin.


But the report was about where people lived, not worked.

antoobrien

Rightwing wrote: »

I think if we offered you €1m p.a you would move quickly to Waterford.
Cash is King.

Case closed.

Nope. An employer that's willing to pay me €1m is an employer that's not going to be around to cut the check for my first month's salary.

Rightwing

antoobrien wrote: »

Nope. An employer that's willing to pay me €1m is an employer that's not going to be around to cut the check my first month's salary.

Let's make it really simple, as basic as we can.

There isn't a school in this country, be it in Donegal, west Kerry, Waterford that can't fill a post. In fact, there are hundreds lining up for them. Same with Gardaí, no area has difficulty recruiting. Once the job exists, the workers go there. Only a fool would think otherwise.

Godge

Rightwing wrote: »

Let's make it really simple, as basic as we can.

There isn't a school in this country, be it in Donegal, west Kerry, Waterford that can't fill a post. In fact, there are hundreds lining up for them. Same with Gardaí, no area has difficulty recruiting. Once the job exists, the workers go there. Only a fool would think otherwise.

One of the biggest hindrances to Ireland's economic development over the last 50 years has been the inability of the politicians to prioritise development in at most three centres. A country of Ireland's size at best could only manage three decent cities. However, we wanted something for everyone.

As a result, people voted with their feet and moved to Dublin, as did the jobs.

Yes, during the froth on the boom, it didn't matter where you lived, you got a job. That all disappeared. Now the growth is coming back and it is all in Dublin. That will not change until such time as we wake up to the reality that the country isn't big enough to have cities in Cork, Galway, Limerick, Sligo and Waterford, let alone what people in Kilkenny, Dundalk, Tralee, Athlone etc. are looking for.

Packrat

Godge wrote: »

One of the biggest hindrances to Ireland's economic development over the last 50 years has been the inability of the politicians to prioritise development in at most three centres. A country of Ireland's size at best could only manage three decent cities. However, we wanted something for everyone.

As a result, people voted with their feet and moved to Dublin, as did the jobs.

Yes, during the froth on the boom, it didn't matter where you lived, you got a job. That all disappeared. Now the growth is coming back and it is all in Dublin. That will not change until such time as we wake up to the reality that the country isn't big enough to have cities in Cork, Galway, Limerick, Sligo and Waterford, let alone what people in Kilkenny, Dundalk, Tralee, Athlone etc. are looking for.

So we knock down Cork, Limerick, Galway ?

Idiotic post.

antoobrien

Rightwing wrote: »

Once the job exists, the workers go there. Only a fool would think otherwise.

There could be 20,000 building jobs in Donegal, Waterford & Kerry but they wouldn't be worth a curse to me with my (rather different) qualifications.

So no, workers won't just "go there" and anybody who thinks they will are deluded and we get Carrick On Shannon all over again.

Godge

Packrat wrote: »

So we knock down Cork, Limerick, Galway ?

Idiotic post.

You see, "we" have nothing to do with it.

You can't force employers to set up in Cork, Limerick or Galway. You can't force people to move to Cork, Limerick or Galway.

All government can do is incentivise one or the other. By incentivising everywhere for the last 50 years, they incentivised nowhere. Dublin, by virtue of its existing size and headstart benefitted.

A really visionary 1970s development policy would have seen say Cork and Galway earmarked for industrial development at the expense of everywhere else. Instead we had a policy of industrial development in every hamlet. A truly idiotic policy pursued by idiotic politicians and welcomed by idiotic rural campaigners.

It may now be too late for development outside Dublin. Cork has a decent pharmaceutical industry but there isn't a strong enough broadly based industrial presence in any of the other "cities" for long-term development.

Packrat

Godge wrote: »

You see, "we" have nothing to do with it.

You can't force employers to set up in Cork, Limerick or Galway. You can't force people to move to Cork, Limerick or Galway.

All government can do is incentivise one or the other. By incentivising everywhere for the last 50 years, they incentivised nowhere. Dublin, by virtue of its existing size and headstart benefitted.

