Areas in Ireland doing well

con___manx1

I was in westport Co mayo last weekend and it seems to be doing well .I only seen one closed up shop on the street. thats pretty good compared to other towns.

BuilderPlumber

I think all counties have a rich part doing better than rest of it. Here are the rich places in each county:

Carlow: Carlow town.
Cavan: Cavan town and its hinterland are doing well.
Clare: Ennis and Shannon area do excellently.
Cork: Cork City and the touristy coastal areas like Kinsale.
Donegal: Letterkenny.
Dublin: D4 and the South part of the city clearly.
Galway: The city and all the touristy coastal areas.
Kerry: Killarney.
Kildare: The north of the county especially close to Dublin.
Kilkenny: Kilkenny city.
Laois: Portlaoise and Abbeyleix.
Leitrim: Carrick on Shannon and that area around the south of the county.
Limerick: The city and Adare.
Longford: Can't think of any.
Louth: Dundalk and Drogheda.
Mayo: Westport.
Meath: The south close to Dublin, Navan and Trim.
Monaghan: Monaghan town.
Roscommon: Carrick on Shannon and its hinterland. Boyle.
Sligo: Sligo town.
Tipperary: Clonmel, Cahir and south Tipp tends to do much better than north and mid Tipp.
Offaly: Tullamore and Birr.
Waterford: Dungarvan by a mile.
Westmeath: Mullingar.
Wexford: Wexford town stands out bigtime.
Wicklow: The East coast and all the area around Dublin especially.

I think i got them all here?

Crusades

everdead.ie wrote: »

In Fairness Apple have been in Ireland going on 35 years not really a short term investment.

They almost upped and left completely in 2001. I know people who lost their jobs then.

The only thing that kept them here was tax.

Did you see the main front page headline on today's Financial Times?

Very worrying stuff. What is Noonan's response? He's stood over this situation for 3.5 years now.

Rightwing

Crusades wrote: »

They almost upped and left completely in 2001. I know people who lost their jobs then.

The only thing that kept them here was tax.

Did you see the main front page headline on today's Financial Times?

Very worrying stuff. What is Noonan's response? He's stood over this situation for 3.5 years now.

It's not worrying. We have to play by the rules, simple as. So do Apple.

Godge

Crusades wrote: »

They almost upped and left completely in 2001. I know people who lost their jobs then.

The only thing that kept them here was tax.

Did you see the main front page headline on today's Financial Times?

Very worrying stuff. What is Noonan's response? He's stood over this situation for 3.5 years now.

Not a bit worried by this at all.

Nothing to do with Noonan either, deals agreed under FF governments.

zulutango

Godge wrote: »

You see, "we" have nothing to do with it.

You can't force employers to set up in Cork, Limerick or Galway. You can't force people to move to Cork, Limerick or Galway.

All government can do is incentivise one or the other. By incentivising everywhere for the last 50 years, they incentivised nowhere. Dublin, by virtue of its existing size and headstart benefitted.

A really visionary 1970s development policy would have seen say Cork and Galway earmarked for industrial development at the expense of everywhere else. Instead we had a policy of industrial development in every hamlet. A truly idiotic policy pursued by idiotic politicians and welcomed by idiotic rural campaigners.

It may now be too late for development outside Dublin. Cork has a decent pharmaceutical industry but there isn't a strong enough broadly based industrial presence in any of the other "cities" for long-term development.

I agree with most of what you are saying but I would have thought the natural economic counter balance to Dublin would be Limerick given its geographical location, deep sea port, international airport and highly rated university.

barneystinson

zulutango wrote: »

I agree with most of what you are saying but I would have thought the natural economic counter balance to Dublin would be Limerick given its geographical location, deep sea port, international airport and highly rated university.

Annnnnnnnd would I get a prize for guessing where you hail from...? :rolleyes:

zulutango

barneystinson wrote: »

Annnnnnnnd would I get a prize for guessing where you hail from...? :rolleyes:

I am from Limerick, but I've lived in Cork, Galway and Dublin at various times in my life. I've a good idea of the merits of all places. It shouldn't matter where I'm from. I think I'm right on this. If you disagree with my points, feel free to say why.

barneystinson

zulutango wrote: »

I am from Limerick, but I've lived in Cork, Galway and Dublin at various times in my life. I've a good idea of the merits of all places. It shouldn't matter where I'm from. I think I'm right on this. If you disagree with my points, feel free to say why.

It matters where you're from if you're biased, which you clearly are!

Rightwing

It does matter where you are from. That's why Dublin is doing so well, most politicians are from there and hence parish pump politics, they are putting the jobs there.

BoJack Horseman

Rightwing wrote: »

most politicians are from there and hence parish pump politics, they are putting the jobs there.

Most politicians are not from Dublin.

Dublin in no way gets a lot of what could be considered pork-barrel spending.
Its one of a hand full of counties that actually pays its way.

Rightwing

BoJack Horseman wrote: »

Most politicians are not from Dublin.

Dublin in no way gets a lot of what could be considered pork-barrel spending.
Its one of a hand full of counties that actually pays its way.

I think we'll find every county will 'pay it's way' if its getting the IDA jobs.

Chuckle chuckle

BoJack Horseman

Rightwing wrote: »

I think we'll find every county will 'pay it's way' if its getting the IDA jobs.

Chuckle chuckle

Wicklow is also a county that is a net exchequer contributor.
However it receives megre IDA backed investment compared to the BMW counties.

So.... The majority of politicians are from Dublin?
How is that worked out?

mariaalice

Rightwing wrote: »

I think we'll find every county will 'pay it's way' if its getting the IDA jobs.

Chuckle chuckle

That's at the heart of the matter the ideas that IDA will save somewhere and the idea that 'IDA' via the government direction is the only answered .

I briefly say an item about Foxford woollen mills last night and that started in the 1890s and that's still the standard response...expecting some one from outside to bring jobs to an area the only difference today is its now expected that the government should do it, and in the past it was expected that a wealthy local landlord or patron should do it. That sort of thinking is not much above some of the ideas that the congested district boards had.

Rightwing

mariaalice wrote: »

That's at the heart of the matter the ideas that IDA will save somewhere and the idea that 'IDA' via the government direction is the only answered .

I briefly say an item about Foxford woollen mills last night and that started in the 1890s and that's still the standard response...expecting some one from outside to bring jobs to an area the only difference today is its now expected that the government should do it, and in the past it was expected that a wealthy local landlord or patron should do it. That sort of thinking is not much above some of the ideas that the congested district boards had.

Well if the Govt is favouring MNCs with all sorts of tax breaks, who else is going to provide jobs?

BoJack Horseman

Rightwing wrote: »

Well if the Govt is favouring MNCs with all sorts of tax breaks, who else is going to provide jobs?

The vast bulk of employment is not in MNC.

You seem to forget that competition between nations for FDI is fierce, so the incentives generous.

I'm unsure of the point?
Would you prefer we as a nation disincentivise FDI out of some sort of spite?

Rightwing

BoJack Horseman wrote: »

The vast bulk of employment is not in MNC.

You seem to forget that competition between nations for FDI is fierce, so the incentives generous.

I'm unsure of the point?
Would you prefer we as a nation disincentivise FDI out of some sort of spite?

:rolleyes:

We will have no choice on the matter one way or the other. It's very hard for indigenous industry to establish itself if the Govt's sole focus in on MNCs. Hope this helps.

BoJack Horseman

Rightwing wrote: »

:rolleyes:

We will have no choice on the matter one way or the other. It's very hard for indigenous industry to establish itself if the Govt's sole focus in on MNCs. Hope this helps.

Who says its their sole focus?
Remember, that's your opinion, unless you can confirm empirically?

There are lots of government supports for new startups.
As well as cash supports for hiring someone unemployed (JobsPlus).... and not forgetting Jobs bridge.

The government rank well in being 'pro-business'.