A really visionary 1970s development policy would have seen say Cork and Galway earmarked for industrial development at the expense of everywhere else. Instead we had a policy of industrial development in every hamlet. A truly idiotic policy pursued by idiotic politicians and welcomed by idiotic rural campaigners.

It may now be too late for development outside Dublin. Cork has a decent pharmaceutical industry but there isn't a strong enough broadly based industrial presence in any of the other "cities" for long-term development.

Ya know, I half agree with the point you're making, but when you couch it in grossly offensive terms like you do, simply to get your stupid petty digs in, then you've lost.
Your like are the reason we were ruled from abroad for so long, - insecure fools in the pale trying to feel better about themselves by belittling others.

Rightwing

antoobrien wrote: »

There could be 20,000 building jobs in Donegal, Waterford & Kerry but they wouldn't be worth a curse to me with my (rather different) qualifications.

So no, workers won't just "go there" and anybody who thinks they will are deluded and we get Carrick On Shannon all over again.

There couldn't be. That's hypothetical waffle.

Godge

Packrat wrote: »

Ya know, I half agree with the point you're making, but when you couch it in grossly offensive terms like you do, simply to get your stupid petty digs in, then you've lost.
Your like are the reason we were ruled from abroad for so long, - insecure fools in the pale trying to feel better about themselves by belittling others.

Don't know where you get the idea that I was being grossly offensive to anyone except to the politicians and civil servants who put us on this road of poor development.

Not belittling anyone who lives outside the pale:).

Rightwing

Godge wrote: »

One of the biggest hindrances to Ireland's economic development over the last 50 years has been the inability of the politicians to prioritise development in at most three centres. A country of Ireland's size at best could only manage three decent cities. However, we wanted something for everyone.

As a result, people voted with their feet and moved to Dublin, as did the jobs.

Yes, during the froth on the boom, it didn't matter where you lived, you got a job. That all disappeared. Now the growth is coming back and it is all in Dublin. That will not change until such time as we wake up to the reality that the country isn't big enough to have cities in Cork, Galway, Limerick, Sligo and Waterford, let alone what people in Kilkenny, Dundalk, Tralee, Athlone etc. are looking for.

Our economic model is flawed. It's a 1 trick pony. Foreign investment.

Do you honestly think that if Limerick had got the tax breaks that the Dublin docklands/IFSC got, that the companies wouldn't have moved there?

Our model is all about tax breaks. Our growth could disappear very quickly when taxation for corporations is changed.

Silentcorner

Perhaps we should impose a one child per family law in areas outside of Dublin and Cork, that would solve the problem in a few years right?

The most obvious flaw of our dysfunctional political system is it's failure to provide employment for it's citizens. We have lost too many generations of Irish people to emigration, the population of this country should be 6-7 million based around multiple population centre's around the island, England has managed a population of 53million on an area just over twice the size of Ireland, and yes, that is with several dozen cities.

What we have is a very parochial political system, in a very centralised system of government, and in that system the most powerful parish will trump all others.

There are several dozen FDI companies in the Limerick area, they are not here because they believe we are all genius's or the best workforce in the country. The same applies to Dublin/Cork/Galway/Waterford...the problem was the completely unequal distribution of that investment. This FDI investment was being won at a time when the FF Government were attempting to move settled civil servants into the regions, which was never going to happen, imagine trying to move Google to another provincial town?, so why was the FDI strategy geared toward filling up Dublin's office space, driving the cost of everything up with it.

Silentcorner

antoobrien wrote: »

You never posted a table, you posted an indo graphic that put up headline averages for counties without any analysis of the contents of the report.



Go take a read of the tables I linked, they're fairly straightforward. The the only information they are missing is the populations numbers they're using to create the "average household income", which can be obtained from census information.

What I said was correct, there is over twice as much income in Galway than there is in Waterford. There is also over twice as many people to balance that out when it comes to averages.



How do you get that kind of misinterpretation from the figures? Gross county wages divided by the number of households is a great leveller.

Dublin & Cork, by virtue of their larger populations will have a larger proportion of low earners. Cork will have a larger amount of farmers, same with Galway.




Google is great, you should try it.