I'm keen to see the data proving otherwise.

zulutango

It would be lunacy to spread industry all over the country.

It's equal lunacy to concentrate it all in Dublin.

Neither of these solutions are sustainable and they limit the growth opportunities for the country.

The optimum solution is to develop a small number (two or three) of large industrial/commercial centres, and these should be located such that the growth generated would service the surrounding regions. This is pretty much what the National Spatial Strategy proposed, but which was promptly ignored for political reasons.

A previous commenter accused me of bias, but I think that one of these centres could and should be Limerick City given that it's got excellent infrastructure, a top university, an international airport and a deep sea port on its doorstep. And it's also quite ideally located in that it connects the west and the south of Ireland. It's the natural counter balance to the Dublin metro region.

The population of Limerick City is currently about 100,000. Why couldn't it be 500,000 in a few daceades? Or more perhaps? Why must we accept the 'all roads lead to Dublin' approach to economic planning which is neither good for Dublin nor the rest of the country? There is no good reason why a country the size of ours and with the natural resources we have and with our high birth rate should have a population perpetually capped at about 4.5 million or thereabouts.

Rightwing

zulutango wrote: »

It would be lunacy to spread industry all over the country.

It's equal lunacy to concentrate it all in Dublin.

Neither of these solutions are sustainable and they limit the growth opportunities for the country.

The optimum solution is to develop a small number (two or three) of large industrial/commercial centres, and these should be located such that the growth generated would service the surrounding regions. This is pretty much what the National Spatial Strategy proposed, but which was promptly ignored for political reasons.

A previous commenter accused me of bias, but I think that one of these centres could and should be Limerick City given that it's got excellent infrastructure, a top university, an international airport and a deep sea port on its doorstep. And it's also quite ideally located in that it connects the west and the south of Ireland. It's the natural counter balance to the Dublin metro region.

The population of Limerick City is currently about 100,000. Why couldn't it be 500,000 in a few daceades? Or more perhaps? Why must we accept the 'all roads lead to Dublin' approach to economic planning which is neither good for Dublin nor the rest of the country? There is no good reason why a country the size of ours and with the natural resources we have and with our high birth rate should have a population perpetually capped at about 4.5 million or thereabouts.

I'm not sure, what's wrong with paypal bringing a 1,000+ jobs to Dundalk for instance?

zulutango

Rightwing wrote: »

I'm not sure, what's wrong with paypal bringing a 1,000+ jobs to Dundalk for instance?

It's great for Dundalk, in the short term, of course. But we have to think a bit bigger if we are truly to develop as a nation. Concentrating our economic growth in a small section of the country isn't a good idea. Continue the policy and we'll end up with a huge gap in wealth between the Dublin metro region and the rest of the country. I can't see how that is a good thing for Ireland. It also will cause huge overheating of the Dublin economy and that will limit its growth. For Ireland to grow and increase its overall wealth, we need to be a bit smarter and use the spatial, natural and labour resources of the country effectively. It's all about proper planning and it's something we're not good at.

My point is that we can have a wealthy Dublin region and the rest of the country can be wealthy too if we organise ourselves effectively and quit the parochial nonsense.

Rightwing

zulutango wrote: »

It's great for Dundalk, in the short term, of course. But we have to think a bit bigger if we are truly to develop as a nation. Concentrating our economic growth in a small section of the country isn't a good idea. Continue the policy and we'll end up with a huge gap in wealth between the Dublin metro region and the rest of the country. I can't see how that is a good thing for Ireland. It also will cause huge overheating of the Dublin economy and that will limit its growth. For Ireland to grow and increase its overall wealth, we need to be a bit smarter and use the spatial, natural and labour resources of the country effectively. It's all about proper planning and it's something we're not good at.

But that's precisely what's led to the problem, the Aherns/Haugheys, boosting Dublin at the expense of almost everywhere else.

zulutango

Rightwing wrote: »

But that's precisely what's led to the problem, the Aherns/Haugheys, boosting Dublin at the expense of almost everywhere else.

We're not in disagreement then, are we?

Rightwing

zulutango wrote: »

We're not in disagreement then, are we?

We're more or less in agreement, but I'd go a little further than you and spread these jobs to areas like Tralee.

zulutango

Rightwing wrote: »

We're more or less in agreement, but I'd go a little further than you and spread these jobs to areas like Tralee.

Well, we can't spread them everywhere because that will limit our potential too. The question is where do you draw the line? And the very thorough (and ignored) National Spational Stategy came up with the answers. I think it did identify Tralee as a growth centre alright. Must dig it out. The main point is that concentrating growth in Dublin is lunacy but spreading it thinly is equal lunacy.

barneystinson

Rightwing wrote: »

We're more or less in agreement, but I'd go a little further than you and spread these jobs to areas like Tralee.

But surely it doesn't matter where you'd spread the jobs to, since your plan is to get in foreign people who'll work for peanuts - surely they'll live anywhere...?

Rightwing

zulutango wrote: »

Well, we can't spread them everywhere because that will limit our potential too. The question is where do you draw the line? And the very thorough (and ignored) National Spational Stategy came up with the answers. I think it did identify Tralee as a growth centre alright. Must dig it out. The main point is that concentrating growth in Dublin is lunacy but spreading it thinly is equal lunacy.

Every county in the country has at least 1 town big enough to be able to absorb IDA jobs. I read somewhere Laois hasn't got 1 IDA job in years. There's a serious failing going on if that's the case. Laois needs a few strong politicians......and we're back to parish pump politics.

Rightwing

barneystinson wrote: »

But surely it doesn't matter where you'd spread the jobs to, since your plan is to get in foreign people who'll work for peanuts - surely they'll live anywhere...?

If they'll live anywhere, then spread the jobs, problem solved.

barneystinson

Rightwing wrote: »

If they'll live anywhere, then spread the jobs, problem solved.

Exactly.

Just one question though - what'll we do with all the unemployed native Irish people?

Ghettos?

Rightwing

barneystinson wrote: »

Exactly.

Just one question though - what'll we do with all the unemployed native Irish people?

Ghettos?

Well was it yourself who mentionned jobbridge? Retraining etc. But they have to be prepared to make an effort too.

zulutango

Rightwing wrote: »

Every county in the country has at least 1 town big enough to be able to absorb IDA jobs. I read somewhere Laois hasn't got 1 IDA job in years. There's a serious failing going on if that's the case. Laois needs a few strong politicians......and we're back to parish pump politics.

The last thing we should be doing is looking at counties though. They are pretty meaningless boundaries when it comes to economic planning. It makes far more sense to look at population centres. I'm not sure of the situation in Laois but if there is a big nearby town that is just outside the border of the county, and that got a lot of investment, then it wouldn't be a true reflection of how well Laois was doing if we only looked at investment on a county by county basis.

Rightwing

zulutango wrote: »

The last thing we should be doing is looking at counties though. They are pretty meaningless boundaries when it comes to economic planning. It makes far more sense to look at population centres. I'm not sure of the situation in Laois but if there is a big nearby town that is just outside the border of the county, and that got a lot of investment, then it wouldn't be a true reflection of how well Laois was doing if we only looked at investment on a county by county basis.

Yes, I'd agree with that. Portlaoise is big enough in itself to get something though. My overall point is: an area like Laois won't grow unless the Govt changes strategy. We can all see how well Galway is doing now. Waterford/Tralee, the same could happen there with a small bit of intelligence.

Citroen2cv

johnnyskeleton wrote: »

Well Lough Key is well advertised. Sadly no matter how much the French government advertises Reims tourism, people will always go to Paris instead. Sorry!

Stopped by in Lough Key Forest Park on the way back from Sligo on a sunday with good weather. It was jam packed, seems to be doing very well. Incidentally, I was returning from Strandhill in Sligo, which was also very busy. Lots of people from all over the world coming for the surfing. Strandhill business's were doing very well.

barneystinson

Rightwing wrote: »

Well was it yourself who mentionned jobbridge? Retraining etc. But they have to be prepared to make an effort too.