Or even read the articles, the report name is usually buroed in thre and sreach the CSO website.

Also reading the actual statistics and not relying on the shoddy "analysis" of joournos will help.



Yeah and Galway is the regional employment center for Mayo Roscommon and North Clare. By the same token Dublin's income should also be recalculated for those living in Lough, Meath, Westmeath, Kildare, Offally, Loais, Carlow, & Wicklow (at an absolute minimum) that work in Dublin.


But the report was about where people lived, not worked.

But then, the wealth that Galway is creating would spill into Mayo, Roscommon and North Clare, but that is not happening either according to the table you provided.

I think it is time to park this one, I have anecdotal evidence to back up my point but that is all it is, I'm sure you could do the same, I don't wish to engage with you any further, the table from the Indo is as reliable as the Indo, but the table you linked to confirms that the average disposable income in the West is lower than that of the South East.

http://www.cso.ie/en/releasesandpublications/er/cirgdp/countyincomesandregionalgdp2011/#.VCAT3RxQAQl

chopper6

Rightwing wrote: »

Our economic model is flawed. It's a 1 trick pony. Foreign investment.

Do you honestly think that if Limerick had got the tax breaks that the Dublin docklands/IFSC got, that the companies wouldn't have moved there?

Our model is all about tax breaks. Our growth could disappear very quickly when taxation for corporations is changed.

You keep babbling on about "investment" as if multinationals are the only thing keepingthe country alive.

Tourism is our number one industry and it always will be.

People travel from all over the world to visit ireland,see Irish sites and they spend thier money here visiting restaurants,staying in hotels and buying irish goods.

This was the case long before your beloved multinationals were here and it will be the case long after they leave..and leave they will.

Sustained growth should be concentrating on indiginous irish business and growth in tourism and agriculture..not relying on Apple setting up a sweatshop to employ a couple of hundred people.

Rightwing

chopper6 wrote: »

You keep babbling on about "investment" as if multinationals are the only thing keepingthe country alive.

Tourism is our number one industry and it always will be.

People travel from all over the world to visit ireland,see Irish sites and they spend thier money here visiting restaurants,staying in hotels and buying irish goods.

This was the case long before your beloved multinationals were here and it will be the case long after they leave..and leave they will.

Sustained growth should be concentrating on indiginous irish business and growth in tourism and agriculture..not relying on Apple setting up a sweatshop to employ a couple of hundred people.

Oh dear, it's getting worse, the thread is now plumbing the depths in terms of downright stupidity.

jackofalltrades

Rightwing wrote: »

Our economic model is flawed. It's a 1 trick pony. Foreign investment.

Our model is all about tax breaks. Our growth could disappear very quickly when taxation for corporations is changed.

Foreign investment isn't just down to our corporation tax rate.
The fact that we're in the EU, are part of the Euro, speak English, have an Anglo-Saxon legal system and have a similar culture to the US, also play a big part in why US companies invest here.

Do you honestly think that if Limerick had got the tax breaks that the Dublin docklands/IFSC got, that the companies wouldn't have moved there?

Dublin is competing against other large European cities when it comes to attracting the type of companies that setup in the IFSC and the Dublin Docklands.
The IFSC main competion seems to be London.

The IFSC employs 35,000 people directly and many thousands more indirectly.
There is no way Limerick with it's population of 192,000 could sustain that many jobs.

Spending less money attracting these companies to Dublin isn't going to lead to them setting up outside of it.
It's just going to lead to them setting up in another country.

BoJack Horseman

chopper6 wrote: »

You keep babbling on about "investment" as if multinationals are the only thing keepingthe country alive.

Tourism is our number one industry and it always will be.

People travel from all over the world to visit ireland,see Irish sites and they spend thier money here visiting restaurants,staying in hotels and buying irish goods.

This was the case long before your beloved multinationals were here and it will be the case long after they leave..and leave they will.

Sustained growth should be concentrating on indiginous irish business and growth in tourism and agriculture..not relying on Apple setting up a sweatshop to employ a couple of hundred people.

Its obviously escaped you that governments work hard at growing both agriculture & tourism.