Nope, not me.

I find it intriguing that you think a sound economic development policy should involve making swathes of the country unemployed by enticing migrant workers in to fill low paid jobs in a race to the bottom.

So you'd simultaneously be reducing or at best maintaining the State's income (lower pay = less tax & social insurance), while substantially increasing unemployment, emigration, and the number of people dependent on State support.

Do you envisage any big social problems as a result of your plans?

Rightwing

barneystinson wrote: »

Nope, not me.

I find it intriguing that you think a sound economic development policy should involve making swathes of the country unemployed by enticing migrant workers in to fill low paid jobs in a race to the bottom.

So you'd simultaneously be reducing or at best maintaining the State's income (lower pay = less tax & social insurance), while substantially increasing unemployment, emigration, and the number of people dependent on State support.

Do you envisage any big social problems as a result of your plans?

This is happening already. Go into a Lidl shop, a nursing home. A hospital. It's the market, those workers see Ireland as an attractive destination. I welcome it.

Godge

Rightwing wrote: »

I'm not sure, what's wrong with paypal bringing a 1,000+ jobs to Dundalk for instance?

Rightwing wrote: »

We're more or less in agreement, but I'd go a little further than you and spread these jobs to areas like Tralee.

Rightwing wrote: »

Yes, I'd agree with that. Portlaoise is big enough in itself to get something though. My overall point is: an area like Laois won't grow unless the Govt changes strategy. We can all see how well Galway is doing now. Waterford/Tralee, the same could happen there with a small bit of intelligence.

Dundalk, Tralee, Portlaois, where do you want to stop?

You cannot build the necessary infrastructure in every town in the country.

If you want a counterweight to Dublin, it has to be big. Limerick, Cork, Galway, pick one of them. Far enough away from Dublin not to be swallowed up by Dublin and big enough already to be able to quickly acquire mass.

Giving something to every town in the audience was tried before by the IDA and failed as the companies only want to set up in big cities. Unfortunately, our short-sighted policy left us with only one big city, instead of the three or four we could have had.

Rightwing

Godge wrote: »

Dundalk, Tralee, Portlaois, where do you want to stop?

You cannot build the necessary infrastructure in every town in the country.

If you want a counterweight to Dublin, it has to be big. Limerick, Cork, Galway, pick one of them. Far enough away from Dublin not to be swallowed up by Dublin and big enough already to be able to quickly acquire mass.

Giving something to every town in the audience was tried before by the IDA and failed as the companies only want to set up in big cities. Unfortunately, our short-sighted policy left us with only one big city, instead of the three or four we could have had.

One of the few times the IDA tried, Dundalk got over 1000 jobs. This has led to other companies going to Dubdalk. And that in a nutshell is how it works.

Godge

Rightwing wrote: »

One of the few times the IDA tried, Dundalk got over 1000 jobs. This has led to other companies going to Dubdalk. And that in a nutshell is how it works.

Dundalk is effectively a suburb of Dublin now. It is nearer Dublin than many London suburbs.

You can be in Dublin Airport in less than an hour. Most of London is more than an hour from Heathrow.

Rightwing

Godge wrote: »

Dundalk is effectively a suburb of Dublin now. It is nearer Dublin than many London suburbs.

You can be in Dublin Airport in less than an hour. Most of London is more than an hour from Heathrow.

It's about 80kms away. You must surely be thinking of somewhere else.

BuilderPlumber

Rightwing wrote: »

It's about 80kms away. You must surely be thinking of somewhere else.

It may be stretch to say Dundalk is a suburb of Dublin but Navan, Drogheda or Naas are almost that!

zulutango

If it's not a suburb, it's a satellite town. Dundalk is effectively part of the Dublin metro region / economic zone.