Both are on the up.

There are even government Dept's devoted to it.

Rightwing

jackofalltrades wrote: »

Foreign investment isn't just down to our corporation tax rate.
The fact that we're in the EU, are part of the Euro, speak English, have an Anglo-Saxon legal system and have a similar culture to the US, also play a big part in why US companies invest here.

Dublin is competing against other large European cities when it comes to attracting the type of companies that setup in the IFSC and the Dublin Docklands.
The IFSC main competion seems to be London.

The IFSC employs 35,000 people directly and many thousands more indirectly.
There is no way Limerick with it's population of 192,000 could sustain that many jobs.

Spending less money attracting these companies to Dublin isn't going to lead to them setting up outside of it.
It's just going to lead to them setting up in another country.

I agree to some extent with this. But that means you are neglecting regions.

But that's essentially my point, some regions are doing better than other regions for various reasons, the main one being where FDI is going. You could quickly turn a poor region's fortunes around overnight for instance, by exempting companies from tax say for 5 years.

jackofalltrades

Rightwing wrote: »

I agree to some extent with this. But that means you are neglecting regions.

It doesn't though.
The companies were highly unlikely to setup outside of Dublin in the first place.
You have to also remember that Dublin along with Cork and a few other areas subsidise the rest of the country.
If Dublin isn't economically strong then the rest of the country suffers.

Godge

Rightwing wrote: »

Our economic model is flawed. It's a 1 trick pony. Foreign investment.

Do you honestly think that if Limerick had got the tax breaks that the Dublin docklands/IFSC got, that the companies wouldn't have moved there?

Our model is all about tax breaks. Our growth could disappear very quickly when taxation for corporations is changed.

Limerick did get the tax breaks.

Do you not realise that one of the failure of the 1990s and the 2000s was the extension of property tax breaks to every little town in the country.

See appendix 3 of the revenue guide to Section 23 relief issued in 2008.

If somewhere, sorry anywhere, is going to compete with Dublin, it will need criticial mass. To get that place (I don't care which so long as it is at least 150km from Dublin) critical mass, it will mean ignoring every other place.

Godge

Rightwing wrote: »

I agree to some extent with this. But that means you are neglecting regions.

But that's essentially my point, some regions are doing better than other regions for various reasons, the main one being where FDI is going. You could quickly turn a poor region's fortunes around overnight for instance, by exempting companies from tax say for 5 years.

But it would have to be one small region only, which is why it either won't happen or it will fail.

chopper6

Rightwing wrote: »

You could quickly turn a poor region's fortunes around overnight for instance, by exempting companies from tax say for 5 years.

Where would be the benefit to the exchequer?

That a multinational hired 100 people and is not paying any tax?

That's gonna work wonders,quite apart from the fact that companies tend not to set up in the bogarse of nowhere away from roads,ports,airports and facilities.

Rural areas are rural areas precisely because they are not a city..and cities are where business tends to be based.

barneystinson

chopper6 wrote: »

not relying on Apple setting up a sweatshop to employ a couple of hundred people.

Tell me more about the sweatshop Apple are operating here?!

chopper6

barneystinson wrote: »

Tell me more about the sweatshop Apple are operating here?!

I never said they were.

I said that people think that rundown areas can be invigorated by Apple etc "investing" in the region.

These "investments" like Dell before them and Gateway 2000 and Motorolla are usually production line facilitities that pay comparitivley well but tend not to stay for long.

everdead.ie

chopper6 wrote: »

I never said they were.

I said that people think that rundown areas can be invigorated by Apple etc "investing" in the region.

These "investments" like Dell before them and Gateway 2000 and Motorolla are usually production line facilitities that pay comparitivley well but tend not to stay for long.

In Fairness Apple have been in Ireland going on 35 years not really a short term investment.

chopper6

everdead.ie wrote: »

In Fairness Apple have been in Ireland going on 35 years not really a short term investment.

They're one example....there's been dozens that have come and go.

Of course the people who work for them think they're the be all and end all of the irish economy depsite them owing no loyalty whatever to host countries.

yer man!