Rightwing

Dundalk is on the border FFS, we're a small island. If we were talking Australia, I might be inclined to say it's somebit close. At this rate we'll be saying Limerick is a commuter town. :rolleyes:

Godge

Rightwing wrote: »

Dundalk is on the border FFS, we're a small island. If we were talking Australia, I might be inclined to say it's somebit close. At this rate we'll be saying Limerick is a commuter town. :rolleyes:

What has Dundalk being on the border got to do with anything? That doesn't increase its distance from Dublin or reduce its dependence on Dublin.

In fact, the opposite is the case. The different currencies, the history of the Troubles and other factors mean that unlike other Border towns in countries like France or Spain, the cross-border trade and economic co-operation is negligible.

Your 1930s Fianna Fail idea of industry in every little town was outdated 40 years ago. We should have moved to develop two or three cities and ignored the rest. We didn't and we are left with a lopsided mess.

Sheldons Brain

Godge wrote: »

What has Dundalk being on the border got to do with anything? That doesn't increase its distance from Dublin or reduce its dependence on Dublin.

In fact, the opposite is the case. The different currencies, the history of the Troubles and other factors mean that unlike other Border towns in countries like France or Spain, the cross-border trade and economic co-operation is negligible.

Although a town with a tradition of industrial employment, Dundalk did suffer in the 70s and 80s relative to other towns owing to the troubles. Cross-border cooperation was negligible, but that is improving. It is now a good option for locating business as it is near the airport, has a substantial population within commuting range, has an IT, but also it is in the BMW area and this facilitates government aid that would not be allowed in Dublin.

Rightwing

Godge wrote: »

What has Dundalk being on the border got to do with anything? That doesn't increase its distance from Dublin or reduce its dependence on Dublin.

In fact, the opposite is the case. The different currencies, the history of the Troubles and other factors mean that unlike other Border towns in countries like France or Spain, the cross-border trade and economic co-operation is negligible.

Your 1930s Fianna Fail idea of industry in every little town was outdated 40 years ago. We should have moved to develop two or three cities and ignored the rest. We didn't and we are left with a lopsided mess.

Well the next thing is you'll be telling us Newry etc are suburbs. How far away has a place to be not to be considered a suburb?

zulutango

Rightwing wrote: »

Well the next thing is you'll be telling us Newry etc are suburbs. How far away has a place to be not to be considered a suburb?

That's semantics. There's no doubting or denying that Dundalk is in the Dublin economic sphere, and especially so since the motorway was built.

Rightwing

zulutango wrote: »

That's semantics. There's no doubting or denying that Dundalk is in the Dublin economic sphere, and especially so since the motorway was built.

Well on that definition so is Galway/Limerick etc. After all, Limerick is only 2 hours on the motorway.

flutered

fg and lab cronyism, going a bomb at the moment, it the best place in ireland to be stuck in

Godge

Rightwing wrote: »

Well on that definition so is Galway/Limerick etc. After all, Limerick is only 2 hours on the motorway.

Ireland is dominated by Dublin. Towns like Navan, Naas, Newbridge, Arklow, Drogheda are satellite towns of Dublin now and will never be anything else.

Worldwide the trend is towards increasing urbanisation as industry and services want cities. Ireland cannot buck that trend. Anyone thinking otherwise is in fantasyland.

We may already be too late to create a counterweight to Dublin. The recovery over the next few years may very well be an urban-only recovery. I would hope that Limerick and Cork will be part of that but they need to growing twice as fast as dublin, putting in public transport infrastructure and housing as well as jobs in order to match Dublin. Can't really see it happening and Dublin's dominance will continue.

zulutango

Rightwing wrote: »

Well on that definition so is Galway/Limerick etc. After all, Limerick is only 2 hours on the motorway.

Yes, the motorway network has brought the regional cities 'closer' to Dublin but not as close as it's brought Dundalk.

According to google maps, it's 55 mins to the centre of Dublin from Dundalk, and it's 2 hours 6 mins from Limerick. There's a big difference.

I don't know why I'm even arguing with you now, so you won't get any further replies on this issue from me. Good luck!