I work in Waterford and have been doing so for the past year or so, things do seem to be getting better for the city but it has been badly affected over the past few years. More needs to be done to attract people there to be honest, I mean there's really nowhere to shop in the city, you have to go to cork or Kilkenny for decent clothes or anything. We have a big problem down there in my company with people leaving the place after a year as jobs are starting to open up near their home place. The vast majority of employees where I work are not living in Waterford and some commute from as far as dublin or cork. I think it well get better in time but it will take a lot of effort to really get it back to what it used to be.

everdead.ie

chopper6 wrote: »

They're one example....there's been dozens that have come and go.

Of course the people who work for them think they're the be all and end all of the irish economy depsite them owing no loyalty whatever to host countries.

Ya many do come and go but many stay longer terms its pretty hit and miss but then sme's come and go as well its just business.

jmayo

nice_guy80 wrote: »

Not arguing any of your points, we know Mayo and Galway have all those.

When there is so little promotion of Roscommon as a tourist destination in comparison to neighbouring counties, or signage to get off the motorway how as a county is it meant to develop its tourism

And I don't think changing the agricultural nature of the county is the responsibility of the locals. I'm sure central government, IDA, Enterprise Ireland could do something if they bothered

A lot of tourism is based on the advertising and promotion budgets

Sorry, but IMHO there is shag all to market in Roscommon bar the Lough Key & Shannon and by extension boating and fishing.
Roscommon does not have any coast line thus seaside based tourism is out.
Neither does it have any mountains so that rules a few things as well.
And before you start big chunks of Mayo and Galway have shag all to offer either, but they do have hot spots that are damm nice and very sellable both at home and overseas.

Rogaine2 wrote: »

Why on God's green earth, would you want to stop in Roscommon?

Because you have been caught by yet another hidden revenue gathering service i.e. Garda speed check. :mad:

antoobrien wrote: »

BMW was the cherry on top for Galway, but we were cooking long before they got involved.

You are either totally unaware aware of the scale of employment that was already in Galway before the BMW scheme, or you're intentionally choosing to ignore it. Companies such as Boston Scientific, Nortel (now Avaya), Covidien (formerly Tyco), Beckman Coulter, Medtronic, APC, Thermo King, Crown Control (since closed) were all in Galway since the mid 90s, most of them far earlier.

Crown, Thermo, Nortel were there long before the 90s.

antoobrien wrote: »

The technology/buisiness park that among others Oracle, IBM and various indigenous businesses like Storm Technologies & Fintrax have offices was built in the 80s.

In Galway closure of a factory, while it's initially bad news for the employees, is more often than not an opportunity for the community as a whole. The closure of the Digital hardware section is a prime example of this as the talent pool was now available for the likes of Boston Scientific & APC (which actually took over the Digital Hardware site). Well over 3,000 jobs replaced the 700 that were lost, not to mention the many startups that resulted.

Feck me you should have been around in 1990 when Digital were going to cheer everyone up about how bloody wonderful it was.
I knew a few lads that would have pumelled you.

antoobrien wrote: »

That has had much more to do with the success of Galway than the BMW initiative.

The best think that the likes of Waterford & Tralee can do is what Loughrea & Claremorris are doing - invest in serious broadband capabilities to make their locations more attractive to multinationals and local companies alike.

Galway has always had a few things going for it.
It was nice enough place to live, it had third level colleges, it wasn't that far (albeit over some shyte roads) from major airport in Shannon.

And it has long been one of the major tourist destinations.

But again as someone said earlier, take the FDI out of the equation and Galway would be in trouble like most of the country.
Granted some of the players in Galway, like the aforementioned Thermo and Avaya, have been there now for generations.

murphaph

chopper6 wrote: »

They're one example....there's been dozens that have come and go.

Of course the people who work for them think they're the be all and end all of the irish economy depsite them owing no loyalty whatever to host countries.

They are still the be all and end all if the Irish economy. We don't have a large indigenous industrial base. It would be nice if Ireland had a German like Mittelstand with almost total loyalty to local workers and the country at large...but it doesn't.